(Topic ID: 190361)

Stern Galaxy - Not booting, first SS

By MaxAsh

6 years ago


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  • 103 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by MaxAsh
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  • Galaxy Stern Electronics, 1980

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#1 6 years ago

Hello all - I've finally decided to break out of my EM repair safety zone and try my hand at fixing a SS. I picked up a dead Stern Galaxy that I think will clean up pretty well. I've been reading a lot of previous threads on other Galaxy pins, as well as watching some youtube videos I found on repairing the pin. Hoping you guys can help direct and teach me as I learn about the SS world. Please feel free to ask me for pics or more info as I go, happy to oblige.

What I know so far:

- I don't see much wire hackery or anything strange, in fact most stuff looks completely original
- Battery was still in place, some leakage corrosion, but not anywhere near as bad as others I've seen pics of before. I removed it and started the clean-up process. Corrosion seems to be in one general "drip-down" area beneath the battery, mostly on the surface of a few components, not all over the boards, so that's good.
- Fuses are all good and proper ratings.
- Several connectors/pins look burnt/crispy, but based on what I'm seeing in other threads/videos, this is not uncommon, but clearly need replacing/cleanup.

It was suggested I do some basic voltage testing, starting with the TA 100 board and test points TP1 thru TP5. Here are the not so good readings (proper readings per TP 100 label in parenthesis):

TP1 = No reading (should be 5.4 VDC)
TP2 = 246 VDC (190 VDC)
TP3 = 14.7 VDC (11.9 VDC)
TP4 = No reading (43 VDC)
TP5 = 21.7 VAC (7.3 VAC)

Since the game isn't running, I'm guessing that might explain some of the higher voltages? The complete lack of reading at TP1 and TP4 are obviously not good.

As for what the game does, it emits a series of beeps/tones (2 short, pause, 1 short, pause, 2 longer). One display has a slight orange glow, oddly enough.

I know I have a LOT to do here, and I welcome advice/suggestions. Thanks!

#2 6 years ago

Some pics... I know they're not all pretty

TP_BR_Board (resized).jpgTP_BR_Board (resized).jpg

Head_Boards_Fullview (resized).jpgHead_Boards_Fullview (resized).jpg

Battery_Dmg (resized).jpgBattery_Dmg (resized).jpg

PF_2 (resized).jpgPF_2 (resized).jpg

#4 6 years ago

I don't see any activity on the LED sadly, but maybe it's really dim, I'll try in lower light. I have zero GI or any other activity aside from the sounds I mentioned, and that really dim glow on one of the displays. Should I try various other TP spots on the other boards and report back with readings?

#8 6 years ago

Sounds good, rectifier fix or replacement is my first target. I'll check a few more things before deciding if all new makes more sense. Should I just unplug all the connections from the front of the board until the voltages are correct?

It appears as though the front end had some moisture issues, as I see some rust there, but not elsewhere. The knocker plunger, flipper plungers, and transformer metal parts look rusty, but everything else pretty clean. I'm told this spent some years in a campground "arcade" so that doesn't surprise me.. those are often barns I've found. Will report back soon, thanks all

#9 6 years ago

Okay, so I just unplugged everything from the rectifier, aside from the bottom right plug (as it's the incoming feed from the power/power switch area). I just retested voltages, and check this out:

TP1 = 5.11 VDC
TP2 = 159.92 VDC
TP3 = 12.07 VDC
TP4 = no reading
TP5 = 10.7 VAC

TP1, TP3 and TP5 all look a lot better (though TP5 is still a little high), but TP2 went down and TP4 is still no reading.

Thoughts? I'm curious why unplugging the other connectors from the rectifier would actually cause the 5V to reappear.

#12 6 years ago

I found the fuse holder for the 190V section was dirty. Cleaned it up, which stabilized all the readings, but they're still off.

TP1 = 8.1V (too high)
TP2 = 174V (bit short of the 190V)
TP3 = 11.92V (perfect)
TP4 = no reading
TP5 = 10.7 VAC (still a little high)

I'll go over it all again, but I'm leaning towards a new board. This one is pretty beat and flaky.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

TP4 is the test point for your solenoid voltage. The game will not boot without this voltage.
I would suggest unplugging the play field connectors, replacing the SOL fuse with the proper value, and see if the SOL voltage holds without blowing the fuse.
If it still blows, you will likely need to replace a bridge on the rectifier board OR just buy a new rectifier board and solder it in.

I checked the TP4 fuse and tested it, it's the proper rating and isn't blown. Tested in-place too on the fuse holders, good connection there as well. So it's probably the bridge like you said. But yea... new board looking like the smart move.

#14 6 years ago

Board ordered, along with a bunch of connectors/pins/etc so I can work on changing those out too. Maybe I'll get lucky and the rectifier is the source of the game's issues ha. I won't hold my breath on that, but here's to hoping.

While I wait for the rectifier, connectors, etc, anything else board-wise I should dig into, or just sit tight for a couple of days while I wait?

#17 6 years ago

I figured I can always work on the old one and repair it in my spare time. It will likely come in handy one day, and good to practice on. Or someone I know will need/want it I'm sure.

I hate waiting for parts. Maybe I'll do some tear down and clean-up in the mean time... though I do prefer waiting until it's running before going too crazy. I see PBR doesn't have full flipper rebuild kits for this, so that stinks. In particular I really need a new plunger and link... which they don't have. Time to hunt.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

If the LED isn't even turning on on the MPU you're definitely going to want a corrosion repair kit (think big daddy sells them, or you can source your own parts).

Would the LED turn on if the voltages out of the rectifier board aren't right? I would think that would cause things like the MPU to not function, LED included, right?

Pinball life sells full brand new stern flipper mechs and all the parts in them.

Thanks - I'll check that out

#21 6 years ago

As suggested, pulled the MPU and Lamp Driver off to take a look. See pics for reference. The Good news is that the Lamp Driver looks good on the back. There are components that have corrosion/leakage on their surfaces, and a little on the legs, but I think all of this will clean-up alright, so Lamp Driver should be okay I believe (tell me if you think otherwise please).

The Bad news is the MPU is not looking great. Reviewing the back, the damage looks a little rough, but I'm new to this kind of corrosion, so I welcome your thoughts. Some of those traces look pretty eaten up. The corrosion is in more places than I expected, as seen in some of the photos. Honest opinions - is this a clean-up and save it situation, or am I in some trouble here?

Lamp_Driver_1 (resized).jpgLamp_Driver_1 (resized).jpg

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#23 6 years ago

After chatting with a few folks, I think I'm going to go the route of replacing the MPU, and then in my spare time working on the old one to see what I can do with it (and learn on it). I've done some board work in the past (cap kits, resistors, a few sockets, etc.) so I don't mind giving it a try when time permits. I'd rather spend the time working on the game in other ways, assuming I get it up and running. Hopefully the new rectifier and MPU (and new connectors) will sort out most of the issues.

While I wait for all the parts, I'll continue checking/cleaning other stuff. More to come... thanks all.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Galaxy and meteor give a quick double tap tone upon power up unlike most other mpu200 games.

When I first attempted to boot it up, I got the double tap tone, then a single tone, then a longer double tap. No other signs of life though. Given the wacky voltage readings at the rectifier, I'm surprised I even got what I did.

After cleaning all the fuse holders, which brought a few of the voltages closer to spec, I tried again. No tones anymore, just speaker hum. The 1st player display showed about 1/2 of a single digit lit up, which was odd. That was literally the only thing that happened. Attaching pic for kicks, since it's the most I saw in terms of life to date.

After all that, I decided to go with the new rectifier, and based on feedback, I'll be picking up a new MPU. Turns out the place selling them is literally 30mins from me, so I'll hopefully pick them up tomorrow and have a chance to try things out tomorrow afternoon or evening!

First thing will be to hook up the new rectifier and get some solid (and hopefully correct) voltage readings. Then we'll go from there.

Galaxy_1stPlayer_Score (resized).jpgGalaxy_1stPlayer_Score (resized).jpg

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from setzkor:

It does look pretty nice, but it's also clear you will be needing some new flipper bushings. Make sure you get the right size either type 1 or type 2 depending on the mfg date...unless of course you plan on upgrading the mechs as mentioned above.

The plungers are rust covered on the existing flippers, along with some of the other bits and pieces associated with them. It's one of the only areas that has that issue, which is strange. I'm guessing I'll need to rebuild and/or replace them entirely, but I'll worry about that once the machine is alive again. I've already got a growing "to be ordered if it lives" list haha.

#29 6 years ago

Washed the board with vinegar solution as suggested to neutralize corrosion. Dried with compressed air (and left for more drying overnight). Did some testing on the damaged spots, and surprisingly traces that looked rough all test okay. Cleaned up a couple sockets and tested through okay too. I'm sure the quality of the connections aren't great and could cause issues for sure, but I was honestly surprised so much was testing okay path-wise. Looks like this old MPU will be worth working on eventually.

Hopefully picking up the new rectifier and MPU today. I did notice that the TP4 and TP5 on the new rectifier are swapped in terms of marked voltages. My existing TA-100 Ver B has them TP4 43VDC, TP5 7.3VAC, but the info I'm seeing on the new board shows them the opposite. I'll have to be careful of that with wiring up the new board.

Wouldn't that alter my connector pinout too? I need to be careful and check this out a little before hooking anything up.

#30 6 years ago

Okay, new boards picked up. I soldered on the new rectifier and did a test with just the transformer's AC hooked up as suggested (Pins 6 & 7 on J2). All my voltages look good on the Test Points!

I checked my TP1 at the Solenoid Driver as well, and it's showing 5.10VDC, so we're good there.

I was going to install the Alltek Ultimate MPU, but I'm having trouble. Galaxy has a Sound board on the left side, mounted to the side of the head. It's in the way of the two connectors on the far left side of the Alltek board. They're set further to the left than the original MPU-200, it's annoying. I'm assuming plenty of people have installed Alltek MPUs in similar games - did they relocate the Sound board? Change the mounting holes on the bracket for the MPU? Seems like a hassle either way. Anyone dealt with this?

#31 6 years ago

Still need to figure out the above board-mounting issue, but I got it hooked up temporarily to test and... IT LIVES (sort of)!

Got a full boot up with tones and lights, sound working, insert lights rotating through/flashing in attract mode, and head GI nice and lit up. Displays are on, see pic, not sure if this is normal for them to sit there displaying all zeros.

None of the credit switches do anything. When I pressed the credit button, it sounded like the outhole kicker attempted to fire, and the background sound of a game in play started, but nothing else happened. Playfield dead, flippers dead, ball didn't kick out.

But hey... this is a big overall improvement. Thoughts on what's next?

Galaxy_Lives_1 (resized).jpgGalaxy_Lives_1 (resized).jpg

Galaxy_Lives_2 (resized).jpgGalaxy_Lives_2 (resized).jpg

#33 6 years ago

Here's the Sound Board issue in terms of space. The sink at the bottom and caps run into the lower connector on the MPU if I try to mount everything as it's designed. Even the way the bulk of the wires are run gets in the way, it can't fit back in the corner between the boards. (Note: wires are all removed from various tie-downs and such because I needed to move them out of the way to get the MPU installed. Normally they're crammed into that corner running up the back of the head)

Also, a pic of the Player 2 display from the back... I think I see a small issue there haha.

Sound_SpaceIssue (resized).jpgSound_SpaceIssue (resized).jpg
Display2 (resized).jpgDisplay2 (resized).jpg

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

See if the test button will get the game into test mode so you can get a better idea of what's wrong with the displays, solenoids, etc.

I took a quick video of the displays during overall burn-in self test mode (also ran the display-only test, same result). Looks like P1 display is hosed as you said. P2 display bottom row needs fixing. Rest of the displays all look good in the test I believe.

- Light test seemed good (aside from lots of burned out bulbs).
- Solenoid test I can hear some stuck/not firing, but most of them did, so that's good.
- Switch test showed a "4" on the display, which if I read the manual correctly means I have 4 closed switches and the rest are open. Not sure if I should have any closed or not? Maybe the outhole with the ball there, if it's included in the count would be one... but is 4 good or bad there?

Video of displays during test

Edit/Update - Game sat in attract mode without issue for a while (easily 5-10 mins) while I checked a few things. Now it seems to randomly reboot, enter attract mode, then reboot again 10-15 secs later. Sometimes it doesn't even fully boot before rebooting. I checked the voltage on the solenoid driver board... holding steady at 5.10 VDC.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Have you replaced the capacitor at C23 on Solenoid Driver board?

No, so far I've only replaced the rectifier and MPU.

Per the above I'll check the 12V and test points on the MPU next

Thanks in the switch explanation, I'll check that a as well

#41 6 years ago

Yep, all original. Guess I'll rebuild that board with a kit next.

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

I would also recommend you repin all connectors male and female. It eliminates random issues in the game. With issues you are having I would start with driver board J3 and MPU J4.

Okay,will do. I picked up a bunch of connectors from a localplace, but of course they were out of the connector sizes for the ones you just mentioned, so I don't have those.

Went to order the AS-2518-22 rebuild kit from Big Daddy, but he's running a $100 minimum right now, ouch. Is there another source for these caps/kits? I've been googling, and I can find the 15000uf/35V snap-in one at Digikey/Mouser/etc. Struggling with the other (150uf 350V or 400V, axial). Found one at Mouser, but for $17, which seemed odd.

Advice welcome on a good source for the kit that I may have missed in my searching (my brain hurts) thanks

#46 6 years ago

It's working! I did a bunch of testing and something seemed fishy with the connections coming off the rectifier. I had not repinned them all yet since it had booted fine with the existing connectors. Bonehead move. I just repinned and used new connectors... Game booted right up, credit switches work, game started and scoring, flippers, etc all work.

Tons left to do, and I'm still going to rebuild parts of the solenoid driver, but this is awesome. More to come, thanks all

#49 6 years ago

I'll be reflowing displays first thing in the morning. Then doing all the connectors I have handy. Just ordered the caps and other stuff from GPE, flipper rebuild kit and other parts from pinball life. I have a parts order going to PBR too, so I'll hit them for some stuff as well. Lots to work on, I appreciate all the help, I'm sure I'm not out of the woods yet.

#51 6 years ago

That's funny, as I was completing my GPE order, I was reading about replacing those resistors, so I ordered a bunch to do so. Glad I decided to! Also ordered the rest of the connectors I didn't have for repinning.

Can't sleep anymore, too excited, getting up to work on it.

#52 6 years ago

Header reflow on Player 1 display was a success, went from completely screwed up to working immediately. Still going to replace those resistors when they arrive, but wow, that was so simple. Going to try the same on Player 2 to see if it fixes the missing bottom row segment. If not, replacing Q16 should do that when I get the part with the rest of the stuff. EDIT: Adding pics

Going to try and figure out how to fix this mounting issue with the sound board and alltek mpu being in each other's way (see earlier thread pic if you're just catching up on the thread). I could extend some of the wires on the sound board and move it (yuck), or drill some new holes in the MPU mounting bracket so I can mount the plastic mounting studs higher... none of this sounds fun. Anyone else with a sound board there that has an Alltek? Is mine just weird?

P1_Display_Before (resized).jpgP1_Display_Before (resized).jpg

P1_Display_zAfter (resized).jpgP1_Display_zAfter (resized).jpg

#54 6 years ago

It was suggested I flip the sound board upside down, and that worked. I had to extend the wiring on two connectors, and I'll need to move the bundled wiring a little, but that's no big deal.

Sadly, I'm back to rebooting again. The game stays on a short time, then you hear the sound sort of die out slowly (like a dying battery) and the game reboots. Going to repin everything I can and wait for those solenoid board capacitors.

#55 6 years ago

Went through a bunch of issues today, but headed back in the right direction. I repinned a half-dozen connectors and when I turned the game back on, only GI came on. Took forever to track it down, but I found that the pin I put on the 12V was squished a bit when I inserted it into the connector. It wasn't making good contact with the headed pin. Fixed that, game booted up.

It ran for 7 minutes, then rebooted, then it just ran fine for over an hour before I turned it off. I let it sit in attract mode most of the time, but did start/finish one game to test scoring, solenoids, etc and see if it would reboot. It didn't. Seemed fine for a solid hour or so before I powered it down for the night. More repinning tomorrow I guess, might as well get them all and see if that helps.

#56 6 years ago

Fixed a bunch of bulbs today (almost all dirty sockets/bulbs), cleaned a bunch of stuff, and played some games, no issues. Going to keep doing the legwork (replace those capacitors when they arrive in the mail, more repinning, etc.), but overall I think I'm in the home stretch. We'll see... thanks all so far, more to come I'm sure.

#57 6 years ago

Argh... Help please. Going crazy at the moment... lost all GI and I can't figure out why. Maybe I'm tired. Game plays 100% fine aside from GI being off. Inserts are all lighting fine and working, displays/scoring all good, targets, flippers, etc. all fine. I don't know if there's a short or a gap or what, it's driving me nuts.

So if I just run 120AC ONLY to the Rectifier, which feeds the transformer, which then feeds back all the necessary voltages to the Rectifier, I get all the normal test voltages perfectly fine. This includes the 7.3VAC on TP4. All good. If I test the actual header output pins on any of the GI Bus/Return lines, I also get 7.3VAC, like I should.

If I plug in ANY of the GI lines, the TP4 reading drops to zero, as does the reading on the output pins. I tried this with the "cabinet" GI line (just lights coin slots basically), the Playfield, and the Backbox GI lines. All have the same issue.

I tried simply hooking up a bulb to the output, and the same thing happens, as soon as something is actually connected to the 7.3VAC pins, it's like they shut down and the TP4 drops to zero.

No fuses are blowing or anything.

Thoughts? Hoping I'm just exhausted and missing the obvious.

#58 6 years ago

This morning I unhooked everything aside from input 120V to transformer. I then ran jumpers directly from transformer 7.3VAC/Ground to each section of GI. As soon as I connect to any of the bulbs in that section, the entire section lights up just fine. I tried this for each of the (3) sections (Playfield, Backbox and Cabinet [which is just 3 bulbs on the coin door])

So with direct-lines to each GI section, lights work. I believe that narrows this down to something between the rectifier and each section of the GI... tracing what it goes through right now, I'm guessing Lamp driver and/or Solenoid driver boards.

#60 6 years ago

Hey, thanks for the reply. Galaxy was actually one of the first pins (first Stern for sure I believe) to have the flashing GI via the relay, so it does go through one. When everything flashes, the relay between the transformer and the rectifier triggers rapidly, flashing all the lights in the game together. Because the relay is before the rectifier, I do not believe it's the issue, as voltages test fine when I do not have any GI lines hooked up to the rectifier.

Yes, I switch the meter between DC and AC during testing as needed, no worries there.

The rectifier is brand new, and I repinned and replaced all the connectors before hooking it up. Everything was running 100% fine, GI included, until last night. All the 7.3VAC are simple GI lighting runs, as you mentioned. They literally just go out of the rectifier, to the bulbs, and straight back on the return path.

Since I know running the hot and neutral of the 7.3VAC on the transformer to each of the (3) GI paths allows them to work, I'm not trying to track down possible issues in the wiring between the rectifier and each GI section. Each of the paths is sectioned off on the RECT using various pin combinations. For example the 3 bulbs on the coin door run off J2 Pins 1 & 5. They are a separate run from the other GI, however all GIs share a common ground, which is why I'm guessing a problem with 1 run is causing all GI to be down.

I'm a bit stuck from here.

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

When this happens:
Do you still measure 7.3VAC at the transformer?
Do you still measure 7.3VAC both in and out of the GI relay (each blue wire)?
The GI relay is powered by the solenoid driver board. Do you measure 43V DC across the green and white/blue wires on the relay?

I will have to check. There are two relays, one between the transformer and the rectifier that causes the whole game to flash during attract mode and certain in-game actions. There's another on the solenoid driver board. The relay that causes all the lights to flash seems to be fine, as the game will still flash all the non-GI lights while sitting in attract mode, as the relay triggers normally.
If you're referring to the one I see on the solenoid driver board, not sure, haven't looked much at that yet.

Possibly stupid question: if I simply hook up AC through the rectifier and nothing else (which I know means I can successfully test 7.3VAC at all (4) of the GI Bus/Return positions), and then jumper between each Bus/Return pair through a bulb, could I test that way to verify the Rectifier is okay? Basically just put a single bulb on each known GI loop output/return and see if they light up. Since all of the GI runs are literally straight shots out of the rectifier, and do not go through any boards that I see, I'm wondering if that test would eliminate the rectifier as a possible issue?

#65 6 years ago

I think I may have figured it out. Not sure... I need to do a little work/checking. The bulb idea I had was initially a failure, but as I was testing some things, I decided to look closely at the relay for the GI "flashing" between the transformer and the rectifier. One of the lugs/legs on the relay, when bumped, caused all the "test lights" I had plugged in to come on. It's basically a loose connector I think, on that relay. Not sure if I'll be able to make that a better contact, or if I'll have to replace it, I need to pull it out a bit and look closely. Will report back in a bit, need to eat... been obsessed and starving haha.

#67 6 years ago

Anyone know the relay used? I tried to figure out looking at it, but the info is pretty scratched off. Don't see it in the manual. Guessing 48V, but not sure about the whole double vs. single throw stuff, etc. Going to look closer at it now.

#68 6 years ago

Thank you to all who chimed in about the current issue, especially those that mentioned that relay.

Confirmed - the GI/Light flashing Relay is the issue. There are multiple terminals/lugs on the relay. One of the "blue" wire terminals is loose, for lack of a better way of putting it. If I push on it slightly in one direction or another, the GI will go out or come on. I reflowed the wire connection in case that was part of the issue, but it's not. The terminal on the relay itself is simply loose. Trying to figure out what the replacement is now, and assuming it's not too expensive, I'll probably just go ahead and replace it.

Sidenote: my bulb idea did work as a good test. I wired up a single bulb to each GI Bus/Return pair off the rectifier using spare connectors I had, and I was able to successfully see when I found the issue (the bulbs all came on). If I ever have a short in one of the 4 GI paths, I'll be able to use that trick to troubleshoot which one down the road I guess.

Back to cleaning in the mean time, still waiting on some parts to change out the capacitors on the solenoid driver board, etc. More to come...

#71 6 years ago

According to PBR, the replacement is "1 X 25A-7-1 Relay 48V DC ", so that's what I'll be ordering shortly. For now the current one is fine, just iffy on the one terminal.

I stripped and cleaned the playfield last night, and swapped in a few LEDs I had laying around for fun. I'll be rebuilding the flippers and replacing the SDU capacitors this weekend. Going to read up and likely perform any ground mods if needed too. I've got a few more connectors to repin too, just so I can feel good about doing them all.

#72 6 years ago

Argh - here we go again. Galaxy ran great all last night, for a couple hours. Turned it on and off several times over several hours with no issues. Came home from work today, turned it on... new reboot issue. Now it's booting 95% of the way (doing normal beep/tones as it should), then at the last second, when the displays normally kick on and the game goes into attract, instead I'm getting a quick flash of the displays on/off (numbers appear for maybe 1/2 second) and then the whole thing reboots. This happens endlessly.

Seriously... come on machine.

#75 6 years ago

Recapping tomorrow morning. Still some repinning to do, so I'll do some more of that too. Going to run out of .100 pins, but I can still do several more connectors, should get most of them. I know a place 20-25 mins away where I can get more, so I'll probably just zip over tomorrow if I have time, might as well.

Crazy how well it worked less than 24 hours before, then this, but I assume once I get ALL this stuff done, it will be a lot more rock solid. At least I hope so.

#77 6 years ago

I was checking around under the playfield, because I remembered the last thing I did was rebuild the left flipper. (Speaking of which, I have a question about that below) I noticed that there is a nearby Tilt switch, and that it looked like it was bent closed, always touching. I bent it away, and the game just booted up fine. I guess I might have accidentally done that while working on the flipper since it was nearby. Would a Tilt being closed on boot cause a reset loop like that?

Now, back to the flipper rebuild question: The kit I received came with two small, nylon washers. Everything else in the kit made perfect sense, but I wasn't sure where those go. Anyone know? Nothing that came off the original flipper assembly resembled those little washers. I can post a pic if it helps, let me know.

#79 6 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

The washers go between the flipper bat and the bushing to space the bat high enough to clear the playfield - if necessary.

Thanks!

Capacitors today, should be simple enough.

Okay so ground mods... From the repair site, I'm doing the following on the SDU, correct? :

"...jump a piece of wire from the negative lead of capacitor C23 (the large filter cap we replaced above), to the trace right below it."

And

"...add a wire from TP1 to TP3. Jump these either on the solder or component side of the board"

#82 6 years ago

Another real quick and silly flipper rebuild question: Should the flipper be "stopped" by the nail/pin in the playfield on return, or should the flipper mechanism hit underneath the playfield to stop the backswing motion? My old flippers, before the rebuild, were not hitting the pin in the playfield, and instead the armature under the playfield was hitting the support structure to "stop" the motion. That seemed wrong to me. I setup the new one so that it's tightened at the exact point the flipper touches the playfield nail/pin/post. The return stroke of the flipper lightly hits that as it completes its motion. Is that correct?

#83 6 years ago

Capacitors done, ground mods done, connectors done! Game worked great, until...

I screwed something up. I changed a transistor on my 2nd player display because the bottom segment of the digits were missing. It was suggested I replace Q16, so I ordered the correct replacement (I thought) and did the work. Just plugged it all back in, turned on the machine, instant small pop/hiss and wisp of smoke from player 2 display. I turned the game off immediately. Unplugged that display, turned it back on... All displays are out. Resistor R19 on the P2 display is cooked. I don't see damage on other displays. Anyone know what happened?

Checked voltages on lamp driver, rectifier, solenoid driver, all seem fine. Game plays, just dead displays. Thoughts? I'm currently kicking myself for not just living with that missing segment. Ugh.

EDIT: Didn't notice displays had test points, just tested those. Player 2 display still unplugged. Other displays all shot TP1 = 5VDC, TP3 (which I believe is the high voltage) is showing nothing. But SDU high voltage test points TP2 and TP4 are showing 230VDC and 248VDC. So I've got power at the Rectifier Test point, and Solenoid Driver test point... but no glow on displays and it seem no power. Suggestions on where to look? Thanks

#87 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

That's a lot on TP2. That should be turned down to 190 ish. I run mine at 180. Some folks go lower. The displays also chained together. Did you swap a different display into P2 and see if they come back on?

I just pulled the 3/16 fuse on the Solenoid driver... blown it seems.

#88 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

What voltage do you have on the SDB at J3 pin 8?

One minute, I'll check that now, brb. Oh and I don't have any extra displays, did you mean move like display 4 to display 2 position?

Actually... with the blown fuse I'm pretty much stuck until I replace that I assume, can't really test much ha.

#90 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Correct. Move 4 to 2. But if the display fuse is blown....

I don't like that "..." at the end, you're scaring me. Replace fuse, don't hook up display #2, and try again right?

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Always check voltage before you hook anything back up. I was just saying by the ... if the fuse on the driver board is blown then you won't have displays anyway until it is replaced.

Whew, okay. So yea, I need a 3/16A 250V (slow blo I believe), and of course all the Radio Shacks are gone near me.

Once I have the fuse, what should I unplug before turning things back on and testing again, just the other displays? And for the slightly high voltage, just use the adjustment on the SDB to turn it down a bit I assume?

Thanks JT-P, I appreciate the help.

#93 6 years ago

Is my best bet to modify the fuse holder since these are no longer produced in the original smaller (~1") size? GPE doesn't have them, and I'm reading that they're hard to find. Can I do a 1/4A, 250V in the normal 1-1/4" size and modify the holder?

#95 6 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Yes, put leads on Tp2 and adjust the trimmer on the HV till voltage reads what you want to run displays.

Okay, I can do that without the fuse I guess, since it must hit that on the way out towards the displays... but I'll wait just in case

#96 6 years ago

TP2 is at around 200 now. I'll adjust a little more. What's the reason for lowering it so far? Protect the displays?

If anyone has the fuse lying around for this, please PM me, I'd gladly toss some money someone's way to have one sent over since I'm having trouble locating one.

#98 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Unplug all displays, test voltage on SDB, if it's good, plug in one display just in case, if it works, then should be safe to plug the rest in.

Okay, thanks. Sadly right now the soonest I can get a fuse is end of next week it seems. At least the exact right one.

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

If you can get one with the same value, just jumper it in to test

Not many 3/16A around here it seems. That being said, I'm pretty sure a 1/4A would be just fine, based on some other threads/posts I've seen. I'll see if I can snag one from a local hobbyist for testing.

#102 6 years ago

Thanks - sadly they have Qty in Stock "0" at the moment. I found a place with 8AG 1/4A, 250V, so that's on the way. I was able to put a 0.20A in there via jumpers, just to test, and all other displays are thankfully fine. I'll just need to repair/replace the one display. Whew. Friend is going to give me some untested displays to try, if those don't work, I might try a Wolffpac one.

Ordered new bushings for flippers (kit I bought didn't have them, which was odd). Not much left to do after that, hopefully this thing will be rock solid for a long time.

1 week later
#103 6 years ago

Just popping into the thread to mark it resolved. Everything is more or less working at this point, and anything left is just normal maintenance and basic stuff.

I ended up using an 8AG sized 1/4A, 250V fuse and it's been perfectly fine. I did find some 3/16A fuses in standard 1.25" size, but I see no point in modifying the fuse holder when the 1/4A is acceptable. Maybe down the road, but right now I'm fine.

Going to replace the 48V relay for the flashing lights in the near future (PBR had an inexpensive replacement in stock), but no rush.

One of the spare displays I got from a friend worked perfectly, so I'm good to go there.

Only other major item I took care of was the broken clear plastic on the upper left loop/kickout that sits below the main decorative plastic. Very common for these to break. Mine was already cracked, and after a ton of plays (and strong flippers post rebuild), it broke as expected. I had already traced it out on some lexan, since I knew this was coming. I was able to cut out a replacement with just a jigsaw (fine tooth metal cutting blade). Came out just fine, works great.

That's all for now. Anything moving forward, I'll start a new thread. I really appreciate everyone's help. I love the game, and hope to enjoy it for a good long while.

Thanks!

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