Thanks! Will definitely be ordering a retro kit for my TMNT Premium.

With this, I could see Stern games not selling as many units as before..

With some other people’s coding Like putting original film/programmes in - like JP & TMNT cartoons in, and sound packages like Cleland's GOTG,

Would you not say that this attracted people to buy these titles?
Sterns code better be up to scratch going forward
With no possibility of changing code to better Sterns offerings, this might deter people from
Buying..

It is a valid concern. Statistically the longer you engage or interact with a product the more likely you are to buy another product. The coding modifications people are doing keep the product fresh and it keeps people engaged. That in turns makes them more likely to buy in the future. So long as Stern provides alternate ways for people to stay engaged they should not lose any sales. They just need to ensure there are enough achievements or post launch content to keep people active. If they don't have enough new content and they take away peoples ability to engage themselves with a pin then they could be in some trouble. Stern has kinda been lucky lately that the mod community is so strong in pinball. That community has been driving engagement. Stern is just trying to take that market over. They don't really have a choice when you have licensed content you have to limit how much people can mess with it or the licensor will get pissed.

I'll say this much, code generally has little effect on me because I'm not a good pinball player. I never get to wizard modes or any of the deeper stuff, in fact the only pins I've ever "completed" have been Time Machine and Elvira And The Party Monsters. Games are so deep now I have no hope in hell of seeing most of anything that they offer. So for a weak amateur player like me, even 0.75 code can be enough because while I love pinball, I still suck at it.

I'm with you, i look for breadth in code early on so i don't keep playing the same 2 modes over and over again. JP was bad for me, had it rented for a month, but 90% of the time i was playing the first 3 paddocks over and over since I'm not good enough to advance further most of the time.

It's difficult for coders to cater to both, breadth and depth at the same time, and they currently tend to favor depth. That's why I'm excited for this because it gives Stern an incentive to revisit and add things later which some of it may be what I'm looking for.

These mods are amazing. The JP code from timlah79 is epic....but people modding in that way must be in the vast minority, percentage wise of total sales...

I suspect we will know a heck of a lot more in 1 week. There is a Stern Army presentation re: Insider Connected on Oct 6th.

Are the insider connected machines not going to be able to have their code modded(IE:Timlah79 JP code)?

That is correct, At least we believe that to be the case.

Unknown at this point. The concern is that Stern could now validate the currently installed software to ensure it hasn't been modified, and Insider Connected may not work if so.

There are a lot of reasons not to buy a new Stern game. The possibility that assets won’t be changeable by DIYers isn’t one of them …

Nobody knows for sure but I would wager that if the new code to support Insider Connected can be altered like the old code to replace assets, Insider Connected is going to be able to tell that it has changed and IC functionality likely will not work. You will also have identified yourself to Stern.

err what snakesnsparklers said

OK so can you turn off or disable the insider connected/IC so it wouldn't cause issues? Example, if you could put custom code on it, you would have it disconnected from Stern.

Not sure why nobody from the podcasts or other interviews haven't asked that exact question. Seems like a pretty big one to me.

Probably because you are not allowed to do that

Am I still going to be able to hack your code and insert assets you couldn't secure? I am sure someone can ask. Maybe someone can ask how we can still get around it.

Just catching up on this now. Has there been any announcement regarding games pre connect? Godzilla obviously has its apron artwork designed around insider connect, is there new aprons and artwork being released for games pre connect like AIQ, TMNT, Mando etc?

This will most likely use Wi-Fi. If you have control over the network you have the ability to allow/block devices as you see fit.

Complete details on exactly what the effects/benefits/drawbacks isn’t public knowledge yet. Since the feature set will be evolving as it matures I think you'll have to keep up with the latest news about it to know what's currently going on.

Its not just disconnect - but they will likely put more controls over what software to load. Worst case, keep running your old code. But new games may not get custom loads at all.

It all depends on how aggressive stern gets at auditing and confirming its own verified loads (digital signatures etc)

likely they will be very aggressive.
1) they are already being aggressive in trying to shutdown custom code, such that the past few releases of code has been changed so that Pinball Browser had to adapt to even work with it. It seems the only reason they were doing those changes were to thwart software that can manipulate the code (probably to protect themselves for copyright reasons.)

2) Even ignoring point #1, if they are being strict enough to only allow "verified" locations to register certain achievements in IC, they are likely going to be concerned someone isn't able to take advantage of achievements by manipulating the code in some manner - so they will want to have "verifiable" code on insider connect devices to make sure that doesn't happen.

To me the best we can hope for is that we can run 2 different versions of code - 1 with insider connect, 1 with custom code - and you just switch in and out with whatever you want. I think the idea of being able to run custom code AND have insider connect features at the same time is not very likely. But at this point we don't know if we'll even get the former, much less the latter.

Lol! No chance Stern would allow this.

I think it’s to show licensors they are proactive about protecting IP licensors allow them access to.

The efforts to date have been to make it harder to manipulate assets, but hasn't taken on integrity, signing, etc. That's what will be the big issue where modified code won't run at all.. otherwise if it's still just 'make it harder to mod' you'll just be stuck running old builds. If Stern moves to blocking non-verified software all together, new games won't have that option to run code before that feature was added... and old games won't get new features added after the change.

I seriously doubt Stern is going to change their IP protection strategy based on if you are connected or not.. makes no sense for them to do that if their intent is to secure the IP to appease the license holders.

And don't expect Stern to put much effort into 'verified' locations and protecting that.

Georges Gomez said in the Deadflip's Godzilla Pro reveal stream that we will be able to log into Insider Connected next wednesday!

At least we know what Tanio has been going all this time since Deadpool. Hopefully once connect is up and running he gets the chance to go back to code a game his work on deadpool was brilliant!

That's what George Gomez said in the episode 30 of Another Pinball Podcat in late June.

Thanks man I’ll give that a listen as I don’t normally listen to that particular podcast.

I noticed in the Godzilla stream that the ladies playing were able to track their achievements on the machine on their smart phones after each ball.
I also noticed that when they scanned their QR code in the machine to start the game, their initials came up on the machine display to show who was playing and in what order.
Based on that observation, it would appear that a printout of your QR code could be scanned in to start a game and achievements could be observed later on with a computer at home, as was previously mentioned in this thread and a smart phone is probably not required to utilize the QR device, unless you want to track your achievements after each ball.

I think the whole Insider Connected program is going to be huge for Stern and will only help grow pinball. Stern has created a cohesive platform for Insider Connected with a ton of options for players and operators. Scorebit is cool but it's not on the same level as what Stern is doing, not even close. I plan to buy a kit for my TMNT Premium as soon as I can.

Yeah no duh…. This has been covered multiple times. Its the only justification given by stern so far as why they need a reader in the game… they think people will print out qr codes ahead of time. Of course you can review your achievements later…. Thats why you have a profile…. Persistence

I wonder if there‘s any chance to add legacy machines to the system. Perhaps an interface between Scorbit and Insider Connect? That would create a world of new possibilities.

In my brief conversation which George, it sounded like Stern has no intention of looking back. The past is the past and Spike 2 is the future.

I imagine they may vault some old games that have enough popularity in ordered to integrate them with Insider Connected.

I can’t see Stern running any vaults while they have this huge backlog of games, weren’t vaults created to keep the lines busy? They can’t produce current games fast enough, so I can’t see them using time on the line to run vaults while that is the case.

And the future is spike 3

Hopefully this new Stern Insider Connected is faster than loading game code. I am loading new Mandalorian code and it takes about 30 minutes with this

SpeedTest (resized).png

You must live at the webhost with a ping like that and I thought my 200 Mbps speed was decent.

Every game they produce was created to keep the lines busy, yes, including Vaults. And if the factory is as backed up as reported, then they wouldn't need to add more to the mix (until that changes).

I agree -- sure it could end up being the Orwellian disaster some are predicting -- but I'm pretty confident that Stern isn't going to gimp machines that don't participate (well, 57% confident). Hell, they know their core audience is not from the generation that grew up with this stuff so I'm hopeful they'll tread carefully.

Personally, all I really want is an easy way for other people in my family to be able to keep track of high scores and progress. My wife used to bring a notebook down to record her high scores, but it sure made her day when she would set a villain high score in BM66 and get to enter her initials. If this stuff could automatically be recorded in the cloud where she could see it on one of her iDevices that would be a huge step in the right direction.

I know people freak about high score boards being dominated by cheaters or easy machines, but you face the same sort of things in digital pinball and the global high score board is still useful. I know I won't ever be #1 or close to it, but it's still fun to try and climb the ladder wherever I end up. It's just another reason to keep trying to get better.

It's also a brilliant business decision by Stern. Every company wants a monthly fee, no matter how small. As long as Stern makes paying the monthly fee truly optional (you still get the same full features we do now) then I think it's a win for everyone. If Stern pushes it, though, and basically makes everyone feel like they have to pay to get the full experience, then yeah -- that would suck.

Anyway, I'm kind of priced out of new pinball machines but this seems like a cool way to make my BM66 more interesting to play. Fingers crossed.

I think a lot of this insider stuff was originally designed to bring in younger players on location and stern have tagged it onto the home owner playing against another home owner tag line following the changes we have seen worldwide due to covid.

My better half’s younger brother for example he’s 13 or 14 I never remember exactly but he has zero interest in my pins, doesn’t matter the theme he just doesn’t care for it at all, same goes for his mate that often pops round with him.

He was round the other day and I mentioned connect in passing and the fact he can now have an online profile, achievements and use his phone he is suddenly into the idea of playing and even played a few dozen games.

It’s worth remembering this is not likely aimed at us, we already love pinball and buy the games, it’s all about bringing in new players and new buyers.

Sorry, I’m a little out of the loop right now. Has anyone actually seen the hardware/retrofit kit yet, or at least any documentation on how to install it?

Nope. I doubt retro fit kits are available anytime soon.

I thought October was mentioned in the Godzilla stream?

That’s when insider goes live I think. I assumed all parts were being used to put it into games then retro kits came later.

Once we see the code updates to allow the older games to support it, I bet it will ship shortly after that.

I think you are half right. I think it is designed for younger plays but I think this all about the home market. Stern wants all of our kids and younger friends to become home players and not just inherit pins they have no interest in. Stern has to see the writing on the wall of a massive part of the demographic aging out.

The whole "verified" achievement thing I think is pure marketing. The only routes I see this working on is barcades and pubs with strong health pin crowds that are running leagues and tournaments. Those locations would probably get a lot of sign ins and people enjoying the functionality. Sadly I think those places are already doing just fine so it is just going to be operators putting money in to appreciate their already loyal base.

Gomez said the site will be enabled for logins on Wed. The current site has compatible games at launch which would require retro fit kits to be available. It mentions the kits on the “how it works” page as well. https://insider.sternpinball.com/insider/compatible-games

My assumption is this will be further revealed tomorrow in Stern’s monthly “Stern of the Union” the day before Gomez said the insider site will be officially live.

Dang. Really looking forward to seeing the hardware itself, but don’t wanna splash out $300 on one.

I just noticed that Insider All Access ($40 a year) says: "Coming Soon - access to special game related content". So not surprisingly, it looks like we will have to pay to get all the features of Insider Connected. I guess I was hoping with the big price increase on games that would not be the case. I guess as long as All Access stays at $40 a year it's not a real big cost...but still...

On bare principle, the paywalled content is a little grating. But in the context of pinball I think it's more than acceptable. You *easily* spend more than $40 with any order you make to Pinball Life, Marco, Comet, Titan, etc... If $40 a year is enough of a revenue stream for Stern to rationalize the development of more pinball content, I'm all for it.

$40 is really cheap, I am pleasantly surprised by how reasonable it is. I have no understanding of what people mean by paywalled content? Is the expectation that everything should be free forever? This functionality didn't exist for many of the pins that support it. Is that still considered paywalled?

The expectation is that the cost of fully completed software is included in the development BOM of any given game.

I said early that there needs to be some definition of complete. I think every insert is implemented and the number of modes/wizard modes are listed. Adding online functionality or new modes years later is fair game as new content. Stern did get themselves into this mess with the state of code in games and how long it takes them to get it to "complete" if ever. Also shit like the UV kit was completely offside, everyone clearly paid for the feature up front.