I think in order to see it you had to spend $$$ on PDI glass. Otherwise they all look the same.

; )

This test doesn't mean much unless the OP used the same shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings on the camera. Manual mode on the camera is the way to ensure the same settings are used from picture to picture, otherwise in auto mode cameras will adjust SS, A and ISO to create optimal exposure (lighting) pictures. Viewing the exif info for each of the original pictures would tell us those settings, but one can't do it with a combined picture.

Honestly the biggest difference I see with this type of glass is when the game is off. I've tried to reach in a game before because I thought there was no glass on it. Haha

Once Fuyao Glass starts offering it for $25 a sheet, I’ll buy some.

There are plenty of side by side comparison threads for regular vs invisiglass There really is no comparison. As for these I can’t tell a difference but I am on my phone

The difference seems small. If the lighting isn't bad I can't really tell that much between invisiglass and a clean sheet of regular glass.

I definitely agree that some environments need anti glare. But at my house I can barely tell. When the price become similar to regular sheet glass I will buy it

Pinball News did an analysis several years ago comparing normal tempered glass vs Invisglass vs PDI. It is pretty interesting. The bottom line is they preferred PDI.

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html

pretty sure all of this "HD" glass is simply low iron glass...very common in the aquarium trade...you can get 3/16" thick glass cut to any size you want with sanded edges...i just checked $139 shipped to my door...type "starfire glass" on google...no need to pay over $200

Don’t think that’s correct, but if it is I stand corrected.

No indication that the Starphire glass has the anti-reflective coatings or properties of the three premium products being discussed here.

Correct. Starphire glass is just the opposite, it is designed with maximum clarity in mind to ensure that colors are accurately visible and that less distortion is present. An anti-reflective coating inherently reduces color accuracy which is not an issue with bright blaring lights in a pinball machine. This is useful in the reef aquarium trade (not so much freshwater or standard salt) because of the desire to see the vibrant colors of corals and fish and because the glass is much thicker and often viewed from an angle. You wouldn't typically do Starphire on a tank with 1/4" glass, but you would for something 1/2"+ and it's very nice. It scratches more easily though and I'm not sure about its strength compared to standard glass. I'm doubtful that it is of any benefit in a pinball machine.

FWIW, If I look at my Stern Invisiglass and it's reflective coating, it's slight purplish effect from the coating that can be seen at certain angles looks extremely similar to the anti-reflective coating I get on my prescription glasses.

I have both PDI and Invisiglass. I think the impact of anti reflective glass is really environment driven. My game room is very bright during the day so the glass really helps. As regards to what product is better...who knows as its really difficult to tell between PDI and Invisiglass...their both nice products....

would probably just be cheaper to replace existing house lights with lights that don't shine directly onto your pins

I just recently got a pin with stern hd glass and have it next to invisiglass. Absolutely no difference. I've seen pdi as well. Would say it's the same. For me it's whatever it's cheaper if the three..... So stern

Got my IMDNLE and put PDI on after two days. Pinball is next to a window. PDI made the difference

I didn't know that Marco sold anti-reflective glass, although I did buy some of Stern's from Terry last year so I guess this makes sense.

Can anyone confirm that Marco is selling the Stern HD? If not, then whose are they selling?

No offense, but I would be more inclined to believe http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html who tested both Inivisiglass and PDI and found Invisiglass to be inferior, over a guy who looked at them in different environments and thinks they are the same.

I've seen the study, but the fact is there is very little if any difference in most home environments. I have both products (3 PDI, and 3 IG) sitting side by side and its almost impossible to tell the difference nor can any of the dozens of people who have played the games. The only reason I don't continue to buy the PDI product is because its 15% more expensive. If it was the same cost I would buy whoever could the product to me faster ....I have no experience with the stern product, but I'm sure its pretty nice....

No you're right. Forget my real world experience and believe a website. Very good idea. Let's all thank maken for putting an end to this debate with his link of a website article.

Thanks maken!

Exactly. I thought this was already scientifically proven years ago that PDI glass was a whole order of magnitude better than the invisiglass. (not the pinball news story, but somone who brought the glass into their optics lab and tested it there.)

From personal experience again it's PDI that is the hands down, clear cut, no doubt winner. With Invisiglass (and the Stern HD glass) it's kind of like, "hey, there's a lot less reflection, but what is this streaky purple oily reflection on even the slightest fingerprint", and with the PDI glass it's like, "hey, you forgot to install the glass in your machine."

Research > Testimonials

Where did pinball news get their eyeballs calibrated?

My Maiden has Stern HD Glass, the rest have invisglass. There’s no obvious difference to me.

I haven't seen Stern's glass next to Invisiglass.

I have seen it next to Roman's (AKA PDI).

Stern's has a much more pronounced colour cast, much worse reflection, and also appeared to permit less transmission (pf looked a little darker).

Invisiglass vs Roman's has a different colour cast (greenish vs bluish) though not stronger as per Stern's, reflection quite a bit worse, transmission maybe a tiny bit worse (marginal).

I'd be surprised if Stern's didn't immediately appear worse next to JJP's, per the OP's photo and premise of the thread.

As for people claiming they can see no difference between normal glass and Roman's / PDI (or the others). Well, some people swear blind they can't tell the difference standard glass or acrylic and anti-reflective museum quality stuff in the art world. It's indescribably obvious. They say they can't tell even when you can barely see the painting or poster due to reflection, and there's one next to it with no perceivable reflection until you get close.

Either they're blind / severely lacking in observational skills ... or they've managed to bio-augment their eyes with a polariser.

Allow me to pile on here.. recently bought 2 sets of Stern HD glass and installed them to 2 highly restored machines, MB and SS. The glass looks ok, but when swapping it out for the Invisiglass that came with me DI, there is an obvious difference in my environment. The Stern HD glass is much more similar to just a brand new regular glass. Total waste of money IMO.

The Invisiglass (in my house) is “hey I forgot to put the glass on” good. I have not used PDI although since I saw that Nitro is carrying it at a considerable discount, I may just buy that.

I tried buying a sheet from Nitro, but they were out of stock. Not sure what the delivered price is to the USA? Its listed at $225 on their website + whatever shipping might be?

That’s right - and yes I think it’s +shipping. I am not sure about why they show out of stock

Not sure, but another pinsider suggested the product. I ended up ordering another Invisiglass $328 delivered....the extra $40 for PDI isn't worth it in my mind. I see ZERO difference in my environment (very bright)...nor do the 20+ people who have played the games.

Going forward, everyone needs to indicate the date and place they had their eyeballs calibrated. Also, to which Standard were they calibrated to.
I'll start, 2005, Rockwell Science Center/Rockwell Scientific, Thousand Oaks, CA
Rockwell Imaging Standard DBBB-2135.

Has anyone seen or heard anything about Voodoo Glass from Cointaker? Seems like a less expensive alternative has been introduced.

https://cointaker.com/t/voodoo-glass

ill stick with the $25-$40 glass.

I was wondering the same. I saw it at Allentown and was tempted to buy some.

What low-reflective glass options exist for wide body games like TZ and STTNG and who sells them?

Invisiglass and PDI as Stern HD and Voodoo Glass as standard only.

I know this thread is a bit old, but where can I buy Invisiglass?

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Accessories/

Thanks. Sorry, I didnt realize it was a JJP product..

Ran into this thread while doing some research. Does anyone know what retailer offers the best deal if you are buying more than one sheet of anti-glare glass? I know that there is debate on what's best, but all of it is better than the standard glass I currently have on my JP Premium and MBrLE. I'm trying to buy two sheets at the best price shipped.

Cointaker...

Last year, at the Texas Pinball Festival, there was a guy selling glass for normal size games for $25 a sheet, cash and carry. Shipping cost on glass is expensive, so if you buy it and walk away with it, you can save a lot of money. The glass seemed fine to me, with no scratches, cracks or imperfections that I could detect and the edges were smooth. As far as I know, there was nothing special about the glass, but I didn't ask about any special features. I just wanted a new piece of glass.

Exactly. For $25, there isn't anything special about the glass. But for the $300 you pay for PDI, to me it's worth every penny. And once you see it, it's tough to go back to the regular stuff. (Just be careful not to break a finger reaching into the glass-covered playfield...my friend almost did that last week.)

I'm convinced that when I turn the lights out in the basement each night, that PDI glass starts boinkin' each other because they reproduce like rabbits. I keep telling my wife I have no idea on earth where it's all coming from.

This is very true. They also seem to drain your bank account after they leave their kids behind !

Ok, so I ordered what I thought was a 2 pack of Voodoo Glass to try it out and I got 2 sheets of Invisiglass. I went on Cointaker and see now they now have a brand new Voodoo Glass and it's $299 a sheet.

Anyway, 2 sheets of Invisiglass for $399 seems like a great deal to me. I guess I have to wait until someone tries the new Voodoo Glass by Back Alley Creations.

So wait, their new glass is Invisiglass? Im confused.

Huh? Where did you get two sheets in Invisiglass for $400 delivered ? Directly from JJP?

Cointaker sells both for $400 for 2 sheets:

https://cointaker.com/products/voodoo-glass-buy-2-for-39900
https://cointaker.com/products/invisiglass-2-pack

Wow thats a great deal....its almost $600 on the JJP site...

Yeah, that's what I thought. Melissa just killed everyone on price for high quality glass. The only question I have is how good is the new Voodoo glass. Obviously "European formula" means a take on PDI but 300 a sheet is tough compared to the Invisiglass value.