I'm the fanboy??? lol

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For what its worth many times when facebook or youtube has muted one of my streams i've fought it claiming fair use. So far i've won every time. With that said its a royal pain in the ass to do it, especially on facebook. I don't envy the position you're in with this.

The cabinet looks like the bathroom wall of the old Rock Fantasy in NY (not saying that's a bad thing).

I still can’t believe somewhere out there is a pinhead who owns that Twin Win that spent 10 years in that bathroom 2 feet from the toilet.

Led Zeppelin is known for being one of the biggest blockers online, I think the Eagles are the only band worse. Why Stern/Deadflip thought they would get away with it on any third party platform is laughable. There is no way Facebook or YouTube would let this fly. That they even tried it just shows how completely uninformed and ill prepared they were. If your interested check out Rick Beato on Youtube he has great content and is super informed, he has even testified before the senate on the subject.

Funny bit with all this pissing and moaning about "art" is the best playing jersey jack game has the worst art.... ( Dialed In)

Need that flow man, who cares about toys. It's all about speed, those toys just slow the game down! Wait a second, what the hell do I get then for $6k - $9k+? Orbits, ramps, and a rising spinner? Oops. Well damn no wonder nothing will ever break down, there's barely anything to break down lol.

It would suck if we lose things like this young girl on YouTube. I really enjoy seeing talented youth like her love rock and roll:

For an alleged "total noob" this is the possibly the best summary of LZ's gameplay I've read. Sometimes Pinside really benefits from a fresh perspective

Your views Greaseman largely accord with mine after watching the stream. Which is why I ordered a LZ Premium (love the art btw) first thing Monday morning and am also lucky enough to have a GNR LE (love the art even more) on order too.

Once they get to Australia sometime after April I'll be able to provide the ultimate side by side comparison

I’m all for the artists getting paid. This is all a big joke that these big companies haven’t worked something out.

There needs to be a process for companies like stern to be able to have official streams of the the IP they have rights to and have them not get shut down. Seems silly if they have the license and the license holders approve, that they still can’t stream it.

Or they simply aren't paying for the rights...

Topics like how you can market, in what formats, etc are all part of license agreements. Unfortunately the concept of having rights to do something in one format doesn't automatically equate to being able to use it in other forms. For instance, it is very common to say you could use a song in a game, but maybe not the song in an Ad for that game... without paying more for that. Or maybe you could use it in radio, but not TV, etc. It all depends on how controlling they want to be.

It can get very messy when you have content owners that want to be very strictly defined in what you can and can not do with the license agreement they want to grant. It's just a messy underbelly that most people aren't exposed to.. and now that they are getting more agressive in formats our hobby has grown accustomed to just being out there.. it just is more visible for us now.

Stern can set up a stream, they just can’t stream on a third party like YouTube and Facebook. It’s the third parties that are advertising and earning revenue and not willing to share. If Stern had streamed via there own ad free website they would have been fine. Just like they are now with insider.

Just get on the horn, get it approved from the licensor, then get with your desired medium to see what the next steps are. Can’t be that hard, or expensive.

And these tech coporations (Fb, Google, Youtube etc) deserve to be scrutinized. Instead of coughing up the revenue, they're bashing the users, hoping that will force the rights holders to re-consider. Thats what you get when you allow concentration of power in any marketplace. Just the regulators have no idea how to manage it nor do the politicians want to upset everyone addicted to social media.

They are so big they just don't care, why deal with the rights holders, how much ad revenue did they lose by just punting the stream. Stern and Deadflip just hoped Facebook would sort it out for them and negotiate a deal with Led Zeppelin to come to an amicable agreement about sharing the revenue from the content containing their copyrighted work. I know I was shocked when Facebooked decided it was easier to remove the content. Nothing will change until people stop posting everything on these platforms.

And thank sweet baby Jesus for that. What do u get for 6 to 9K? you answered it. Speed, Flow and fun.
Man, u guys and by that I mean JJP enthusiasts are so into the BOM. I think that's the main reason for the slight obsession with that company. They appear to satisfy the cost by all the stuff on the PF and yet the fact is they just don't play as well as Sterns. Maybe they should concentrate more on gameplay and less on trying to impress everyone with flashy mechs and gimmicks and lights, like someone said above the pin with the worst art and toys especially in terms of appearance is the most fun of the JJP games, Dialed In.

This is a path that will become more and more unreasonable.
In the future can you even Show Pictures of your house?
What if there is a painting? A specially designed furniture?
A plant that is produced and cultivated by a Company?

If they want people at all beeing able to produce any kind of own material, they have to sort this.
I´d like to see a clear ruleset that if you replicate anything in a way that it replaces the original, then it´s not permitted. Having bits of Music coming out from a pinball machine and then a microphone recording of that while people talk....
If that is prohibited, it´s just silly.

Totally disagree. Most modern Sterns are screaming lack of effort and feels totally soulless.

How many barren games with zero theme integration that shoots well do you really need? One? Two?

Granted JJP´s are by no means perfect, but atleast you feel the effort put into theese games.

I´ve recently had stranger things and dialed in at home, really didn´t like any of them.
(i like afm, sth is just a ugglier, sloppier and cheaper feeling version)
(DI is a theme that is really strange and the scoring balance is so bad, you end up basically doing one thing.)
But you have to be really biased if you didn´t notice the huge difference in lack of effort.

It would be a Dream having Eric M and Keith E working together in jjp Environment.

Eric is creative and artistic and Keith is the best at ball-paths structure.

I have definitely seen videos on YouTube channels like Architecture Digest where they blur out art on house tours. Definitely silly. Same reason that there’s no branding on clothes in movies. So dumb. Like the movie is better because the main character wore a Nike hat in one scene.

On the flip side my wife used to work for a liquor company who paid a ton of money to have James Bond order a vodka martini with their brand. We made a night of going to the premiere with her boss and coworkers and partnered with a bar to party before and after. Watched the whole movie... scene was cut. They were using the company’s product throughout the movie but bond never ordered it. Epic fail. We got a bunch of free vodka martinis out of it though!!!

I was contacted late yesterday from Trent that someone dropped out of their LE. I had emailed him just before the reveal. I passed. So of you're still gunning for one ...

Did you just say Dialed In has the worst art and toys? That's a good one. DI also has some of the best gameplay in pinball on top of being a loaded pin with great artwork by John Youssi. That's my "fact".

I've had zero issues with gameplay on any JJP pins. Personally I want to play and own games that are loaded up and actually have things that interact with the ball. I'm not paying $6k - $9k+ for orbits and ramps, there needs to be more. Maybe Stern should try focusing on making their games worth those price tags and less on cutting costs and $1k toppers?

No one here is saying Sterns suck or are not fun. Sterns are great, they are fun but the issue many people have is that they don't find them to be worth the price tag. For example LZ premium and LE have two stand-up ball save targets to "activate" a virtual kick back versus a real one. Thats the crap period are tired of with these crazy prices. Its a bit sad to then see people defend those cost cutting decisions by saying the game will play faster...Stern must love that.

Side note. What I find ironic is you bash JJP constantly about their games being too loaded and "slow" and then I saw your post about wanting an Alien. Lol.

Counterpoint: It's soulless and repetitive and the SIM shot is garbage. That's my "opinion".

Of the JJP games yeah. The ridiculous looking handyman and jeans girl then the preteen girl cell phone with bad sim game style animations, again for me yeah the worst but the most fun to play.

constantly? nope. Alien is pretty open until u hit the back of the game. Also its Alien, have ever seen tunnel mode in action? nothing in the JJP realm comes close.

Again BOM crap and Stern doesn't have to focus on anything they are by far the biggest company on Earth making pins, think before u say foolish things sir.

What people? seems to me its always the same few and we know what kind of fanboys they are. Whoops, enthusiasts. How many Zeppelin LE's remain? do u honestly believe this pin won't sell because of bad art and again this horseshit notion of it not meeting the price asked vs toys and features. If ur theories held any water then JJP should be on top, no? R they? No. Did that go the way u thought it would. No

I'll agree with you on this, Alien looks cool! I'm hoping Pinball Brothers pulls it off. I only played an original model once and it wasn't working correctly.

I'm glad we still have pinball of all things to argue about and can even consider still buying a pin, regardless of the manufacturer, in 2020.

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Wow Hazoff you really pulled this one out your ass?

Just saw the LZ stream... This game is going to be fun and fast, but no doubt they played it safe here. Every aspect of the game is just another persons opinion, this game isn't going to be the best at anything. Based on theme alone, this game will sell well and certainly be some people's favorite, but other games will have better art, shoot better, have better theme integration, have better light show's etc.

I guess my only point is, it would be nice if the latest game off the line was a contender in doing at least something the best. It'll be fun, just like all other pinballs are fun.

Wrong. It'll be the best Led Zeppelin game in my house.

LOL. Yes. Yes it will.

LOL He said DI has the best gameplay or in Hazoff words DI is the most fun to play of all JJP games

The burden of clearance and legal falls on the content creator that is using the copyrighted material for their gain. Not the other way around.

The problem is lazy and overly broad enforcement. It doesn't matter if they're using it legally. The platform holder tools do not allow the level of nuance that the creators are legally entitled to. (And they're all at different experience levels. Amazon/Twitch is by far the worst because they're only recently getting serious about enforcement, so they've been the most draconian)

There are millions of hours of content to police. It's just some simple bots constantly scanning everything. The platformer holders err on the side of it's better to take down content creators stuff and inconvenience them than to risk being sued by media companies.

It's very much a "kill them all and let god sort them out" type solution.

If you create media, go through the proper clearance and legal, and host these yourself at your expense, there should be zero problems from a copyright standpoint.

I guess I'm not seeing the problem. Which, if I am now seeing clearly, seems like people are running their business content through YouTube or Facebook etc. This seems flawed from the start in my opinion. I know people are doing it all the time, but don't be surprised when the rug is pulled out from under you at their discretion.

Dialed in is the best playing of the JJP games.. also the ugliest and dopiest theme (and thats saying something due to WOZ)

And to be clear I really like the game.. just saying its fugly.

It has to be great to overcome the lame theme and art.. which it does.

you only get what you pay for...........nobody rides for free

Correct, it's because they're not hosting it themselves. They're using Amazon/Google/Facebook services and tools. They're subject to how those companies comply with the law, and they all have differing standards and methods. The only commonality is they all have poor solutions considering the size of the problem.

And I agree to some degree. It's foolish to try to build yourself up through those companies or to become overly reliant on them, because they don't care about you and have so much control over your work with little recourse. But it's also incredibly expensive to host videos, especially live videos with a chat system and a robust monetization system with a built-in large audience. That's why it's so tempting to use the platformers in exchange for giving up a lot of control. (And since Jack Danger is Stern's main social media person, and he's fully bought into Twitch, it's not surprising that Twitch has been the preferred platform for Stern until now)

All that said Stern needs to just be better about making and hosting videos on their own website.

This problem has been on the horizon for a long time and isn't about to get fixed soon. Streaming has been a legal gray area for a while. I know for years video game podcasts I listen to have been questioning when the the legality of streaming would really hit the fan. The industry already had a weird relationship with streamers, but now their licensing and business partners want their taste of the streaming pie and to argue about what actually is and isn't being licensed (and what it will cost).

That’s the thing. Even if stern got approval from the licensor on this, they still would’ve been booted from the stream.

This is false if Stern got approval for Facebook to collect revenue from the copyrighted works of Led Zeppelin that stream would certainly be up with millions of views. Facebook will not share that revenue and Led Zeppelin is certainly not going to be ok with that.

Personally I believe they knew full well the stream would go down. They played up how they were felons and rebelling. It was a poorly planned PR stunt. A lame attempt to be “Rock n Roll”. I guess it worked people are still talking about it.

Well there you go. It sounds like Stern needs to do proper legal and host their own commercial demos for their 6-10K products.

Congrats, you win the “dumbest Stern Conspiracy Theory 2020 Edition.”

And the competition was stiff.

To be clear, I like the streams and having a chance to ask questions out of the creative team.

But I'm also not running the company...I'd have them do pre-produced videos explaining the rules with proper audio/video outs. Something like Tim Sexton explaining rules and showing cuts of gameplay relevant to what's being discussed. Keith and Randy Elwin did great tutorial videos back in the day: example

I think Stern needs a video like that for every one of their games. The community fills in the gap, so I get why Stern doesn't feel like they need to spend the resources. But it would be nice. They had started the "Sharpshooter Pro" or whatever series on Stern Insider, and it never went anywhere after a single stream a year ago.

Totally disagree with this and Stern other than I don’t need another Steve Ritchie “flow monster”

Take a look at the top 15 pins and then ponder why you might be in the extreme minority with your Stern comments

Other “recent Sterns” are not as you describe. Lol

Come on. You don’t seriously believe this? Haha

More likely was Jack possibly brought the issue up and maybe even suggested they get it all cleansed before they went live, but Stern decided not to.

Or there isn’t a proper channel to have this done at this time. It’s just you vs the bots and you can try to fight it later if you want.

Anyone that has made a nickel posting content knew this video was coming down. This was as surprising as getting wet when you go outside in the rain. I find it hard to believe Stern is that clueless but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Jack 100% knew this was coming down, that is why he is playing it up the way he is. It is possible he thought he had the chops to manipulate the audio in such that the system couldn’t detect it. Pick your poison incompetence or a clever stunt.

Do these people that stream pinball make a living doing it or does it supplement some other main income?

Yeah he knew hence the weird way they set it up to try and circumvent it. Either he warned Stern it could happen and they didn’t care to take the necessary steps to get it blessed, or that process doesn’t really exist yet on platforms like twitch, FB and YT.

I have discussed this a lot with other streamers and I can’t find anywhere where a streamer has gotten approval from the licensor, and streamed without issue and got paid for it.