(Topic ID: 165454)

Stern Insert Ghosting Poll - Buyers Only


By 27dnast

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 72 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by IBARAKURO
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Does your NIB Stern have insert ghosting?”

    • Yes, I recently bought a NIB and have insert ghosting 71 votes
      50%
    • No, I recently bought a NIB and do not have insert ghosting 72 votes
      50%

    (143 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    There are 72 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    This whole Stern quality control... potential shift in PF manufacturing... has been a pretty hot topic. It's hard to tell what the ratio of games with the now infamous ghosting issue make up the pool of recent games manufactured.

    Poll is simple: have you bought a game recently? Have your inserts ghosted? Yes or No.

    If you did experience issues, list your game title below...

    #3 3 years ago

    I bought a NIB Ghostbusters LE. 500 games in and no ghosting.

    #4 3 years ago

    Do we REALLY need ANOTHER thread about Stern's QA problems with playfields? This is like the third one this week.

    #5 3 years ago

    I like this one best as it as a simple poll. I received my NIB LED MET PRO last week with a June 15th build date. Zero issues.

    #6 3 years ago

    This morning I reported no issues. That's no longer the case. My GBLE inserts are starting to ghost. Bummer.

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    #7 3 years ago

    I have some crazing on the clear inserts on my TWD Prem. build date 2/19/16 with a playfield date of 2/5/16. So far 250 plays with no ghosting issues ( Im hoping that continues ). Clear looks great and thick., very little dimpling. Hoping the scuff marks help the clear bite on the inserts.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    This morning I reported no issues. That's no longer the case. My GBLE inserts are starting to ghost. Bummer.

    That stinks :-/

    #9 3 years ago

    My Ghostbusters arrived yesterday, and I have to say I was concerned by seeing some of the pictures on here. Thankfully it looks fine, but it's clearly luck of the draw.

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from Silver:

    My Ghostbusters arrived yesterday, and I have to say I was concerned by seeing some of the pictures on here. Thankfully it looks fine, but it's clearly luck of the draw.

    Mine took about 3 weeks to manifest. Not saying that you'll have trouble, but it can take some time.

    #11 3 years ago

    so.... is Stern sending out populated playfields to people? Blank playfields? Or just sticking their head in the sand?

    #12 3 years ago

    Sorry, dumb question, but what is ghosting in this situation? I don't see what's wrong in these photos. I thought ghosting had to do with LEDs showing light when their not supposed to be?

    #13 3 years ago

    Rats - I thought I was one of the lucky ones, but checked yesterday and after about 5 weeks, my LE is starting to ghost now too. Add me to the list....

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from woody24:

    Sorry, dumb question

    you don't see the white lifting parts of the inserts in post #6? yes, LEDs can ghost, too but this is insert ghosting.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from woody24:

    Sorry, dumb question, but what is ghosting in this situation? I don't see what's wrong in these photos. I thought ghosting had to do with LEDs showing light when their not supposed to be?

    ghosting is when the insert separates from the clear coat and an air gap can be seen. as on the right side of the inserts above.

    A'm I wrong or is there a Vid fix for this? I thought I saw where you inject some clear into the void and fill it with clear and it disapears.

    #16 3 years ago

    Is Stern expecting the LE buyers at $8K to just live with this insert ghosting issue?

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from PorkChopExpress:

    Is Stern expecting the LE buyers at $8K to just live with this insert ghosting issue?

    The next rom update will note that insert ghosting on a game about ghosts is "as designed."

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    so.... is Stern sending out populated playfields to people? Blank playfields? Or just sticking their head in the sand?

    Some people have been told that their ghosting is 'within acceptable limits.'

    So... Option 3.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    you don't see the white lifting parts of the inserts in post #6?

    From a flat photo of a shiny playfield, and not knowing that ghosting was used as two terms, nor am I familiar with ghostbusters, no, I couldn't see any difference. Just figured it was a reflection or part of the artwork I guess.

    So that makes total sense now when I see people mention "ghosting inserts" with certain posts. I've just been calling it "bubbles."

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Maken:

    Some people have been told that their ghosting is 'within acceptable limits

    Sounds like Stern needs to very clearly define what is "acceptable" for them, so we can decide if it is "acceptable" for us (the customers). IMHO no amount of ghosting on a new game should be acceptable - it compromises the protective qualities of the clearcoat and will almost certainly continue to worsen until it chips off.

    #21 3 years ago

    ^^ exactly

    I can understand that sending out 500 populated playfields to replace the ghosting ones isn't going to happen.
    For the really bad ones, they should send a playfield for free. For the very minor ones they should offer a replacement playfield at their cost [once the issues have been fixed]. I think I read they are in the $300 range cost-wise for Stern.
    Ignoring the issue and saying it's within their acceptable range will only cost them future sales.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    you don't see the white lifting parts of the inserts in post #6? yes, LEDs can ghost, too but this is insert ghosting.

    Are you talking about just the "Add-a-Ball" and "Tobin's Spirit Guide" inserts?

    #23 3 years ago

    yes. the light areas to the right side of the inserts. that's called ghosting. and it can and will get worse.

    #24 3 years ago

    Thank you for the clarification.

    My LE arrived on Friday and has about 50 plays on it with no issues.....yet.

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    I can understand that sending out 500 populated playfields to replace the ghosting ones isn't going to happen.
    For the really bad ones, they should send a playfield for free. For the very minor ones they should offer a replacement playfield at their cost [once the issues have been fixed]. I think I read they are in the $300 range cost-wise for Stern.
    Ignoring the issue and saying it's within their acceptable range will only cost them future sales.

    That would be all well and good but Stern has to find out what the problem is first, it would probably be a trial and error type situation which could take months and there's no guarantee that they would even find the problem even then. If they sent out new pf's now from stock at hand how would they or us know that those wouldn't start ghosting? This could take a very long time to find out anything about what the problem is.

    #26 3 years ago

    well, agree it would only be after they've fixed the issue.
    I would just guess to say the playfields aren't being properly prepped. The inserts have to be sanded down to playfield level and they are obviously too "slick" when the initial layer of clear is sprayed. the clear has to have something to "bite" to. I'm sure HSA or another clearcoating professional could shine more light on the issue.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    That would be all well and good but Stern has to find out what the problem is first, it would probably be a trial and error type situation which could take months and there's no guarantee that they would even find the problem even then. If they sent out new pf's now from stock at hand how would they or us know that those wouldn't start ghosting? This could take a very long time to find out anything about what the problem is.

    But if they're sending a new playfield, either gratis or at cost (depending on the severity of the issue), it can continue curing for a year or years until you want or need to swap it. The extra time may help. I know that whenever I did a clearcoated pf restoration, I always let it cure for at least a year before swapping it in. They held up really well, and I attribute at least part of that to letting them cure a long time before use.

    #28 3 years ago

    Wow...

    43 poll responds... basically 50/50.

    #29 3 years ago

    Adding my unfortunate YES

    July 7th playfield
    July 14th machine20160731_170500_(resized).jpg

    #30 3 years ago

    July 7th playfield. Noticed ghosting had started few days ago on my Tobin's Spirit Guide insert. So far it hasn't gotten worse and I don't see it on any others.

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    #31 3 years ago

    Is there a reason the Tobin insert seems to be the most affected?

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from dgoett:

    well, agree it would only be after they've fixed the issue.
    I would just guess to say the playfields aren't being properly prepped. The inserts have to be sanded down to playfield level and they are obviously too "slick" when the initial layer of clear is sprayed. the clear has to have something to "bite" to. I'm sure HSA or another clearcoating professional could shine more light on the issue.

    I have just had a really good look at ours. At the moment (350 plays) we only have a small issue with one insert. I checked and the insert is starting to sink into the wood causing the clear coat to lift off. We have seven late model Sterns and only GBLE has this problem. All are located in a climate controlled house. I believe that the playfield wood on GBLE is softer than our other playfields and the large amount of air balls are bashing the inserts in to the wood causing the Clear coat to lift off.

    If the ghosting gets any worse we are going to push for a replacement playfield once the issues are sorted. We will be happy with the replacement as long as the replacement is signed like the original.

    #33 3 years ago

    Have been checking mine almost daily after reading these posts. I may have an issue but it's so small I hope it's nothing. I will continue to watch and see if it gets worse. I've enlarged and circled what appears to be the issue.

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    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    I believe that the playfield wood on GBLE is softer than our other playfields and the large amount of air balls are bashing the inserts in to the wood causing the Clear coat to lift off.

    So if airballs are pushing the inserts down causing the separation, would supergluing the insert edges to the wood on the back side to make them harder to move be a preventative? I've done that on older Bally/Williams after pounding back raised inserts and it seemed to work well. This is the reverse of that.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from marspinball:

    Have been checking mine almost daily after reading these posts. I may have an issue but it's so small I hope it's nothing. I will continue to watch and see if it gets worse. I've enlarged and circled what appears to be the issue.

    Ours is like that. Manufacture May 26th 2016. we are watching closely.

    #36 3 years ago

    July 7th playfield
    July 14th build date

    #FixMyPlayfield
    #NoMoreSternNIB

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    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    So if airballs are pushing the inserts down causing the separation, would supergluing the insert edges to the wood on the back side to make them harder to move be a preventative? I've done that on older Bally/Williams after pounding back raised inserts and it seemed to work well. This is the reverse of that.

    We have only really been into the pinnies for the last 5 years. We have not encountered this before so have no solution yet. I did pound the insert back up a little so hopefully the clear will not crack. I have thought about using superglue but I am unsure how it could react with the insert or the playfield wood. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I would rather glue in inserts than swap out a playfield.

    We have considered all our options and at absolute worst we would buy a new playfield (after the issues are sorted) store it and swap the playfield out before we sell. It is an absolutely fantastic game so should sell well in good condition. We are confident that Stern and our Distro will keep us happy. They have looked after us on every other issue and we have had plenty. The only NIB that has turned up at our place without issues has been TWDLE. When doing business, how the business owner resolves issues greatly impacts return business from that customer. Lets see what happens. My wife loves GBLE so it is definitely going to get played!

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    July 7th playfield
    July 14th build date
    #FixMyPlayfield
    #NoMoreSternNIB

    You said your distributor won't contact you back, but left out who the distributor is. Seems like important information.

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    We have only really been into the pinnies for the last 5 years. We have not encountered this before so have no solution yet. I did pound the insert back up a little so hopefully the clear will not crack. I have thought about using superglue but I am unsure how it could react with the insert or the playfield wood. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I would rather glue in inserts than swap out a playfield.

    I haven't had to do it on any modern Sterns, but on older 90's era Bally Williams with raised inserts, I would flatten the inserts level then superglue the back of the insert edges under the playfield to the playfield to prevent them from raising again anytime soon. Always seemed to work well. But since this is the opposite problem of inserts being pounded into the playfield by airballs, it might take something stronger like epoxy to give the inserts enough support not to sink. Dunno.

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    You said your distributor won't contact you back, but left out who the distributor is. Seems like important information.

    My distributor is Trent @ Tilt. He contacts me back, it's Stern that won't contact him after he's let them know of the situation.

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Mine took about 3 weeks to manifest. Not saying that you'll have trouble, but it can take some time.

    Not good. Just checked dates - my playfield was June 20th and cabinet June 27th. Here's to hoping that everything settled as it spent several weeks bouncing around on a boat across the Atlantic...

    #42 3 years ago

    Stern had received complaints about this issue prior to some of these playfield manufacture dates.

    #43 3 years ago

    SMVE purchased mid April 2016. Manufacture date March 11, 2016. Almost every single insert in ghosting. About 500 plays.

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    #44 3 years ago

    I have a Metallica Premium Monsters on order right now. I am crossing my fingers like crazy.

    #46 3 years ago

    that spiderman makes me sick. so sorry dude. stern better remedy the situation.

    #47 3 years ago

    I'm still confused on the cause of ghosting. I get the separation part. But has it been identified as the clearcoat not adheasing to the inserts. Should the top of the inserts be sanded (roughened with some grit) for the clearcoat to adhease better? Is it also a combination of the wood (Playfield) not being cured (dry) enough where the heat build-up within the cab causes the wood to expand and contract causing the inserts to move seperating itself from the clearcoat? Since the day Stern started using LED's...(complaints of how bright the LED's have been)...is there too much heat being emitted from the LED's from under the insert causing the clearcoat to dry, shrink leading to the ghosting issues?

    I can't recall these issues when they were only using incandescent bulbs...and honestly I can't remember with the LE's and Premiums I've owned before this became an issue if I paid much attention to the ghosting issues. I only recall where as buyers we were disappointed at the time how thin the clearcoat was and how frustrated many NIB owners were.

    Thought I would ask...

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from rlslick:

    I'm still confused on the cause of ghosting. I get the separation part. But has it been identified as the clearcoat not adheasing to the inserts. Should the top of the inserts be sanded (roughened with some grit) for the clearcoat to adhease better? Is it also a combination of the wood (Playfield) not being cured (dry) enough where the heat build-up within the cab causes the wood to expand and contract causing the inserts to move seperating itself from the clearcoat? Since the day Stern started using LED's...(complaints of how bright the LED's have been)...is there too much heat being emitted from the LED's from under the insert causing the clearcoat to dry, shrink leading to the ghosting issues?
    I can't recall these issues when they were only using incandescent bulbs...and honestly I can't remember with the LE's and Premiums I've owned before this became an issue if I paid much attention to the ghosting issues. I only recall where as buyers we were disappointed at the time how thin the clearcoat was and how frustrated many NIB owners were.
    Thought I would ask...

    It has nothing to do with the bulbs. LED's in general are are cooler than incandescence and should be much easier on the machine when it comes to heat.

    #49 3 years ago

    Up to 71 responses... Still 50/50.

    Who could have predicted that Stern's golden child would get blemished???

    -2
    #50 3 years ago

    best pin since TAF and they F*&cked it up.....

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