As a opperator I think this is going to be AMAZING. Will keep people playing. Going to locations. It can run tournaments on its own. Which right now I have to be there in person to run. It could be a game changer for us. Very excited for this.

Have they announced a price yet, you not worried this might be priced like a topper, how many pins would you be looking to upgrade. Just curious what guys with lots of pins on route would think? If it was me I would be pissed at the wasteful hardware costs.

awesome! i'm around a lot. ask for me.

They want the game to recognize you as a player so they need to have the reader as well.

In the video just posted today, George even addresses the games with unique aprons and that they will have a solution.

These "gotchas" folks are coming up with are addressed already in most cases.

Everyone has a phone with a reader in their pocket, why not just print the QR out and stick it in the apron card. Even that is old tech, logins these days are like 6 digit that could easily be displayed on the LCD. You wouldn't even need to scan. I am sure almost everyone has logged in to an app on a smart TV. If the hardware cost is a few dollars then I guess it isn't a big deal. I am not getting that feeling though.

I'm not against the QR code but the reader just seems pointless.

No they don't... this can be done without a reader. This is the path they have taken for other reasons then just 'they want the game to recognize you'

No, the apron discussion is someone asking where they are different because Stern told them they were different and they didn't understand where the difference was.

I assume the camera in the game is to make sure the player is actually at the table.

You could take a picture of a QR code in the game and scan it when you weren't at the game, which would confuse the person about to play it or worse.

Imagine sitting across the room and signing in all evening while others are trying to play the game, just to entertain yourself.

If the QR code was just printed on put in the apron card and you logged in by scanning it with your phone it is the exact same thing. Why install a scanner when every one has one in their pocket. Why would you put the QR code on the phone and the scanner on the pin?

Oh hai Stern!

(I guess I live in NJ now lol)

Stern_Insider.png

Stern_insider2.png

That's pretty funny!

George explains why they made the decisions. For speed. For ease of use. Some folks just want to argue. Thats fine. Enjoy.

I don't think its an argument its just an observation (Well everything can be an argument here but I am not trying to make this one). You would need to log in to your phone to get the QR code then scan it in the pin, I guess you could do it at home and carry the code around with you. One way requires more hardware in the pin and more costs. It just doesn't seem justifiable, like I said though if this kit is $50 then who cares.

Anyone have a guess what the hardware will cost? I keep hearing $600-$1000 in price increase and that sounds insane.

Sure he has. You bet. Why do I need to take your word for it. You didn't cite and references.

I don't care if it's been a thought in his brain from the 60s or not

It's not fully fleshed out... And I'm sure he did this under competitive pressure. This isn't innovative... Its a copy.

But like anything, it's up for debate because this is pinside

P3 has zero social media game. Stern does, and that's what this new product leverages. They have games on location, location players will use this to have fun. No one knows P3 games exist. Other than "internet", this isn't even remotely like anything P3 is up to, really.

I don't believe it's for my location. I do hope it's successful for Stern and commend them for trying new things.

Pinball as we know it is changing for the future.

LTG : )

I mean, if a game came with it, why not leverage it? You could put out a message that would go out to all the people signed up (or at least the local ones, I'd guess) telling them you have the newest game....or that game is running a tournament, or by playing that game, they can win prizes from Stern. Seems like a winner for ops...free advertising for your location.

Tournaments can be a plus or minus for a business.

I've found for my location they were a minus. After almost 49 years I've learned what is good for my business and what isn't.

Not true of every location. It may be a huge plus for others.

LTG : )

Nice features and possibilities to make this a great addition. I am curious for the price tag in this feature, it's just a QR code reader and some software.

Time will tell.

the price increase likely has nothing to do with this. They were raising the prices anyways ($1000 on premiums for example) and we heard those rumors before this was announced and you can already see it indicated on distributors sites. This is just going to be a new feature that is included in those premiums, that were going to cost $1000 extra anyways. Look at it this way, JPP did a price increase with no added functionality - at least here we're getting some new feature on the machines shipping out starting next month. If this feature somehow wasn't ready to deliver for another year, I don't think they'd stop the price increase from happening - it was already in the works, using supply and demand as the arguments for increase (like JPP did).

The solution to your scenario is a simple dynamic challenge. Instead of a static QR code, you create a dynamic QR code that includes a runtime element.. that way only someone who could grab the code 'now' can do it.

Bob steps up to the game as player 1... game shows a QR code on the screen for player 1.. bob scans... app goes to cloud, association linked. Player 1 is now bob
Jim steps up on their turn... game shows a QR code on screen for player 2... jim scans.. app goes to cloud, association linked, game now knows Player 2 is jim.

Or, you could use the same code for all players and make the cloud/app do some collision/state work to place players accurately.

This is the same company that cuts pennies from material costs and $5 toys out of a game to optimize costs and you all are arguing that adding $50 in hard costs is justified without a firm use case that requires it. Kinda like you believe a topper is worth $500 just because that's what they set the price at...

No, some folks want to understand and be convinced - not simply be dictated to

The real reason they used a reader on the game....5nqagj (resized).jpg

well getting confused how it works.
what i got is that you create an account online and print/save out your personal QR-Code.
You go to a Pinball machine and scan the QR-Code. The Pinball Machine will log on to cloud with your personal QR-Code and send the stats your gamplay.
The cloud will then calculate any throphys, achievements and so on with the stats send from the Pinball Machine.

in the video i was able to see something about free plays on machines with an reached achievement.

I am not sure how it should work in any other way, when you want to give out free games and have the stats of the machine coming to the cloud.

Not sure if this is something i like, but it will be in future machines and we have to see whats coming up. Time will tell.

I agree with you, but people were suggesting you just scan a static QR code on the apron and it log you in. I could just see some jokers grabbing pictures of the QR codes off the display games at Expo and trying to log into them every few minutes to watch (or imagine) the confusion they were causing. Anyways, the QR code on the apron only takes you to their website to create an account I believe.

For a dynamic QR code they should have built an LCD in the apron which could have been used in all games to give you live information (timers, shot suggestion, tilt warning) and not just be a dedicated camera that is only used to read a QR code assuming someone wants to use it. Otherwise, they would need to put a large QR code on the backbox LCD, and you could aim your phone at it, which would have worked, but it takes up real estate on the LCD during that login time at least.

Does anyone know if there's gonna be any kind of API? Would be cool if tournament software could be linked or someone could program IFTTT or Discord bots etc. My guess is they'll keep it closed source though.

No like a business card holder style sleeve
That you can put printed cards in maybe a keychain

Yeah but the guy who did Pindigo doesn't own any pins. BOOO Brendan! I hope you read this!

Raw thrills is using the same sort of system on the new Big Buck games and HALO

To me this seems both very over and very under engineered. I don't know the market data but at home this is all over kill. Show a code on the screen and I log in on any internet device this is a one time thing. On location or a tournament just give each pin a simple ID and you can enter or scan. The only retrofit should be wifi if it isn't available. Everything else is software that no one should ever care about.

I'm going to call it now, between $150 - $200 USD.

BRB adding a new Patreon goal

If you are correct I think this should be a major hit for Stern. I just think of like what you get with a topper compared to the cost of goods and I think this could easily be double that.

I dunno, I like this thing. I kind of dig the idea of getting profile achievements and stuff, but I don't know if I would pay a yearly fee for it for my home pins personally. On location it will be fun though

I'm really looking forward to putting even more money into your games when they get the readers installed! I have to agree, I think its going to be a hit on location

I will finally stop being a spitelord when you reach that goal and get a game but you already know this haha!

If you're concerned about that, then a code on the LCD screen like the jackbox family of party games would suffice. (I.e.: You don't even need QR codes...)

drawful2lobby (resized).jpg

Was wondering the same thing. It would be great if there was an API.

ToPS are a great way to boost earnings on games that dont get love. we usually end up with a prize pool of over $300. Having a way for people to participate at any time of the day by themselves if they dont like the pressure of groups is a great way to get more people invested.

Ok so after watching the video this looks very beneficial for operators to keep the general public engaged!

Don't think I'll be adding to my home collection but will keep an open mind after the launch for sure.

My only real concern is how it'll look on my game. The images sure do look ugly. And it appears to take up a ton of space. Zombie Yeti mentioned having art around the stuff. But I'm guessing that's for new games going forward. I don't really want to lose what I've got on my TMNT. Wonder if I can put it on my coin door.

I love the features that it could add however. Achievements are always kind of fun because it's your own personal progression. Sure you can cheat to get them. But what's the fun in that? Sure you can cheat to get achievements in other video games. But you know you never accomplished them.

To which you postulated the sensor was there for... yes obvious it's there to ID the player... the point is that's not NEEDED to link a player and game, and they haven't yet presented a case where it justifies all that extra PER GAME vs alternatives that are cheaper.

No - that's even worse! The whole point is how to make the system work with existing games and technology... and reduce added cost to each unit. You don't add what you don't need! You have a huge LCD at the back of the game that is easily seen by the player and drawing their eyes too. Just put your prompts and QR information up there. There is no fighting for real-estate because you don't need the QR code stuff except when starting players or finishing a game.

Literally when the game says "Player 1 is up!" - make that a screen that shows generic player and encourage the player to scan the QR code to get signed in... even make the 'player 1 is up' screen show people's avatars they can customize, etc. This is all shit Stern controls!

I think the idea of 'verified' achievements having a greater value is a good thing for Ops.

I think that is a wonderful idea. I think that would have been a much cleaner solution since it wouldn't have added hardware costs to all machines.

I can only guess they want to scan the players QR code so some functionality would continue if the internet or servers were not available, so the machine could save the game information and upload it later once the connection/server was functioning again. There may be some reason we have no yet thought of that justifies the added cost of the camera in the apron to scan QR codes.

That part was a confusing one to me: so if we drop 8-10k on a game for our homes, to participate fully we would have to go play it on location? Just to prove we had the glass on? What about ops that are cheaters?

That part just seems a bit half baked to me, unless I am totally missing something.

It's just incentive... it's not meant to be foolproof. Just a way to give value to location play while also acknowledging the obvious 'home owners can open the game' point.

Plus, static QR code is worse for player security.

"Look, I printed off a QR code so I don't have to use my phone!".

Three beers later:

"Fuck, I lost my card!"

Now some dingus has your card. Maybe not a big issue in the scheme of things, but a dynamic security QR code that the pin generates and displays on the screen has other benefits, not just eliminating a QR reader from each pin.

Its more to incentivize people to go to the arcade. Im sure there will be a base level of anti-cheat and when an exploit will be found it will be fixed. Also im sure Stern will pull certifications from locations that are caught so why would an operator risk it?

I have 14 Stern games at my arcade. I hope they have an easy way to enter passwords for wifi instead of using flipper buttons. Also these kits need to be cheap or free for operators which sadly i dont think they will be.

Yup.. think goldentee where players have fully customized avatars for when the player is up or on a scoreboard.. That's huge incentive to people and why IGT has banked millions over it. I mean, it's not like Stern is starting from scratch here...

Now you're catching up to yesterday...

Been saying this since announcement... they need a better justification than 'don't need a phone' and 'network resiliency' -- Those are pretty weak choices in 2021.

I bet a bracket of some sort could be fashioned for the bill validator cutout. Good idea.

Until you remember the reader connects to the node boards up on the PF which goes up and down and in and out

You could likely replace the RJ-45 cable they give you to run it back around to the top of the PF and back through the cabinet towards the door.. but you need to jumper in power too.

And fill in the hole with something you just created in the apron...

Seem like a lot of effort to avoid looking at a white square