Sorry, the reference is to the “commodity” aspect of Gottlieb wedgeheads, that they were very generic and similar from title to title. They were built better than the competition, I agree, but end of the day, once a title ran out of money making steam, the dumpster was their usual reward after being stripped of usable parts. That as many of them have survived the dumpster these days is a miracle and if the machine title was forgettable, none have. Note my collection has 3 wedgeheads in it and I love them. They are a bargain compared to more modern machine pricing these days.

I wish we could just post topics about pinball without interjecting all this nonsense!
Thanks,
Gandamack (him, his, theirs)

You forgot they brought in the Disney cost cutting trolls to reduce the quality and impart the company killing profit maximizing that has done so well for so many pinball companies in the past.

Thank you for your prompt observation. I was attempting to be sarcastic by using a signature featuring pronouns, but ummmm...ya, well anyway.

Trust me, it was obvious.

When I said it was an “odd” thing for you to say you wished we could “just post topics about pinball without all this nonsense”, while having upvoted the person who introduced the nonsense, I didn’t mean to say that it was a puzzling or confusing thing for you to say. I meant that it was an intellectually dishonest thing for you to say.

Hope that helps!

Luckily, there is competition today. Maybe this will be the tipping point for other companies to gain market share. I’d rather have more, stronger competition for a weaker Stern than we have now. Give it time and let the market decide who has the best price vs quality product.

This sounds fucking horrible.

Just wait, shift to pachinko machines coming in..3...2....

Disney wont care if Stern is dead in 10 years.

Well here's unrealistically hoping they lower the upfront cost of the game and make it up in DLC or something. As of this year I'm completely priced out of buying new Stern pins no matter how strong the theme. I'm not sure how much cheaper and generic you can possibly make their games. It's going to be interesting for sure. The juice doesn't equal the squeeze for what they're putting out lately.

why not bingos? but with sterns cost cutting no hopper just TITO

Its the belief stern cannot do wrong. Im going to say it (this forum is going to loose their minds) Cary Hardy was wrong about layout aspects.

It should not be newb thing to look at the likeness of the layouts.

And to the point of profit here.

That is what pinball has alway been about, making operators money. The main group of people that the big four were making for was a machine to put on location and make money.

Show me a flyer that did not have the point of making money.

I doubt Disney cares enough about Stern to even know who they are outside of some people in the licensing department - same goes for JJP. I can't even envision a scenario in which Disney would buy either one, though they could do so with the bubblegum they scrape off the bottom of their balance sheet.

I don’t understand the first part of your statement at all. Reference the second about operators, I can assure you that operators are not their main focus in 2022. The home collector is, and has been for the past 10 or so years.

My personal experience--whenever some big deal corporate dude from some other type of business, with minimal (if any) knowledge of what the new company really does and how they operate, is always a bad deal for everyone but the shareholders/investors. Things will change, and not for the betterment of the pinball community.

Ha! I just started watching that show on AppleTV; now I want one!

Sorry, the new leadership is from Disney, my post is misleading. I doubt the new leader really cares if Stern is around in ten years.

MBA= Cut head count and stop spending any and all money on long term growth projects just long enough to increase short term profits and pad your resume so you can bail and move on to a higher profile gig. Bonus points if you push your accounts payable out to 90 or 120 days for that extra profit padding so you can make your performance bonus before you quit. They are ruining manufacturing in this country.

What is your basis for this statement? Operators get first dibs on all new games. Stern sends out launch kits for every title to encourage location play. Insider connect is setup solely to encourage location play. You can't even host a leaderboard or have verified achievements at home. Stern is definitely focused on both but I think operators are still their bread and butter as they buy multiple copies of machines and pretty much every title they produce.

Took a moment to read Seth Davis’ resume, and a couple of takeaways:

1) has already been President for 1 year, since Oct 21. Just is taking on CEO as well

2) was in charge of the Disney Infinity brand (the amiibo/sky landers physical toy-to-video-game thing that was going on in the 2010s)

3) managed strategy for Disney+ in its initial rollout

Those 2 Disney things were major brand expanding concepts, and required massive capital - and were both (initial, expected) losses for the company, even though they have been successful

I take this as potentially a good sign there’s a good understanding of R&D investment along with typical cost cutting … so we’ll see

My basis is operating stern pins and dealing with them directly for over 10 years.

Yep we get first crack at a pro if we are lucky enough to have a good distro get us one. People seem to be getting really hung up on IC right now, but I’m sure all of that stuff is coming for home play as well. You are delusional if you think the leaderboards are increasing coin drop with any significance, but it’s a fun add on for locations. Launch kit for bond was a plaque, trans light and 10 flyers.

Location play is important at this point as a showroom for potential home buyers. I believe Gary recently stated it was 70% home to 30% location as far as new game sales are concerned.

I think they care about operators in the fact that they also buy games, but stern is in the business to sell as many as possible. Right now that’s the home collector.

First the Chinese … now Stern!!

When will it end!!??!!

rd

Hahahaha! I even read that before editing, laughed and still forgot to change it.

I can see your points. My leaderboard definitely caused an uptick in earnings and have people pretty excited. Achievements have also caused more interest from people and it's drawing new people to my business. Maybe you need to promote yours better because its really popular.

Pinball is such a niche hobby I think stern should focus on the home buyer. I just think the audience for a $10k toy in the basement is pretty limited but there's definitely opportunity there.

I think stern is doing a pretty shit job of marketing to the home buyer considering most people I know outside of pinball aren't even remotely aware of it's existence even tho locations are popping up everywhere and appear to be thriving.

I'd take any upper-management coming from GE with a hefty dose of skepticism. Jack Welch and GE are running short on goodwill (around the Boston area, at least):
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/10/18/business/ge-scales-back-fort-point-plans-vacate-hq-next-year-smaller-office-space/

I disagree entirely- far too many new games (FPSs, MOBAs, lifestyle sims) boil themselves down to tedious grinds to unlock the next pointless cosmetic/perk/etc, and it would really suck for Pinball to go down that path too. I don't want to earn 500 battle pass XP for launching 300 balls in a week.
NO. *thwaps rolled-up newspaper*

I agree and need to promote it better. To be honest pre Covid the locations were just about to explode. Post pandemic we are still very much struggling to get players on location and most bars/breweries around here still have down numbers. The amount of new players from the lockdown is staggering but most seem to be home players. Some days it feels like starting over and trying to build a scene again.

At least this will prevent Neil Nicastro from closing down the pinball division on a whim

Too soon!

You don't like "Neutron Jack"?

That guy is a total POS.
The once great GE..... a glorious vertically integrated US manufacturing company, now just a skid mark on the underpants of history.
It's amazing how a single person has the ability to destroy something that took a century to build in just a decade..... even more amazing he was applauded and rewarded for it.

My old boss was a manager at GE for 20 years, and then Neutron Jack rolled into town..... by the time he left, the building was empty and thousands were unemployed.
The most evil, greedy, and shortsighted CEO of his era.... and one that all the other CEO's tried to emulate. Goodbye manufacturing base, goodbye blue-collar, hello trash import garbage. It all started with him.....

He has a lot in common with E. Hunter Harrison and how he ruined the railroad industry.

I find your characterization of "weirdo" to be much more offensive than another member stating they don't hope someone who has been strongly associated with a company that is heavily "woke" bringing said thing into pinball. Yet you don't expound on that topic, instead, criticize something that is pretty well stated as being present in a company (Disney). Do you know why Gina Carano is not in the Mandalorian anymore or anywhere in the machine? It's not someone here's doing, ie, the "weirdo" that posted a comment about what could happen. LOL. And on top of that, you stalk the upvote/downvote on a post to try and bolster your point and criticize a pinside member. That's actually the weirdest part of this whole thread, I actually think I know who the weirdo is lol.

If you think that Stern is the same as it was just a few years ago, you're wrong. Look at the departures and how they have handled long term people that are very well respected in this hobby (Gary Stern, Steve Ritchie and Lyman to name 3 big ones). Look at how they have over-priced everything including the $2K topper, re-released old titles with a huge price increase (Elvira), and have pretty much put the finger out to the Pinball fans and let them know it's all about the money more now than it ever has been. I really don't care about Stern anymore, they will get $0.00 of my future money... The only money I will pay will be to on-location sites to support those that are buying these overpriced machines so I can play them for $1...

Ouch. Is that guy Neil still kicking?

Geez I’d bet he’s feeling the fool forever, speaking of idiotic CEO’s.

It's probably coming. Even the "Tesla" model is possible. Drive off with all features for a 30 day trial. Play the hell out of them. Love them. But to keep them, you need to pay. Kind of surprised they haven't done this at this point.

Did you listen to the williams system 2000 podcast from silverball chron? Give the guy a break.

This. I'm afraid. Honestly I was already priced out. Luckily I got some good games before that. I'll just go to shows. And Banning disaster, I loved you while it lasted.

Nope. Enlighten please…

Hyundai and Kia are already doing this. Remote start and navigation are subscription. First year free. At least three folks a week who state the remote start stopped working or the nav stopped on radio.

You can still buy new Stern Pros that have nothing to do with any of that. You don't have to do anything with toppers or Elvira or any other pricey stuff if you don't want to. The price increase on Pros is just right in line with inflation.

…and only Gary/decision makers at Stern are impressed by these new hires. They will most likely run Stern somewhat into the ground. Ron Johnson became CEO of JC Penny because that board was so impressed with his experience from Apple. We know the results now, he increased prices going away from core “value for money” and tanked JC Penny. Disney castoff Seth Davis will most likely do the same to Stern.

These 2 newbies do not get the HUO pinball buying public’s thinking. Recent ridiculous price increases on Pre/LEs for example are killing the golden goose. We’re not talking about a $15 subscription fee to Disney+ or a $60 video game. Seth is now making decisions on $10k + machines. Now thanks to his moronic thinking, they cost $13k plus! Hmmm, expensive pinball machines are a whole different mentality to any of his prior woke experience with Disney and GE.

Not impressed by any of his so called credentials. He’s a Disney woke cast off. Take a good look at Disney stock to see they know almost zero on how their market once worked. Disney has changed its core philosophy of being a reasonably well maintained vacation destination for families to a now somewhat run down expensive one for the wealthier crowd. Seth is/will do the same to Stern, since it’s in his DNA. Unlike Gary that has known tough times and delivering value for money, Seth has no such understanding. Watch prices continue to soar and many HUO buyers, which is 70% of Stern’s market, walk away from the pinball hobby.

A lot of your own opinions and assumptions built into that long comment.

My rebuttal is only the observation that Stern is selling twice the number of LEs at 40% higher prices than just a couple of years ago. So either Gary or Seth is smarter than the Pinside whiner brigade.

We have no idea how it will turn out but I’m interested in watching it unfold.

Did Seth sleep with your girlfriend or something?

Seth is of the same idiot’s crowd destroying Disney right now. He has a long history of involvement there. Maybe you should take a better look at his past experience. Ask Disney stockholders what they think of Seth’s background. He left there only a year ago, so not making assumptions. History demonstrates his 21st century Disney inept woke ways. Titles like MOTU, Venom, Foofighters, will struggle to sellout at a 40% increase over past titles like GZ, SW Mando and even Bond. Second hand market will not be kind to those titles. We are in economic turmoil, so woke/Seth price gouger ways will not help Stern at all. $2k toppers for less than a hundred dollars in parts/development? All done under Seth’s leadership: how much more proof do we need???

WMS was in a heap with pinball. Neal Nicastro saw the writing on the wall.

Let me break it to you that we live in a world were shockingly yes run on money. Neal saw fit to let them go to give it a try with pinball 2000 while the pinball division was being funded by its gambling cousin, slots.

on the other hand, had Williams not purchased Bally and let them die off then it would have saved their rear end but no, williams go too big and they failed in the pinball market.

Jpop was the designer of starwars had he listened to gomez and lawor he wouldnt crashed the ship.

Neal was a buisness man and sometimes you have to balence the books and order to keep WMS afloat he had to trim the tree and the most sense to do it where they were loosing money and that was pinball.

Listen up williams fanboys and cultests williams stepped on their own rakes but they cant unglue thrmselves from their rear to see the choices that killed them.

They got too big and it crashed them, the only thing that kept Bally alive was just a name on a pinball machine.

Neal was the only one that kept the WMS name from sinking but this hobby were so drunk on williams pinball they cant see straight and the hobby crucified the guy that had to make that choice.

At the end of the day the books and the acountants have the final say in all things pinball including today.

Stern and williams produced unispiring fans layouts with themes on them and you guys lap it up like its the greatest thing in on the planets.

The only other company Gottlieb did get creative but the community was cruel and cold as ice and killed them so they could have godesses. but now she's gone the hobby is left with Stern, no matter how much crap layouts stern throws onto a playfeild all they need to do is wave a theme and everyone just ask "how much" Stern could put a pop bumper with two flippers with a paid license and someone would sink thousands into that.

I thought of this possibility but I am hopeful that other manufacturers see this as an opportunity and fill the void.

Things like this self-correct. It’s just sad that we have to put up with the downhill slide.

I’m a big fan of Japanese cars. EXCELLENT quality. And when did the Japanese autos skyrocket in popularity? When the big guys cut corners and quality, and rested on their laurels putting out mediocre to crap quality cars.

I see manufacturers like Spooky, American Pinball and Jersey Jack possibly sitting on an opportunity similar to what Honda and Toyota saw in the 70s.

So why not keep raising the LEs and keep the Premium price down? Because they can’t or won’t? There is an opening for keeping the home buyers in but seems like they are losing them.