Quoted from Hayfarmer:Not me, I'm too busy playing
You win
(Topic ID: 300354)
Linked Games
Godzilla (Limited Edition)
Stern, 2021-
Godzilla (Premium)
Stern, 2021
-
Godzilla (Pro)
Stern, 2021
Topic Gallery
Yonkers, NY
Quoted from PanzerKraken:What are good mods to get for a Pro?
A premium. 
Quoted from PanzerKraken:What are good mods to get for a Pro?
The Godzilla figure from Pinball Life. Tesla Towers are Awesome. The Oxygen Destroyer Mod is Way Cool. A building mod to make the building look better and light up. A Mechagodzilla figure to replace that plastic piece.
I tend to stay away from the color plastic sets. They look good when the machine is in a room that is well lit but they change the lighting too much (IMO) when the game is played with the lights off.
Got my GZ Premium today from Classic Game Rooms and it has a build date of July 26th. Updating to 0.98 right now, says it's going to take two hours.
Anyways, seems to be fine but I have noticed a couple things.
1. Some of the plastic on the padding like melted onto the glass and one of the side rails. I got it off the glass but couldn't get it all off of the rail. I used some simple green but I will scrub it a bit more tomorrow. I don't want to scrub so hard it damages the rail.
2. The glass is noticeably harder to get off than my JP. I got it off but it's just tighter. When I went to slide it back in, it didn't fit into the groove at the top against the back of the pin. I had to manually like stretch it out and run my finger through the gap it slides into and that fixed it.
3. The back glass seems like it's loose. When I shake the machine like to nudge, it's noticeably shaky in there. Just to the touch, you can feel it has a little give if you just push it. It's not in there "tight" like my JP. I haven't opened the back glass yet to see if it's something obvious or not.
Doubt I'll play it tonight though. I'm tired and it's updating lol.
I've attached pics of the sticky residue on the sides. You can see it in the full pic on the right side. And that's after I got some of it off with the simple green.
IMG_8250 (resized).JPGIMG_8251 (resized).JPGIMG_8252 (resized).JPG
Quoted from purbeast:I don't want to scrub so hard it damages the rail.
Try goo gone. Won’t hurt anything.
Quoted from honkbahh:For those looking (including me!), godzilla premium is available now on amazon.
Crazy I saw them in stock at 10:50 and gone by 11:05. Some people got lucky
Quoted from KneeKickLou:Crazy I saw them in stock at 10:50 and gone by 11:05. Some people got lucky
Thats because there likely wont be anymore made this year so the aftermarket prices will probably stay high.
Quoted from purbeast:Got my GZ Premium today from Classic Game Rooms and it has a build date of July 26th. Updating to 0.98 right now, says it's going to take two hours.
Anyways, seems to be fine but I have noticed a couple things.
1. Some of the plastic on the padding like melted onto the glass and one of the side rails. I got it off the glass but couldn't get it all off of the rail. I used some simple green but I will scrub it a bit more tomorrow. I don't want to scrub so hard it damages the rail.
2. The glass is noticeably harder to get off than my JP. I got it off but it's just tighter. When I went to slide it back in, it didn't fit into the groove at the top against the back of the pin. I had to manually like stretch it out and run my finger through the gap it slides into and that fixed it.
3. The back glass seems like it's loose. When I shake the machine like to nudge, it's noticeably shaky in there. Just to the touch, you can feel it has a little give if you just push it. It's not in there "tight" like my JP. I haven't opened the back glass yet to see if it's something obvious or not.
Doubt I'll play it tonight though. I'm tired and it's updating lol.
I've attached pics of the sticky residue on the sides. You can see it in the full pic on the right side. And that's after I got some of it off with the simple green.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I'll throw another observation out there. The speaker foam looks weird in your picture. It looks lighter. I would have thought that you swapped the factory foam out for something of your own in there. You also don't normally see the speaker holes through the foam as much as is visible in your picture.
Of course...that could just be the picture or the lighting.......or me putting way more thought into speaker foam than most people do.
Quoted from Jamesays:I have colored protectors on all of my other machines and they look great,purple on mettalica was awesome.
I like em too.. decided to try green first with the green flips. I like it do far. I've always loved the glow it gives off. My TMNT pro was killer, my ACDC looks sweet too (full Clips sets on both).
20220804_203217 (resized).jpgQuoted from purbeast:Got my GZ Premium today from Classic Game Rooms and it has a build date of July 26th. Updating to 0.98 right now, says it's going to take two hours.
Anyways, seems to be fine but I have noticed a couple things.
1. Some of the plastic on the padding like melted onto the glass and one of the side rails. I got it off the glass but couldn't get it all off of the rail. I used some simple green but I will scrub it a bit more tomorrow. I don't want to scrub so hard it damages the rail.
2. The glass is noticeably harder to get off than my JP. I got it off but it's just tighter. When I went to slide it back in, it didn't fit into the groove at the top against the back of the pin. I had to manually like stretch it out and run my finger through the gap it slides into and that fixed it.
3. The back glass seems like it's loose. When I shake the machine like to nudge, it's noticeably shaky in there. Just to the touch, you can feel it has a little give if you just push it. It's not in there "tight" like my JP. I haven't opened the back glass yet to see if it's something obvious or not.
Doubt I'll play it tonight though. I'm tired and it's updating lol.
I've attached pics of the sticky residue on the sides. You can see it in the full pic on the right side. And that's after I got some of it off with the simple green.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
GZ DNA!
Quoted from DugFreez:I'll throw another observation out there. The speaker foam looks weird in your picture. It looks lighter. I would have thought that you swapped the factory foam out for something of your own in there. You also don't normally see the speaker holes through the foam as much as is visible in your picture.
Of course...that could just be the picture or the lighting.......or me putting way more thought into speaker foam than most people do.
Doug, Maybe it is thinner, rather than lighter, or is that the same with foam?
Quoted from DugFreez:I'll throw another observation out there. The speaker foam looks weird in your picture. It looks lighter. I would have thought that you swapped the factory foam out for something of your own in there. You also don't normally see the speaker holes through the foam as much as is visible in your picture.
Of course...that could just be the picture or the lighting.......or me putting way more thought into speaker foam than most people do.
You know what, you're right. I didn't even notice that until you pointed that out.
It definitely does have something to do with the lighting, however I still never ever saw that on my JP regardless of the lighting.
When I go into the backbox today, I may take one side off and replace it with my JP foam that I'm no longer using and see if it makes any difference.
On a well set-up Godzilla Pro, where should the ball land after a satisfying rip off the center spinner?
On my pro (my first pin), I am often rewarded with a lightning-fast drain SDTM after a perfect shot to the center spinner. Other times, the ball will deflect off of the upper flipper, changing the trajectory of the ball which may also result in a drain SDTM.
What adjustments can I make to prevent this?
Quoted from Hallucinate:On a well set-up Godzilla Pro, where should the ball land after a satisfying rip off the center spinner?
On my pro (my first pin), I am often rewarded with a lightning-fast drain SDTM after a perfect shot to the center spinner. Other times, the ball will deflect off of the upper flipper, changing the trajectory of the ball which may also result in a drain SDTM.
What adjustments can I make to prevent this?
Make sure you're level left-to-right. On my Pro, the spinner will go around (of course) and usually feed the left flipper fairly fast. Mine will occasionally bounce off the upper flipper too, but it should usually end up on the lower left flipper too, just slightly closer to the center drain.
Maybe see if holding up the left flipper is a more reliable feed?
Quoted from wywin:Make sure you're level left-to-right. On my Pro, the spinner will go around (of course) and usually feed the left flipper fairly fast. Mine will occasionally bounce off the upper flipper too, but it should usually end up on the lower left flipper too, just slightly closer to the center drain.
Maybe see if holding up the left flipper is a more reliable feed?
I have leveled the game using the PinGuy app on the playfield. I feel like it's level.
Quoted from Hallucinate:I have leveled the game using the PinGuy app on the playfield. I feel like it's level.
That app is hit or miss in terms of accuracy. Try leveling by the flippers and the building entrance using a bubble level or even better, a digital level. It’s worth the added effort!
Quoted from PinballBJB:Trying to adjust the building stepper motor upper limit, but when I put the building test into “adjust” mode instead of “move” mode, my flipper buttons don’t do anything (contrary to expectation from the key post on this issue).
The reason to adjust it is my building seems to stop rising before it hits the upper switch (I think). The building stops going up, but (as far as I can diagnose it), because the upper switch doesn’t get triggered, the motor keeps going indefinitely. So basically whenever I have playfield power on, my building motor is grinding away to try to lift the building higher but without moving the building. No good!
This issue just started. I fortunately had no problems for approximately two months / many hundred games. Then this all of a sudden.
Weirdly, even though the building isn’t hitting the upper switch, the building’s “floor” (the metal surface that’s supposed to be flush with the playfield for the ball to roll over, between the rubber pads, to get to the u-turn for the right side of the magnet) is going higher than the playfield.
When I have the playfield open/up fully for under-playfield service, I can trigger the building’s upper switch with my finger, which gets the building motor to lower the building and the motor to stop. So I suspect that the switch isn’t bad. Plus I can see that the building hasn’t gone high enough to contact the switch, and I can get my finger in there to close the switch.
I hope I explained all of this in a way that someone who can help can understand? But maybe the main question is why my flipper buttons don’t adjust the building in adjust mode. The coin door service buttons don’t do it either.
Should I be trying the #98 bias adjustment instead? If so, which direction should I adjust the bias?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Reposting this in hope of someone having any advice? I’ve continued tinkering without success. Code update didn’t help either.
Basically, my flipper buttons and coin door buttons don’t function to adjust the building during stepper motor diagnostic test. And the building somehow became uncalibrated to where it stops raising before it hits the top switch, but the motor keeps grinding away trying to make it go higher (because it isn’t triggering the switch to stop the motor). I can’t see anything obstructing its path, or any loose screws or other obvious causes.
Is there a bias setting the might help? I adjusted bias to 170 as an experiment, but saw no effect. Higher? Lower?
Any help would be appreciated.
Quoted from awesome1:Godzilla Pinball Quick Defeat of Ebirah Kaiju Battle!
Looks like you've got your alu flippers a touch lower than normal unless thats just the angle deceiving me. Is it helping with your scoop shot? I plan to order some on the next batch and try. I also notice it kind of rattles into the scoop for you when you start battle. mine never does that! the ball is alergic to the scoop and rejects on anything but a perfect shot
Guys I'm so frustrated with the scoop shot! It's not way harder than all the other shots, maser, left flipper, left ramp, all a bit tough for me, but none are as important as the scoop! To get to planet X I need to hit the scoop at least 12 times or so, assuming no seperate ally/power up collects, only 1 tank multiball and no retries on battles, just beelining it. I've got over 800 games in. I've cracked a billion a couple of times. But I've only gotten past the second city twice because of the damn scoop. I just did a game where I basically only tried to practice scoop shots (did some modes i accidentally started). Didn't shoot the left ramp once. Accidentally started two MGZ MB. Got 500M on accident in 3 balls, only got it in the scoop a few times.
So, other than "get better", anything I can do to make the scoop easier? different rubers on the adjacent posts? address the bump of the scoop protector (it's sitting flat, but still a bump). I saw someone replace a cracked protector and get better results. Mine is not cracked.
Quoted from Sorokyl:Looks like you've got your alu flippers a touch lower than normal unless thats just the angle deceiving me. Is it helping with your scoop shot? I plan to order some on the next batch and try. I also notice it kind of rattles into the scoop for you when you start battle. mine never does that! the ball is alergic to the scoop and rejects on anything but a perfect shot
Guys I'm so frustrated with the scoop shot! It's not way harder than all the other shots, maser, left flipper, left ramp, all a bit tough for me, but none are as important as the scoop! To get to planet X I need to hit the scoop at least 12 times or so, assuming no seperate ally/power up collects, only 1 tank multiball and no retries on battles, just beelining it. I've got over 800 games in. I've cracked a billion a couple of times. But I've only gotten past the second city twice because of the damn scoop. I just did a game where I basically only tried to practice scoop shots (did some modes i accidentally started). Didn't shoot the left ramp once. Accidentally started two MGZ MB. Got 500M on accident in 3 balls, only got it in the scoop a few times.
So, other than "get better", anything I can do to make the scoop easier? different rubers on the adjacent posts? address the bump of the scoop protector (it's sitting flat, but still a bump). I saw someone replace a cracked protector and get better results. Mine is not cracked.
Do you feel the shot angle is tough or that even when it "looks" good theres not enough open clearance to continue the drop? I've purposely aim for lower than usual because I get decent results having the ball skit off the pop bumper. Maser is like 1-in-10 success and the scoop is 1-in-3 for me. I would check that the protector is snug and not dropping a bit, not necessarily the bump. Who knows, maybe the gap might not be big enough. Not sure how you would have a bump and still be flat.
Quoted from Sorokyl:Looks like you've got your alu flippers a touch lower than normal unless thats just the angle deceiving me. Is it helping with your scoop shot? I plan to order some on the next batch and try. I also notice it kind of rattles into the scoop for you when you start battle. mine never does that! the ball is alergic to the scoop and rejects on anything but a perfect shot
Guys I'm so frustrated with the scoop shot! It's not way harder than all the other shots, maser, left flipper, left ramp, all a bit tough for me, but none are as important as the scoop! To get to planet X I need to hit the scoop at least 12 times or so, assuming no seperate ally/power up collects, only 1 tank multiball and no retries on battles, just beelining it. I've got over 800 games in. I've cracked a billion a couple of times. But I've only gotten past the second city twice because of the damn scoop. I just did a game where I basically only tried to practice scoop shots (did some modes i accidentally started). Didn't shoot the left ramp once. Accidentally started two MGZ MB. Got 500M on accident in 3 balls, only got it in the scoop a few times.
So, other than "get better", anything I can do to make the scoop easier? different rubers on the adjacent posts? address the bump of the scoop protector (it's sitting flat, but still a bump). I saw someone replace a cracked protector and get better results. Mine is not cracked.
Have you tried a rolling backhand flip?
Check out Don’t Panic Flip on YouTube or twitch specifically his GOTG videos since it’s close to the same scoop position.
Basically cradle on the right flipper, do a micro flip to get it rolling up the inlane and as it slowly rolls to the tip of the flipper you can backhand into the scoop very gently.
It’ll definitely take some practice but might get less rejects as it’s a slower shot.
Quoted from Sorokyl:Looks like you've got your alu flippers a touch lower than normal unless thats just the angle deceiving me. Is it helping with your scoop shot? I plan to order some on the next batch and try. I also notice it kind of rattles into the scoop for you when you start battle. mine never does that! the ball is alergic to the scoop and rejects on anything but a perfect shot
Guys I'm so frustrated with the scoop shot! It's not way harder than all the other shots, maser, left flipper, left ramp, all a bit tough for me, but none are as important as the scoop! To get to planet X I need to hit the scoop at least 12 times or so, assuming no seperate ally/power up collects, only 1 tank multiball and no retries on battles, just beelining it. I've got over 800 games in. I've cracked a billion a couple of times. But I've only gotten past the second city twice because of the damn scoop. I just did a game where I basically only tried to practice scoop shots (did some modes i accidentally started). Didn't shoot the left ramp once. Accidentally started two MGZ MB. Got 500M on accident in 3 balls, only got it in the scoop a few times.
So, other than "get better", anything I can do to make the scoop easier? different rubers on the adjacent posts? address the bump of the scoop protector (it's sitting flat, but still a bump). I saw someone replace a cracked protector and get better results. Mine is not cracked.
I have the aluminum flippers as close to the stock location as possible currently.
The scoop can be difficult - I get bounce outs as well. I can also backhand it from the right flipper if timing is just right from a cradle. Seems to stay in more with that shot.
Make sure the scoop factory "Cliffy" isn't broken. When the one on my Deadpool split, it was nearly impossible to get the ball to stay in and once I replaced with an actual Cliffy, I was good to go!
Need a perspective from the Pro owners . I have a BKSOR pro that’s going and will be replaced by a Godzilla pro . As far as gameplay the pro looks great . But compared to BK is it lacking mechs ? BK has the Flail and the moving shield . Just wondering about this as I can’t afford the premium.
Quoted from HC2016:Need a perspective from the Pro owners . I have a BKSOR pro that’s going and will be replaced by a Godzilla pro . As far as gameplay the pro looks great . But compared to BK is it lacking mechs ? BK has the Flail and the moving shield . Just wondering about this as I can’t afford the premium.
Add mods like everyone else, including me........
Quoted from Bohdi:Add mods like everyone else, including me........
Of course , shaker and replacing plastic Godzilla and Mecha look great …. But still no moving mechanisms .
Quoted from HC2016:Need a perspective from the Pro owners . I have a BKSOR pro that’s going and will be replaced by a Godzilla pro . As far as gameplay the pro looks great . But compared to BK is it lacking mechs ? BK has the Flail and the moving shield . Just wondering about this as I can’t afford the premium.
No need to worry. It’s a much more enjoyable shooter than BKSOR
Thanks for the replies guys.
Quoted from KneeKickLou:Have you tried a rolling backhand flip?
Check out Don’t Panic Flip on YouTube or twitch specifically his GOTG videos since it’s close to the same scoop position.
Basically cradle on the right flipper, do a micro flip to get it rolling up the inlane and as it slowly rolls to the tip of the flipper you can backhand into the scoop very gently.
It’ll definitely take some practice but might get less rejects as it’s a slower shot.
Yeah when i try to micro flip its more of a post pass to the other flipper (though not a controlled one, which would be nice). I can't get it to just roll up the right flipper a bit. When the ball does have just enough momentum to roll up the flipper, i do try to backhand it, with limited success
Quoted from Sleal16:Do you feel the shot angle is tough or that even when it "looks" good theres not enough open clearance to continue the drop? I've purposely aim for lower than usual because I get decent results having the ball skit off the pop bumper. Maser is like 1-in-10 success and the scoop is 1-in-3 for me. I would check that the protector is snug and not dropping a bit, not necessarily the bump. Who knows, maybe the gap might not be big enough. Not sure how you would have a bump and still be flat.
Ok I took the glass off and rolled it in there a few dozen times. fast, slow. The scoop feels very fair and easy like that, so I guess I'm just really bad. I do agree that clipping the saucer is a good way to go, especially if it registers a hit.
Hopefully I can tweak the flipper angle and have a little better luck (yes I know that is a bit of a cop out and against the design intent... i just wanna play my machine without getting so frustrated)
Quoted from HC2016:Of course , shaker and replacing plastic Godzilla and Mecha look great …. But still no moving mechanisms .
Understandable with no moving mechs, but also can add more problems and repair. I have TDiddy's building mod and bridge mod, Doug's flamin frames and a nice Godzilla figure waiting in the wings for my Pro to show up (Hopefully within the week) and have roughly $550 into those, plus cost of pin, so about $7200 total. Plus i'm going to get the Tesla strike towers and mirror blades. Now about $7450ish. Still much cheaper than a Premium, and some nice mods. Still would love a Premium, but the extra $$$ just wasn't worth it, to me. Plus didn't have that much to spend..
Quoted from HC2016:Need a perspective from the Pro owners . I have a BKSOR pro that’s going and will be replaced by a Godzilla pro . As far as gameplay the pro looks great . But compared to BK is it lacking mechs ? BK has the Flail and the moving shield . Just wondering about this as I can’t afford the premium.
if mechs are important to you, definitely get the Prem vs Pro.
Pro:
1 magnet
Premium:
2 magnets
3 moving mechs that affect gameplay and are fun to watch/interact with.
Quoted from Sorokyl:if mechs are important to you, definitely get the Prem vs Pro.
Pro:
1 magnet
Premium:
2 magnets
3 moving mechs that affect gameplay and are fun to watch/interact with.
I would love the premium but the budget prevents this
Quoted from HC2016:I would love the premium but the budget prevents this
You will enjoy it just as much.
Quoted from Sorokyl:Thanks for the replies guys.
Yeah when i try to micro flip its more of a post pass to the other flipper (though not a controlled one, which would be nice). I can't get it to just roll up the right flipper a bit. When the ball does have just enough momentum to roll up the flipper, i do try to backhand it, with limited success
Ok I took the glass off and rolled it in there a few dozen times. fast, slow. The scoop feels very fair and easy like that, so I guess I'm just really bad. I do agree that clipping the saucer is a good way to go, especially if it registers a hit.
Hopefully I can tweak the flipper angle and have a little better luck (yes I know that is a bit of a cop out and against the design intent... i just wanna play my machine without getting so frustrated)
I don't recall if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but someone was getting more scoop rejects than they thought should happen and attached some sort of foam padding to the back wall of the scoop. They said it cut down # of rejects. Just a thought.
Same issue with my glass, I thought it was stuck. I also had the residue issue.
Quoted from purbeast:Got my GZ Premium today from Classic Game Rooms and it has a build date of July 26th. Updating to 0.98 right now, says it's going to take two hours.
Anyways, seems to be fine but I have noticed a couple things.
1. Some of the plastic on the padding like melted onto the glass and one of the side rails. I got it off the glass but couldn't get it all off of the rail. I used some simple green but I will scrub it a bit more tomorrow. I don't want to scrub so hard it damages the rail.
2. The glass is noticeably harder to get off than my JP. I got it off but it's just tighter. When I went to slide it back in, it didn't fit into the groove at the top against the back of the pin. I had to manually like stretch it out and run my finger through the gap it slides into and that fixed it.
3. The back glass seems like it's loose. When I shake the machine like to nudge, it's noticeably shaky in there. Just to the touch, you can feel it has a little give if you just push it. It's not in there "tight" like my JP. I haven't opened the back glass yet to see if it's something obvious or not.
Doubt I'll play it tonight though. I'm tired and it's updating lol.
I've attached pics of the sticky residue on the sides. You can see it in the full pic on the right side. And that's after I got some of it off with the simple green.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Joined the Premium Club today. Our first premium. What a game! Wow…! July 25th birthdate. We are a 1-pin family and it seems like it will fit in well. Sad to see Stranger Things Pro go, but this is a great game. Thanks to all for your tips and tricks. I will be digesting them all more closely now.
F7CF9252-2D8B-4CE0-B460-1D1966A6B34C (resized).jpegQuoted from maxharvard:Just got the call from my shipper... Coming Tuesday
Pro or Premium? I should be getting a call any day as well.
(I posted this in the wrong thread, so positing here now)
Has anyone placed mylar by the magnet? It seems the force of the magnet could create accelerated wear in that area over time.
For that matter, anyone seen wear in that area that's had their game on location for some time?
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:(I posted this in the wrong thread, so positing here now)
Has anyone placed mylar by the magnet? It seems the force of the magnet could create accelerated wear in that area over time.
For that matter, anyone seen wear in that area that's had their game on location for some time?
I want to say I remember someone asking this before and another person saying they might look into make a template of the area to either produce some mylar or so people could cut their own. But that's all I can recall
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:(I posted this in the wrong thread, so positing here now)
Has anyone placed mylar by the magnet? It seems the force of the magnet could create accelerated wear in that area over time.
For that matter, anyone seen wear in that area that's had their game on location for some time?
Never seen wear there on the handful on location around me.
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:(I posted this in the wrong thread, so positing here now)
Has anyone placed mylar by the magnet? It seems the force of the magnet could create accelerated wear in that area over time.
For that matter, anyone seen wear in that area that's had their game on location for some time?
I have mylar in front of my grab magnet since day 1, no issues with the mylar or playfield it's been perfect since.
Quoted from KneeKickLou:I want to say I remember someone asking this before and another person saying they might look into make a template of the area to either produce some mylar or so people could cut their own. But that's all I can recall
It was Zitt who said he could make them if he had access to a machine I think. A few weeks ago. I'd buy one.
Took delivery of GZ Premium yesterday. LOVE the shots & gameplay, but it's kicking my arse...haven't been able to get past 300M. Elwin, Deangelo, & Davidson make it look so easy on YouTube...oh well, guess I need to play better!
Quoted from snaroff:Took delivery of GZ Premium yesterday. LOVE the shots & gameplay, but it's kicking my arse...haven't been able to get past 300M. Elwin, Deangelo, & Davidson make it look so easy on YouTube...oh well, guess I need to play better!
It's very different to play. Give it some time to learn the shots. I needed some hours to feel comfortable with this. I have all other games flipper setting straight down with inlanes. I changed that one to adjust the flippers a little droopy like designed. Even more to learn because it's different, but once you get used to it, it plays more "natural" I think. The scoop and left spinner are easier that way, middle spinner and building harder. Just be patient, your score will increase soon. Even more fun, because you can count how much better you get. My first typical scores were around 150M some hours. Then, learning the shots and the basic rules could get soon over 1 billion. But, I'm still at the beginning...
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