(Topic ID: 299309)

Stern Insider Connected

By anathematize

2 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

9 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1031 Notes directly from Stern's presentation to Stern Army members. Posted by chuckwurt (2 years ago)

Post #1043 Additional notes from the Stern presentation. Posted by Smack (2 years ago)

Post #2423 Stern Splitter for IC on Batman 66 and other amazingly loaded games! Posted by NeilMcRae (2 years ago)

Post #3320 Methods for leaderboards on location. Posted by davegauth (1 year ago)

Post #4641 Info regarding which chipsets in the dongles are likely to work. Posted by TrixTrix (1 year ago)

Post #4880 Sharing QR readers still works after Apr 20 2023 IC update Posted by ChrisBardon (12 months ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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-11
#37 2 years ago

Pretty disappointing first crack at connectivity honestly. This feels like a knee jerk response to Scorbit and not stepping back and finding ways to make the game more engaging for the player with no constraints. For example, why QR codes and not some sort of wireless connectivity like bluetooth or NFC? Another example, why not have a rich app that lets you see how you drained and helps you learn how to not drain the same way. Doing an awkward QR code dance for leaderboards and a personal scoreboards is a bit of a let down. Hopefully, this is just a v1 and they're thinking of more but pretty me too offering to start.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

QR codes are the path of least resistance and don't require new certification like a wireless connectivity would. I run the mobile development team at a golf simulator company and we use QR codes and 6-digit rotating codes because asking a user for another permission. Non tech savvy people know how to scan a QR code, it "just works".

Would an off the shelf Bluetooth or NFC module really require certification? Wouldn't the off the shelf radio module already have FCC and UL certifications and therefore Stern could just pull it in?

You're probably right on the QR code interaction being better for the normal player. I probably have a prejudice against them because of all the marketing people using them in such silly ways.

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

There's way more than what's being discussed or shown - be patient

Great to hear. Would love nothing more than seeing you guys be creative here and not just check the "connected" checkbox.

#54 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

Feels like it should've just been a wifi dongle and QR code on the apron (instruction card or sticker) itself instead of all of this complexity per game. Are they trying to save people needing a phone, like I'm going to print out my QR code at home since there's a reader in the game???
I heard George mention being able to have promotional QR codes that the game can read (free plays for good customers, etc.), but it feels like this is edge case-y and could've still been done via a stern phone app that just associates that with your account after you scan the promo QR code with your phone.
I can't imagine this will be less than $200 as an upgrade (probably higher)...Wifi dongle + QR code printout could've been like 30 bucks.

How would you associate game plays to players with just a QR code on the game? The only thing you could go off of is timestamps for the games and the timestamp of the player scanning the QR code into their phone. You'd have to do some sort of matching game on the backend which would unveil a slew of use cases that might not be accurate. For example, what if either the phone or the pinball machine are offline when the QR code is scanned or the game is started. While the solution sounds device centric, by scanning a players QR code you can at least accurately say this game is being played by player xyz and even store a bit of personalization in the QR code itself like player initials or name.

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

Just make 99%+ connectivity a requirement.

Not taking money unless there is internet connectivity is a pretty huge leap here.

#144 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Online connectivity is table stakes these days... they should add what is going to be hundreds of dollars in operator cost per game just so they can have temporary off-line functionality? That doesn't make sense IMO.

The network is reliable is the #1 fallacy of distributed computing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_distributed_computing

Agree with you that adding hardware costs is a questionable decision but Stern believes in this concept enough to at least find a UX that allows for the machine to store and send the game data when the machine is offline so it can send the data when the machine goes back online. Remember a lot of these machines are being setup in basements, rural areas and countries with poor ISPs, so network connectivity is not a given.

#155 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:Poor choice to die on here.
1) We're talking fixed locations
2) We're talking microscopic transactions - not 4k streaming media - we don't need high quality internet, just something that a few RESTful TCP https posts can survive
3) The whole thing is about being 'connected' -- Do you want to cripple adoption just to build for resiliency where the real game still works even without network?
Plus, the game (or app) is still going to require network somehwere... scanner or not -- so trying to make it work in a complete island scenario is over engineering.

We're making decisions based on the belief that the guys buying $8-12k toys can't afford to get wifi to their game room?
Or that we are putting $8-10k location pinballs in the random corner of rural america truck stops?
80/20 people... don't let the tail wag the dog.

It's a business decision dude and Stern made the decision that "table stakes" was not needing their users to need an internet connection. Again, I actually agree with you but for most IoT products Stern's decision to support offline is the norm especially when you have an HMI involved.

To answer your points directly.
1. Fixed locations helps wifi for reliability because you don't typically have handoffs and hops but see fallacy 5. Nothing stops the network topology around a static location from changing. ISPs can and do change the network. Locations can and do change their network equipment and in leased buildings it might be unknown and not under their control.
2. Most IoT doesn't use REST because HTTP is fat. MQTT, COAP, binary or protocol buffers are the norm.
3. again a business decision that Stern believes getting game data is valuable enough to build more reliability than just a network

#167 2 years ago

I think we're saying the same things just differently flynnibus and debating semantics.

My knee jerk reaction was why not just put a $5 bluetooth radio in the machines for us die hards and build a super rich experience. Stern obviously believes that getting an average person to download an app or signup on a website to track their games is incredibly valuable. So, they are going to jump through a a lot of hoops to make that happen including offloading all network requirements to their device. The addition of the QR scanner on the machine itself is curious though because in a morning it feels like we've already come up with 2-3 software only solutions already that seem comparable. The most curious use case they are supporting is the not needing a smart phone. I envy the people that don't need have a smart phone but that 1 use case seems to be the hard one to overcome without the need to get the user to identify their profile, in this case with a QR code.

#226 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

As much as I don't like Stern's seemingly Rube-Goldberg-like approach to this problem, I will commend them for not making people connect via fucking Bluetooth or NFC.
...I wonder if they started with NFC, figured out it would suck, and said "fuck it, swap it out that POS in the apron for a QR reader instead"?

Yeah, as we've talked all this through the decision makes a lot of sense. They want the average person to create an account and a QR code is the least friction. As much as I'd like to believe that bluetooth could work here the last thing any player would want on location is to deal with pairing. Although, bluetooth 5 theoretically does have better non-pairing functions but then you run into only newer phones supporting bluetooth 5 and no support for people without phones. Agree on the NFC, god that tech is just an absolute disaster for anything real.

Apologies to Stern, my knee jerk reaction on the use of QR reader was dead wrong. Hoping this turns out amazing and we look back in a couple of years and can't even remember playing without connectivity. I look forward to printing out my profile's QR code and dropping quarters.

#278 2 years ago

Think this will come with an open API? I know scorbit had that on their backlog.

#387 2 years ago
Quoted from oradke:

Does anyone know if there's gonna be any kind of API? Would be cool if tournament software could be linked or someone could program IFTTT or Discord bots etc. My guess is they'll keep it closed source though.

Was wondering the same thing. It would be great if there was an API.

#439 2 years ago

In GG we trust.

1 month later
#1214 2 years ago

Privacy policy for IC was actually better than I thought it'd be. I was expecting clauses for selling your data straight up but that's not in the privacy policy yet. Two biggest red flags were geolocation collection and sharing your data for joint promotions. Geolocation is weird because they already know the location of the game so why track the player?

2 years later
#5275 5 months ago
Quoted from mdeslaur:

Seriously, all they need to do is make their cookie last longer. It's a single one-line change. I don't get why they haven't done this yet. Are they afraid someone is going to steal my pinball identity?

The only thing I can think of is that the auth token is shared with their store. So, if it was compromised, someone could get payment info.

3 weeks later
#5462 4 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

Just gonna say, while it does sound funny at first, the "Sorry, that didn't work" message on failed logins is pretty common among modern apps and websites. Microsoft things will generally spit out "Sorry, something went wrong" anytime there's an exception. The "didn't work" message was probably built into whatever platform Stern is building Insider on.

That and even the most innocuous messages can be a security vulnerability. It's too easy to accidentally expose inner workings.

1 week later
#5532 4 months ago
Quoted from tatapolus:

And quite a few had to have „their parents“ approve their account… why?

The account probably has a birthdate under 13.

In the United States, you cannot collect personal data for anyone under 13 without the parent's permission because of the COPPA law. In the EU, GDPR protects personal data of children under 13-16 without parental permission.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act

https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/how-my-personal-data-protected/can-personal-data-about-children-be-collected_en

#5541 4 months ago

The latest firmware calls api.sternpinball.io when booting regardless of setting 55. I pulled a pcap before any of the new videos started being downloaded, so not sure if the ads are coming from their cdn or their API domain. Hopefully, the former so when they get ad blocked, the rest of insider connect still works.

1 month later
#5717 3 months ago

Per the Gomez & Elwin video for Jaws, 4:10 mark, you "connect with your chums and collect shark teeth to unlock special modes."

2 months later
#5996 43 days ago
Quoted from dtrimberger:

They're going to need to hire a Phd in statistics to keep us happy though it seems

Or just use median and not mean then the Eric Stones of the world would need to play non-stop to really change the outcome of the population.

1 week later
#6075 37 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead_:

Shoulda weighted scores by percentile. It's data they already track.
If you're averaging 80th percentile for GZ your points are weighted against people who have a 20th percentile average.

Yeah, since they are already batch processing all of this anyway, you might as well use percentile or 50th percentile (median). That solves the Eric Stone problem.

They still need a way to normalize the games though to remove the BM66 skew. That's a hard problem. You can use a weighted average per game but the leaderboard becomes a head scratcher that would require a decoder ring.

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