(Topic ID: 299309)

Stern Insider Connected

By anathematize

2 years ago


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Post #1031 Notes directly from Stern's presentation to Stern Army members. Posted by chuckwurt (2 years ago)

Post #1043 Additional notes from the Stern presentation. Posted by Smack (2 years ago)

Post #2423 Stern Splitter for IC on Batman 66 and other amazingly loaded games! Posted by NeilMcRae (2 years ago)

Post #3320 Methods for leaderboards on location. Posted by davegauth (1 year ago)

Post #4641 Info regarding which chipsets in the dongles are likely to work. Posted by TrixTrix (1 year ago)

Post #4880 Sharing QR readers still works after Apr 20 2023 IC update Posted by ChrisBardon (11 months ago)


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#193 2 years ago

--

The concept of achievements/challenges alone has me sold. Great way to help you re-engage with machines you think you've already "beaten" by encouraging you to go for different goals or play in different ways than you might otherwise. More dimension than simply shooting for high scores.

Also a cool idea to make things more interesting for guests. Even if a guest plays a low-scoring game, they might knock off a few low-hanging achievements and feel that sense of accomplishment or progress that makes them want to play another game. I can imagine achievements would also double as a good learning tool for teaching you the mechanics of the ruleset in a more digestible way.

Here for it!

#203 2 years ago
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

Bet stern will be charging to use this. Microsoft charges to use Xbox live. To share and maintain scores cost money and a server cost money to maintain and run. I highly doubt stern is going to offer this service for free. You will probably have to be a stern insider member to use it. Just my opinion and I could be wrong, or right.

As it's currently described, it doesn't seem like Stern will be doing anywhere near as much data up/down as game consoles, so their cost to operate should be substantially lower than XBL. Not to mention the massive disparity in # of users between XBL and pinball players... apples and oranges imo.

My guess is Stern gets enough marketing/buzz/data from this to rationalize the cost of operating it.

#206 2 years ago

Semi-serious question, what has a higher net cost for stern to operate/maintain annually?

1) Insider Connected
2) The 'Wall of Microwaves' for Stern's production line workers

#223 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I love the complete lack of subtlety in the marketing. Online functionality, this call for Gen Z nerdy girl in glasses with fiber optic rays shooting out of her eyes. LOL

#270 2 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Well, I won't be buying any more Sterns. This is a huge turnoff. But I imagine Millenials and younger will dig it.

I don’t think anybody holds a gun to your head and forces you to use it….

Gomez did say more features were coming though, so who knows!

#277 2 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Hell no I won't be using it.
This is like the time I suddenly noticed a bunch of late teens and young adults recreating outside only to realize they were still glued to their phones trying to catch Pokemon.
If you guys want to bring your phones to log into your stern app to scan a QR code to synch up before you push start go for it. Maybe you'll win a virtual participation trophy, or a Stern hat for your avatar.

Gotcha, totally understand if this has no appeal to you— I was just pointing out that it’s not going to stop you from enjoying the parts of pinball you do consider worthwhile.

Not trying to be a smart-ass, just making the point that never buying another Stern because of this is a little extreme.

#323 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I don't know...I watched the Gomez video, and while I hate to sound like the boomer I almost am, I like just playing pinball by myself or with a friend. I have the same reaction I did when JJP introduced flipping Dialed In with your phone: Just put the f**king phone down already, play some pinball, and enjoy the company of good friends. I love technology...but only up to a certain point.

Looking at this from the perspective of the achievement tracking (which is the part I'm personally most interested in):

There's a lot of negative focus on the "phone" involvement in this thread. I don't think the mission statement is to get all the information specifically to your phone and draw your attention away from the physical machine (or the friends you're playing with), but to give you a convenient way to "log in" that didn't require you having to spend 90 seconds typing your username and password in using the flipper buttons.

The phone involvement, per Gomez, was to give you a way to identify yourself quickly to the machine and track your progress. That's the cool part-- the progress tracking, not the phone. He did indicate that if you really wanted you could just print off a QR code and carry it in your wallet.

I also got the impression that you could log in via your computer and check all your stats/progression that way, if you wanted. Since everybody in this thread clearly cares enough about pinball to contribute to a pinball forum online, the following seems like a reasonable use case for the phone averse:

1) Sign up, Print out QR Code
2) Walk up to Machine (location or home); scan printed QR code. Or don't, whatever.
3) Play pinball like you always have
4) Periodically, as often as you care to, log on and check your progress and stats.

^No phone required.

#346 2 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Sounds like Stern is already planning that based on earlier comments form Zombie Yeti.
In the Georges video he mentioned special aprons needed for Batman66, Elvira, and Star Wars. What's different on those aprons from the standard metal aprons?

Batman 66 has the little trading card mounted in the lower right of the apron, and (I think more importantly) doesn’t have that triangular knockout area that other models use for additional artwork/plastics.

Seems like the triangular knockout has to exist for you to have a mounting location for the QR reader, and the normal pricing card has to exist so they can put the "Here's how to sign up, scan this QR code" info.
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#349 2 years ago
Quoted from anathematize:

That doesn't hold for Star Wars or Elvira correct? Elvira SE has a card it looks like. But not Star Wars[quoted image][quoted image]

Looks like BM66 and EHOH are different because of the “collector card” being there in place of the pricing card slot. EHOH at least has the right triangular knockout, whereas BM66 deviates in both respects.

I dunno what the problem is with Star Wars… is the hyperspace loop in the way or something? Otherwise it looks fine…

EDIT: Maybe the Luke decal is truly that— a decal. The "suitable" arches appear to have a triangular knockout and a matching triangular plastic that currently fills that void. BM66 and SW are missing that triangular knockout, because they're just decals sitting over the solid metal apron.

#633 2 years ago
Quoted from craif:

The ranking/achievement system is from video games. I think about competitive video game communities. There's 2 things they really hate.
- Randomness/Variance of any sort. aka: RNG, "No items, Fox Only, Final Destination."
- Cheating or even the perception cheating is possible.
Even at the highest competitive level what really makes pinball different from video games is the randomness that only a physical machine can deliver. Even in the best virtual pinball simulations with the highest quality physics you can sense it's not the same. No 2 tables are alike and even the strictest tournament settings still allow for a lot of random things to happen. Anyone can do whatever they want to their own machine, but in tournaments anti-cheat/game integrity is secure because you're all playing the same table and policing one another.
Are either of those going to fly with the players who are going to be most invested in this system and willing to increase their coin drop because of it?
When either ends up affecting profitability/adoption of the system, Stern will have to respond. In the long term, I worry the price will be paid in the form of code, rules, features and general game design that trade away some of the fun and randomness unique to pinball.
That's going to affect everyone. Even the people who never make an account and never play in tournaments.

Lots of good points in here. I think I agree that as a metric to compare two players it'll never really be taken very seriously-- but I also think that's ok! We already have IFPA rankings for the truly competitive players, right?

I think 80% of Stern IC users will consider the achievements as another form of player vs machine ("Hey, I have a few more achievements to get on Led Zeppelin, so maybe I'll get one more beer and play a couple more games before I head out") as opposed to player vs player ("I need to get all these achievements to improve my achievement ranking on Stern IC."). If there is a player vs player element to it, maybe it'll just be more casual. For example, your buddy mentions that he got the "Bee Gees" achievement for getting 400 disco spins on Deadpool in a single game, and you say "Maybe I'll play a few games and see if I can do that too!"

Personally I expect to care very little about my total "achievement score," and more about whether or not I was able to get that tricky Jurassic Park achievement, 1-up a friend, stumble into an achievement I didn't know existed, etc.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be "the" thing. It can just be "a" thing.

#707 2 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Location pinball play prices are going to rise, creating a much larger barrier in driving new pinheads to this hobby. Cute idea, but outdated and anyone with any business sense can see this will fail. This innovation was not built using customer data for some unmet need, this was built on greed and ambition for profit. Once again, Where is my Bluetooth!!!!

I think the idea is that achievements (and the pavlov-ian response to earning them) are expected to do a better job of getting players hooked. How many times have you seen someone walk up to a machine they don't understand, knock the ball around for ~3 minutes, and walk away with a look on their face like "what the hell did I just play THAT for?" Achievements give that type of player a breadcrumb trail to follow to keep them playing (read: inserting more quarters, learning more about the game rules, coming back to play the same machine again later, getting into the hobby, considering buying one for their basement, etc).

Interested new player signs up, plays their first game, and gets a low-hanging achievement for starting their first mode. "Oh, ok-- I see what's going on here." Then they play again to see if they can *finish* a mode-- new achievement, nice. Then it's an achievement for multiball, scoring a super jackpot, completing 5 modes in a game, etc. What could have been a total earnings of $1 is now an earnings of $7 because they played more games. Maybe they're buzzed enough that they share it on social media or convince a friend to come play with them ("Look, our names are up on the screen!"). Operator doesn't have to increase the cost per play if there are more people playing, and playing more games each session.

Next time that person thinks about going out and playing pinball, they may be more likely to do so because there's "progress" to be made. Even if they're not a great player yet, they can still have fun earning a few achievements. I'm not an operator, so maybe I'm overly optimistic about revenue this might help generate. But as a player I think it's awesome.

The data collection and tools that they have in the works for operators seem like they would certainly rationalize any fees or subscriptions that *might* be coming. Again-- not an operator. Outside looking in.

EDIT: also, don't forget-- the machine still accepts coins if you choose not to use the Stern IC features.

1 week later
#847 2 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

It will replace the right hand side plastic lighted window.

Yep, that triangular plastic behind the triangular knockout in the apron will be removed and have the reader mounted underneath.

Exceptions are (I think) Batman 66, EHOH, and Star Wars because their "stock" aprons don't have that triangular knockout. BM66 and SW don't have the triangular knockout, and EHOH doesn't have a spot for the instruction card.

I guess technically you could probably get away with the stock apron on EHOH if you don't need to or don't care to display the instruction card (Home use environment, for example). Wonder if they'll offer that?

#888 2 years ago
Quoted from craif:

"Fail the same way 45 consecutive times" is going in the list of bullet points for my imaginary ted talk on what happens when a company shifts the narrative from entertainment to engagement.

Haha-- I agree that the specific example is pretty bad, but I also echo the sentiment of hoping for some obscure/hidden achievements in the mix.

1 week later
#997 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I just noticed that Insider All Access ($40 a year) says: "Coming Soon - access to special game related content". So not surprisingly, it looks like we will have to pay to get all the features of Insider Connected. I guess I was hoping with the big price increase on games that would not be the case. I guess as long as All Access stays at $40 a year it's not a real big cost...but still...

On bare principle, the paywalled content is a little grating. But in the context of pinball I think it's more than acceptable. You *easily* spend more than $40 with any order you make to Pinball Life, Marco, Comet, Titan, etc... If $40 a year is enough of a revenue stream for Stern to rationalize the development of more pinball content, I'm all for it.

#1003 2 years ago
Quoted from KingVidiot:

Just think, by NOT subbing to Insider, you could buy a new $9K pin every 18.75 years!

It's worse than that! 18.75 years assumes you're paying $40/month.. it's more like a $9k pinball machine every 225 years if the $40 fee is annual.

Either way... to make this a food-gument ( ^ love the cheeseburger analogy): we're talking small potatoes in a big stew with the $40 fee.

#1073 2 years ago
Quoted from ohiojosh:

So anyone have an idea when we can order a kit for the first batch of games?

I'd suggest just reaching out to your distributor and asking them to put you on an interest or pre-order list and specifying the game(s) you want a kit for-- that's what I did. Don't think any distributors know when to expect them to be available yet.

#1081 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Ain't nobody got time to be printing out single use QR codes when everyone has a phone in their pocket.

Ehh, idk about that. Electronic distribution is definitely easier/quicker, but it still seems pretty straightforward in concept for an operator to print out a few sheets of "free play" QR codes (~100 or so on a single sheet of 8.5x11 paper, maybe?) to give the location to keep in a bowl behind the bar.

Operator could also negotiate a deal with the location such that they "sell" the sheet of free play QR codes to the business at some discounted rate, and the business gives customers a "free play" QR code with purchase of a 16oz Coors Light. Operator still makes money on the plays (indirectly), people who might not have played pinball are now able to get their feet wet, etc. Everyone wins.

Paper is still convenient imo. Bartenders have to work quick, and grabbing a slip of paper is a lot faster (for them) than figuring out what a customer's cell phone number or email address is in order to send it to them electronically. Plus, the QR code could be theoretically set up for one free play on each game in the location, or 5 free games in any combination, etc. That's ALSO easier than a bartender counting out tokens each time they sell a 16oz Coors.

#1092 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Like I said before.. it basically becomes the same as handing out money at that point. As an Op now I gotta stock the bar too? And pay for it's redemption tool? Why is this better than being able to give out a code the person redeems themselves on their phone?

I think the nice thing about printed QR codes is the lack of friction in the bartender/customer experience. The bartender just has to hand them the "coupon." Could be taped to the beer can already, even. No counting out tokens or giving them "cash" that they can just as easily blow on more beer instead of giving it to the pinball machine. They just walk over to the machine, scan it, and play. No logging on to anything or redeeming it to your "Stern Wallet" or anything like that.

I'm not an operator but this seems like it opens the door for some creative promotions and some "outside the box" thinking when it comes to negotiating with the business owner. Even better if you happen to own both the business and the machines.

Quoted from flynnibus:

And in this model the only thing the Op knows is how much is going out. He doesn't know to whom.. how it relates to future sales.. who are using it.. doesn't know if he's reaching 500 new people or just 5.

But you don't know any of that today either, it's just coins in the box-- right? I think you're unfairly expecting this to scratch EVERY itch at the same time. It's different use cases that accomplish different goals, and that should be OK.

Quoted from flynnibus:

All problems that would be solved and enhanced if you gave PROFILES coupons - not just handed out paper token credits that are used anonymously.
Oh and let's not forget that stack of QR codes is not secure in any fashion... now people just start printing their own once the algorithm is known... big hole in your coinbox. By not having any association between use and USER/PROFILE you lose so much.

I was imagining a scenario where the operator generates a set of QR codes, associates them with his location's machines, and distributes them. Wouldn't it be pretty tough to spoof one of a few hundred valid QR codes that happen to be associated with that location? I guess anything is possible but I just don't think this is a big enough concern to be creating a stink over.

Quoted from flynnibus:

No op wants another service call "hey, the coupon pile is out..."

I would, if I worked out some kind of deal with the business where I'm still profiting off of those QR codes (maybe just slightly less for the sake of the promotion).

Quoted from flynnibus:

Both use cases that could be solved without putting $200 worth of kit on every game and no way would you be asking people to setup an email address, etc. The bartender gives you a code or QR code that the person takes a photo of (or you distribute in some way if you care). The user is invited to redeem this coupon and do so via the app. They scan the coupon in the app, and then scan the game, and they play.
No paper piles to stock...
No static QR codes lying around as a liability...
You can limit re-uses
You can make your QR generator just be another phone/terminal without any POS integration
You drive people to install the app
The platform knows who is redeeming coupons
The platform would be able to track success metrics from users of these coupons
The platform now has a hook into that user to push future promotions
The platform now has the potential to know a ton more about that player going forward
None of which is possible if you just hand out paper tokens... and pay $200 to add a scanner to every game.
Why does the grocery store make you sign up for their loyalty program instead of just marking the price down on the shelf for everyone if everyone can get the same discount? Because they are driving people to enroll and give them that constant customer contact.
Adding to the BOM of every game so you can avoid the phone requirement is a shortsighted move that greatly limits the potential and usability of the platform.

I like your architecture, and think it makes sense for folks who care enough to go through the registration process... but I also think you're over-estimating how likely a "non pinball" person is to go through that many steps to play a pinball machine they wouldn't have dropped $1 of their own money in anyway. "Receive a coupon, scan a coupon, play a game" is just way simpler in my opinion. Is it the fanciest, slickest, most secure implementation? Definitely not. But it also doesn't have to be. Sometimes simpler is better imo.

#1095 2 years ago

Can confirm that if you already have All-Access and go to create a "new" account now with the same email address, it'll automatically associate the two accounts and carry over your subscription. Proof:

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#1101 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Promotions are good - yes.
Adding $200 to every game to enable promotions that I can't track the success of - Not good.

Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm not paying an extra $200 for my machine today either.. but now I will be.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Instead... 'please pay $200 a game when everyone around you has a super computer in their pocket'

There's no getting around the $200 cost, that's true. But promotions aren't the only value you're expected to get out of the hardware. To require every individual feature of the hardware to be "worth $200" is unreasonable and you're going to be impossible to please if that's your way of framing it. It is but one potential launch feature of a platform we're told will be expanded substantially in the future.

Quoted from flynnibus:

The point is by requiring the system to be functional without a co-resident app, you cripple the potentials. On top of that, insult to injury, you're asking me to pay extra for this 'benefit' which really is an inferior solution for some petty use cases that are easily covered if you accept the app setup friction. A compromise that is COMMONPLACE everywhere else.
Want that coupon at the grocery store? enroll
Want that McDonalds promo? enroll
Want that gas discount? enroll
Want that 20% coupon from that webstore before you buy? enroll
Yes, setting up an app is some initial friction - but it's common place. Heck, you could even allow the app to work WITHOUT ENROLLMENT for some things.

Honestly, why not both? Why not allow standalone QR coupons that don't require enrollment AND allow them to be deposited into your user profile? Then operators like you can choose the one that works best for you? I think we're both talking about different target demographics anyway, which may be the problem.

Quoted from flynnibus:

See prior list of issues with static QR codes.. they basically become currency you have to manage

Quoted from flynnibus:

Again you're tying value to the codes... they now become some form of token currency to manage and not usable.

More to manage, but also targeted "bait" to attract new players to your machines. If you give out tokens or quarters, those can go to any other machine in the arcade/barcade. The QR code is uniquely stern pinball and I think that benefits the operator who wants to see those coins going into his pinball machines, or see a non-pinball person grudgingly put some time on a machine. Best case scenario, they get the pinball bug and start pumping in their own $$.

Isn't that whole idea of coupons, to give something away in expectation of something in return? "Might as well go get my free McChicken sandwich.. and I'll throw a couple bucks in of my own for a drink and some fries."

#1191 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Wouldn't be the first time LOL.
I figured something else out that will no doubt irk someone, somewhere.

xXx--69--FRAX--69--xXx is still available, can't believe you didn't go with that!

1 week later
12
#1359 2 years ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

Don't buy it, be strong.
Don't fall for Stern latest cash grab.
There are 40 years of " Modern " pinball machines, to choose from.
You don't have to buy NIB Stern.
Pinball never needed internet connectivity, or " achievements " to be fun.
I just bought a 1965 Gottlieb pin, and its one of the most fun pins I own.
Don't be a lemming, like the whole pinball network shill crew, falling over themselves to lick Sterns boots.
Message from the Freeeek Kingdom .

Honest question-- if someone is genuinely most interested in and drawn to the bleeding edge releases from Stern, and if Stern also happens to be a business that wants to make money, is it really fair to say that person is a "lemming" for wanting to buy from them?

It's the nature of consumers to be interested in the latest (objective) and greatest (subjective) thing out there. I don't know if it's fair to say anyone buying a new Stern is a "lemming" for doing so. Also don't think podcasters covering the new machines and releases are shills for what they choose to cover. Most of these podcasts are essentially covering the news.. root word, "new."

That 1965 Gottlieb pin you describe may be a blast for you to play, but somebody else's entertainment mileage may vary with the same machine. I guess I just don't think it's cool to "yuck" anybody else's "yum." Anybody who cares enough to read/post on pinside about Pinball obviously enjoys playing... it's okay for folks to enjoy it in different ways, right?

#1443 2 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

excuse my ignorance, but why is a code reader or extra hardware needed for this insider stuff. JJP uses scorbit and you need nothing more than a wifi dongle, and it works on older games like the hobbit, just need to update your software.

One of the points George made in the Marco stream yesterday was that the QR reader was partially motivated by the fact that it's kind of "in your face" and attracts a little more attention than the alternative solution (I'll call it the flynnibus solution since he's posted about it in here for weeks) that doesn't require additional hardware.

After seeing/playing a Godzilla with the reader last weekend I think I agree with him on that one. Lots of folks I know won't take time to read instruction cards or even read what's on the LCD. The QR reader attracts the eye and primes you to ask "what the hell is this?" whereas a passive QR code solution wouldn't.

Idk if all that *fully* rationalizes the additional hardware cost, but I do agree with the principle of "attention-getting" that George cited as a key motivator.

#1446 2 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

perhaps a splash screen when you press start could inform you that you can connect to the game with brief instruction on the screen and then you have to press start a second time to start the game, which could force you to look at the screen. Could be disabled in the menus for home games. I don't like the intrusiveness and look of the QR nor the hardware requirements to connect. Plus, the Scorbit app works really well. The industry has never played nice across manufacturers, but perhaps in this instance, there was a good opportunity missed to do so.

Yep, I know what you mean. I'm sure they discussed the "no hardware" approach at some point in their development and steered away from it for a reason. I think Stern chose the route they saw as "most likely to get people to sign up and use it," which unfortunately for some folks requires undesired hardware and cost. More unfortunately, it also means there will be Spike 2 machines in the wild whose operators don't want to add the hardware to... and therefore players won't be able to utilize Insider Connected on them.

FWIW I found the experience to be really smooth on the Godzilla I played-- enough to want a retrofit for my Batman '66 at home. Achievements and score tracking and whatnot were a cool experience. I'm for it, and hope the machines in my area are retrofitted. I'm honestly more likely to go play at locations near me if I know they're going to have IC. Breathes new life into those machines for me.

#1451 2 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

so if this is what you want out of the system (which is the same that I want and I think it's a cool innovation that JJP started), i don't understand what stern is trying to achieve or how this generates revenue for them. It would be much simpler to go with just a software route, like scorbit. when I log in to the insider account it asks me if I want to upgrade my account, which I am not doing because to me I don't see any benefit to it. I seriously doubt any casual player at a location is going to do anything more than register a basic account because all we really want to do is track scores and compete with friends. Like you and others have said, stern likely has their reasons for doing what they did, but the need to retrofit older games to me does not seem like the way to go with expensive hardware. sorry for beating a dead horse.

Again, not disagreeing with your points because I think all of yours are valid. But, I think the counterpoints here are:

1) this isn’t everything they plan to do with the platform, more functionality is expected and that functionality may (or may not, who knows) make it more enticing to drop $40 annually for all access. But I also don’t think the fee is intended to be a significant revenue stream for them anyway.

2) IMO, in theory this first phase of IC generates more revenue for stern by engaging a younger audience to play pinball (or play pinball more). More players equals more machines sold to operators and (potentially, to a lesser degree) more home buyers. I don’t think Stern expects to make money on all access registration for casual location players, they probably just hope they can get their hooks into some new players at the “free” level. Pinheads and current members of the hobby will likely not mind dropping $40 for more of the pinball content they already crave. But if achievements or score tracking resonate with someone who previously didn’t care for the hobby… that’s a win for Stern.

More people playing pinball, at the end of the day, drives machine sales indirectly.

#1453 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Not sure why Stern wouldn't offer a non-QR reader workflow for Insider Connect. Would allow people with pre-Insider Connect pins to just buy a wifi dongle for $20 to get the Insider Connect features, and would provide an alternative workflow for if/when a QR reader on location is broken. Maybe that is on the roadmap for the future.
While I think it would be fun to have achievements, spending a $1000.00 to upgrade my existing pins to Connect is not something I am going to do.

I like this idea of “both options.” Probably would make the most sense for Stern to wait a while before releasing it though, as otherwise it undermines the QR reader that they chose to go with out of the gate.

Theoretically after about 6 months or a year it seems unlikely that people will continue buying retrofit kits anyway. If you wanted one, you would have bought it by that point. So like you said, why not develop a non-hardware solution so that you can still interface with those machines who didn’t opt-in with a physical reader.

1 week later
#1567 2 years ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

This would be cool for locations. Anyone know if eventually operators will be able to do similar displays?[quoted image]

Agree— it’s weird how just consolidating scores on a TV gives it so much more of a competitive feel. Really dig it.

1 month later
#2090 2 years ago
Quoted from KingVidiot:

Update.
Got the latest Stranger Things update, which pushes me past the 4 bank selector into the messy area of daisy-chaining 2 4-bank selectors. Here’s my updated schematic.
[quoted image]

Upvoted for the nice artwork!

(And obviously the ingenuity, etc )

2 months later
#2742 2 years ago
Quoted from seiman:

Just bought my first insider connected kit for more than 200 CHF. Still thinking its too expensive....So what about DIY? Biggest problem is the qr reader, the other things i can easy get for about 30 CHF(cable, wifi adapter, sd card) So think i found a very similar one on: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003099205686.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2deu&spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.40043c00cWyFvi&mp=1
The problem is: this one has only usb, rs 232 or TTL output, but we need RJ45 Ethernet. Found this one: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32858137276.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2deu&spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.40043c00cWyFvi&mp=1
Does anyone know if this could work? On the Pro's you can cut out the old Apron and reuse it....?

It's been brought up a couple times, but the RJ45 connectors/cabling used in Spike 2 are not for your typical network usage; they use it as a convenient fieldbus for their own protocols (and power distribution). If you buy a standard QR code reader with an RJ45 connector on it and hook that into a Spike 2 system, it's going to damage either the QR reader, the Spike 2 system, or both. The QR Reader won't be expecting the higher voltages on the ethernet cable that Spike 2 is sending.

#2744 2 years ago
Quoted from seiman:

Ok, thanks, didnt know about that issue

No problem! I don't know where to find the Spike 2 manual (or if one exists), but the same concept is explained briefly in the Spike 1 manual. Check out section 2.2 and 2.3.
https://sternpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/SPIKE-System-Manual.pdf

#2753 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This whole back and forth is because people are using poor descriptions.
The person you were responding to was using bad descriptions. He's right it's not ethernet. You are wrong that it's the 'same cabling pinouts' as ethernet. What you are trying to say is it's the same 8 pin jack expecting to use 4 pair UTP cabling, like Ethernet does, which is correct. But the only thing that is shared between these two systems is using the same patch cord.
When the other poster was saying "you can't just plug a QR reader with a RJ45 connector on it" - he's right, but for all the wrong reasons. 1) You won't find a QR reader like that for just a reader 2) He's trying to say "you can't just use an ethernet QR reader" - which is right, but again, there really isn't such a thing to start with. The commodity part everyone sees Stern has used is a simple serial device intended to work with some other controller. That's the other half of Stern's QR reader node board, which is a controller and interface to the rest of the Spike 2 bus.
Anyone trying to replace the Stern QR reader itself needs not just a QR reader, but needs to replace the Stern Node board interface and functionality. Not impossible, but you're not going to find an off-the-shelf copy.. you'd have to cobble something together the components, reverse engineer the software interfaces and and create the equivalent firmware and I/O.
Every few weeks someone comes along and says "oh can't I just plug in my own QR reader?" And the answer is simply "No, unless you've also got a Stern Node board in there too"

Yep, my bad on the terminology.. point was, anything not specifically designed to work with Stern’s node bus is not gonna work with it, and subject to damage in one direction or the other.

Also, I was just making an assumption that there are Ethernet ready QR readers somewhere out there, for the sake of argument. I agree that they probably don’t exist, just wanted to let the guy know he was barking up the wrong tree trying to piece a DIY solution together.

Quoted from TeeJayN:

(google is your friend)

Fwiw, this seems disproportionately condescending, since I was just trying to save the guy time and money with a simple explanation, not pretending to be smarter than anyone…. Also wasn’t saying Stern didn’t use standard Ethernet cables.

#2759 2 years ago
Quoted from TeeJayN:

My Google comment was on a side note description at the end of my post about a Power Over Ethernet option which I suspect most people might be unaware hence to check it out with Google. I'm sorry if it was taken as a jab to your entire post as that was not my intent.

All good, I just saw it below your line-by-line responses and got a little defensive. No worries.

#2761 2 years ago
Quoted from TrixTrix:

The nodebus cables are standard (not cross over!) Ethernet cables. The nodebus signals are NOT Ethernet compatible. The 48v power for the nodeboard comes from the black/gray wire harness connected to the board NOT the nodebus cable. Some boards, including the QR scanner, get their low voltage power from the nodebus cable.

That does make a lot more sense, I was scratching my head on how the twisted pairs could possibly be adequate for 48V… thanks for clarifying!

#2818 2 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Stern missed a perfect opportunity to make the IC instructions for this game more Batman66 like, i.e. "use the Bat-QR scanner to unlock Bat-achievements" or something similar.
[quoted image]

Couldn’t agree more; I was really hoping for better art integration on the retrofit kits, more similar to what you see on GZ Premium.

2 weeks later
#2876 1 year ago
Quoted from PinHead50:

Got to use my insider connect finally on my buddies new Godzilla and Mando. Do we have any idea when the Iphone App is going to be released if ever? Having to pull up the website to check on achievements is a PITA. I did the screenshot of my QR code so that was easier but man I hope the release a full blown app soon.

Haven't done it on cardstock yet, but I printed out my QR code and just keep it face-down on my machine at home, resting on the glass down by the lockdown bar. I just slide it up to the reader when I want to log in, then slide it back down to the lockdown bar after I hear the successful login sound.

For location play I just have a bookmark in safari for the insider website and my login info is saved with Face ID, so it's like a 5 second thing to log in and get at my QR code. I'm eager for an iPhone app too (for all the info/stats/etc), but I'd be surprised if it'll ever beat having a QR code printed out (wallet card, stuck inside your phone case, tattooed to your forearm, etc) in terms of speed.

1 month later
#3018 1 year ago
Quoted from docquest:

That's awesome. They should update the product descriptions so people are aware they have that option.

Would be nice for this to be included on new games (like Deadpool), where the right plastic has more desirable art than the left. I’d rather move the QR reader to the left and keep the Deadpool art rather than have it on the right and keep the Cable art.

2 months later
#3379 1 year ago

Anybody have any insight on when the Batman 66 retrofit kits will become available?

3 weeks later
#3666 1 year ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

Home team works without a QR reader present, once it's set up.

Good to know! Gonna have to do this on my BM66, since apparently the retrofit for that will cost a total of $328 ($199 premium kit + $129 BM66 apron). And that’s just if you can find everything available.

#3668 1 year ago
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:

You could always do the door mount and not purchase a new apron….

Yep, and that's likely to happen at this point... I'd just prefer (in my small collection) that the three Sterns sitting next to eachother look the same with the QR readers on the apron. I know that's a little obsessive, but I'm a visual dude and I know that'd bug me. Small potatoes, though.

Just wish the pricing for the BM66 kit would have been more reasonable.

3 months later
#4232 1 year ago

Something that would be kind of cool… adding “guest” logins to available slots on your home team (for all machines at your home) after they scan in to just one of your games.

I noticed a couple weekends ago that some guests were showing up on my Mandalorian home team screen as “guest” accounts after scanning their QR codes. At first I thought “oh, cool, so they’ll be on Batman and Deadpool now also” but they weren’t.

Not a huge deal, but would be nice to have guests just scan into one of your machines and then they're temporarily active on your home team on the rest of your machines.

3 weeks later
#4361 1 year ago

I've got a couple coworkers who come over every so often to play at our house (One of them is borrowing my Batman 66 for the holidays, actually).

I periodically go to the IC page and check his stats (to see how many games he's played on the loaned Batman 66) and check the High Score Table for that machine in my collection. It's been fun to get messages from him that say "Check out the HST for Batman, I had a pretty awesome game last night" or for me to jab him with a "Still can't beat that factory 500M GC? What gives?!"

Would be fun for guests who know I have a Deadpool/Batman66/Mandalorian to be able to check my basement's high scores from their phone if/when they see one of those machines on location. Then they can kind of mentally compare their scores on location to the scores on my home leaderboard. It's more fun to compete against people you know than strangers, imo.

I like the idea of having a URL that makes that process a little less clunky.

Also, the more obvious "reset the high scores for the night" is a really cool benefit for the home leaderboard when you have people over to play. Nobody wants to try to beat a GC that has been set on a game I've owned for two years, but they *do* want to try and beat the high score that has been put on a game for the night.

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