(Topic ID: 267096)

Stern game resetting and adding players

By spandol

4 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Nokoro
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    #1 4 years ago

    I have a Stern Lightning that's having some issues and after researching with what I know, I need some help finding the issue. In playing a game, at various times, it will add credits as well as start a second player game in the middle of the 1st player game. I attached the matrix below, but couldn't find an issue or where to look. It seems to be linked to the right flipper. I just had a game where the ball was in the shooter lane and I kept energizing the right flipper, to which the game added a third player and more credits. This was after adding the 2nd player and credits.

    I checked out the coin door but none of the switches appear to be stuck. Also, the top right slingshot keeps firing as the game is played, but the leaf switches are properly gapped. Maybe this is a clue to the main issue?

    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks!
    tech (resized).jpgtech (resized).jpg

    #2 3 years ago

    Bump

    #3 3 years ago

    Two thoughts come to mind. One is switches that are gapped too closely. However, you said that you checked them. Did you check the start button as well?

    The other thought is a shorted diode. Go into YouTube and search for TerryB pinball shorted diode switch matrix. He has an excellent video explaining how to diagnose. Basically, you want to look for instances where two switches are closed, and pressing a third switch triggers a fourth switch. If all four switches form a rectangle on the matrix then it is a shorted diode or a short bypassing the diode.

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Two thoughts come to mind. One is switches that are gapped too closely. However, you said that you checked them. Did you check the start button as well?
    The other thought is a shorted diode. Go into YouTube and search for TerryB pinball shorted diode switch matrix. He has an excellent video explaining how to diagnose. Basically, you want to look for instances where two switches are closed, and pressing a third switch triggers a fourth switch. If all four switches form a rectangle on the matrix then it is a shorted diode or a short bypassing the diode.

    Interesting, and just the kind of stuff with switch matrix logic I'm looking for. Thanks for the suggestion. I will look for those videos and see if I can find a problem. Will post back here.

    Thanks!

    #5 3 years ago

    Let me know if you can’t easily find the video, and I can find and post.

    #6 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Let me know if you can’t easily find the video, and I can find and post.

    I did find it, thanks. It makes sense. Now the challenge. In self test, there are no closed switches. Also, how do the flippers come into play with the matrix? I found when nothing was happening and I flipped the right flipper, this caused the game to add credits and a new player. And also the upper right sling is firing when the switches are properly gapped during gameplay. Looking at the matrix, I wasn’t sure how I would start except for checking diodes.

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from spandol:

    Now the challenge. In self test, there are no closed switches.

    Switch matrix issues are always so tricky to nail down. In self test, there may not be closed switches because all are open, unlike when you are playing the game. Try to figure out when it happens while you are playing. Are drop targets down, other switches closed, etc.? I often find on the older games, it is easier to diagnose by playing with the glass off and trying different configuration of switches to see what happens.

    Quoted from spandol:

    Also, how do the flippers come into play with the matrix? I found when nothing was happening and I flipped the right flipper, this caused the game to add credits and a new player. And also the upper right sling is firing when the switches are properly gapped during gameplay. Looking at the matrix, I wasn’t sure how I would start except for checking diodes.

    It could be that the EOS switch for the flipper is in the matrix even though it isn't shown. I don't know, i'm not familiar with the particular game.

    It could also be that the vibration from the flipper is triggering another switch that is gapped too closely, and that completes the rectangle indicating a shorted diode. Try banging around the playfield with your fist and see if any switches fire when they shouldn't.

    Also, it could be nothing is wrong with a diode, and you have a short to ground somewhere. You could inspect all switches, including on the flippers and make sure no wires or lugs are pressed up against lamp sockets or other metal fixtures. I find shorts to ground to be the most difficult. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

    Lastly (for now), it could be a board problem. The way to check for that is in switch test mode, you disconnect the connectors in the back box that correspond to the switch matrix and jump the pins to try to trigger the switches one at a time. If all trigger correctly, then it is not the board, and it is something on the playfield. Again, I don't know enough about this particular pin to advise you on which connectors, and I don't want to mislead you. From the diagram, it looks like a combination of J2 and J3, but I don't know for sure, and I'm not sure why there are two in each column and row. Perhaps ask someone else who owns the game to confirm.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    Switch matrix issues are always so tricky to nail down. In self test, there may not be closed switches because all are open, unlike when you are playing the game. Try to figure out when it happens while you are playing. Are drop targets down, other switches closed, etc.? I often find on the older games, it is easier to diagnose by playing with the glass off and trying different configuration of switches to see what happens.

    It could be that the EOS switch for the flipper is in the matrix even though it isn't shown. I don't know, i'm not familiar with the particular game.
    It could also be that the vibration from the flipper is triggering another switch that is gapped too closely, and that completes the rectangle indicating a shorted diode. Try banging around the playfield with your fist and see if any switches fire when they shouldn't.
    Also, it could be nothing is wrong with a diode, and you have a short to ground somewhere. You could inspect all switches, including on the flippers and make sure no wires or lugs are pressed up against lamp sockets or other metal fixtures. I find shorts to ground to be the most difficult. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
    Lastly (for now), it could be a board problem. The way to check for that is in switch test mode, you disconnect the connectors in the back box that correspond to the switch matrix and jump the pins to try to trigger the switches one at a time. If all trigger correctly, then it is not the board, and it is something on the playfield. Again, I don't know enough about this particular pin to advise you on which connectors, and I don't want to mislead you. From the diagram, it looks like a combination of J2 and J3, but I don't know for sure, and I'm not sure why there are two in each column and row. Perhaps ask someone else who owns the game to confirm.

    Thank you for your help. It gives me a little more info to work with. Let’s see if I can find anything.

    #9 3 years ago

    On the topic of how the flipper might be causing issues here, make very sure that any diodes soldered on the coil (or on the board the flipper coil is triggered from if they’re not on the coil itself) are good and connected well at both ends. When the coil is released it generates a high voltage spike in reverse that can cause all sorts of havoc without the diode, whose job is to short that spike back through the coil rather than the rest of the circuitry.

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from GeminiGuy:

    On the topic of how the flipper might be causing issues here, make very sure that any diodes soldered on the coil (or on the board the flipper coil is triggered from if they’re not on the coil itself) are good and connected well at both ends. When the coil is released it generates a high voltage spike in reverse that can cause all sorts of havoc without the diode, whose job is to short that spike back through the coil rather than the rest of the circuitry.

    Thanks for the info. I’ll be able to work on it tomorrow, and I will check this out first.

    For some reason, I was going through diodes on the switch matrix but can’t get a reading off the credit button switch or slam tilt switch diode on the coin door. Is this suppose to be way or do I need to unsolder a leg to test?

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from spandol:

    Thanks for the info. I’ll be able to work on it tomorrow, and I will check this out first.
    For some reason, I was going through diodes on the switch matrix but can’t get a reading off the credit button switch or slam tilt switch diode on the coin door. Is this suppose to be way or do I need to unsolder a leg to test?

    Typically, you need to desolder it to test. However, technically I think if the switch is open it counts as the same thing. One side should measure infinite resistance and the other side should allow current through.

    #12 3 years ago

    The second flipper switch seemed a little close so I gapped it slightly and it fixed the issue. It must have somehow created a rectangle in the switch matrix? Not sure but we’re good.

    The next issue is the speech board isn’t working but I thought it was fixed.

    Thanks for the help on the reset issue!

    #13 3 years ago

    Nice! Congrats.

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