(Topic ID: 299309)

Stern Insider Connected

By anathematize

50 days ago


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    #701 39 days ago
    Quoted from Dent00:

    George Gomez mentioned in his post that all Spike 2 games would be eligible.
    Avengers, Deadpool, Jurassic Park, Led Zeppelin, Mandalorian, TMNT, and the next released game (Godzilla).

    Thanks, I personally can’t wait to see what they have in store for us.

    -6
    #702 38 days ago

    Stern connect would make sense as a business model if location pinball was responsible for the growth in the hobby over the last 10 years, but it’s not! Denying that very fact is why this will fail. This should be a free enhancement paid for by the game price increase, with its main purpose being to drive engagement both at home and within locations. So let me get this straight, operators are going to get a huge price increase and in addition, they are going to have to pay a monthly or yearly fee for this crap. What do you fools think is going to happen?? Location pinball prices are going to rise, creating a much larger barrier in driving new pinheads to this hobby. Cute idea, but outdated and anyone with any business sense can see this will fail. This innovation was not built using customer data for some unmet need, this was built on greed and ambition for profit. Once again, Where is my Bluetooth!!!!

    #703 38 days ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    So let me get this straight, operators are going to get a huge price increase and in addition, they are going to have to pay a monthly or yearly fee for this crap.

    Where did you hear/read that this was happening?

    #704 38 days ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    This should be a free enhancement paid for by the game price increase, with its main purpose being to drive engagement both at home and within locations.

    Which is exactly what it is, as best we know at this time. They are increasing the game price (planned already) and as this is coming out at the same time as the increase, it's expected that both are tied together and there will not be additional cost added for this "enhancement" over the already rumored price increases.

    I guess that could change but nothing I've seen so far in various threads/articles contradicts that.

    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    So let me get this straight, operators are going to get a huge price increase and in addition, they are going to have to pay a monthly or yearly fee for this crap.

    Nothing we've seen so far indicates it's a subscription fee. We only have posts by others worried it's going to EVENTUALLY be a subscription fee, but that is conjecture with no substance other than their personal feelings, and doesn't even align with what Gomez said in the video.

    #705 38 days ago
    Quoted from Dent00:

    :
    I don't use a cell phone for access to the internet.
    I use a computer for that with wifi access on broadband.
    I don't use facebook or any other apps of any kind, especially from a cell phone.
    The phone makes phone calls and sends SMS text messages for free, so if there is any charge for data, it is too much.
    I don't think I should have to pay anything for "data" on a cell phone that I never use, but that is just my opinion.

    On the YouTube page with the demonstration video on use of a smart phone to logon online and play a machine equipped with the QR code access device, the comment response on that page indicate that wifi access from the machine being used to the local establishment is in the works.

    -1
    #706 38 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    Where did you hear/read that this was happening?

    It’s blatantly obvious a monthly subscription will occur for op’s. This is how all vending is going. I’m not super excited to see the fee structure but I assume it’s around $20 per mo per game.

    #707 38 days ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Location pinball play prices are going to rise, creating a much larger barrier in driving new pinheads to this hobby. Cute idea, but outdated and anyone with any business sense can see this will fail. This innovation was not built using customer data for some unmet need, this was built on greed and ambition for profit. Once again, Where is my Bluetooth!!!!

    I think the idea is that achievements (and the pavlov-ian response to earning them) are expected to do a better job of getting players hooked. How many times have you seen someone walk up to a machine they don't understand, knock the ball around for ~3 minutes, and walk away with a look on their face like "what the hell did I just play THAT for?" Achievements give that type of player a breadcrumb trail to follow to keep them playing (read: inserting more quarters, learning more about the game rules, coming back to play the same machine again later, getting into the hobby, considering buying one for their basement, etc).

    Interested new player signs up, plays their first game, and gets a low-hanging achievement for starting their first mode. "Oh, ok-- I see what's going on here." Then they play again to see if they can *finish* a mode-- new achievement, nice. Then it's an achievement for multiball, scoring a super jackpot, completing 5 modes in a game, etc. What could have been a total earnings of $1 is now an earnings of $7 because they played more games. Maybe they're buzzed enough that they share it on social media or convince a friend to come play with them ("Look, our names are up on the screen!"). Operator doesn't have to increase the cost per play if there are more people playing, and playing more games each session.

    Next time that person thinks about going out and playing pinball, they may be more likely to do so because there's "progress" to be made. Even if they're not a great player yet, they can still have fun earning a few achievements. I'm not an operator, so maybe I'm overly optimistic about revenue this might help generate. But as a player I think it's awesome.

    The data collection and tools that they have in the works for operators seem like they would certainly rationalize any fees or subscriptions that *might* be coming. Again-- not an operator. Outside looking in.

    EDIT: also, don't forget-- the machine still accepts coins if you choose not to use the Stern IC features.

    #708 38 days ago

    Yeah Stern didn’t develop all these operator tools out of the kindness of their hearts, it was probably a very expensive software build, when they do start charging subscriptions, it’s a huge money making opportunity for them.

    Someone is going to have to pay the fees, it’s hard enough to make money on pinballs that cost as much as they do now, I do see price increases to play at a location happening due to this.

    #709 38 days ago
    Quoted from pinballkyle:

    It’s blatantly obvious a monthly subscription will occur for op’s. This is how all vending is going. I’m not super excited to see the fee structure but I assume it’s around $20 per mo per game.

    I disagree that it's "blatantly obvious," of course it's possible but I'm personally much more interested in what is confirmed to be happening rather than what every random pinball fan THINKS Stern will ultimately do with this technology.

    #710 38 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    I disagree that it's "blatantly obvious," of course it's possible but I'm personally much more interested in what is confirmed to be happening rather than what every random pinball fan THINKS Stern will ultimately do with this technology.

    I’ve been in this industry for a long, long time, to me it’s blatantly obvious it’s going to happen. I wouldn’t call myself a ‘random pinball fan’ I run an arcade with 25 pinballs, and I route games at several locations.

    I have a gut feeling that this stern insider will be free or cheap for home use, but at a much higher price point for Op’s.

    #711 38 days ago
    Quoted from pinballkyle:

    I’ve been in this industry for a long, long time, to me it’s blatantly obvious it’s going to happen. I wouldn’t call myself a ‘random pinball fan’ I run an arcade with 25 pinballs, and I route games at several locations.

    I have a gut feeling that this stern insider will be free or cheap for home use, but at a much higher price point for Op’s

    I think you're missing my point (starting with my initial comment/question) in that I'm more interested in confirmed features, costs, requirements, etc. rather than just speculation, even if your experience in pinball informs your current expectations.

    I certainly think there is room for speculation and discussion but I keep seeing people say things they expect or that are "blatantly obvious" but saying them in a way that implies it's an actual thing and not just their opinion. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

    As an operator, how do you think operators in general would respond to Stern Insider Connected for "free" and as a subscription service? Do you think it will increase earnings to have it enabled? Especially enough to justify an additional expense.

    #712 38 days ago
    Quoted from pinballkyle:

    I’ve been in this industry for a long, long time, to me it’s blatantly obvious it’s going to happen. I wouldn’t call myself a ‘random pinball can’ I run an arcade with 25 pinballs, and I route games at several locations.

    If you are the logo I see around town, this could be a significant monthly hit. Plus the cost to retrofit it just doesn't seem to add up for operators. I don't know anything about the coin op business vs home market but I would think there is a lot more juice to squeeze at the home market. It has to be pretty razor tight on route especially right now, I can't imagine an operator jumping on this unless there was a very strong evidence that all cost would easily be covered in the increased revenue. I used to try and play on route once a week, but I haven't been able to in like 18 months, that coin drop must have taken a pretty significant hit. It's not the time to ask for investment from operators, it feels like now is the time to make it free for operators, to help them recuperate.

    #713 38 days ago

    This is a long thread about a QR code

    203CC28D-BDA9-4262-8543-469B6C2DD8CF.gif
    #714 38 days ago

    I wonder if the app could help newbies understand the machines? Like offering rules or even tutorials after logging in? I‘m thinking along the lines if what PinballArcade offers. If you help newbies understand the game, they‘ll have more fun playing, eventually dropping more coin as well instead of giving up out of frustration or ignorance.

    #715 37 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    As an operator, how do you think operators in general would respond to Stern Insider Connected for "free" and as a subscription service? Do you think it will increase earnings to have it enabled? Especially enough to justify an additional expense.

    Free=great! Let’s try it out.
    Subscription=Let’s let them earn like always, maybe try putting one on line and see if it makes more $$.
    *I don’t think it will significantly raise earnings on casual play locations (which is a lot of route play money), so if it costs it will soon be taken offline.

    #716 37 days ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    Free=great! Let’s try it out.
    Subscription=Let’s let them earn like always, maybe try putting one on line and see if it makes more $$.
    *I don’t think it will significantly raise earnings on casual play locations (which is a lot of route play money), so if it costs it will soon be taken offline.

    My shot in the dark guess is subscriptions would be for things like real time access to earnings, exporting of reports to quicken, possibly the real time reporting of issues etc. Things a home user wouldn't care about.

    I do hope players are able to notify operators of any issues, possibly create tickets (xyz flipper is stuck) and hopefully that feature is not subscription based!

    #717 37 days ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    Free=great! Let’s try it out.
    Subscription=Let’s let them earn like always, maybe try putting one on line and see if it makes more $$.
    *I don’t think it will significantly raise earnings on casual play locations (which is a lot of route play money), so if it costs it will soon be taken offline.

    I feel like the retrofit kit will certainly be a huge stumbling block for operators existing machines. But I guess, the upcoming games with it pre-installed will be a chance to test the waters. As a player, I feel like a single machine at a location with Insider Connected would kind of miss out on the overall potential of the system but I guess that is unavoidable as anything non-Spike2 will lack obviously lack the functionality.

    #718 37 days ago
    Quoted from Only_Pinball:

    I meant what are you willing to pay for the kits? Put another way, what do you think is a fair price ti retro fit you games?

    TBH If the kits were $20 or free with a location monthly fee Id be more interested than $100+. To think that the service will be free or free forever is unrealistic. Locations that offer the service will be preferred over ones that do not have the service similar to the way Incredible Technologies handles Golden Tee. Stern needs to put the man hours for this to be worth the money.

    #719 37 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    TBH If the kits were $20 or free with a location monthly fee Id be more interested than $100+. To think that the service will be free or free forever is unrealistic. Locations that offer the service will be preferred over ones that do not have the service similar to the way Incredible Technologies handles Golden Tee. Stern needs to put the man hours for this to be worth the money.

    I'd estimate ~$200 for the kits. Maybe $179 ish.

    #720 37 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    I'd estimate ~$200 for the kits. Maybe $179 ish.

    Possibly, but I feel like its all speculation at this point. I cant see them not charging for this service and also locations need to be charged as a location and not per game. If they plan on bringing 17 games online plus all future games including the one they will announce next tuesday it will be a harder sell. Again, this also is dependent on what features they rollout. They need to make older games attractive to regulars for this to be worth it. Also they need to keep new achievements coming out.

    TBH this service feels like its more geared for locations than the home owner but they know that consumers will want the ability to have this as well

    #721 37 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    I feel like the retrofit kit will certainly be a huge stumbling block for operators existing machines. But I guess, the upcoming games with it pre-installed will be a chance to test the waters. As a player, I feel like a single machine at a location with Insider Connected would kind of miss out on the overall potential of the system but I guess that is unavoidable as anything non-Spike2 will lack obviously lack the functionality.

    Thats where pinquest and scorebit need to step up their game. I have scorebit on our JJP games and it feels clunky and lacks features that Insider Connected has.

    #722 37 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    I have scorebit on our JJP games and it feels clunky and lacks features ....

    so just like JJP games

    It's an attempt at humor ... relax

    #723 37 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    Possibly, but I feel like its all speculation at this point. I cant see them not charging for this service and also locations need to be charged as a location and not per game.

    good for arcades but bad for route guys who move games around / have 15-20+ games on route all over the place.

    #724 35 days ago
    Quoted from oradke:

    I wonder if the app could help newbies understand the machines? Like offering rules or even tutorials after logging in? I‘m thinking along the lines if what PinballArcade offers. If you help newbies understand the game, they‘ll have more fun playing, eventually dropping more coin as well instead of giving up out of frustration or ignorance.

    I don’t think newbies would care enough to listen. They just want to get a multi-ball and see toys do something.

    #725 31 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    If a location sets up an achievement to give away free games, tokens, cash or merchandise then it can and will. I have no problem doing this at my location.

    I can see these running foul of local gambling ordinances real quick.

    #726 31 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    I can see these running foul of local gambling ordinances real quick.

    Places already do something similar. I've seen get free pizza for a year if you can grand champion a game. You can already earn a free game on most pinball games.

    #727 31 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    I can see these running foul of local gambling ordinances real quick.

    Depending on where you live this is not different than running a ToPS event.

    #728 31 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    Depending on where you live this is not different than running a ToPS event.

    local game vs side wide vs muilt state

    #729 31 days ago

    Interesting to note, that as George Gomez mentioned in the video, on the latest Godzilla machine reveal video, the first thing the player does is scan the QR device on the machine apron with a smart phone. The player appears to be Keith Elwin, by the way. George Gomez mentioned that all new machines would include the QR reader device.

    #730 31 days ago

    I like how stern integrated the graphics with the QR reader and eliminated a player card and just added art there. I wish they would ditch the cut out for the player card on the left as well.

    D8A1FB3D-F9DC-42AC-897C-4ACACCC70584 (resized).jpeg
    #731 31 days ago

    Did anyone pick up on this statement from Gary Stern regarding the wholesale price of the Insider Connected retrofit kit?
    (source: Pinball Magazine http://www.pinball-magazine.com/?p=4269)

    PIN (resized).jpg
    #732 31 days ago
    Quoted from Gotfrogs:

    I like how stern integrated the graphics with the QR reader and eliminated a player card and just added art there. I wish they would ditch the cut out for the player card on the left as well. [quoted image]

    yes that looks nice, but it does only like like this on prem/LE?

    i think on the pro it will look like this:
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #733 31 days ago
    Quoted from pinballkyle:

    Yeah Stern didn’t develop all these operator tools out of the kindness of their hearts, it was probably a very expensive software build, when they do start charging subscriptions, it’s a huge money making opportunity for them.
    Someone is going to have to pay the fees, it’s hard enough to make money on pinballs that cost as much as they do now, I do see price increases to play at a location happening due to this.

    I think you have it wrong, it'll be the player base They will try to charge.

    See, they already have the premium Stern Insider subscription model. So the waters have already been tested. They'll have a premium tier service that customers can buy, and a free option with less features. Similar to something like Xbox live. They might charge operators for promotions and things of that nature, but that is a small piece of the puzzle. Getting Stern pinball fans to subscribe to the premium service is where the real money will be, not the operators. They NEED the operators to use their new platform. And operators won't if they're charged.

    #734 30 days ago

    Sooo, is everyone going crazy over this feature? How are you enjoying pinball better because of this?

    #735 30 days ago
    Quoted from explosiveegg:

    I think you have it wrong, it'll be the player base They will try to charge.
    See, they already have the premium Stern Insider subscription model. So the waters have already been tested. They'll have a premium tier service that customers can buy, and a free option with less features. Similar to something like Xbox live. They might charge operators for promotions and things of that nature, but that is a small piece of the puzzle. Getting Stern pinball fans to subscribe to the premium service is where the real money will be, not the operators. They NEED the operators to use their new platform. And operators won't if they're charged.

    So you’re hoping for something that hasn’t been announced as part of this feature?

    #736 30 days ago

    Why would they do that? Don’t you want to read the rules?

    Quoted from Gotfrogs:

    I like how stern integrated the graphics with the QR reader and eliminated a player card and just added art there. I wish they would ditch the cut out for the player card on the left as well. [quoted image]

    #737 30 days ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    Did anyone pick up on this statement from Gary Stern regarding the wholesale price of the Insider Connected retrofit kit?
    (source: Pinball Magazine http://www.pinball-magazine.com/?p=4269)
    [quoted image]

    $200 additional dollars of bom in to every machine going forward for something I could care less about. Sure doesn't add $200 of fun to my experience as an owner.

    #738 30 days ago

    ACA5F2B6-A8DA-4279-B60A-55DAFE8D8CD6 (resized).jpeg

    So you have to scan the QR code to register, then using the QR code you get you then show it back to the built in scanner in the game???

    Why not just have one unique QR code on the game and no scanner necessary??

    #739 30 days ago

    Codes are for individual players not the machine. You scan to join and enter your personal information and then are issued a unique code to track you and your accomplishments. Latter on you will be offered some feature or content for a fee - subscription based. Revenue stream for Stern - that's really what this is about and the end game.

    #740 30 days ago
    Quoted from NoQuarters:

    Codes are for individual players not the machine. You scan to join and enter your personal information and then are issued a unique code to track you and your accomplishments. Latter on you will be offered some feature or content for a fee - subscription based. Revenue stream for Stern - that's really what this is about and the end game.

    But my phone has all my information and the scanner inbuilt. I scan the QR using my phone, it registers me on the game. Why do I need a scanner on every game?

    I guess Stern are thinking some ancient players may not have a camera on their phone? Maybe 5 years ago.

    #741 30 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    But my phone has all my information and the scanner inbuilt. I scan the QR using my phone, it registers me on the game. Why do I need a scanner on every game?
    I guess Stern are thinking some ancient players may not have a camera on their phone? Maybe 5 years ago.

    Or didn’t think to include a unique machine identifier in that code that could distinguish you being at that particular machine.

    #742 30 days ago
    Quoted from GoodOmens:

    Or didn’t think to include a unique machine identifier in that code that could distinguish you being at that particular machine.

    That’s what I mean - why not just print the unique QR code on each game and the player scans that? Bingo. No new hardware needed except the WiFi adapter (which is needed either way).

    #743 30 days ago

    Can someone explain to me why we need that hideous scanner on the apron instead of using a QR code on the screen? I would pay $200 to have that removed from my game. Shit is going to look completely dated in 5 years.

    #744 30 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    That’s what I mean - why not just print the unique QR code on each game and the player scans that? Bingo. No new hardware needed except the WiFi adapter (which is needed either way).

    In a 2-player game the game 'needs' to know who's playing, so you'll scan the QR-code on your phone when asked I suppose? (player one first, then player 2). You could ofcourse tell that an app on your phone as well, but there may be downsides to that(?).

    #745 30 days ago
    Quoted from sven:

    In a 2-player game the game 'needs' to know who's playing, so you'll scan the QR-code on your phone when asked I suppose? (player one first, then player 2). You could ofcourse tell that an app on your phone as well, but there may be downsides to that(?).

    But either way, all players need to either scan the QR code with their phone, or use the game scanner to scan their own QR code.

    If the QR code is on the game, I scan it with my phone, my phone tells the server I’m playing game XYZ20394, then the server gives the game my details.

    If I show my QR code to the games scanner, the game takes my code, asks the server who player 3448721 is, then the server replies with my details.

    Same same, just one less piece of hardware in the first example (assuming everyone has a QR capable phone already).

    Maybe (probably) there’s a technical reason why Stern have done it this way I’m not aware of?

    #746 30 days ago
    Quoted from cabal:

    yes that looks nice, but it does only like like this on prem/LE?
    i think on the pro it will look like this:
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Correct. Thankfully I only have LE Sterns. With Pros being designed primarily for location play, I will give Stern a pass for doing what they did with the Pros. I was just worried they were going to masks the LE/premium machines not look as nice for collectors and the home use market.

    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    Why would they do that? Don’t you want to read the rules?

    You don’t have to have a cut out in the apron for a player card. They can be added with tape or a magnet. JJP has been doing this for many years and it looks much better.

    #747 30 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    [quoted image]
    So you have to scan the QR code to register, then using the QR code you get you then show it back to the built in scanner in the game???
    Why not just have one unique QR code on the game and no scanner necessary??

    I have asked the exact same question. What you described is how Scorbit has implemented things. It works perfect on WOZ and hobbit with no extra hardware required (just a WiFi usb dongle).

    https://scorbit.io/

    #748 30 days ago

    If they put a QR code on the monitor for your to scan, then it could be easily change. With a static sticker code, then anyone that took a picture of the QR code could scan it when they weren't near the game to troll whoever wanted to play it. Just think of the fun you could have at Expo scanning the QR code for different machines every few minutes while people are trying to play them or log in themselves, or do this at your local bar while people are trying to log in. There are too many trolls out there to assume people will not entertain themselves at others expense.

    So, the next solution is to make it two factor. You scan a unique code on the apron, the pinball machine must have internet access and the Stern server must be functioning properly. The server sees you try to log into the machine and posts a code on the LCD you must now type in, or post a QR code there you must scan in, which then means the phone must have internet access to talk to the Stern server too. This all becomes a bigger hassle, especially if you must do this every time you start a new game.

    Having the game scan your personal unique QR code can allow the game to save your results and submit them later if the internet connection for the machine is currently not functional. It wouldn't show your avatar/nickname on the game, but it could still remember who you are and you could get credit. The two factor only works if internet to the pinball machine is working, and what happens when the internet or server is slow today.

    The simple solution is to have your own code and show it to the machine so it knows your ID number.

    #749 30 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    But either way, all players need to either scan the QR code with their phone, or use the game scanner to scan their own QR code.
    If the QR code is on the game, I scan it with my phone, my phone tells the server I’m playing game XYZ20394, then the server gives the game my details.
    If I show my QR code to the games scanner, the game takes my code, asks the server who player 3448721 is, then the server replies with my details.
    Same same, just one less piece of hardware in the first example (assuming everyone has a QR capable phone already).
    Maybe (probably) there’s a technical reason why Stern have done it this way I’m not aware of?

    But if everything is only app based you will need to put 30% back to apple store. In game purchases will not be possible and gets very complicated.
    With the feature to integrate it into the machine they will have control on what ever app stores will do. It will be just a free app to see your stats and achievements. You can still go to pc with a browser and just print your individual code and be happy and do your purchases there. On the Boom side i guess it's way exagerated 200$. My guess it's an 12$ scanner and a hole in the apron and a 8$ wifi adapter.

    from Stern side i think it's a smart move to go this way and keep everything in their own control.
    and get as much information as possible from the games.

    to have the price increase and the customers pay for this another thing. Everybody is paying for features they may use or not.

    But in the end it is coming and we still have the choice to buy pinball machines or not.
    Personally i do not like it.

    #750 30 days ago

    Im late to this thread, so my apologies if this has been covered.
    Is the system designed to "push"?
    You register on a game, and do poorly, or fantastic....
    Can an operator send you a Free Game that you redeem with a Phone Scan?

    To me, THAT would generate additional revenue on location.

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