I would say there are some nice combo shots in JP, not flow. Most of the “flow” occurs in the upper half of the playfield rather than hitting ramps and orbit with your main flippers and then having the ball come back to your main flippers. I don’t consider an orbit into bumpers that fall down to an upper flipper that gets hit to a ramp that goes down to your lower flipper to be “flow.”

Doesn’t mean it’s not great, just think it is a sniper and combo pin as opposed to a flow pin like Star Wars or GoT or what Led Zeppelin looks to be...

When they were both released, I thought GnR blew it away. But now that I’ve played GnR, I’m thinking LZ is going to be the winner in the end.

Until you brick the shot into one of the posts in that raised assembly and it goes SDTM...

Just curious, what do you hate about it (specifically).

I played it on location (premium) and thought it was decent, but also remember winning a free game and being disappointed that I had to play another game...

Couldn’t put my finger on what I didn’t like about it though.

You should look at Star Wars Comic Art too. Best open and fast pin there is IMO.

I set my back glass to 6% during game play. That way there is virtually no glare, but it still lights up enough to give an effect to the image.

To be fair, JJP pins are still more expensive- which based on this rational would always require more “toys” than Stern to justify their price.

The base components of a modern pin: cabinet, electronics, hardware, screen, lights, company expense overhead, shipping costs, insurance, etc. are all included in every modern pin. The cost to add each toy is minimal. So saying a pin with 3 toys is worth $8k but one with 1 toy isn’t is a bit of an overstatement.

At the end of the day, is it a pin you want to own or play on location? If the answer is yes, they got it right, if the answer is no, they got it wrong.

DELETE.

(Duplicate post)

Just watched the full premium gameplay video. The game looks fantastic. It is a classic Ritchie game, so if you like hitting ramps and orbits, this is the game for you.

I like the electro magic spinner as it plays sort of like a center scoop, but doesn’t kill the flow the way a center scoop does. Also, because it comes and goes, it doesn’t dominate the game play. Lighting on the side walls looks incredible and if JJP did that everyone would flip out. Not sure why that isn’t getting more love?

As far as game play, it is going to come down to the code as the shots look really satisfying, but the code needs to keep it interesting and give you a reason to hit the different shots in a way that doesn’t seem repetitive/boring.

I think this pin is going to surprise a lot of people if the code comes together...

I just played a LZ Pro for over an hour. Here are my thoughts:

First, I really liked the game and the layout. The way you pick your own song before each ball, and then that song plays for the duration of your ball, really makes it like a Jukebox and I found myself feeling like I was playing pinball WHILE listening to Led Zeppelin moreso than it feeling like I was playing a Led Zeppelin pinball game. It was almost relaxing.

The Good:

I really like the fan layout on this one, and think it is one of the best Ritchie has come up with (even though it is similar to others). The far left scoop is perfectly placed to give some variety and a brief ball hold without killing the flow of the game. The ramps and orbits are great, and the ramps all require solid shots to get completely up the ramp (especially the center and right ramps) which I like. Great smooth action off all three ramps too (although I can confirm there is no way in hell you are hitting the third flipper shot all the way up the center ramp--zero percent chance).

It has the feel of a Ritchie game and is almost like an easier Star Wars because it is a similar layout, but the entrances to the ramps are set farther back and the stand up targets are both farther back and angled away from the flippers so you don't get straight reject SDTM shots like you do in Star Wars.

As far as code, I like that you can select what you want to accomplish to beat each song (20 bumpers, 5 orbits, 10 ramps, etc.) in tour mode. However, it doesn't really seem to have much of a point to the game (as of this version of the code) other than to hit shots and enjoy the music--which is fine, but you better really like both in order to want to keep playing the game for long periods.

Also, I really like the songs they chose, although I wish it had a few more, and a couple in particular...

The Bad:

That third flipper shot that ends curving up a slot with a standup target at the end is terrible. First, it is unrewarding and would never be something you would try to hit unless it was flashing. It really feels like a bridge to nowhere type shot. Second, well struck shots come flying back out of that slot and ricochet off the right side causing the ball to move violently side to side, often ending in an outlane drain. Both of the issues would be completely eliminated in the Premium/LE models, but no way to fix it in the Pro.

The plunge shot is lame. It is not as bad as GNR, and not as dangerous as Star Wars, but it is sort of a weak way to enter the playfield and isn't fun. Stong plunge, weak plunge, short plunge, button plunge-- all end up about the same.

Conclusion:

I really like the flow and style of this game, but I really like Steve Ritchie's style of pinball. Feels like a modern pin, but without a bunch of "stuff" in the way (as opposed to the more typical style of the pins being produced these days). If that sounds good to you, and you like solid long shots up ramps and into orbits, this is a great pin. If you prefer the packed playfield/adventure style progression coded pins like Jurrasic Park and Avengers Infinity Quest, or if you like hitting the same thing over again like Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars or the more modern versions like Elvira HOH, than this is NOT the pin for you.

If you have any specific questions I didn't cover above, send a reply post and I'll respond as best I can. I am also going to give a direct comparison to GNR in that thread if you want to know how I think the two compare as I've now played them both.

As I sit here from memory, I could swear I got to pick the song I wanted before EVERY ball, not just the first ball, but I may be wrong.

You are definitely correct about the tour modes, and that it what I was referring to (edited my original post to make it more clear). Thx!

If you don’t like Star Wars, you won’t like LZ. They are very similar, although LZ is easier so if that was your only hang up on Star Wars, then maybe. That being said, if you couldn’t like Star Wars after owning it, this one is unlikely to be any different for you.

Also, Elwin has designed 3 pins— all within the last few years. Hard to compare those values to a designer that goes back 30+ years.

Played a pro again today. Really love the way it shoots. Ramps and orbits are typical SR smooth, but that upper flipper is just a death wish. I think the premium/LE is the way to go to give you that additional ramp so it is a rewarding shot instead of the pro that just dead-ends into a stand up target and then comes rocketing out side-to-side.

I like the Pro, but that would frustrate me if I had to deal with it all the time.