(Topic ID: 299309)

Stern Insider Connected

By anathematize

56 days ago


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    Post #1031 Notes directly from Stern's presentation to Stern Army members. Posted by chuckwurt (14 days ago)

    Post #1043 Additional notes from the Stern presentation. Posted by Smack (14 days ago)


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    #168 55 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    The kit will include a new apron with a qr reader for Pros, and mostly just a qr reader for Prem/LE as well as a wifi dongle. George said he doesn't know price but said he emphasized that he doesn't want this to be focused on making profit because he wants widespread adoption.

    don't force people to buy an wifi dongle when they can use e-net (spike 1 does not have e-net on board)

    #209 55 days ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Just heard GG mention on the podcast that "full access" insiders will potentially have more "play stuff" (starting at around the 43 min mark). Not sure exactly what this "play stuff" will be, but it is pretty obvious that one of the end goals of this is to create a solid subscription revenue stream for Stern.
    Good for the business, sucks for the players. I don't want to end up in the situation where the 10k machine I just bought needs another $4.99 a month to get a complete game experience.

    so $40 /year player and $$$ per game per year for ops?

    #266 55 days ago
    Quoted from iEatHands:

    - Pay for games through the app, buy 20 games get 5 free on that location or operators games. Then I don’t need to pay for multiple games on a single machine to get your freebie/half price game.
    - Pay for time based play at a location, pay for 1 hour at a location which is linked to your QR code

    and games cost $2/game to cover sterns and apples cut.

    #433 54 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    4) Putting wifi on the board locks you into the feature set of that wifi chip

    put in an Mini PCIe slot

    #455 54 days ago

    some one do an port scan on one

    -1
    #459 54 days ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    To be clear, the poster (me), isn't really concerned about the specific implementation. I fully concede that a USB dongle or some other modular way of doing the Wi-Fi is better. You made good points.
    If I changed my original post to say "out of the box" instead of "on the cpu" would that make my problem clearer? Having Wi-Fi is now going to be an additional cost added on to a system that really should have had it out of the box. I don't think it is a hindsight thing, Spike 2 was designed in 2015 or so. Wi-Fi was pretty ubiquitous. There must've been a decision point to NOT include it back in the design phase, and I would have to guess that the option to sell it as an additional addon at some point was somewhere in that discussion.
    When this was announced my first thought was that all Stern was going to need to do was enable the Wi-Fi through the firmware because the hardware was always capable and this was going to be a no brainer kinda thing. Just flabbergasted it wasn't already part of the platform. Now I am going to have to order some kit, paying the MSRP, plus exchange, plus shipping plus tax just to have even basic hardware capabilities that $100.00 DVD players had like 15 years ago. As an added bonus though I also get a QR reader! So, worth it?
    At the end of the day, I will have a decision to make as to whether or not to adopt this system on my existing pins and now there is a barrier to entry that didn't really need to be there.

    they had Ethernet and there are ethernet to wireless adapters. also usb wifi can just plug in.

    #460 54 days ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    To be clear, the poster (me), isn't really concerned about the specific implementation. I fully concede that a USB dongle or some other modular way of doing the Wi-Fi is better. You made good points.
    If I changed my original post to say "out of the box" instead of "on the cpu" would that make my problem clearer? Having Wi-Fi is now going to be an additional cost added on to a system that really should have had it out of the box. I don't think it is a hindsight thing, Spike 2 was designed in 2015 or so. Wi-Fi was pretty ubiquitous. There must've been a decision point to NOT include it back in the design phase, and I would have to guess that the option to sell it as an additional addon at some point was somewhere in that discussion.
    When this was announced my first thought was that all Stern was going to need to do was enable the Wi-Fi through the firmware because the hardware was always capable and this was going to be a no brainer kinda thing. Just flabbergasted it wasn't already part of the platform. Now I am going to have to order some kit, paying the MSRP, plus exchange, plus shipping plus tax just to have even basic hardware capabilities that $100.00 DVD players had like 15 years ago. As an added bonus though I also get a QR reader! So, worth it?
    At the end of the day, I will have a decision to make as to whether or not to adopt this system on my existing pins and now there is a barrier to entry that didn't really need to be there.

    and with JJP and others it's free / buy an low cost wifi usb.

    #486 53 days ago
    Quoted from OhmEye:

    Stern not only keeps the BOM minimal, they even shave it for the Pro at expense of needing different manufacturing steps/parts. It's precisely because of how easy it is to add a ethernet/WIFI module to their modular platform that I would expect them to not add it until they have product support for it. As it turns out, the WIFI module itself is obviously a minor cost in the set of BOM changes needed, I think the apron bracket and camera are probably more cost than the network components but my point is that the benefit of a modular design is NOT having to add in advance everything you think you may use in the future.
    A couple or more years from now, if their "Connected" platform matures into something actually deployed and adopted widely enough to be relevant we may consider it to be a good thing to have been included in all pins shipped for the past couple years by the time some reason appears for many of us to want to use it.
    Personally I'm cynical but still a bit hopeful that eventually something will be done with this connectivity in a way that interests me.

    ethernet is part of the spike2 cpu board and WIFI module can just plug into an usb port on the cpu board.

    #488 52 days ago

    will OS updates / Connected updated be tied to game code updates? or will they happen with out needing wait for the next game code update?

    #490 52 days ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    that hasn't been released yet, but i would assume that you will need an update once you connect the wifi dongle and or the qr reader. it is probably an update to the backend OS and will be universal across the games. the achievements will most likely be a seperate update(s) as the achievements are created.

    but will backend OS be updated faster then game code updates?

    Will older games just get 1 update and then not get an one?

    #538 51 days ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Yeah...okay....
    My 80 buck 3d printer curing station can tell whether the lid is on or off with a sticker that says "DO NOT REMOVE" and an opto set.....but Stern's detection would have to be super complicated? I don't think so. Any measures they take to ensure glass is on can be easily and swiftly defeated. Period.

    "Warning Keep hands away from mini-playfield"

    #619 49 days ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I have seen the video and there is a fine line between a promotional event with a prize or reward program and being able to cash out for money or goods earned in a competition. Different states/countries/regions all have different definitions or what defines gambling, competitive and addictive functionality. Maybe Stern doesn't realize this yet but they have to be very careful with how they reward anything in the real world, especially when that prize could be contested by people in different areas. Even rewarding points that you can use towards a prize you have to be very careful that you can't compete for points. You can collect and earn points by doing things but it get dicey if there is any kind of competition between people. I am sure Stern will have lawyers that sort all this out for them.

    well some things may just be at the location / ops level.

    But will need to say can't play for prizes in some states? Like golden tee?
    Now one prize seen in the video is an full pinball machine?? They may need offer an free route to get into the prize draw. As just play XXX games makes it an like an lotto also cross state line tax issues?
    As for earn points across state lines and top point earner wins an prize?? Stern is bigger target then the IFPA and OPS / arcades are bigger targets then some TD in the eyes of the law.

    Pinball may be an game of skill but others laws make it so that you can't just say poker is an game of skill.

    Now is stern taking an rake???

    #620 49 days ago
    Quoted from NoQuarters:

    Bring back Bingo Pins !
    See the bar owner for your payout.
    The pinbar or Sternbar isn't the way.

    In some places they have mini sized bingos with payout hoppers

    Now make one with TITO and players club (not sterns but the locations own system)

    #655 47 days ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    I'm pretty excited about this development and see alot of potential to transform on location play for the better.
    Some operators probably won't take the time to delve into this right away until they see it in action. I hope
    that at the next major Pinball event that Stern puts together a helluva show to showcase what this can do.
    One thing I haven't seen discussed is something that has been on my mind for awhile.
    Changing some of the mechanics on how games are paid for. THIS seems a step in the right direction.
    I imagine it would be pretty cool if users could buy 'credits' that get routed to the 'operators'.

    golden tee has CC cards and gift cards that go to ops' account but will op's pay golden tee fees per game?

    #661 47 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    As long as there is a universal payment system, fine. I'm not buying Stern bucks that only work on Stern games same as I'm not buying Dave & Busters bucks or Pinstack bucks or any other currency that's only used at one or two places. If they start selling credits it has to be the kind I can use to buy groceries or gas or rent.

    and ops eat the fees? or say CC fee $0.25 or say CC min $5

    #685 46 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    From the article above: "GG: Insider Connected will remain free. Insider Connected All Access will be a subscription based service just like the existing All Access loyalty program has been. Insider Connected All Access will have specific premium features on top of everything that has been described above."

    premium sub needed to win prizes may lead to legal issues. Can stern get out some by saying we are gifting an prize to the OP who then giving it to player?

    Also will op's like players getting free plays on there games?? if say stern says with Insider Connected All Access GOLD you get 5 free games an Month but say only give an op $0.50 per free game from stern?

    #692 45 days ago
    Quoted from Castlecade:

    They borrowed heavily from Raw Thrills (play mechanics) big buck, so it would not surprise me if the same fee structure finds its way over as well with national tournaments and per play fees to us operators. Time will tell

    big buck uses / used some of the same systems as golden tee.

    #693 45 days ago
    Quoted from Castlecade:

    They borrowed heavily from Raw Thrills (play mechanics) big buck, so it would not surprise me if the same fee structure finds its way over as well with national tournaments and per play fees to us operators. Time will tell

    national tournaments on pinball games that very a lot game to game??

    #695 45 days ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    100%. It will start as some free achievement based stuff to get everyone interested. Shortly thereafter you’ll be able to pay a few bucks a month for some extra features.
    Before long it will be just like console games where certain wizard modes and gameplay functionality will be behind a pay wall.
    Want an extra wizard mode made for your new machine? Well that will be $89.99.

    or more like golden tee.
    Players pay $0.25-$1 extra per game for on line stuff and ops need to pay yearly fees.

    #723 42 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    Possibly, but I feel like its all speculation at this point. I cant see them not charging for this service and also locations need to be charged as a location and not per game.

    good for arcades but bad for route guys who move games around / have 15-20+ games on route all over the place.

    #728 36 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    Depending on where you live this is not different than running a ToPS event.

    local game vs side wide vs muilt state

    #754 36 days ago
    Quoted from NoQuarters:

    Codes are for individual players not the machine. You scan to join and enter your personal information and then are issued a unique code to track you and your accomplishments. Latter on you will be offered some feature or content for a fee - subscription based. Revenue stream for Stern - that's really what this is about and the end game.

    subscription based for the player or for the op?
    and if for the op per game fees?

    #755 36 days ago
    Quoted from NoQuarters:

    Codes are for individual players not the machine. You scan to join and enter your personal information and then are issued a unique code to track you and your accomplishments. Latter on you will be offered some feature or content for a fee - subscription based. Revenue stream for Stern - that's really what this is about and the end game.

    we need an IFPA ruling on that.

    Must all games be locked to free mode? offline / local tournament mode?
    If the network goes down the game must not turn off anything mid game?
    What about in Herb format? NO online play? Games must be able to let people use online stuff even if network is down at login time? (work like old dial up golden tee?)

    #758 36 days ago
    Quoted from cabal:

    But if everything is only app based you will need to put 30% back to apple store. In game purchases will not be possible and gets very complicated.
    With the feature to integrate it into the machine they will have control on what ever app stores will do. It will be just a free app to see your stats and achievements. You can still go to pc with a browser and just print your individual code and be happy and do your purchases there. On the Boom side i guess it's way exagerated 200$. My guess it's an 12$ scanner and a hole in the apron and a 8$ wifi adapter.
    from Stern side i think it's a smart move to go this way and keep everything in their own control.
    and get as much information as possible from the games.
    to have the price increase and the customers pay for this another thing. Everybody is paying for features they may use or not.
    But in the end it is coming and we still have the choice to buy pinball machines or not.
    Personally i do not like it.

    and a $100+ node board?

    #763 35 days ago
    Quoted from GoodOmens:

    It would only make sense if it were for the operators unless it unlocked some sort ability to get rewards from Stern itself (t-shirts etc).
    For operators, as I mentioned earlier, paid features could be things like online access to earnings, ability to export to things like quicken, remote access to machine issues (and maybe ability to change settings remotely?), analytics about play frequency and times etc. Things a player or home user wouldn't care about.
    Heck maybe this can start enabling things like dynamic pricing. A game is not being used a lot? Price declines. Or at least the ability for operators to gather metrics to make better decisions on things like price.

    But if they start doing DLC with operators?
    They did have the topper DLC for at least 1 game. And if they start doing that for connected with need paid Tiers? for some mode?

    #768 35 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    All-Access Connected is a subscription version of the experience, focused on providing additional player features along with behind-the-scenes development stuff, early access, special events and quests. In the future, we intend to create exclusive game extensions, such as special access to new modes or new rules and features to increase the All-Access Connected value.

    per player subscription? or per game (op) side subscription?

    exclusive game extensions that are paid per player are very bad for tournament play

    #769 35 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Thanks! That Alone, and what you suggest, will create great Marketing ideas, unique to user.
    Buiuld a Small Library of ads...."Free Beer, and Game",
    "Someone Beat your high score, heres 2 free games to get it back!"
    Your DNA Champ title has been stolen! Seek revenge! Your Free Game awaits!
    or by time. Free Games during slower hours.
    If used well, and thoroughly, it should inspire serious players to benefit, and marketing and revenue for Operators.
    Any future TV/Vid Productions can Tap into this for Leader Boards, and recognition too.

    Operators needs to be in control of free games on there games and not have you got 10 free games on ANY connected game any where.

    #774 35 days ago
    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    Scan QR code.
    Enter money and start a game.
    Flippers are locked and message from Stern pops up. Your subscription is past due. Please update your cc on file before you proceed. Any deviation will result in complete termination!

    and then the OP's get's an smashed up game.

    #775 35 days ago
    Quoted from mahony:

    Kinda like new cars. I'm unable to order the paint color I like unless I get the higher trim.

    new car smell is an $250 DLC now

    #778 35 days ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Ok, let me ask some elephant in the room sized questions. User story: I walk up to a connected machine with my buddy. We want to play doubles. We both log in with our Qr code. I have access to game modes my buddy does not due to my advanced status or even possibly due to my level of subscription. Does the machine use my profile and temporarily give access to the exclusive modes to my buddy, OR does it limit my access to the least common modes available to both players, OR does it limit my buddy but give me the advantage of access to modes he does not, thus allowing me to kick his ass?
    How will this affect head to head play on the machine? Is this a level playfield anymore? Or will we have to agree NOT to login so the machine treats us both the same? If this is true, then how do my achievements accumulate if we are always playing unconnected games? I think we need to see this in the wild, figure out the weak points and see where we end up. Personally I don't play a lot of location pinball, so all of this is moot to me really, but it would be nice to know going forward.

    also if your advanced status you can upgrade this one game for an XX fee billed to your account as the op just has basic on this game.

    #800 34 days ago

    now what about repair? Now you can't swap your main cpu board any more unless you have stern do an apple like repairing of the SN?

    #817 34 days ago
    Quoted from Gizmata:

    play, they each need their own subscription, or you scan in a family QR code so it unlocks the DLC but each kid doesn't get to see their own achievements.
    Which brings up a fun thought. If I copy the QR code of a Stern employee, would that give me access to the DLC? I wouldn't care about the achievements, but I could play the hidden modes and access all the content?

    also in tournament play Stern employee should be able to play if they scan in?? must scan in for all players in the game?

    -3
    #834 34 days ago

    how long before there an $1 per player stern fee top of the $1 ifpa fee per event? to use tournament stuff?

    #850 33 days ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Anyone else having it fail when you try and create an insider connected account? It keeps saying my gmail.com email domain is invalid which is odd given how ubiquitous gmail.com is.

    I thing it only works for stern ones for now

    #865 31 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Also had another thought...not sure if this has been raised before...with this system Stern could effectively force all payments for location games, ie coin take, to go through their platform and take a cut of every game. Like Apples App store purchases/subscriptions.
    Not sure they would be that brazen but it is Stern.

    or more like Have an added fee for online play. Starting at $0.25/game

    #871 30 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Depends if there is value in it for operator I guess - if Stern could prove it was driving increased coin take and simplfying their business model the operator might be happy.
    The other problem for some operators is that it takes out the cash element.

    Golden tee takes coins as well. And the per game fees for online play are billed to the ops. they also take CC / gift cards and put that on account for the op (some times they even sent an check to the op if the funds from them are higher then the cut they take out)

    #873 30 days ago
    Quoted from gblack:

    That's definitely where it could get odd. I wonder if they will allow someone to link a machine/game to an account.
    Example:
    - Dad has the paid IC account and a home game
    - Mom and kids have free IC accounts to keep track of their own achievements
    - Is the game registered as having a paid IC account? I'd hope they figured that out. Same concept would be for on-location plays.

    stern adds an Home Pro that is like the op's pro but with no coin op stuff. Just like golden tee?

    -2
    #881 28 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I actually wasn’t aware it was already happening in the Arcade space. Sounds like a likely outcome at some point.
    If it can show a benefit to the players and through that increase operators take, it makes sense. Like everything, there has to be value for everyone or it won’t work.

    just as long as stuff like prepaid credit only / only (modes) does not happen in tournament play unless when on free play that is locked out for all.

    And that prepaid credit only can really mess up comp games / balls.

    -2
    #883 28 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Every time you bring up how this might affect tournament play you're reminded that several of the best tournament players and organizers in the world are involved in creating and implementing it.

    and that gives them an some what legal way to setup an boost for them. Also the business man may just push for the more profit way look at the big names who QUIT STERN.

    #894 27 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Same feature - different approach and potential.
    It's kinda more a risk to things like the pinball challenges on that 3rd party app. With Scorebit there is the potential for both 1st party and 3rd party achievements.. and have it work across many different platforms.
    I'm kinda suprised Spooky and API haven't gotten on board. Would have helped the critical mass topic.. and now that Stern has shown their cards, maybe they will.

    API is working on scroebit.

    Spooky??

    -2
    #903 27 days ago
    Quoted from oyvindmo:

    With Insider Connected it would technically be possible to implement personalized audio preferences. You would set up your preferred balance between music, game callouts, achievement notifications, etc. as part of your Insider Connected profile, and the game could fetch this and adjust its settings accordingly when it's your turn to play.
    They may not have planned anything like that, but I would love that kind of functionality.

    that may be slow to download + the SD cards are not that big

    1 week later
    -2
    #1008 15 days ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    $40 is really cheap, I am pleasantly surprised by how reasonable it is. I have no understanding of what people mean by paywalled content? Is the expectation that everything should be free forever? This functionality didn't exist for many of the pins that support it. Is that still considered paywalled?

    $40 /year player and op's fees per game are??

    #1238 11 days ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    So Stern will charge $100 …

    + an new SD card
    + the node board
    + E-net cable
    + others

    #1273 10 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    There are more important questions... like why is the latency and throughput to their service point so bad.
    Our game was reporting over 1000ms latency and 500kb/sec throughput.. where other devices on same network were getting over 4meg down and 1meg up to public speed test sites. 1000ms latency is crazzzzy for anything domestic. Someone do some traffic inspection and see where their service point is. I gotta imagine this is pure application stuff at this point, those numbers are just pathetic for anything sitting on a normal datacenter site.
    4gig downloads at 500kb/sec? ouch...

    I hope that they don't need to download full update images to update. and do the SD cards have room for an 4G download file anyways?

    -1
    #1294 9 days ago
    Quoted from Flipstream:

    I can appreciate the complaint. However, I don't know if Apple's stance has changed from my prior experience. A company I used to work for had a problem trying to make a free utility app that could leverage built-in cameras for barcode scanning. We gave up trying to get it certified by Apple and went with a web UI and Bluetooth wedge scanners.
    They might kick back Stern's app since it requires external hardware to function (i.e. IC enabled pinball machines) and subscription fee options outside of Apple's ability to take a percentage cut.

    worse case is that apple wants 30% of the coin drop + 30% of the MSRP of the pinball game.

    #1313 8 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Welcome to the nebulous 'well what is the launch?' -- Presumably this is Expo.. not Godzilla launch.

    but people need to buy / get shipped / install the hardware on the older games.

    JJP is just get internet on to the game.

    #1327 6 days ago
    Quoted from Smack:

    George Gomez has mentioned that there will be "Treasure Chests" that can randomly be awarded, but I also think they mentioned being able to redeem Stern Coins for them. This could be coming sooner than you think. As to what is in these is anybody's guess.

    But will they pay ops for any free games given out? Or is that an op local thing?
    Also contest laws?
    One price listed was an full pinball machine just for getting entries into an price draw pool for things like that they need to have some kind of non need to buy something route and they may not be able to do that in all 50 states.

    #1344 6 days ago
    Quoted from bdaddy:

    He oversaw the ESPN+ subscription platform. The same platform that has increasingly put their best content behind paywalls, but only after the consumers are used to the content. Got people dependent on their fantasy football coverage and Berry's love/hate list and free agent waiver suggestions? Now it's behind a paywall. Like Mel Kiper's draft analysis and mock drafts? Now it's behind a paywall. All over ESPN they have articles which briefly touch on subjects and for the detailed analysis/reporting - yep, you have to login to ESPN+. Have ESPN and want to watch a college game? Yea, that 1 game is there - you want the other one though? Behind a paywall.
    That is what is coming to pinball. A future Jurrasic Park game might end when you get to Visitor Center. Want to do this "Escape Nebular Mode?" Here it is behind our IC Sub. Hey, you don't HAVE to buy it - this game is plenty fun just getting to the Visitor Center isn't it? This just makes it "better!". All those wizard modes in pinball games that get shipped unfinished and later flushed out with code mods - those are all going to be behind a paywall - you can bet on it. As was mentioned before, it's no coincidence they hire a guy with this background right after announcing IC. The 2 announcements are hand-in-hand.

    also with ESPN+ home and commercial use are billed differently.

    stern can make it that way as well. For commercial use games the ops may need to pay fees (may even per game) to unlock stuff. But for home use maybe just need to have the owner and or 1 play pay for it? or an home own can have all the games they want for 1 flat fee?

    and now need to buy ESPN+ and AN A TV SUB to get ALL in market NHL games (at least bars can get them all on directv need to pay for espn+ commercial)

    #1381 1 day ago
    Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

    A 1000 times yes to this. No way in hell they are considering product improvement with this. My AIQ shipped with a locked on pop bumper coil.

    stern wants the gold in golden tee

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