Quoted from sataneatscheese:
Congrats to the LZ fans for getting a pin!
I hope you guys love it! This is a hard pass for me, but I'll be supporting the pin by buying what someone sells to make room.
Enjoy your fun!
Positives: Steve Ritchie! New Lighting!
Negatives: Art...art...art... art...
I am buying the game but this made me smile lol
Quoted from Yoko2una:
Problem with all those high res photos from the last page is that you can zoom in on them. First pic from the Prem. Second from the Pro. Minor stuff, but still crazy that they can't 100% fix the issues... and these are the PF's chosen for marketing.
To be fair neither has JJP
Quoted from Rarehero:
Album covers don't always make good pin art...but it's also the absolute stark contrast in styles between the playfield & cab. Totally different style, totally different logo. As an art package, they just flat out don't match.
He said the Pro looked like the Beatles
Quoted from Fytr:
Nobody can complain when they get their games, it's *exactly* like it was shown on the brochure...
LOL no one has had the right to bitch for years as all games Stern and JJP seem to have issues now. Just look how long it took for the first pic's of chipping and pooling on G&R
The irony is no one is even talking about G&R in the JJP threads any more games ordered wait 6 months lol
Quoted from darkryder:
Dude...STFU. I own a mix of Stern and JJP games and the distributor agreed to switch my deposit from Zep LE to GNR LE. I'm as big of a Zeppelin fan as any, the game could have been so much more. I wouldn't mind owning one, but for $10K+ after taxes and shipping, I'm giving my money to JJP on this one. FWIW, Metallica LE, Maiden LE, Aerosmith LE and AC/DC Luci will never leave my collection. Enjoy your Zeppelin, I'm sure it will be a fun game.
Dude STFU owning a lot of game does not give you the right to act the ass
Quoted from rai:
I’m mildly amused that people will buy a pin sight unseen just because of the theme. Also sell out LEs without regard to what you are getting for the extra $1800. I’m not complaining more just seems like this happens a lot and yet Stern gets away with it for a good theme. I mean if xyz is a theme some people will throw down $9K no matter what.
I’ve seen Stern get creative with pricing up games like BM66 and Elvira can’t believe they didn’t make 68 SLE of LZ for $15K.
LOL Stern sells there runs of 500 for $2,500 less than JJP
Quoted from spinal:
Since Stern seems to have forgotten how to do playfield art or simply just didn’t care for LZ, perhaps an amateur like myself, with no background in art, could provide a bit of insight. Then the “pinball art professionals” who spend full-time on this topic (even a career), and have obviously been trusted with skinning multi-million dollar projects for this growing industry, could learn a few things.
So this morning I was playing my MM (1997) and took a few pics as an example of what pinball art looks like - what those who know anything about this hobby appreciate. At the very least I want to make the point that people used to care - they simply used to give a fck an put effort into playfield art. Now I don’t even care enough to look up the name of the human in charge of art on LZ, but I’ll leave it to you all to judge how much thought and effort he put into his work compared to what was common in 1997 and is even common these days.
So regarding playfield art, the first thing is that the placement, shape and purpose of each insert should be tied into the design of the game from day one.
Next the art around each of those carefully considered inserts ties directly into the surrounding art and even plays a large part in conveying rules and gameplay direction to the player.
Here are the wizard inserts that are designated by stars:
Notice how tied into the art they are. Also here is a shot of the other star for wizard (example of conveying rules and telling rhe player what is connected to what)
Notice the surorunding stars, the scroll for extra ball and troll helmet.
You can't compare the days of non-lincence games to lincenced games
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
I enjoy Stern games, currently own two of them including a Ghostbusters premium and considering purchasing AIQ. Have purchased several other Stern's as well over the years. If you don't want to read any criticism head over to the owners thread!
The same goes for what people say back to you it sure as hell did not require a moderation
Quoted from John1210:
I can't say I agree 100% on the flow... it does flow dont get me wrong but it was brick city on the posts around that spinner. Just an observation unless I need my eyes checked. Will be interesting to flip.
Why do you think bash toys are right up the center they are there for you to drain
Quoted from cooked71:
Ummmm, guys.......theres a pandemic remember? Has been for almost 12 months. Pretty sure that's the main cause of the backlog and it's on the production side - not because Stern are doing anything out of the ordinary.
The backlog is to fold one it people are stuck in the homes and want a new game and second is an increased difficulty in manufacturing
G&R is like the pretty girl that is all "took out what would have been censored " pretty only takes you so far
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Did you just say Dialed In has the worst art and toys? That's a good one. DI also has some of the best gameplay in pinball on top of being a loaded pin with great artwork by John Youssi. That's my "fact".
I've had zero issues with gameplay on any JJP pins. Personally I want to play and own games that are loaded up and actually have things that interact with the ball. I'm not paying $6k - $9k+ for orbits and ramps, there needs to be more. Maybe Stern should try focusing on making their games worth those price tags and less on cutting costs and $1k toppers?
No one here is saying Sterns suck or are not fun. Sterns are great, they are fun but the issue many people have is that they don't find them to be worth the price tag. For example LZ premium and LE have two stand-up ball save targets to "activate" a virtual kick back versus a real one. Thats the crap period are tired of with these crazy prices. Its a bit sad to then see people defend those cost cutting decisions by saying the game will play faster...Stern must love that.
Side note. What I find ironic is you bash JJP constantly about their games being too loaded and "slow" and then I saw your post about wanting an Alien. Lol.
LOL He said DI has the best gameplay or in Hazoff words DI is the most fun to play of all JJP games
You can't figure it out Kermit24 the reason ball three gives you three band members is people have a hard time starting a song and hear the music
Quoted from Rarehero:
Iron Man was about $4k. People were more forgiving at a price like that. Plus Lyman on code. Plus a non-divisive theme that everyone loves & super exciting high energy addicting gameplay.
Different time, different price, different context.
LZ will sell to Zep fans & Steve Ritchie hardcores. Not sure it has legs outside of that zone.
The vaults were not 4k
Quoted from romulusx:
Look what happens with some of the grail properties that come out that don’t do justice to them?Run a poll about what company you would prefer to build a Back to the Future pin.I think JJP is going to blow up with the success of GnR & TS enough so as to expand their production capabilities.
Quoted from Hazoff:
Man the BOM thing is so important to u guys. I mean I understand within reason but I gladly payed full pinball price for BKSOR and never once thought anything other than this is a great pin. I don't want keep saying it but i will, I pay for the fun factor not for the toy/light factor. It doesn't have to look like its worth the money I'm spending but it has to fulfill my desire to play and be fun. I would feel more foolish spending a lot on a game that's loaded yet I just don't find it entertaining to shoot rather than somewhat baron yet its a blast.
Toys were the soul of shallow games like Funhouse or creature from the black lagoon. Rulls became the soul of games like CV or TZ although the toys were cool it was not what made the games. JJP fans like their lights and bling lol but that is not what makes or breaks a modern game
Yet hear you are in the LZ thread and this is the only post in G&R is hear thread in the last week LOL "Not sure if this is a thread that keeps track of bugs for GNR LE but here are a couple to add to the list...
Patience Multiball... hit the button to collect a 750000 jackpot and the game reset...
During certain multiballs some shots don't have sounds...I'm thinking this is just programming that has to catch up but it sometimes makes me wonder if my switches are working properly... (yes i have checked my switches)
I have experienced other bugs but will be more diligent in recording."
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
This is not a club thread, in the LZ club thread there is no bashing of the game like you described above. Criticism in non club threads is normal.
There are people in this thread that have randomly brought up something negative about JJP and or their games yet are now upset when people reply with a critical response to such a post...wow.
Let's not forget why club threads were originally created. Back in 2011 - 2013 anytime a WOZ thread was created it would result in a JJP vs Stern battle. The mods had to create a club thread for WOZ where owners of the game could actually discuss it without being attacked.
Just remember don't bitch the next time I drop into a JJP thread LOL
I just posted this on the G&R is hear thread but its all good "romulusx and PanzerFreak have been bashing LZ on the Stern LZ hype thread they say it's not a club thread so it's all good. So G&R is a blinged out piece of shit remember folks this is not a club thread so it's all good"
Quoted from Trogdor:
Did you spell it right there? I’ll go check and roast ya!
These are just opinions. If it is called “LZ hype thread”, it seems to open the debate for level of hype it deserves. If it was “LZ owners only thread”, then their comments would be out of place.
Well, I can’t wait for my premium! All most people are going to care is that it says Led Zeppelin and it plays Led Zeppelin! If you don’t like Led Zeppelin, I would strongly recommend something else- it’s that simple. Stern got it right, light shows and toys are for bands that you need to distract people from the now unwatchable lead singer.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:
I am new to pinball and love it and own 3 Sterns BKSOR, ST, and Stern Dracula out of 8 I own since August of 2019 and have a deposit for EHOH so not a JJP fan boy or Stern hater.
But really is what you like and I guess people like me just are venting and disappointed that LZ is nothing special and seems a step down from pins like AC/DC and Iron Maiden. We wanted more and for the cost deserved more for a pin of one of the greatest rock bands ever.
I find it funny you commpair LZ to AC/DC as that game is an ald school fan layout lacking toys. MET and IM are the two best music pins and they sure as hell do not tell the story of the band people will in the end like with AC/DC show the game love
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
There are a ton of pinball players that prefer to play for mode progression and reaching wizard modes versus for score alone. If someone told me they scored 2 billion points in Star Wars I would think "That's great" but I would be more impressed if they reached and beat Defeat the Emperor. Same goes for getting 100 million in Lord of the Rings versus reaching Valinor...reaching Valinor is more impressive.
A majority of modern Sterns seem to focus more on multipliers and score based modes versus modes that are layered with excellent mode choreography (animations, sounds, lighting, etc all timed to events from the theme). Why? Well I have a theory on that and it's that focusing on scores / multipliers is cheaper and easier to code versus creating those multi layered modes I described. The tournament scene that Stern is heavily invested in doesn't seem to care much for mode choreography but rather score alone. Well, a lot of home buyers that are dropping $6k - $9k+ on games would prefer to see high quality layered modes versus generic points based modes.
Think of the story based modes and mulitballs in Lord of the Rings and then compare them to modes in most modern Stern's that just flash a single image / animation with a bunch of floating scores, it's night and day. Also, every Stern is loaded with copy and paste filler points modes called "super modes". Super ramps, super pops, super orbits...yeah they are super boring.
Many people look at pinball as more than the last 20 years and 20th century games even TZ modes were just not as important as they are in twenty first century games
Quoted from Darscot:
I don't get why anyone cares about score or multipliers,
Quoted from LOTR_breath:
One observation on code. Bonus needs to be increased by a factor of ten! I had a decent ball time with a bonus of 180K. It would've felt more in line with how the game scores if that was 1.8M.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:
I'm hoping too for higher bonus and just more points scored overall. I used to think it was dumb to score 500,000 000, but now if you only get 20 or 30 mill on a game it feels like a let down. Hoping shot values increase dramatically throughout
This goes to show why no matter what Stern does there will be thouse that are unhappy
Quoted from snaroff:
My takeaway: this game is on the easy side. This isn't necessarily bad, but for home usage, I tend to get bored of easy games. I only played one game and couldn't comment on the rules or LCD content.
You say it is an easy game but say you don't know the rules lol
Quoted from romulusx:
Dude that is so lame your not even the least bit creative and your stock photos have become stale.I’m guessing in the real world you wouldn’t say half of the shit you do here?
LOL I would not hesitate to tell you to [email protected]#k off in person and few others on pinside deserve the lack of respect you do boy
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