(Topic ID: 247951)

Stern Jurassic Park or Willy Wonka?


By DarthSinex

55 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 305 posts
  • 103 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 hours ago by jorant
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which pin is better if you have kids?”

  • Willy Wonka JJP 127 votes
    29%
  • Jurassic Park Stern 317 votes
    71%

(444 votes)

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There are 305 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 12 days ago

Sucks the only Wonka I've got to play has, brace yourselves, super week flippers Seriously I'm not even shitting you, my god.
But anyway, I can't give it a full review because of that fact, as you couldn't even make those 2 tunnel shots up in the right corner really. Basically just forced to hit that left ramp over and over & ramps. It was a tourny anyway so it wasn't a full explore of the machine.
It was a bit confusing, but I only got a couple games on it which happens. I still have a bit of hope for it but goddamn the audio is as bad as described. Just ear bleeding....worse than WOZ or the godfdamn high pitched noise in LOTR.

JP I have a bunch of time on and it's a ton of fun. My brother is coming in town this weekend so I thk we'll get to put some good time on it and 2 sets of eyes will help.

#252 12 days ago

I may have to go Wonka std over JP, since most are choosing JP. I like to zIg, while the market zags ...Nah who am I kidding? I’m going for a JP prem! Should be just like JP pro but with more dino rage. First we get a SoR and then DinoRage. Next up (after Elvira) is JawsoRage, I hope, anyways (fingers & toes crossed) . Praying it is a Brian Eddie game too - for the win!

#253 11 days ago

NinjaTurtles o’ Rage?

#254 9 days ago

Had to change my vote from Wonka to JP.
I own both and JP is an Adventure which draws me in every game.
10k for Wonka
$5800 for JP pro

JP! I would never have guessed that in the beginning.

Feeling Lucky I own both

#255 9 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Had to change my vote from Wonka to JP.
I own both and JP is an Adventure which draws me in every game.
10k for Wonka
$5800 for JP pro
JP! I would never have guessed that in the beginning.
Feeling Lucky I own both

I completely ignored the price difference in my review, but you are right. The difference is substantial and worth considering.

#256 7 days ago

I own both (Wonka SE and jp pro) and I prefer Wonka, but both are fun games that I'm glad I own.
People hit Wonka for theme integration, but other than the words on translight that say Jurassic Park, I don't know how you can really call this a Jurassic Park themed game. It's more like a dinosaur cartoon themed game. No clips, no callouts (except for nedry chuckle) from the movie, really odd.

Both games are great shooters, JP feels a lot more linear. I haven't quite figured out all the rules for both games yet. My high score on jp is a little over 600mil, Wonka 4 mil, factory settings. Both games have been trouble free with only minor adjustments needed.

Theme integration: Wonka
Sound: Wonka
Variability: Wonka
Artwork: JP (Wonka is cut and paste art
Fun factor: tie, maybe slight edge to Wonka.
Lighting: Wonka
Depth: Wonka, but jp code still evolving
Innovation/toys: Wonka (JP has none really)
Screen animations: Wonka.
Flow: tie

#257 7 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I own both (Wonka SE and jp pro) and I prefer Wonka, but both are fun games that I'm glad I own.
People hit Wonka for theme integration, but other than the words on translight that say Jurassic Park, I don't know how you can really call this a Jurassic Park themed game. It's more like a dinosaur cartoon themed game. No clips, no callouts (except for nedry chuckle) from the movie, really odd.
Both games are great shooters, JP feels a lot more linear. I haven't quite figured out all the rules for both games yet. My high score on jp is a little over 600mil, Wonka 4 mil, factory settings. Both games have been trouble free with only minor adjustments needed.
Theme integration: Wonka
Sound: Wonka
Variability: Wonka
Artwork: JP (Wonka is cut and paste art
Fun factor: tie, maybe slight edge to Wonka.
Lighting: Wonka
Depth: Wonka, but jp code still evolving
Innovation/toys: Wonka (JP has none really)
Screen animations: Wonka.
Flow: tie

I wonder if your opinions will change with JP Premium? Particularly fun and toys.

#258 7 days ago
Quoted from phoenixpin:

I wonder if your opinions will change with JP Premium? Particularly fun and toys.

They might.

#259 7 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

other than the words on translight that say Jurassic Park, I don't know how you can really call this a Jurassic Park themed game. It's more like a dinosaur cartoon themed game. No clips, no callouts (except for nedry chuckle) from the movie, really odd.

This where people confuse true theme integration with audiovisual dressing. JP2 gameplay is navigating the truck around Isla Nublar to round up dinos that escaped from the park, rescuing staff, putting raptors in the pen, busting them out, etc. If that's not Jurassic Park, I don't know what is. Oh, there aren't movie clips on the screen? Then it's just a generic dinosaur game.

#260 7 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

This where people confuse true theme integration with audiovisual dressing. JP2 gameplay is navigating the truck around Isla Nublar to round up dinos that escaped from the park, rescuing staff, putting raptors in the pen, busting them out, etc. If that's not Jurassic Park, I don't know what is. Oh, there aren't movie clips on the screen? Then it's just a generic dinosaur game.

There is nothing in the game from the movies. No call outs, no video. For those who love the movie(s), how could you not be disappointed. Doesn’t mean the game is bad from a playing perspective, but it could be better if it had those assets. Casual players who step up to the game want to see Jurassic Park, they will have no idea how the rules might relate to it as you state. Why are those assets not in the game?

#261 7 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I own both (Wonka SE and jp pro) and I prefer Wonka, but both are fun games that I'm glad I own.
People hit Wonka for theme integration, but other than the words on translight that say Jurassic Park, I don't know how you can really call this a Jurassic Park themed game. It's more like a dinosaur cartoon themed game. No clips, no callouts (except for nedry chuckle) from the movie, really odd.
Both games are great shooters, JP feels a lot more linear. I haven't quite figured out all the rules for both games yet. My high score on jp is a little over 600mil, Wonka 4 mil, factory settings. Both games have been trouble free with only minor adjustments needed.
Theme integration: Wonka
Sound: Wonka
Variability: Wonka
Artwork: JP (Wonka is cut and paste art
Fun factor: tie, maybe slight edge to Wonka.
Lighting: Wonka
Depth: Wonka, but jp code still evolving
Innovation/toys: Wonka (JP has none really)
Screen animations: Wonka.
Flow: tie

Chipping playfields: both. Tie.

#262 7 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Doesn’t mean the game is bad from a playing perspective, but it could be better if it had those assets.

But it also "could not."

Quoted from Lermods:

Casual players who step up to the game want to see Jurassic Park, they will have no idea how the rules might relate to it as you state.

Why do people always put so much stock in casual players? I've never thought of how good a machine is, or "ranked" it against another and factored in what Joe Nobodyfuckingcares thinks of it.

#263 7 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

But it also "could not."

Why do people always put so much stock in casual players? I've never thought of how good a machine is, or "ranked" it against another and factored in what Joe Nobodyfuckingcares thinks of it.

#264 7 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

There is nothing in the game from the movies.

Right out of the gate, patently false. There may be nothing cut & pasted from the movie, but there countless elements borrowed from the film and integrated into the game. Remove the logo and everyone will identify it as a Jurassic Park game. Press the start button, see the helicopter arrive at the island and hear the full original theme song.

Quoted from Lermods:

No call outs, no video.

There are Nedry call outs. Would you rather have video clips, or custom animated scenes that mimic the movie and integrate with gameplay? Hint: you can't afford both.

Quoted from Lermods:

For those who love the movie(s), how could you not be disappointed. Doesn’t mean the game is bad from a playing perspective, but it could be better if it had those assets. Casual players who step up to the game want to see Jurassic Park, they will have no idea how the rules might relate to it as you state.

If they love the movie so much they'd rather see clips than play a game based on the movie, I guess they can watch the movie instead. You can't please everyone. I'll take pleasing pinball players over Jurassic Park superfans (do those even exist?).

Batman Arkham City is the Guinness world record highest rated superhero game of all time, from a series of 9 games over a decade that grossed around a billion dollars. Guess what? Zero movie clips. If you want to watch a movie, watch a movie.

Quoted from Lermods:

Why are those assets not in the game?

Money. Would you rather have movie clips, or four ramps, three flippers, a moving ball-eating t-rex, rotating truck, spinning copter blades, and a raptor pen with a motorized gate and up-post? Hint: you can't afford both.

I get it, you're a mod guy. You want to see as much theme crammed into a game as humanly possible. Thank god KME designs games for the players.

#265 7 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Right out of the gate, patently false. There may be nothing cut & pasted from the movie, but there countless elements borrowed from the film and integrated into the game. Remove the logo and everyone will identify it as a Jurassic Park game. Press the start button, see the helicopter arrive at the island and hear the full original theme song.

There are Nedry call outs. Would you rather have video clips, or custom animated scenes that mimic the movie and integrate with gameplay? Hint: you can't afford both.

If they love the movie so much they'd rather see clips than play a game based on the movie, I guess they can watch the movie instead. You can't please everyone. I'l take pleasing pinball players over Jurassic Park superfans (do those even exist?).
Batman Arkham City is the Guinness world record highest rated superhero game of all time, from a series of 9 games over a decade that grossed around a billion dollars. Guess what? Zero movie clips. If you want to watch a movie, watch a movie.

Money. Would you rather have movie clips, or four ramps, three flippers, a moving ball-eating t-rex, rotating truck, spinning copter blades, and a raptor pen with a motorized gate and up-post? Hint: you can't afford both.
I get it, you're a mod guy. You want to see as much theme crammed into a game as humanly possible. Thank god KME designs games for the players.

Has nothing to do with being a mod guy. Why can't someone just express their honest view without be labeled in some way or think there is some other motive. Not sure why this is touching such nerves. The game lacks movie assets, whether it's callouts or video clips, and for me personally, it's a detraction. Others may, and likely do, feel differently and I respect that. The game is fun and shoots well, and I'm glad to be an owner.

#266 7 days ago

I'm personally glad they took an original alternate adventure approach... While I like the characters from the first film, the monotony of the clips would wear very quickly... You could only hear Alan Grant say, "they do move in herds" before the start of multiball only so many times... Akin to wanting to punch Yoda on SW after draining

#267 7 days ago

T-Rex vs. Willy the candy maker. I think T-Rex wins the fight fairly easily in a manner of seconds, so my choice is JP.

-7
#268 7 days ago

I'd probably vote JP if it was an actual Jurassic Park game....Stern screwed up the license and created a dinosaur cartoon game with the Jurassic park logo and theme song....very disappointing for a game that had huge potential...

#269 6 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Has nothing to do with being a mod guy. Why can't someone just express their honest view without be labeled in some way or think there is some other motive. Not sure why this is touching such nerves. The game lacks movie assets, whether it's callouts or video clips, and for me personally, it's a detraction. Others may, and likely do, feel differently and I respect that. The game is fun and shoots well, and I'm glad to be an owner.

To be honest, I'm not sure what's worse - Stern making a Jurrassic Park game but not paying for the proper assets or JJP making a wonka game and recreating what they believe is Wonka leaving us with an absolute mess of a game. The excuse of we don't want to see the same clips over and over could be the DUMBEST excuse I've heard in some time (and some pinsiders are actually falling for it....hilarious).

Hate to say it but Stern/JP has been an easier pill to swallow for me bc they just told you upfront - we're cheap get over it. Jurassic also plays much better than wonka from a full package perspective (as Wonka's code, integration, music is all disappointing).

For the guy saying Stern Jurassic Park is truly a representation of JP b/c they are rounding up dinosaurs - you've obviously missed the boat completely. Stern JP is far from Jurassic Park but they've included enough to make a sloppy connection and Pinside will just help it further with custom sound and speech. But let's not try to defend it as truly JP. That title remains with, no question about it - Data East

#270 6 days ago

I don't mind that JP doesn't have movie assets.

Games like SM, Iron Man, Tron, ST, LotR use great assets (callouts etc.) but we also have a game like TWD which is just a generic Zombie game with no film assets and no callouts and it's still great (edit true the call outs have been modified into the game, but imo the pin would still be great with stock assets that it shipped with just my opinion). I mean a generic martin game AFM is the best with no assets from a movie. Have a game like SW or Munsters with more assets than JP but the game is not great (to me) because of the rules or layout etc.

I like to judge the whole game and not just if it's got assets and if a game doesn't have assets like TWD it can still be outstanding.

I will say that callouts and assets do make sometimes a better game with ST (I like the movie quotes) and sorely missing when you see SM Vault edition is lacking next to the movie SM pins.

#271 6 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

To be honest, I'm not sure what's worse - Stern making a Jurrassic Park game but not paying for the proper assets or JJP making a wonka game and recreating what they believe is Wonka leaving us with an absolute mess of a game. The excuse of we don't want to see the same clips over and over could be the DUMBEST excuse I've heard in some time (and some pinsiders are actually falling for it....hilarious).

I need more time on Wonka and JP to make any sort of informed opinion, but to say that everybody is demanding more movie assets is just not true. If the game IS missing something, to me it is not that. My only concern re: Wonka as a home game right now is it might be "too easy" for me. I am not worried that I don't get to see and hear all time greats like "Cheer up Charlie" on loop.

"More" of some stuff would be nice, and I think losing David Thiel was a big blow to the sound package.

I wish that Wonka for ~$6500 was a lot closer to me, I would probably move my HOU LoTR to give that one a whirl... hmmm

-2
#272 6 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Right out of the gate, patently false. There may be nothing cut & pasted from the movie, but there countless elements borrowed from the film and integrated into the game. Remove the logo and everyone will identify it as a Jurassic Park game. Press the start button, see the helicopter arrive at the island and hear the full original theme song.

There are Nedry call outs. Would you rather have video clips, or custom animated scenes that mimic the movie and integrate with gameplay? Hint: you can't afford both.

If they love the movie so much they'd rather see clips than play a game based on the movie, I guess they can watch the movie instead. You can't please everyone. I'll take pleasing pinball players over Jurassic Park superfans (do those even exist?).
Batman Arkham City is the Guinness world record highest rated superhero game of all time, from a series of 9 games over a decade that grossed around a billion dollars. Guess what? Zero movie clips. If you want to watch a movie, watch a movie.

Stern JP is not a true Jurassic Park game in any stretch of imagination. They could've named it Dino hunt or something like that and nobody would know the difference. They could've done something spectacular with this licence but they failed miserably. Only thing they got it right is the theme song and that's it. But that doesn't mean it's a bad game but c'mon man, are you telling me that you really see this game as a Jurassic Park pin??

And your Batman Arkham City reasoning makes zero sense. The game is Batman Arkham City. Not Batman begins,Dark Knight,etc It wasn't based off of the movie properties. And they made all that money cuz you get to play as batman and fight his real villains and had the right characters.

#273 6 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

For the guy saying Stern Jurassic Park is truly a representation of JP b/c they are rounding up dinosaurs - you've obviously missed the boat completely.

And you missed the quote completely. That's just one of many aspects in which the game nails the vibe and theme of the film. The only thing it's missing? Cut & pasted audio/video clips. I guess you'd prefer GOTG part two? I mean, that game shoots well and has fun scoring rules, but from a theme integration standpoint, could not feel more generic. It's just a colored arrow game with movie clips on loop. Yawn.

#274 6 days ago
Quoted from V4Vendetta:

are you telling me that you really see this game as a Jurassic Park pin??

Yes, 100%. I'm just not hung up on this movie clip thing you guys have a boner for. If the gameplay was generic but they threw in a bunch of lazy clips, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. All the monkeys would be jumping up & down, pointing at the moving pictures. Take my money!

#275 6 days ago
Quoted from V4Vendetta:

Only thing they got it right is the theme song and that's it.

The only thing they COPIED was the theme song. They got a ton of stuff right. The game feels like its own fleshed-out world with graphics tailored to gameplay. It's a cohesive package. They adapted lots of elements from the film in ways that feel integral to the game, not slapped on top of it. If they included the actual clip of the t-rex chasing the jeep, it would stick out like a sore thumb. The game version of that scene is much better for the game.

I just hope none of you guys ever pursue a career in art direction.

#276 6 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

And you missed the quote completely. That's just one of many aspects in which the game nails the vibe and theme of the film. The only thing it's missing? Cut & pasted audio/video clips. I guess you'd prefer GOTG part two? I mean, that game shoots well and has fun scoring rules, but from a theme integration standpoint, could not feel more generic. It's just a colored arrow game with movie clips on loop. Yawn.

Yancy. You're lost. I don't know what to tell you if you think JP Stern is truly Jurassic Park.

#277 6 days ago
Quoted from V4Vendetta:

Stern JP is not a true Jurassic Park game in any stretch of imagination. They could've named it Dino hunt or something like that and nobody would know the difference. They could've done something spectacular with this licence but they failed miserably. Only thing they got it right is the theme song and that's it. But that doesn't mean it's a bad game but c'mon man, are you telling me that you really see this game as a Jurassic Park pin??
And your Batman Arkham City reasoning makes zero sense. The game is Batman Arkham City. Not Batman begins,Dark Knight,etc It wasn't based off of the movie properties. And they made all that money cuz you get to play as batman and fight his real villains and had the right characters.

If Stern's JP had licensed movie and actor audio assets it probably wouldn't be as creative. Sure movie clips would be playing but would that be better then custom animations? I don't think so. JJP Pirates proved that a licensed theme without all assets can still be successful.

One thing I believe hurts JP are the custom callouts, they are not good in my opinion. Stern should have paid for at least one of the original Jurassic Park actors to do custom callouts. JJP did this with Pirates by hiring Kevin McNally who was in all 5 Pirates films and it worked out great for the game. Now I don't think Jeff Goldblum would have done great callouts ("oh yes, a multiball" lol) but Sam Neill or Wayne Knight could have pulled them off well.

#278 6 days ago

I think licensing costs are making it difficult to tackle games in ways we're all accustomed to. JP feels like a game that exists in the JP world, but it's not JP the movie with cust scenes we want. It's more like a video game in my opinion. And I'm Ok with that. Especially if that allowed Stern the ability to get licensing for the song. The game feels great to play (great shots) and the story/modes are consistent with an "adventure" in the JP world. I think it was cleverly done.

#279 6 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I don't know what to tell you if you think JP Stern is truly Jurassic Park.

That's cool, I don't need you to tell me anything. Game looks and plays great; I ordered a premium.

#280 6 days ago

I think TWIP talks about the way the industry is changing with regards to licensing in a recent article. At the end of the day, Pinball isn't very lucrative and it will continue to be a niche sport/market until it gains wider appeal. If we want better theme integration going forward, the industry should try and increase its audience by appealing to people outside the 40+ male market.

#281 6 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

That's cool, I don't need you to tell me anything. Game looks and plays great; I ordered a premium.

I'm in on a pro or prem - can't decide but not until PF is fixed.

Game is still very good so I agree there. It's just not JP.

#282 6 days ago

Can't we agree Stern's JP is just Stern's JP? Clearly it is not the original movie. More like a b side between sequals. I okay with that concept.

More creativity. Less rehash. I wish this were done more often. Heck even Munsters could be more interesting if it was more like a lost storyline than " hey watch these old clips every game".

#283 6 days ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Can't we agree Stern's JP is just Stern's JP? Clearly it is not the original movie. More like a b side between sequals. I okay with that concept.
More creativity. Less rehash. I wish this were done more often. Heck even Munsters could be more interesting if it was more like a lost storyline than " hey watch these old clips every game".

It's the same thing Stern did with Walking Dead. There are no characters from the show and it doesn't really follow the storyline or feature any show clips. I think it's for the better being a somewhat generic Zombie killing game.

#284 5 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

That's cool, I don't need you to tell me anything. Game looks and plays great; I ordered a premium.

I never said it was a bad game. I only stated that it feels like a generic dinosaur game, not Jurassic Park game.

Quoted from yancy:

I just hope none of you guys ever pursue a career in art direction.

Don't know what to tell you but I've been the art director for one of the biggest luxury packaging corporation in world for past decade. lol.

#285 5 days ago

I can only assume you guys designed the new Tool CD package with a video screen.
tool.jpg

#286 5 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Yes, 100%. I'm just not hung up on this movie clip thing you guys have a boner for. If the gameplay was generic but they threw in a bunch of lazy clips, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. All the monkeys would be jumping up & down, pointing at the moving pictures. Take my money!

100% this - GOTG is the worst game codewise in my opinion. I was actually so stoked when I heard JP wasn't going to have movie clips. Movie clips eliminate your ability to be creative with your code. Deadpool is a masterpiece in this regard. The game would've been horrible if it was just clips from the movies.

Those that think different, give a few examples of how you would've integrated clips from the movie into the game and made it interesting without it being so boring like GOTG where you hit the lit arrow while a clip plays and I'll change my mind.

#287 5 days ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

100% this - GOTG is the worst game codewise in my opinion. I was actually so stoked when I heard JP wasn't going to have movie clips. Movie clips eliminate your ability to be creative with your code. Deadpool is a masterpiece in this regard. The game would've been horrible if it was just clips from the movies.
Those that think different, give a few examples of how you would've integrated clips from the movie into the game and made it interesting without it being so boring like GOTG where you hit the lit arrow while a clip plays and I'll change my mind.

The cartoon scenes are repetitive too. Great scene here that I'm sure a coder could be creative with.

#288 5 days ago

First of all, I agree with you. The game is better and more creative for having gone their own direction with it.

For argument’s sake though, one might offer up Batman 66 as the ideal example of using media clips for the betterment of the game. It does make that game better. BUT, it is not the case that it would ALWAYS make any game better.

I think it depends on:
- how beloved the property is (for example I own a POTC and prefer that there are no actors scenes)
- the nature of the property. For example, I think for comedies like Big Lebowski or Batman 66 you’d especially want the clips. For big action movies like Transformers I don’t need (and likely don’t want) movie clips.
- how clever the ruleset is to involve you in the game when you don’t have assets. In this case, Elwin had such an awesome clever approach to a journey based pin with multiple mode pathways, video game/board game collect the dinosaurs vibe, and overall depth that makes me really happy with the package and wary that had movie clips been available, the ruleset would have gone a much more boring way (like GOTG, which is still a better than average pin but, in my opinion, still not an all time great).

#289 5 days ago

Here's my very strong argument FOR the use of movie clips in a movie-themed pinball game....my remastered version of Jurassic Park. But only if used creativity and only when used to compliment the action on the playfield. Nothing must get in the way of the game of pinball and if you can creativily enhance the experience for the player using clips, then it can create a fantastic immersive experience.

This is just a short clip but you can see how I integrate the scene in the movie with the action on the playfield, even syncing the shaker motor to match the action on screen. All this combined with a killer light show, will give you the player, the most immersive game of pinball you've ever played.

Now I've been using movie clips in my games since 2011. In fact I was the first to use a colour LCD on the backbox, when I added full colour movie clips to my version of Stern's Iron Man. I can tell you now that no one at Stern or Jersey Jack knows how to properly use this asset. You can't just play a boring clip for no reason! Only Heighway Pinball's Alien (which so happended to be the compnay I worked for) had any clue how to use movie clips properly.

For the past 10 years I've coded about 60 pinball games, including rewritting the complete code for games such as Transformers, Indiana Jones, Tron Legacy, Iron Man, Star Trek, Spiderman....and I've added movie clips to all of them, fully integrated for a much more exciting and immersive gameplay expeience. The kind of pinball games you all want but no one is making.

If you think I'm full of shit, you can download and play my version of Jurassic Park by downloading it from my website and see for yourself. Yes it's virtual pinball but it's a decent demonstration of how pinball in 2019 should be when using a bit of creative imagineering. You can also download Jaws, Robocop, Iron Man and many other games I've created.

https://speak1970.wixsite.com/slamspinballemporium

I know excatly the kind of games you guys want because I've been making them for the past 10 years. I am looking for work so Stern if you're hiring...

I have been approached by a brand new company who are about to announce their existance so I'm hoping I can make it back into the industry. But in the meantime, I need an outlet for my creativity and virtual pinball is a pretty decent one.

#290 5 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

This is just a short clip but you can see how I integrate the scene in the movie with the action on the playfield, even syncing the shaker motor to match the action on screen. All this combined with a killer light show, will give you the player, the most immersive game of pinball you've ever played.

Gotta be honest, I find this the opposite of immersive. I want to get lost in a game, get in the zone. Movie clips take me out of a game. The clips in your example don't match the look & feel of the game at all. And they're so dark I can barely tell what's going on half the time. Reminds me of some of the Tron & Transformers digitized movie clips. Custom animations are vivid and (usually) complement the art on a game.

I appreciate that you've put a lot of work into it, and that you love it. It's just not for me.

#291 5 days ago

So I just got back from finally playing both these games on a route. After playing each, if I were going to buy one I would probably go Wonka. With you wanting it for your kid, I'd say JP still. My thoughts on each...

JP pro was pretty cool. Good lighting, good animations, and sounds. It was much easier to see where to shoot with easier on screen direction. It looks more packed than it really is though on the pro. The raptor cage is fake and doesn't really interact, the Trex was cool, but static, and I didn't really recall anything else toy wise that was memorable. Does the helicopter spin on the pro? I never noticed it, but I assume it did. The ramps are all pretty cool, and the game flows great. Overall, it was fun, but I think the premium is the way to go here with better ball interaction.

Wonka was gorgeous. The playfield has more going on than jp, or so it seems. The secret hole gobstopper was cool, and the wonkavision putting pics up on screen was cool. The sounds and clips were great, and I heard more movie quotes than I expected. The screen graphics were confusing though. I like the idea of the factory, but it will take some time getting used to what to look for. Wonka does feel like a deeper game as of now, and that's important for home use.

Overall, I kept wanting to play Wonka to find more secrets, but JP has that adrenaline rush feel obviously. I would buy either one in premium/le, but if you want a JP, I'd definitely bump up to the premium. Both are looking great, and I really don't think either one will disappoint. Great job to both designers.

#292 5 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

Here's my very strong argument FOR the use of movie clips in a movie-themed pinball game....my remastered version of Jurassic Park. But only if used creativity and only when used to compliment the action on the playfield. Nothing must get in the way of the game of pinball and if you can creativily enhance the experience for the player using clips, then it can create a fantastic immersive experience.

This is just a short clip but you can see how I integrate the scene in the movie with the action on the playfield, even syncing the shaker motor to match the action on screen. All this combined with a killer light show, will give you the player, the most immersive game of pinball you've ever played.
Now I've been using movie clips in my games since 2011. In fact I was the first to use a colour LCD on the backbox, when I added full colour movie clips to my version of Stern's Iron Man. I can tell you now that no one at Stern or Jersey Jack knows how to properly use this asset. You can't just play a boring clip for no reason! Only Heighway Pinball's Alien (which so happended to be the compnay I worked for) had any clue how to use movie clips properly.
For the past 10 years I've coded about 60 pinball games, including rewritting the complete code for games such as Transformers, Indiana Jones, Tron Legacy, Iron Man, Star Trek, Spiderman....and I've added movie clips to all of them, fully integrated for a much more exciting and immersive gameplay expeience. The kind of pinball games you all want but no one is making.
If you think I'm full of shit, you can download and play my version of Jurassic Park by downloading it from my website and see for yourself. Yes it's virtual pinball but it's a decent demonstration of how pinball in 2019 should be when using a bit of creative imagineering. You can also download Jaws, Robocop, Iron Man and many other games I've created.
https://speak1970.wixsite.com/slamspinballemporium
I know excatly the kind of games you guys want because I've been making them for the past 10 years. I am looking for work so Stern if you're hiring...
I have been approached by a brand new company who are about to announce their existance so I'm hoping I can make it back into the industry. But in the meantime, I need an outlet for my creativity and virtual pinball is a pretty decent one.

Well done....too bad Stern didn't go in this direction....

#293 5 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:Here's my very strong argument FOR the use of movie clips in a movie-themed pinball game....my remastered version of Jurassic Park.

I love what Stern was able to do with Jurassic Park but freely admit your work here is really cool! I found the sound + clips tied to the shots was immersive and impressive.

#294 5 days ago

Case for Wonka

Stern's JP doesn't appear to be nearly as immersive as Wonka and it's disappointing to see once again a lack of detailed 3D molds, minus t-rex of course. The spinning helicopter on JP premium is literally a couple pieces of bare metal with stickers applied and exposed screw heads. Really? That's what Stern chooses to put on a $7.5k - $9k game? Then there's the tower, again a piece of metal with a few thin plastics screwed on. The "moving" raptor toy? Screws heads sticking out of it...So many items on Wonka are 3D molded and help create a more immersive world under glass. Combine that with the larger / more detailed display and a deeper ruleset and I would go with Wonka at this time.

Case for Stern's JJP

Stern's JP has a really cool toy on the premium / LE, that being the moving t-rex toy. The toy itself is detailed, picks up the ball, and tosses it around. The main toy on Wonka is a spinning hole...yup, a spinning hole that reveals itself as it turns around. There's a giant Gobstopper toy but it doesn't interact with the ball or player and easily forgotten about once you start playing the game. Can't comment on the Wonkavator ball lock as I've yet to play an LE. If you want a pin that has a wow factor toy then Stern's JP premium / LE will check that box.

Case against both

The voice actor callouts are rather terrible on both games.

#295 5 days ago

I’m honestly not in agreement that Wonka has a deeper ruleset, but maybe we differ on the meaning of deep. I agree it is deeper than many games out there, but it’s no WOZ or POTC and I’d actually say JP is deeper than Wonka.

My reasoning:
1/3 of the central inserts are related to playfield multipliers, there are only 4 main modes, bonus is related to a single thing (Wonka bars), and all mini wizard modes are linearly achieved mainly through either the first freebie golden ticket (basically awarded for generally ‘playing well’) or by scoring enough shots on various multiballs.

I still like Wonka but not seeing how it wins out on depth.

#296 5 days ago
Quoted from phoenixpin:

I’m honestly not in agreement that Wonka has a deeper ruleset, but maybe we differ on the meaning of deep. I agree it is deeper than many games out there, but it’s no WOZ or POTC and I’d actually say JP is deeper than Wonka.
My reasoning:
1/3 of the central inserts are related to playfield multipliers, there are only 4 main modes, bonus is related to a single thing (Wonka bars), and all mini wizard modes are linearly achieved mainly through either the first freebie golden ticket (basically awarded for generally ‘playing well’) or by scoring enough shots on various multiballs.
I still like Wonka but not seeing how it wins out on depth.

I would say Wonka is deeper than JP in part due to the golden ticket collect rule feature where collecting 5 golden tickets unlocks the games super wizard mode. Collecting golden tickets can only be done by completing a certain objective within a mode versus just starting X number of modes. Having the option to collect items in a game to get to a games super wizard mode is a really cool hook and one that gives it legs for years to come. JJP has always done a great job with having multiple layers to their games rulesets which I think helps give Wonka the edge over JP in regards to rules depth.

However, JP may have the better modes as they appear more immersive then a majority of Wonka modes that have video clips playing on loop not even synced to the movie.

Capture (resized).JPG

#297 4 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Gotta be honest, I find this the opposite of immersive. I want to get lost in a game, get in the zone. Movie clips take me out of a game. The clips in your example don't match the look & feel of the game at all. And they're so dark I can barely tell what's going on half the time. Reminds me of some of the Tron & Transformers digitized movie clips. Custom animations are vivid and (usually) complement the art on a game.
I appreciate that you've put a lot of work into it, and that you love it. It's just not for me.

The clips are so dark you can barely tell what's going on half the time?

holy shit Yancy - I swear you have to be trolling b/c you can't be serious. Have you ever seen Jurassic Park? The Jurassic Park clips don't match the look......of Jurassic Park pinball?

We're about to hit a new low on this topic. I can understand someone saying that they went everything original - those people don't truly appreciate JP which is fine and they want something brand new - that's cool not for me but I can appreciate that. What I can't understand is the clips of the game don't match the look of the same GD pinball game that it shares a name with Yancy.

#298 4 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Have you ever seen Jurassic Park?

Dude, we've all fucking seen it 100 times. Not all of us have clean the load of the screen after each viewing and tuck ourselves into out JP sheets at night.

#299 4 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Dude, we've all fucking seen it 100 times. Not all of us have clean the load of the screen after each viewing and tuck ourselves into out JP sheets at night.

If it wasn't clear, the question wasn't directed toward you. You haven't said anything crazy (yet) on this topic.

#300 4 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

The clips are so dark you can barely tell what's going on half the time?

Correct. The video he posted featured a lot of nighttime film clips which look great in a theater, but are squint-worthy at best next to a brightly colored game with blinking lights.

Quoted from delt31:

The Jurassic Park clips don't match the look......of Jurassic Park pinball?

You tell me which display matches the look of the game:
DataEastJP.png
Stern JP.png

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