I assume its allot like Led Zeppelin...

SR's focus is on designing the best game he can from a playability standpoint therefore perhaps the artwork isnt high in the list of priorities.

Same reason Led Zeppelin album art kinda sucks in most cases... I am sure Jimmy Page cared 100% about the music inside not the packaging and probably gave ten minutes thought to the art.

They did release an album in a paperbag at one point.

For people that arent visual artists they work from another angle and the packaging and trappings and other marketing sort of bullshit is an afterthought allot of times.

Check out frank zappa lyrics and song names... he could have cared less what you call it.

I’ve never understood why Stern hasn’t done a Rockband or Guitar Hero style pin. If each song had some basic video and code they could probably charge $100 a song. They could do quick button combination “fills” during orbits and ramps. It would work perfectly on a pin that is just all ramps and loops. Just flow and combos to the music. It would just print money.

Keith J in another thread said dealing with more than one licensor entity is a nightmare.

Makes sense and probably why it’s never been done

The whole it would be hard doesn’t hold water with me. It’s just business, common place in other industries. Just for a single cover athlete in a video game you may deal with a dozen licensors.

I’m mildly amused that people will buy a pin sight unseen just because of the theme. Also sell out LEs without regard to what you are getting for the extra $1800. I’m not complaining more just seems like this happens a lot and yet Stern gets away with it for a good theme. I mean if xyz is a theme some people will throw down $9K no matter what.

I’ve seen Stern get creative with pricing up games like BM66 and Elvira can’t believe they didn’t make 68 SLE of LZ for $15K.

Listened to Tim discuss LZ rules and his direction on Pinball Profile podcast ... bravo. My takeaway was the core code is in place, as are most modes and scoring etc. He didn’t say what level the software was but based on his feedback, I’d guess 75% of the way to 1.0 code. However some of what he discussed as being fun and planned rules have yet to make it into the code, nor has it been created. He mentioned considering some other ideas and scoring adjustments that likewise has not yet been created. One final promise he made was to incorporate co-op/teamup play styles near the end of his effort.

In my head, this boils down to -> waiting six months for the true and full nature of code to evolve and give LZ pinball a try then. Until then, consider it an expensive box of blinking lights with AWESOME music. The problem with that approach is the game is being made now. Of course Tim wants you to buy and play it now and have fun watching the software evolve. But as an end user, I want it mostly done when offered for sale and prior to shipping game one. No way I’d buy this game without playing one and UNTIL the code is settled. If that means June, then I’ll find out then and that’s the first problem I have with this offering.

In the meantime I’ll listen to LZ music and look at at pics of cabinets, translites and playfield art while softly sobbing, knowing a four-year old could have managed the Client/designed three better packages. In the future when Stern vaults this title, maybe we’ll see a decent art package. I can’t get past, nor will I accept any of the announced models. So that’s my second complaint.

Settling for 10 songs from a classic band with so many hit songs, is a slap in the face of every pinball poppin LZ fan. The existing list should add another 6-10 songs. It’s only money, so buy the licenses and have the Stern Team integrate. Then, at least the music content would feel like we were getting our money’s worth. That is my final issue.

Three strikes and this pin is out for me. I’m not even considering game play yet because until June 2021, how would I know enough to comment?

You just felt the need to be a smart ass and sorry if you don’t like me calling you out on it. I gave my opinion and you had to act like a child and a dick.

Sort of like a Woodstock or Festival pin? That would be sweet. Multiple licenses, but if you could get bands that like each other and that are all open to equal representation on the pin that would be super fun. Difficult ask though.

Considering Tim's previous effort (BKSOR) I think that is a smart choice. Sadly I don't have your patience.

That and the business model doesn’t work. They sold millions of plastic instruments in the hey day. They sell around five thousand of a single title if it’s really popular.

A $3 song with millions of possible buyers. For a unit with a few thousand possible buyers, it would need to be like $500 a song. And that’s assuming it’s cheap to make new tracks on a semi regular basis.

It was a massive success with insane revenue and profit. Yes people moved on to other things nothing lasts forever. The staying power of those games was unheard of at the time. Years later people were still pumping money in. They defined success and it’s still the model today.

I’m thinking Stern’s first Limited Edition cardboard box could persuade the LE haters.

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The upper flipper play is the main thing I am holding out on. How easy will the hot shot ramp be? Is the center ramp generally achievable? It feels a bit limited in scope on first glance but if center ramp is legit I think it'll be a winner for flow. Left orbit > third flipper > center ramp $

Since Stern seems to have forgotten how to do playfield art or simply just didn’t care for LZ, perhaps an amateur like myself, with no background in art, could provide a bit of insight. Then the “pinball art professionals” who spend full-time on this topic (even a career), and have obviously been trusted with skinning multi-million dollar projects for this growing industry, could learn a few things.

So this morning I was playing my MM (1997) and took a few pics as an example of what pinball art looks like - what those who know anything about this hobby appreciate. At the very least I want to make the point that people used to care - they simply used to give a fck an put effort into playfield art. Now I don’t even care enough to look up the name of the human in charge of art on LZ, but I’ll leave it to you all to judge how much thought and effort he put into his work compared to what was common in 1997 and is even common these days.

So regarding playfield art, the first thing is that the placement, shape and purpose of each insert should be tied into the design of the game from day one.

Next the art around each of those carefully considered inserts ties directly into the surrounding art and even plays a large part in conveying rules and gameplay direction to the player.

Lets begin.

Here are the wizard inserts that are designated by stars:
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Notice how tied into the art they are. Also here is a shot of the other star for wizard (example of conveying rules and telling rhe player what is connected to what)
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Notice the surorunding stars, the scroll for extra ball and troll helmet.

(Continued)

For joust in the outer loop, look at this artwork. Notice theme integration for joust (lances) put into the surrounding art of every fkn insert:

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OMG! Did you see the horrible gradient on the shield?

Here is the main goal of the game in artistic form - the inserts are castles. And notice even the insert between the flippers, theme integrated everywhere.

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The seal of the scroll that describes the main goal of the game.

Next, look at the deeper goals of the game, each fkn insert has art tied directly to the game.

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Now look at the royal madness bank and the damsel sword
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Look at how much care has been taken with the art to convey the madnesses even conveying with banners under banners how you need to complete them all to get royal madness.
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Well hell. I thought I was mentioning that the blk and white did not sell well. Was not a personal attack.

Here is catapult... look at the attention to detail, the arm coming across and loading the cannonball.

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Every insert carefully thought out and crafted with care.

The revolting peasants:

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Here is the super jackpot insert:
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Even the outlane inserts, full care and attention:

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Man...you're REALLY pissed about the artwork, aren't you? I just had to blow past a shit ton of pictures just to get back to Pinside.

Could we get some MM backglass pics?

MM hype thread

I have a Medieval Madness pin and really enjoy playing it.

If MM came out now everybody would say it sucks fucking ass.

Yeah it has a decent art package, but the theme?! THey wouldn't pony up for a REAL Monty Python game so we get this Premier-style knockoff?

Wow. Two flipper fan layout. HOW ORIGINAL! Designer needs to retire.

And the code?!?! WHat did they spend, like 2 weeks on it? Where's the depth? Some Munsters-level shit there.

Also the voices are dumb. Why is there a valley girl? What's with all the dumb dad jokes?

They must think we are stupid! And they hate us! PINBALL FUCKING SUCKS!

So for those of you new to pinball (including the artist for LZ), welcome. I hope this served as a small introduction to what pinball art and insert theme integration can be and has fkn been for decades.

Now I will leave again with the current insulting garbage art that has been presented to us.

Clearly there was no coordination and planning when the playfield was being designed. It’s very clear someone was given a weekend to paste some art on this shit. Look at the fkn Icarus image with inserts just covering up random parts. No care. No consideration.

And no respect for the pinball artform or for this hobby.

Again the work speaks for itself and I hope by showing pics of my MM this morning, those of you new to the hobby, on the Stern payroll or just apologists and shills can at least understand WHY this disrespect for Led Zeppelin and the pinball art form leaves us wanting more.

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You're not wrong.

You're not wrong.

heh... this is painfully true.

And MM is the most overrated game ever made.

Dude,

Its 2020. Noone cares about art anymore...

Music sucks, movies suck, you think some pinball company selling a commercial device and making a few a year is going to bend over backwards to make a work of art?

CrazyLevi, you IS crazy!

Damn. I just cancelled my LZLE order and put a deposit down on MMR....

What I learned from this thread today: flynnibus is in a bad mood.

He's spot on... dont forget Monster Bash, another way overrated game (except for the art).

The holidays can be a very stressful time!

Here's some lovely pictures of a snowy Times Square / Rock Center from last night, to help put you everybody in a majestic and cheerful holiday mood!

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Yup no attention to detail here

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You have a time stamp where he specifically says the bulk of “ the fun and planned rules” aren’t in the game at all or even begun to developed yet?

I listened twice and don’t recall him saying that other than the co op mode, might possibly adjust time to complete song and some other tweaks.

I think the meat and potatoes are already there and tomorrow’s stream is supposed to be on the LE which is good.

Aw see... that almost makes me miss living there.

The city I do miss, the cold and generally shit weather not so much.

Yeah it's pretty much a black slushy wonderland by now as you'd expect, but it's worth it for that brief window of elegant beauty!

Ok, here's 10 consecutive posts illustrating why Police Force's art package is indeed superior to Led Zep....

Funny, I was just thinking this last night.. just go with the art & theme guys, double down on it.. especially with the LE. That was the 70's, like it or not. I love the blue, is it Possible to tie-dye the armor? If not, wrap blue jeans material around the legs? Glasses, beads, flowers.. someone told me there's a girl out there with love in her eyes & flowers in her hair

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I’m pretty sure LZ took more than a weekend to complete. But the more I look at LZ art the more I see it’s lazy as F.

I enjoy your examples of MM very much.

I take it as there is just a lot of angry dudes out there that need to get laid.

The anger over art and pinball is comical.

They should make a Pandora pinball machine, apparently they pay the artists close to nothing.

One example of ‘bad art’ on a great pin may be Tron. I’m not a big fan of floating heads (JJP Potc I’m looking at you). I’m just pointing out a pinball machine can have bad art and still be very fun to play. But it’s true that there have been some excellent pinball art packages recently as well as some bad.

On an announcement, theme is the most important.
On a reveal, art is the most important.
On a stream, game play is the most important.
At home, fun and code are the most important.

Of course this is all reductive, but so far we are at Step 2 and art is the main real thing we have to comment on.

Well said 100% agree.

We have K man saying Stern sold out the LE allotment just on theme alone before it was ever shown to the public.

And we really need to get to a stream because the art is anti hype