Aren't the wizard modes in Maiden also songs you could already be playing if you chose them at the start?

Yeah. I get the surprise but now its a marketing negative. Announce it and let people know what they are working towards. Hell I suck so may never see it with the glass on

I want to know what music is in the multi balls too. Usually they're different, like KISS w/Love Gun and Calling Dr. Love.

So the Multiballs are all tour modes so I’m guessing same music integrated with footage and tour posters from the respective tours.

Example electric magic shows were like a circus atmosphere with some cool posters, I’m guessing we get some of that for electric magic multiball.

Led Zep has made me curious about one thing, what other mechs could you have rise out a playfield? A kickback could really change a games layout and shots.

In Tims interviews they will play within any song being played, so i don't expect unique music. But the wiz modes are after all 10 are done. I cannot believe they would mash up as songs there. Maybe live performances but that would be redundant. Everyone ping Tim on the Facebook stream .... what is the wizard mode music !

Does anyone know what happens on JJP GNR wizard mode yet? Shit POTC doesn’t even have one but when it gets coded I expect it to be really good.

This mech can sorta do that. Tim mentioned coding to catch and lower ball and throwing back at player after caught. I love AIQ but Im more psyched on this mech then the portal spinner.

I thought for sure there would be a mechanical ramp that rose up out of PF for the Stairway to heaven shot, obviously not the case!

If Stern was able to make a pirate ship rise and sink back in 2006 surely they could have done something with the Zeppelin.

Yeah this is what has me a little skeptical on code. Granted Maiden is my only recent music pin experience, but I like starting a song but then having different tracks come in via modes - breaks up the repetition. But on that interview Tim said you're always in song mode, which makes me wonder if you pick Rock n Roll, for example, then start Zeppelin Multiball, is it still just Rock n Roll? That might feel a bit flat but we shall see.

When I first saw the insert art for the Wizard modes I saw the Zepp logo with the question mark and immediately thought of Dazed and Confused with crazy light show, it is from the LZ 1 album.

Then i saw the other insert called top of the charts and thought that can only mean something with Stairway to heaven.

I’m obviously looking at this from the perspective of a LZ fan!

Similar to how your always in GNR song with multiballs?

You nailed it sir

edit: already covered

But you qualify those songs after some intro play where there are random backing tracks right? I'm actually not a huge fan of that either (would prefer proper songs) but it's not the same song for the whole ball afaik.

I like how they utilized the music in the Stones. Song for ball 1/2/3 and then depending on what modes you start get different songs, songs totally unique to the Multiballs and song dedicated to the wizard mode.

Anyone have any ideas what the second switch in shooter lane could be for?

Only because you are counting individual standups as 'shots' - which is non-sense.

Once the honeymoon stage is over and people's arms hurt from the up and down motion of the axe and looking at Fat Axle too long causing nightmares it may open up their eyes to LZ. Time will tell

Quote of the month!

And I agree ... the slingshot stuff is bizarre. It makes me wonder if they are gonna sell 'upgraded plastics' now as accessories.

Its not nonsense. A shot is a fn shot. So 1 standup to you equals a bank of 4? If you say yes then you must love Borg mono target banks

Someone will need to make a replacement slingshot plastic mod with art retaining the same coloring or at the very minimum some sort of decal.

Thinking black and clear decal of Page and Plant

Eliminates playfield validation shenanigans

I've never looked into getting anything licensed, but I'm sure it's not fun.

My question is, why pursue a license from a licensee that puts heavy limitations on what you are trying to create? I can understand protecting the license, but to just accept a folder of clip art and not have any wiggle room for your own creativity must leave you feeling deflated. For me, having limits like this would take away any excitement before I even got started, especially if you are a huge fan of said license.

Also, this is Stern, who has a proven track record, who has proven they can do amazing things when given room to. They can do artwork.

Is it solely because of money? It can't be. Never mind, it is.

I’m a huge fan of magnets in pinball but I don’t know if you could really replicate a kickback with a magnet throw?

Espeically inside something with such a small housing, would love to be proved wrong. It would be great on Zep if that mech can throw it back at you fast, as well as lock the ball plus the spinner that would be killer!

Although I still kinda wish it lined up with the centre ramp, shooting through a rising spinner to the ramp would be super satisfying.

I think the point of the illustration is not about liking the AS art or not - but looking at the techniques and differences in how the art integrates with the physical aspects of the playfield. Aerosmith has extra value in a comparison because it is another band game where the number of iconic images associated with the band is limited. So with a limited portfolio to work from, where do you go? AS is an example where they had to create so much in both art and multimedia. They took that 70s era peak of Aerosmith's breakout and built from there.

But it does beg the question... if it were to be so limiting, should they had proceeded? Should they have questioned the viability and stopped?

The one saving grace is... when GoT was launched, everyone thought it was the ugliest baby we've seen. Eventually everyone forgot about the artwork because they liked playing the game. Now, people rarely talk about the gears everywhere, the ugly shield, the colors, etc.

Maybe LZ's playability will be good enough to earn the same kind of pass... but LZ certainly hits new lows for Stern in terms of art direction and levels of tolerance. Did Greg Freres checkout or what?

If Stern was so limited on the art package due to licensing stuff they should just have said "fck it, let's do another game" and dropped LZ completely imo. A half assed, super-ugly pin is worse than none at all.

I 100% agree with the previous comments about inserts and stuff not fitting to the playfield art at all. Also those boring slingshot plastics and a few symbols/images overused 200 times all over the game. Simply a crap job in the art department.

Shots in this context are more like 'objectives' in the geometry. You don't count a ramp with standups guarding the entrance as 3 shots. That is some literal interpretation that has zero applicability to the whole point people bring up 'shots' in the first place.. which is looking at the diversity and breath in a playfield's layout.

When you look at ACDC's layout.. you see a 'TNT target bank' you don't say "There are three different TNT shots!"

Shot maps are about things you are aiming for - you don't count each target individually in that discussion.

I just can't get behind the idea that 3 stand up targets in a single bank is equal to 2 ramps and an orbit as far as numbers of shots. I know I wouldn't count the left ramp on GB or TMNT as 3 shots: ramp itself plus two standups. But it does bring up an interesting question about what counts as a "shot." I would argue that code implementation matters too.

I know this wasn't directed at me but yes, I do like the mono target on TMNT the way that it is implemented in the code. Plus, instead of a plastic target, you get a metal one so that's a plus.

There’s 4.

It’ll be a fun enough shooter that stayed within budget. Complimentary drops for LED to match ZEP just stand out to me as another area that could have been more compelling.

Can you hit a ramp or orbit through the lift spinner. The video seems to show the ball just kinda rattling around after it goes through. It just seems kinda lame, the ball needs to travel to make a spinner satisfying.

I agree, when I first saw the photos I was like wow lots of drops to only find 3.

Pre/LE should have been all drops.

Maybe this can be modded like Ac/dc?

The black and white of the premium is nice. I think it will go well with the basic armor that ships. Maybe a different translight?
Still looking forward to a livestream.

It appears to mostly hit the icarus target. I wish it lined up with the ramp instead.

Not quite sure, camera angle sucked but it does show it go straight through to the Icarus target.

It’s an opto spinner so it probably rips good like on Beatles.

The other spinner opto as well?

Left orbit goes all the way around to 3rd flipper?

If yes, a fast left orbit to upper flipper then hot shot ramp could be a cool combo.

I thought I heard Jack Danger said he could rip the spinner into the center ramp.

I’m mostly looking forward to seeing the center ramp shot made from the upper flipper. There’s a rubber wall right next to the center ramp above the side ramp/standup target. I guess it’s supposed to be like the snikt bank shot into a ramp.

Sure, in the idea of rules/objectives of the game.. number of targets matters (and why the monotarget vs 3 bank is a bummer). And when you talk about 'how interesting/valuable' something is.. the rules/sw play a big role. But when talking shot layout and layout diversity.. nah. You don't go around counting switches on the game It's just being literal while ignoring the intent.

That shot would have to be made from right flipper I guess and the icarus target possibly from both?

Seems like the right flipper angle and path to center ramp is only way.

I like to hold off judgement on these things until I get to see / play it in person but one thing that jumps out in this comparison is how LZ is more like some old-school Ritchie / pinball art in that there are "lanes" (for lack of a better term) helping you understand the shot geometry all the way down into the middle of the playfield. I'm sure there are tons of examples of this but High Speed immediately comes to mind (probably because I owned it for 20 years). Aerosmith has none of that, if it's a good thing or bad thing is certainly subjective but I could see the LZ style really helpful for newer players trying to understand where the ball should go and what angle off the flipper it needs to be to get it there.

The only people that know the real deal are the people closest to the project and negotiation. From where we sit, it's impossible to "blame" the licensee. If SR games are commonly criticized for less-than-great art, he is either getting the bad luck of the draw OR it's not something he chooses to focus on (or have an eye for). The game designers @ Stern seem to have ultimate responsibility for what is produced. In larger tech/media companies, there would be someone above the designer/director that might have influence or veto power over the creative process (for good or bad).

Since Stern is a manufacturing powerhouse, all they want to do is crank them out, since they sell every game they make. The quality of anything doesn't seem to matter in today's ever expanding home market. For years, Gary poopooed the home market, but thanks to us, Stern is thriving despite COVID raging!

I'm glad not every game is as good as Stern's JP2...a masterpiece. I'm happy if 1 game per year is stunning...my collection is large enough!

This would be more suited on a headstone in a cemetery!

HEADSTONE (2) (resized).jpeg

I feel like there are two different games meshed into one art wise for pro/premium. The cabinet album art is such a stark difference from the playfield and vice versa.

They should have kept the playfield colors muted and maybe go the route like was done with Centaur with black and white with some red thrown in.

I did art all through grade school, high school, and some college before joining the military. There is just no balance or cohesion in the art like you get with Aerosmith, AC/DC, and Metallica.

It’s like there was one artist for the cabinet and one for the playfield and both went in opposite directions and then someone stitched the two together.

I know art doesn’t effect gameplay positively or negatively, but these pins are so prominent in ones room they are looked at like a painting on a wall, or a nice piece of furniture. When I walk into my house and see Monster Bash and BKSOR premium it definitely is satisfying and adds something to the game and room for me.

Aerosmith art I just totally love. Great representation of the psychedelic 70’s and of the band. Art is subjective I know, but with LZ it just doesn’t work for me.

Should have been all black and white with some red and yellows for highlights on the Playfield to go with the cabinet or add the same color pallet from the current playfield to the cabinet. Just my opinion.

Good point. My savings keep looking better and better. Keep it up, Stern!

Ya. Black and white worked great on munsters, cant give those away

The gameplay was the issue jackass with Munsters. Premium black and white munsters is sold out btw. The artwork on munsters BW premium was great but the game play was meh as is the code. Try to comprehend and keep up with what I was talking about. I was strictly talking about LZ from an art perspective which you apparently lack to see. People like you that are passive aggressive are pathetic.

Wow man relax. The black and white prem was a dud. The color version was a beautiful game, but was lackluster in play. Its ok, calm down

All this licensing talk had me thinking that a “ monsters of rock “ type theme would be sweet , assuming licensing was possible . A song or two from 5 or 6 big bands , integrated into one “ concert” theme . Wonder if it would be any cheaper to go that route ? “World Series of Rock “ if you will.