I think Stern would re-run anything as long as they can get the license and make money on it. I doubt Mustang had much if any influence on it. People have been asking for a reissue of IM for years, Stern finally decided the costs for re-designing and re-releasing made sense. And they've hinted that we may see other titles from the "Vault" re-released. The market and resurgence in the public's interest in pinball is responsible for this, not Mustang.

Dupe, sorry.

IM is awesome, but a real butt kicker and not for everyone for sure.

Under 200 Pinsiders have IM on their want list. This will not be like MM, which 700+ Pinsiders have on their want lists and is the number #1 rated game of all time. IM will do well on routes and will be bought for that purpose also. Maybe Stern will sell 300-400 of these. No?

If you get an IM though, you will get a game that will always challenge a good player and keep the "one more game" thought in your mind when you play. Good for tournaments and leagues, also. Will not go up in value, but will still be a good reseller and trade baiter too.

Didn't have it on my wantlist, but just bought it because it's a great game at a good price.

Amazingly, not all people that buy pinball machines are on pinside.

Slightly less amazingly, not everyone here keeps their wish list up to date or cares.

If Stern gets around to re-running LOTR, it will be interesting to see how much they can improve on the blur-o-vision playfield printing. Of course it'd be incredible if instead they hired an artist to replace the entire photoshop design package with actual art, but that's probably never going to happen.

[EDIT: Oh yeah, and perhaps they could step up the voice sample quality as well ...]

Today is my birthday.....Order # 77364!

WTB: AC/DC prem in the Northeast for 5k so you can fund your new IM. Easy sale... I'll pick it up this weekend.

The full picture of the cab looks like the original model. I don't see RED T-MOLDING or the new backbox design?

That is the old pic.

This is the case for collectible items like beanie babies where there isn't much value difference between each model. But with pinball machines, you don't sell more because you make less. Some games are hits and some are not. Rolling Stones came out around the same time as IM and is ranked #285. The game is not considered collectible. People like IM and are willing to buy it.

There was a false scarcity in the last few years that convinced people that these toys were appreciating assets. I'm happy to see that end.

Now this is a "Throwback Thursday" move that beats the heck out of all the tbt posts of old pics on Facebook!

I'll take the midwest territory.

What's the deal? I'm okay with IM remake. I'm not cool with the added extras. Now if Stern is smart they would sell these extras to those of us who want to upgrade our IM games. Id buy speaker kits and a new translite. Look this remake has the potential to hurt Stern quite a bit as it may tick off their loyal customer base.

Who knows. I just wish they would remake these without the upgrades namely new decals, custom speaker panel and new translite

You are right, but it is a good reference on people's future purchases. Take a look at the "most wanted games list" view on Pinside and you may not agree with it for your own purchases, but if you had to summarize collectors wants it is pretty accurate.

I would pay 4800 for an AVLE, but not IM.

Meh, been there done that. Congrats to those who want to own IM, I bought NIB the first time around and enjoyed it the time I had it, but bring on The Walking Dead

Automobile manufacturers re-release cars every year with additional features, but it doesn't piss anyone off because people aren't expecting to make a profit off their car.

Pinball is no different - the second you open that box you devalued your pinball, and should expect it to devalue further the more you use it, and the older it gets. The past few years have not been reality.

I've never purchased a NIB and don't know where to begin or exactly who I should buy from. Any suggestions?

Hmmm NIB is the wrong term, HUO then. Sorry Hemi, I just hit the confirm purchase button for $5095 w/free shipping which is more than I paid for my IM. I may keep both an Original IM Pro and an IM Vaulted Edition.

I'm sure I'll be using the pinball refinery but my impatience got the best of me. Order ID# 1042.

heck, maybe TF and AV will be the true collectables some day after all

Seriously though. I feel for the guy that just paid $7K for their NIB and feel for those that may lose some money. On the flip side, I'm happy for pinball in general as things are gradually become more affordable and desired games are more likely going to be able to make it into the hands of enthusiast..

You are close to JJ and I believe Trent so you could try there. Best bet is to just start calling distributors and get the best price. I started down the loyalty path thinking I would get better pricing after making several NIB purchases and found out I'm still getting the same price as the average Joe so loyalty has gone out the window. Shop around and save!

As much as I would like to see a SAM version of old Whitestar games like TSPP and LOTR with improved flippers and higher quality sound I doubt we'll see it happen due to the amount of work it would take to convert them to the newer system. Plus, the software designer for both games is at a competing company.

The only games I would think that they would remake at this point are IM and Tron. Especially since another Tron sequel is in the works. I would love to see SM remade, but doubt that would happen due to the new Spidey movies that are now out.

http://gameexchange.biz/products/iron-man-pinball-vault-edition

also in this thread is the refinery edition

http://pinballrefinery.com/

I've been around this hobby for a long, long time. And here's what I know...

Williams did the "limited, once we're done we're done!" business model. This resulted in so many places waiting for close outs to happen so they could get their machines cheaper, which meant less money for the B/W bottom line. Eventually, B/W decided that to sort of 'stick it to' those people who did the waiting, they were going to take a great game and purposely underproduce it, selling it only to those who essentially bought immediately.

Viola, we have Medieval Madness, a game that was worth more than NIB the day that it came out, and a game that B/W could have made lots more of had they not had to figure against the "guess how many of these we will sell" market.

It didn't work. Ops were angry, so they started to buy less machines because clearly (they felt) Williams didn't really care what they wanted. This led to lower and lower sales, and more and more clearance blow out specials.

When Gary took over Stern, they set up the factory in such a way that you could send down a LOTR followed immediately by a TSPP and then go right back to LOTR with minimal problems. This was a HUGE breakthrough - Now, Stern could effectively listen to their customers (the operators) while not overbuilding machines and needing to blow them out. Ops wouldn't feel ripped off buying TSPP NIB for $3,295 because next month they would blow them out for $2,000, they would know that the $3,295 price was what it would be today, tomorrow, or in a year from now if the game proved popular enough to keep making them.

Without this ability, during the time right before IM, Stern absolutely would have gone belly up. They met the market for the product that they were providing.

Which, by the way, until Jack came along wasn't a collectible. Jack saw the ability for it to be a collectible and convinced Stern to run LOTR LE years later, a run that Stern wasn't so sure about - it was a risk remaking a game with minimal upgrades and selling it for a price higher than it was supposed to cost. Supposedly, something with that relationship fractured over that game, and Jack went off to start his own company. Stern heard about the LE thing and thought they could jump on that to get the money from it before Jack could and started doing the same thing, which worked great for them. They had some hiccups along the way (Avatar LE being announced months after the machine came out in Pro, for instance), but it's clearly added to their business model.

But the Pro line was never meant to be a collectible. The LE line? Sure. But the Pro models are supposed to be out there taking quarters and getting new players to see what the heck pinball is anyway. If they want to, I'm certain they could run an IM down the line followed by an ACDC Premium followed by a Mustang LE with no problems.

It's the best manufacturing method for mass amounts of pinball machines period, and without it we wouldn't be here talking about Stern pinball machines at all. Pros are not "collectibles" unless they are collectible in the sense that you want to have some to play.

It will only an issue with me if they make the new code and lighting effects only work with the new machine and it's LEDs. Otherwise, IM for all!!!

I heard a few weeks ago that this was going to happen. I agree with Dan, I am happy with the game and the price I paid a year ago as long as I am eligible for a code update........ I'm still good.

Except IM was under 4k on its initial release....Now it will be about 5k.

This!

I bought my 2011 Camaro and then proceeded to watch Chevy alter the interior slightly, offer better radio packages, redesign the body ever so slightly, and offer different colors. Some of those items made me want the newer model, but others made me glad I had the older model.

I see the same thing with this.

If you have IM and are happy with it, no sweat.
If you have IM and were hoping to cash in on the resale market, oops.
If you don't have IM and wanted one (but hated to pay $5k+), score!

Uh, no, just means you have to sell a used game for cheaper then you bought it for, not the end of the world, this is how most hobbies work.

Hell, I would buy that! I doubt it's even a glimmer in Gary's eye, but if they did ...

Stern stated the code update is just bug fixes. There's no reason for it not to be released for the originals.

I created a down payment to purchase a Pinball Refinery version on our website. This will allow you to reserve your Pinball Refinery version of Ironman.

Here is the link.... http://pinballrefinery.com/store#!/~/product/category=8883565&id=37337980

Thanks,

Steve
Pinball Refinery

If you feel sorry enough to do something, and I'll extend this challenge to anyone buying a NIB one that would have paid a bit more for it, the LTG Update is just about over, say, "Thanks for helping to create the collector's market so we can get great new games like IM!" and toss in a bit of coin:

http://igg.me/p/743018/x/7009882

Maybe if LTG can get enough donations, he'll add an IM to the line up there!

Where does it say there is new code and lighting effects? It looks like the only thing "new" in the lighting is they replaced the incandescent with LEDS.

Well, it's good for those that were wishing to get NIB IM although it comes with a 1K price bump from the original price.

I really hope this gets rid of the NIB hoarders. It is so sad to me to think about how many perfectly functioning games are locked up doing no good and being no fun to anyone just because some collector is trying to cash in years from now.

Might be nothing more than just making the LEDs fade properly with the same lightshow as before.

It says that there will be bug fixes that have been reported in the letter Gary sent out.

I'd expect...

- Updated Instant Info (which was already done)
- Earnable Extra Ball
- Better LED code so the thing doesn't ghost like crazy (like the originals do)

I'm hoping for

- Skill shot closer to Metallica (The only thing the game is missing!)

I'm not hoping for anything else.

If they did re-run LOTR, I wonder if it would be the same Whitestar system, or be upgraded to SAM?

Do they have tons of WhiteStar boards lying around? I would think it would be upgraded to SAM.

Thoughts?

Exactly. If there's a bunch of NIBs and nobody is left to play them, how exactly would that work? If people wait too long, the current large group of people wanting to play pinball will be much smaller.

The games have value precisely because there's a group of people out there waiting to play them.

Wasn't LOTR LE created in 2009? Wasn't WhiteStar over and done with by then? (I should really look this up )

EDIT: Whitestar II board

Yes, the 2009 LOTR was still WhiteStar....but SAM was newer then. They may have had leftover stock.

It's 2014 now, which is why I'm curious.

They were always nothing but own-to-play commercial gaming machines. A bunch of noob "collectors" hasn't really changed that. (In other words, the bubble is bursting, and if you bought pins as an 'investment' or think you'll always get more than your money back when paying top dollar and adding mods, well, silly you.)

I would hope no one buys something unless they know what it will be like.. unless you have money to throw away

And a fully loaded Mustang GT was sub $30K when IM came out. Now they are $45K. Inflation

I think LOTR LE used a combination of a Whitestar CPU board along with a SAM driver board or something to that effect. I wouldn't rule out LOTR being re-run "some day" but think it will be quite a ways in the future. My guess is that Stern wouldn't want to go through the hassle of updating it to SAM when SAM 2.0 is around the corner. My guess is that LOTR's software would be emulated in very much the same way that MMR emulates MM code if it is ever re-made.

And no, I don't think there's anyway Stern will release a game in 2014 using Whitestar boards. Don't those have leaded solder in them anyways which is illegal in most countries?

Hopefully they'll finally fix the add-a-ball bug during War Machine multiball, where if you hit War Machine after draining out of multiball (but still during the grace period) it will kick another ball into play but not continue MB.

Doesn't Stern realize that VAULT and GREED are forever linked in the pinball world thanks to TAF??

Credit Dot examines the announcement with a lot of the thoughts and concerns that were raised here already.

NEWS: VAULT SPELL G-R-E-E-D
http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/06/12/news-shot-to-vault-spell-g-r-e-e-d-stern-announces-iron-man-vault-edition/

Rob

00-vault0.jpg

I agree and hope this is the case. IMO, these type of people are not true pinball collectors, they are buyers and resellers of machines, they are not buying pinball for the passion of owning it, the machine are straight commodities or investments. Remind me of house or antique car flippers...

You mean the 2009 version?