(Topic ID: 168140)

Stern just doesn't care (Kiss code)


By fattdirk

4 years ago



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  • 230 posts
  • 98 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Rob_G
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
23
#1 4 years ago

The last update for kiss was on 4/21. It's almost been 5 months and the game is still incomplete. I keep thinking an update is coming. Honestly I figured with all the playfield issues they've been having that they were going to try and do an act of goodwill by having a major code drop for the holiday. I was so disappointed. Nothing. I've just realized that they just don't care.

For some reason I just want to believe that it's coming, but I now realize it probably isn't. The company just doesn't give a shit about the customers. They really don't. I can't believe a product that costs such a high price can have such poor support. I really wanted a GB premium, but honestly I'm so pissed about the abandonment of Kiss and ignoring the obvious PF issues. I'm just going to start collecting older complete games instead.

As far as I'm concerned, Stern is garbage. Prove me wrong.

13
#2 4 years ago

When they completely sellout batman 66 le's in a couple hrs after the gb le issues, why should they worry?

12
#3 4 years ago

The world will always have those with more money than brains I guess.

#4 4 years ago

Stern feels that their primary focus with the exception of Batman 66 is with the operators market. In that market, the average guy who goes to a barcade etc drops a few bucks here and there and moves on. Chances are he would not notice the incomplete code. As the private collector market continues to expand with a simultaneous decline of the operator market, there is a greater need for the code to be complete.The guy who plays his game in the basement over months will definitely appreciate the deeper rule set and will notice code deficiencies. Until Stern recognizes the collector market, they will continue to release titles with incomplete code especially on the unpopular titles.

For the record, I don't think there is a single Lyman game that has incomplete code or code that was incomplete very long.

#5 4 years ago

But isn't that about right, the game code doesn't get polished til 2 years after. Yes time is up. They will do it in there spare time. I just walk past them when I see them on route. One time even with a free credit.

#6 4 years ago

I am surprised by the lack of code releases also.

You would think they could try and balance out the negative feedback with some updates...but no

Some serious damage done to their reputation through all of this

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

The last update for kiss was on 4/21. It's almost been 5 months and the game is still incomplete. I keep thinking an update is coming. Honestly I figured with all the playfield issues they've been having that they were going to try and do an act of goodwill by having a major code drop for the holiday. I was so disappointed. Nothing. I've just realized that they just don't care.
For some reason I just want to believe that it's coming, but I now realize it probably isn't. The company just doesn't give a shit about the customers. They really don't. I can't believe a product that costs such a high price can have such poor support. I really wanted a GB premium, but honestly I'm so pissed about the abandonment of Kiss and ignoring the obvious PF issues. I'm just going to start collecting older complete games instead.
As far as I'm concerned, Stern is garbage. Prove me wrong.

This was the same problem with Star Trek. Once someone new took over the code, the game just took off.

If rumors are true that Lyman has taken over coding the game, just hang in there and let him work his magic.

10
#8 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

The last update for kiss was on 4/21. It's almost been 5 months and the game is still incomplete. I keep thinking an update is coming. Honestly I figured with all the playfield issues they've been having that they were going to try and do an act of goodwill by having a major code drop for the holiday. I was so disappointed. Nothing. I've just realized that they just don't care.
For some reason I just want to believe that it's coming, but I now realize it probably isn't. The company just doesn't give a shit about the customers. They really don't. I can't believe a product that costs such a high price can have such poor support. I really wanted a GB premium, but honestly I'm so pissed about the abandonment of Kiss and ignoring the obvious PF issues. I'm just going to start collecting older complete games instead.
As far as I'm concerned, Stern is garbage. Prove me wrong.

Just speak with your money. Don't buy new games until the code is complete. I stopped awhile ago. Too many issues and aggravation that can be avoided.

#9 4 years ago

5 months is a long time for a code update.

-3
#11 4 years ago

Patience and discipline

#13 4 years ago

I've posted about it a few times, and every time I get crucified for it. There is no other industry that I can think of where releasing unfinished products is considered acceptable practice, but for some reason pinheads just keep telling them it's ok by shelling out $$.

#14 4 years ago

Five months is nothing, avengers took 2 years. You have to be vocal and use different channels to get their attention. Enough people start complaining, they will address it. if you buy nib, you have to be prepared that code will be immature and that it could take a long time to get where it needs to. In most cases, they come through, but it can be very frustrating. Be thankful your game doesnt have code issues that affect gameplay like avengers did.

#15 4 years ago

Not only shelling out money but exponentially more for a shit product. My issue is probably similar to other collectors. I've been collecting for 20 years now and have played most existing titles to death. I need new blood to sink my teeth into. Come on Stern stop failing us!

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Lip service is free and plentiful.

I get it man!

It gets to the point where you can get tired of chopping wood on these new games by the time code gets finished. And by then you may have already got rid of it. I dumped METLE right before the last major update and couldn't care less...

I won't buy one until it's finished from now on.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Darkslide632:

I've posted about it a few times, and every time I get crucified for it. There is no other industry that I can think of where releasing unfinished products is considered acceptable practice, but for some reason pinheads just keep telling them it's ok by shelling out $$.

Video games are notorious for this. Really, most software is typically released prematurely and updated, which includes pins.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Darkslide632:

I've posted about it a few times, and every time I get crucified for it. There is no other industry that I can think of where releasing unfinished products is considered acceptable practice, but for some reason pinheads just keep telling them it's ok by shelling out $$.

Not sure how people can crucify you for being upset on having zero code updates on a toy that costs as much as a used car. Lol.

#19 4 years ago

Furthermore, Stern knows that good code sells games - remember the spike in sales for WD when that big update came

It does nothing for their sales updating games like Avengers ages after production has ceased

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Five months is nothing, avengers took 2 years. You have to be vocal and use different channels to get their attention. Enough people start complaining, they will address it. if you buy nib, you have to be prepared that code will be immature and that it could take a long time to get where it needs to. In most cases, they come through, but it can be very frustrating. Be thankful your game doesnt have code issues that affect gameplay like avengers did.

This isn't an excuse to continue the practice though.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from PinBuck:

Video games are notorious for this. Really, most software is typically released prematurely and updated, which includes pins.

This is fine if the updates come but they dont.

-10
#22 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

The last update for kiss was on 4/21. It's almost been 5 months and the game is still incomplete. I keep thinking an update is coming. Honestly I figured with all the playfield issues they've been having that they were going to try and do an act of goodwill by having a major code drop for the holiday. I was so disappointed. Nothing. I've just realized that they just don't care.
For some reason I just want to believe that it's coming, but I now realize it probably isn't. The company just doesn't give a shit about the customers. They really don't. I can't believe a product that costs such a high price can have such poor support. I really wanted a GB premium, but honestly I'm so pissed about the abandonment of Kiss and ignoring the obvious PF issues. I'm just going to start collecting older complete games instead.
As far as I'm concerned, Stern is garbage. Prove me wrong.

It's nice to see you aren't prone to hyperbole or dramatic interpretation.

44
#23 4 years ago

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19
#24 4 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Just speak with your money. Don't buy new games until the code is complete. I stopped awhile ago. Too many issues and aggravation that can be avoided.

+1

After XMen, I stopped buying NIB games from Stern. And I've stuck to it! Just now, I'm picking up a Met because the code is complete (old stock because of play field issues). I also favor after market Stern games that Lyman is lead on. Higher chance those games get completed because his personal commitment.

If we don't speak with our money, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. But then you see Batman66 sell out without pictures or pricing. The community is not united on this topic because getting a collectible is more important to some.

For me - I'll continue to wait and reward with my wallet only when complete product is built.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's nice to see you aren't prone to hyperbole or dramatic interpretation.

You think 5 months isn't enough time for an update?

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

+1
After XMen, I stopped buying NIB games from Stern. And I've stuck to it! Just now, I'm picking up a Met because the code is complete (old stock because of play field issues). I also favor after market Stern games that Lyman is lead on. Higher chance those games get completed because his personal commitment.
If we don't speak with our money, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. But then you see Batman66 sell out without pictures or pricing. The community is not united on this topic because getting a collectible is more important to some.
For me - I'll continue to wait and reward with my wallet only when complete product is built.

You are a smart man.

14
#27 4 years ago

The line forms behind me, Pal...... Waiting on my WOF update any day now.....

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

After XMen, I stopped buying NIB games from Stern. And I've stuck to it! Just now, I'm picking up a Met because the code is complete (old stock because of play field issues). I also favor after market Stern games that Lyman is lead on. Higher chance those games get completed because his personal commitment.

I tried doing this - but then I fell for that horseshit about Stern's commitment to code releases. They then released that update for Avengers and I was thinking they cleaned up their act. Pulled the trigger on Kiss and here we are. Guess this was my fool me once time.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

5 months is a long time for a code update.

Unless you bought a first run NIB Metallica. I swear it was about a year before the first big update.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from Leeb18509:

Unless you bought a first run NIB Metallica. I swear it was about a year before the first big update.

I do remember the mystery would give you 500k every time for what seemed like forever.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

I tried doing this - but then I fell for that horseshit about Stern's commitment to code releases.

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#32 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

This was the same problem with Star Trek. Once someone new took over the code, the game just took off.
If rumors are true that Lyman has taken over coding the game, just hang in there and let him work his magic.

I thought it was that one dude's "where's the code" campaign that did it. But now that I think about it, probably just coincidence

#33 4 years ago

They should make the code open source and allow individuals to create and share their own version of the game. Once the base code is there, updates and additions shouldnt be that time consuming. I for one would be happy to build better and differant code for the pin community.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

This was the same problem with Star Trek. Once someone new took over the code, the game just took off.
If rumors are true that Lyman has taken over coding the game, just hang in there and let him work his magic.

Lyman shouldn't have to just "take this over" the company should produce a quality product. This is exactly my point. If the expectation of Stern's management was that they'd have a complete coded game in x months, it would be finished or you're out the door. The fact that releases are just whenever they seem to feel like it shows me they just really don't care about the customer.

Management is creating the expectation and the expectation they've created is pinheads will consume anything regardless of quality which isn't true.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from earetz:

They should make the code open source and allow individuals to create and share their own version of the game. Once the base code is there, updates and additions shouldnt be that time consuming. I for one would be happy to build better and differant code for the pin community.

How much time would you estimate it takes a developer to produce an update for one of these pins? Do you think it's really that intensive?

#36 4 years ago

The KISS game just isn't much fun at this point, and I'm a big fan of the band. I'm holding on to it in the hopes that an update will be released, but if the game had a different theme, I would have sold it by now.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

The KISS game just isn't much fun at this point, and I'm a big fan of the band. I'm holding on to it in the hopes that an update will be released, but if the game had a different theme, I would have sold it by now.

I think the layout is really good. The rules are so rudimentary though. I just don't understand why Stern doesn't update it and produce something good. Distributors are discounting it because they're not selling due to shit code. Update the machine Stern.

-8
#38 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

You think 5 months isn't enough time for an update?

I think it's not a big deal.

You know the story by now. You know it when you bought kiss.

Code in modern pinball machines is VERY deep and complicated - nothing like the stuff Williams was doing (which is about the same as what kiss was the day it first shipped).

You know the deal. Everybody knows the deal. It can take YEARS for stern code to get finished.

Stop being such a drama queen and acting like they strangled your puppy. They'll finish it eventually.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from earetz:

They should make the code open source and allow individuals to create and share their own version of the game. Once the base code is there, updates and additions shouldnt be that time consuming. I for one would be happy to build better and differant code for the pin community.

Will never happen.

-Someone accidentally /purposely programs something fries everyone's games - Stern won't take responsibility.

-These games are licensed products and everything has to be approved by the licensor. People changing audio & video will not fly. (yes I know there is he browser, but that is essentially a hack).

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Esoteric_rt:

I am surprised by the lack of code releases also.
You would think they could try and balance out the negative feedback with some updates...but no
Some serious damage done to their reputation through all of this

As far as stern/Jjp/or any other pinball maker is concerned....There will always be something or someone complaining about something... This is pinside u know!

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Lyman shouldn't have to just "take this over" the company should produce a quality product. This is exactly my point. If the expectation of Stern's management was that they'd have a complete coded game in x months, it would be finished or you're out the door. The fact that releases are just whenever they seem to feel like it shows me they just really don't care about the customer.
Management is creating the expectation and the expectation they've created is pinheads will consume anything regardless of quality which isn't true.

Dwight fixed Star Trek. Launch code for GOT and Ghostbusters is excellent.

Lyman hit it out of the park with Metallica and TWD.

Programmer #3 dropped the ball with KISS and Star Trek. I'll never buy another one of his games again.

#42 4 years ago

The term Stern used to describe their future efforts was "from this point forward", if some might recall the announcement with GB.
I am quite sure many may be waiting a long time.

1a3px9 (resized).jpg

#43 4 years ago

BTW, what exactly is unfinished on Kiss? The cities still do nothing, right? I always thought it was weird they put those in there without any purpose....had there not been a city selection, no one would know about it, and no one could complain. Anything massively obvious besides the cities?

#44 4 years ago

+1 for stop buying incomplete games

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from Darkslide632:

I've posted about it a few times, and every time I get crucified for it. There is no other industry that I can think of where releasing unfinished products is considered acceptable practice, but for some reason pinheads just keep telling them it's ok by shelling out $$.

Smartphones....

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think it's not a big deal.
You know the story by now. You know it when you bought kiss.
Code in modern pinball machines is VERY deep and complicated - nothing like the stuff Williams was doing (which is about the same as what kiss was the day it first shipped).
You know the deal. Everybody knows the deal. It can take YEARS for stern code to get finished.
Stop being such a fuckin baby. They'll finish it eventually.

So deep and complicated - lol. Knock down a few targets, score a few points, light a new mode. It isn't exactly rocket science. I mean you could also argue the sophistication of the development environments should make it easy to produce such "deep" code. I wouldn't call kiss even as deep as a BW machine of the 90's. Your attitude is exactly what allows Stern to keep producing garbage.

#47 4 years ago

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#48 4 years ago

My first 4 Stern pins were LOTRLE, SM, AC/DC premium and WPT. The first 2 are gone.

I've passed on a lot of pins because of theme alone for me.

I keep breaking my "play before you buy" rule with the last 3 Sterns I've purchased.

TWDLE, GBLE and now BatmanLE. Just love all 3 themes. Add in Lyman and its an automatic!

I'd consider buying anything Lyman is involved in, then it comes down to theme, layout, designer. Borg tops that list for me.

If Lyman really is "assisting" on getting Kiss updated then no worries and just hang in there, it'll happen.

-10
#49 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

BTW, what exactly is unfinished on Kiss? The cities still do nothing, right? I always thought it was weird they put those in there without any purpose....had there not been a city selection, no one would know about it, and no one could complain. Anything massively obvious besides the cities?

Nope. If they had never included the cities in the first place everybody would think this game is finished.

And yet grown men and screaming in anguish, writhing in emotional agony, and soiling their game rooms with first world problem tears.

Goddamn people, hold it together. You are making middle aged middle class spectacles of yourselves.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

BTW, what exactly is unfinished on Kiss? The cities still do nothing, right? I always thought it was weird they put those in there without any purpose....had there not been a city selection, no one would know about it, and no one could complain. Anything massively obvious besides the cities?

Cities do nothing, it's impossible to light the big inserts for each of the band members. The modes are completely boring, it's just hit the lit shot with no real "mission". There are a ton of bugs that you can read about in the kiss code thread.

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