LZ pin hype - deflated and on life support

LZ teaser videos - boring and uninspired

LZ pin artwork - horrible, lazy, a real shame

LZ pin color pallet - the worst

LZ pin theme integration - very bad

LZ pin rules - unsure if additive nature of music is more fun or annoying.

LZ pin fun - none, just listen to LZ on the radio

LZ pin rank - well below average

Changes for Stern - final SRitchie design

Imagine a band, so talented - a tone-deaf designer can use their catalog to make a pinball machine. Sure the music is great, but what happened to the pinball machine?

I read the fox article and stern press release and one thing struck me as odd. Does this pic cause you to think anything?

313A5436-8C93-4B1E-BFC8-05677043CB60 (resized).jpeg

So the point is to travel back 45 years and attend some legendary concerts and which were scarcely captured by videos? Really? Half the world population wasn’t even born when the concerts took place. In the remaining population, maybe .00001% of them actually saw LZ in concert. Now I’m not saying it won’t be fun to play, only the primary script was flawed from the beginning.

Funny to read, does your imagination run wild, thinking about what a high energy rock and roll concert experience from 45 years ago was like?

I don’t care. That experience is no longer relevant. Time to put on headphones and listen to my daily dose of Zeppelin.

Listened to Tim discuss LZ rules and his direction on Pinball Profile podcast ... bravo. My takeaway was the core code is in place, as are most modes and scoring etc. He didn’t say what level the software was but based on his feedback, I’d guess 75% of the way to 1.0 code. However some of what he discussed as being fun and planned rules have yet to make it into the code, nor has it been created. He mentioned considering some other ideas and scoring adjustments that likewise has not yet been created. One final promise he made was to incorporate co-op/teamup play styles near the end of his effort.

In my head, this boils down to -> waiting six months for the true and full nature of code to evolve and give LZ pinball a try then. Until then, consider it an expensive box of blinking lights with AWESOME music. The problem with that approach is the game is being made now. Of course Tim wants you to buy and play it now and have fun watching the software evolve. But as an end user, I want it mostly done when offered for sale and prior to shipping game one. No way I’d buy this game without playing one and UNTIL the code is settled. If that means June, then I’ll find out then and that’s the first problem I have with this offering.

In the meantime I’ll listen to LZ music and look at at pics of cabinets, translites and playfield art while softly sobbing, knowing a four-year old could have managed the Client/designed three better packages. In the future when Stern vaults this title, maybe we’ll see a decent art package. I can’t get past, nor will I accept any of the announced models. So that’s my second complaint.

Settling for 10 songs from a classic band with so many hit songs, is a slap in the face of every pinball poppin LZ fan. The existing list should add another 6-10 songs. It’s only money, so buy the licenses and have the Stern Team integrate. Then, at least the music content would feel like we were getting our money’s worth. That is my final issue.

Three strikes and this pin is out for me. I’m not even considering game play yet because until June 2021, how would I know enough to comment?

I have listened three times now. If you took a bathroom break between minute 32 and 35 you’d have missed my points. I think this covers all

32:06 - 32:11 - code # is ?

32:12 - 32:16 - code is missing a few things that are planned.

32:17 - 32.33 - he needs to get the game done first, and then add co-op.

33:34 - 34:50 - he is still playing around with rules on HOW TO qualify the final mode.

33:51 - 34:01 - he is getting feedback and ideas from Stern’s Keith & Raymond and from beta testers.

34:21 - 34:33 - we’ll dial it in and we need more releases before we get to 1.0 code.

I think he says that two of the ten songs are not fully done or are not in, but I can’t locate that.

Reading between the lines and going unsaid - there is much to be done. Depending on how much support Tim gets from Stern for a title that has been released, is yet to be seen. So if it ends up being one guy supporting him, it could take six months in my estimation. He is not going to say I’ve got a shitload of work, the game has technical issues, a bug is causing it to crash, I don’t know how to create a certain effect, assets are missing etc. No, the code has a long ways to go, period. What am I missing?

We’ll be able to see for ourselves with the stream this Friday. Of course, am more pessimistic about it than you, my friend.

Edit - my understanding is that when the rules for qualifying and playing a final wizard mode are in flux, the entire structure of the game is also in flux and it is susceptible to dramatic changes.

That looks really nice and I like your style. I might have to get one instead of a LZ pin. But if you took your idea and blew it up in scale, wouldn’t it be better to have a zeppelin flying over your house that advertised rotating album covers, as the game topper? For 2.8 x Stern’s topper price, you’d have this one to proudly fly over your house.
7FE02DEE-3397-4F6C-AE83-FC7DF3D154F8 (resized).jpeg

Wonder if jarjar ever plays Shadow with the stock translite? Alex Baldwin stares at you smugly, judging you....I couldn’t take it! Having owned 4 Shadows over the years, each one had an alternate translite. What something looks like (including pinball machines) is important to me. I would think there is some level of ugliness or lack of effort that would repulse even the staunchest tournament player. Led Zeppelin artwork is over the line for many, many, many people.

Haven’t seen worse artwork on a pin since No Good Gofers. Could LZ art package get worse? Well if you said no, you are going to be surprised. I give you the Stern topper sitting atop their pinball machine. The topper shows a giant zeppelin in a style and colors of a tropical drink. The translite has a classic zeppelin line in black and white line art. Who thought it would be great idea to show 2 zeppelins stacked atop each other? The person designing the topper either had no idea what the translite would look like or knew but he didn’t care.

We know the person doing the cabinet artwork didn’t care as he put a zeppelin on both cabinet sides, both head sides and the cabinet front, for a total of 5 zeppelins. The playfield guy didn’t care either, but he cared less, as he only gave us 3 zeppelins between the center playfield and 2 apron cards. I kind of feel bad for the designer of the translite now as he was only able to add 1 zeppelin. There is a molded zeppelin flying over the playfield. As mentioned the topper designer added 1 zeppelin. So my constructive design critique is, don’t put 11 fucking zeppelins on a single pinball machine. Also if you have 10 zeppelins that look one way, don’t add another in a style that doesn’t match.

F6371357-112B-4AD2-BBDF-E332A22F94DC.jpegB938E338-4802-4235-82A2-24E5B2F29263.jpegB938E338-4802-4235-82A2-24E5B2F29263.jpeg

57A6C29A-B596-4FFC-9530-31F785FB0C68.jpeg

Topper pic just came out. That was a new straw for me.

Not a hater, just don’t like what I see. I own many Sterns and music themed pins. LZ is one of my favorite groups which I have listened to daily for many years. Isn’t this game supposed to be for me?

I won’t be buying LZ pin, but I have no doubt the game is selling great and hope it does well. I want one of my neighbors to buy one so I can play it. All that doesn’t change the fact that the art packages are lazy and bad.

I prefer to exercise my rights to not sign up as a Stern Insider. However, because of DCMA, I won’t be able to view the LZ stream from a public host. So Stern chose to host the launch video on their own network as a solution. That requires signing up, and sounds like a reasonable request. Now it comes down who will blink first.

All your suggestions are good and would improve the game. Thanks for the overview of the stream too. Your suggestion they make and release a better video is a really good one. Consider it a do-over and get things right.

Thanks for the link. I tried to use it to sign up for a free account but it never allowed me submit the form. So that didn’t work and just as I was ready to give up, I found link to page with LZ video and found I could watch it. Warning - after introductions are made sound is totally off. Wonder if paid membership includes sound? Lots of blinking lights. Here you go to https://sternpinball.com/account/

Don’t forget to count the zeppelins on lcd screen. That will add another 3 or so and game should meet your quota. THERE ARE NOW MORE ZEPPELINS THAN SONGS !!! Arregggghhh.

You’re right. I later discovered that after I submitted the form the first time and it seemed to lock, it sent me a signed up email with time stamp same. I was too stupid to look. So a free account truly works. ::thumbs up:

After you skip in about 45 min you get the sound. It has a lot of lights going on but the music still was all garbled. So when the new video is shot and distributed as promised by JD (omg Jack Danger has his own initial thingy going) I have a concern.

During any song, you SHOULD NOT be interrupted by a bunch of distracting calls outs and other bs. This is a music pin so let us hear the music uninterrupted, please. What I heard that bothered me in the release video was during a song I kept hearing jackpot and super jackpot and all kinds of annoying as hell stuff. We will finally hear what the game has and the sounds when the new video emerges. Until then we shall wait, and see.

edit - it should be as simple as changing the priorities of callouts to a lower level than the priority level for songs. But what do I know?

If the LZ artist had been hired for GnFnR ....

SE - large GNR logo with flippers would be plastered on 13 different surfaces.

LE - large GNR cross would be plastered on 13 different surfaces.

CE - large Slash’s hat would be plastered on 13 different surfaces.

Design is now done.

Nobody can count that high on the skulls. But you know what they say ... you can never have too many skulls. Funny I never heard anybody say I need more zeppelins.

sorry can’t find any.

Get the LZ premium plus topper. You are going to love it.

When do you think we will see a quality video of gameplay with sound?

And for the love of it, leave the zeppelin off. Don’t spell out Led Zeppelin either.

That’s a great idea !!

The setting applies to all the time, right? What is being requested is another attenuation setting that applies during songs. THEN you can hear callouts with base setting during part of your game and have it quiet with a new setting during songs.

Reading comprehension problems late at night? I don’t want to hear callouts during music either, that’s not what I said. I don’t want callouts during songs, but when a song is NOT active, it is welcome to hear sound and callouts. Now you tell me how the existing system controls that? It doesn’t and you would need another attenuation dial added.

Thanks for the info, i never heard that before. That makes sense. I thought you had to collect the band members before the group could start a song. In Pinball Profile Teolis made a big point about how you needed all the members of the band to have LZ be legit and Tim was chiming in. Guess when a good video comes out I can see for myself.

The year was 1974, and it was my 6th grade dance. Until then I hadn’t listened to much music on my own effort. But that was all about to change, as my hormones raged and I was very interested in the ladies. The dj (a parent who had been volunteered) played a lot of pop and soft rock music that night. I had my eye on a little philly named Jackie. Near 11 pm, things were coming to a crescendo and the lights went down. The mirror ball was strobing and light jumped all over the room and music began slowly and quickly grew. Well, the song they played that night was fantastic and it got me together with Jackie, so it was kinda memorable.

A little into the song, I asked a buddy what the song was. He said, it was Stairway. I asked him to repeat. He said it was Stairway to Heaven and his face told me he liked it. He said his brother and sister and their friends and he, himself listened to it regularly and Everybody Loved It! So what’s so special about the song I asked? He told me it was the greatest rock and roll anthem ever made. So I see Jackie and head that way. I asked her if she liked this song as much as I did. She asks me, what the song was. I looked at her in disbelief and said, It’s Stairway to Heaven. She still seemed perplexed and I told her Stairway was the greatest rock and roll song ever made IMO. She said cool, and it sounds great. And then I asked her make out under the stairs and she said yes.

Do I wish Stairway was in the song lineup along with many other great songs that were left off? yeah. Led Zeppelin has another dozen songs that should have been there. I’d have been happy with the entire Song Remains the Same album, which was their US concert at MSG in 1973.

I won’t impune Jackie’s good name in public but a few follow up details. I remember overhearing kids spreading rumors about it almost live, as I was leading her to the make out spot. I don’t remember seeing her again at school and shortly thereafter she transferred. it seems Trouble kept finding Jackie, wherever she went. I think she was at my school a total of four months before she followed the river to a new adventure.

So where’s the hype? This thread of is no longer on fire!

Next Stern {Elwin} Godzilla or BTTF, {Eddy} Jaws or {Ritchie} My Little Pony?

dupe

For Toy Story to be a home run at JJP, it better have lots of toys. Interactive, reactive, protracted toys that are fun to shoot and which come to life as they talk to each other in the 4th dimension (break the 4th wall). Toys should fill up the playfield. Buzz, Woody, Mr Potato Head and the entire gang saying funny stuff and having adventures. Don’t go minimal with the playfield design either Pat. Maybe 5 interactive toys on the standard edition, 7 toys on the LE and Tom Hanks phone number for CE buyers. People want to see something and get something, after spending $7k-$12.5k on a Toy.

Yeah that would be great. Good idea.

The results are in and the best band of 70’s was ... Zeppelin. Looking at the first paragraph, it is obvious that Stairway was their defining song and the one that changed rock and roll. So if someone were to make a Zeppelin themed pinball machine, they wouldn’t be stupid enough to leave the rock anthem for the ages off the lineup, right? It really doesn’t matter if the song has the required uptempo, it should have been the first song that was secured. The meme that comes to mind is -Stern, you had one job!

Have heard rumors that wizard mode might use it as a hidden surprise. Bi+ches please, Stairway is not in the game and it won’t be given to buyers as a surprise gift. Remember Stern’s surprises end up with Owners shelling out more dough.

A92CAB71-4738-40E1-942E-2CBB1D955BB9.jpeg

Based entirely on the tempo, I agree it would be a drag to listen to. But in a pinball machine as a wizard mode, it would have been a wonderful reward for getting so far in the game and I think hearing it then would have made it ideal. If Stern secured the license to use, it would be listed on the flyer, believe me. The flyer distinctly highlights all the songs the game has, they would not leave Stairway off if it was included. I understand your belief Stairway might not have worked, but I’ll ask you a hypothetical question to gauge your opinion.

Let’s say Stairway had been licensed and was listed on the flyer as optional. It was indeed included in the code, but it was locked behind a firewall. Then you find out Stern will sell you a dongle for $200 to unlock the song. Since you and your friend aren’t interested, you decide to pass and play the game for an eternity without it. Other Owners who are interested, decide to spend the money. So if there was no value to you you didn’t lose anything. Those who wanted it and were willing to pay, got it. So everybody is happy, right? Ok here is the question -> what percentage of LZ game Owners would buy the song? You make it seem as it would be close to zero. I hope it is close to 100% but know it won’t. For interest sake, let’s presume 45% buy the mod. That would indicate people feel strongly enough that it should be in the game that they were willing to spend $200 over whatever they did pay. I don’t know how a poll would turn out, but don’t think it would accurately measure this case. I do know I would vote to put the song in.

As an aside, it is no coincidence Stern is on a tear against all types of copyright infringement and they are openly trying to shut down any modifications to the software, forcing everyone to abandon plans to modify code or songs. So you can’t buy Stairway through an official Stern release, and you are dissuaded from doing it on your own game. No soup for you! I don’t think this is a conspiracy because I do believe Stern has been festering for years over copyright, as people used pinbrowser to swap songs. Some recent hobbyist projects have added movie clips and sounds to code and Stern is pissed. They have drawn a line in the sand. So knowing there is no legit way to get Stairway added, and believing that many would opt for the song even at more money, maybe you can understand why this was important to me and others and why this was a failure to leave out imo.

Case 1
Current code and no hope of Stairway.

Case 2
Stern probably could have gotten the license more cheaply had they bought it only for the wizard mode. Arguing Stairway would only be played 1-2% of the overall games played.

Case 3
Another way they could have gone was to add Stairway to the jukebox. There could even have been an adjustment to disable Stairway from jukebox. Also Stern would not need to code the wizard mode around it, so it is super simple.

I think anything is better than what Stern decided on with Case 1.

I don’t want that either. I was using paywall only as an example because if Owners were asked if they wanted Stairway added for free, 95% would say yes and you wouldn’t have learned anything of it. But if asked to pay something out of pocket and spend more than chump change, they probably Really wanted the song in. And that was my intended point, many people would have liked to have had the song included for Real. I’d have suggested Stern give it to everyone for free.

Going forward, if Stern were to offer something behind a paywall, but revealed this plan before releasing the game, I’d be fine with it. Pass or not pass, but I’d know the rules going in, not some backdoor system monkeying. Imagine if BEFORE they released Zeppelin, Stern had said here is your list of 10 songs that comes with all game models. Should you wish to add the bonus pack of 100 additional songs with video that plays during attract mode and in jukebox, it will costs $500 to procure the dongle. That would have been fricking amaze balls!!! and I would have taken all the dongle they were willing to sell me. I’d have ordered a LZ on day 1 and paid for the 100 song upgrade. Imagine listening/watching 24/7 of Led Zeppelin music on the jukebox. All LZ / All the Time.

This example is too good to be true, so maybe Stern would have offered a 4 songs (including Stairway) bonus pack for $200. That deal would not be enough to push me into buying the game and I’d have no need for this offer. But if I did hypothetically own the game, I would hypothetically buy the 4 song bonus pack just to get my blasted Stairway .

But all this talk about owning the game is one thing. I’ll still enjoy playing LZ where ever I can find one and am glad Stern made it. Note to Stern Design Team - call me before you do Black Sabbath and right after you talk to Ozzy.

Thread is back on fire baby.

Depends on the version used, Dazed and Confused live at MSG in 1973 was 30 minutes long. The first half was slow and building (just like Stairway) while the back half, takes off and would make for a quick 15 minute climax. That would be great.

That sounds great. Now we just gotta get hired at Stern to make it happen the way we want.
But seriously let’s say a fan was talented enough to create that wizard mode and make it work. He pulled together all the assets. Rearranged things and tied into stern code and scoring and it worked beautifully. He couldn’t sell it to anyone without getting a C&D letter. He probably couldn’t give it away as charity either. So the only hope is to motivate Stern to do it. Very sad the mod community is getting hammered on.

So Tim says it will be special.

and it’s not written yet.

Well we might as well ask him to make it super duper special to ensure its success. I got the impression from streams that it is not figured out yet and that would put them at Step 1. Step 2 is coding. Step 3 is play testing. Steps 4-7 are finalize rules, assets, acceptance test and release. At least it will be great when they are finished.

See a number of posts from people who are enjoying the way this pin shoots. My question is which shots or combos do you feel are satisfying?

Can’t show what’s not there. Wizard mode is not yet designed nor coded per Tim’s interview three weeks ago. Look for it in future release notes and give it a go then. Pretty sure Stern will be crowing about it once completed.