(Topic ID: 190361)

Stern Galaxy - Not booting, first SS

By MaxAsh

4 years ago


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  • 103 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by MaxAsh
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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  • Galaxy Stern Electronics, 1980

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There are 103 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 4 years ago

That's funny, as I was completing my GPE order, I was reading about replacing those resistors, so I ordered a bunch to do so. Glad I decided to! Also ordered the rest of the connectors I didn't have for repinning.

Can't sleep anymore, too excited, getting up to work on it.

#52 4 years ago

Header reflow on Player 1 display was a success, went from completely screwed up to working immediately. Still going to replace those resistors when they arrive, but wow, that was so simple. Going to try the same on Player 2 to see if it fixes the missing bottom row segment. If not, replacing Q16 should do that when I get the part with the rest of the stuff. EDIT: Adding pics

Going to try and figure out how to fix this mounting issue with the sound board and alltek mpu being in each other's way (see earlier thread pic if you're just catching up on the thread). I could extend some of the wires on the sound board and move it (yuck), or drill some new holes in the MPU mounting bracket so I can mount the plastic mounting studs higher... none of this sounds fun. Anyone else with a sound board there that has an Alltek? Is mine just weird?

P1_Display_Before (resized).jpg

P1_Display_zAfter (resized).jpg

#53 4 years ago

Reflow probably don't fix a missing segment. The number itself is sent over the connector, not the individual segments

#54 4 years ago

It was suggested I flip the sound board upside down, and that worked. I had to extend the wiring on two connectors, and I'll need to move the bundled wiring a little, but that's no big deal.

Sadly, I'm back to rebooting again. The game stays on a short time, then you hear the sound sort of die out slowly (like a dying battery) and the game reboots. Going to repin everything I can and wait for those solenoid board capacitors.

#55 4 years ago

Went through a bunch of issues today, but headed back in the right direction. I repinned a half-dozen connectors and when I turned the game back on, only GI came on. Took forever to track it down, but I found that the pin I put on the 12V was squished a bit when I inserted it into the connector. It wasn't making good contact with the headed pin. Fixed that, game booted up.

It ran for 7 minutes, then rebooted, then it just ran fine for over an hour before I turned it off. I let it sit in attract mode most of the time, but did start/finish one game to test scoring, solenoids, etc and see if it would reboot. It didn't. Seemed fine for a solid hour or so before I powered it down for the night. More repinning tomorrow I guess, might as well get them all and see if that helps.

#56 4 years ago

Fixed a bunch of bulbs today (almost all dirty sockets/bulbs), cleaned a bunch of stuff, and played some games, no issues. Going to keep doing the legwork (replace those capacitors when they arrive in the mail, more repinning, etc.), but overall I think I'm in the home stretch. We'll see... thanks all so far, more to come I'm sure.

#57 4 years ago

Argh... Help please. Going crazy at the moment... lost all GI and I can't figure out why. Maybe I'm tired. Game plays 100% fine aside from GI being off. Inserts are all lighting fine and working, displays/scoring all good, targets, flippers, etc. all fine. I don't know if there's a short or a gap or what, it's driving me nuts.

So if I just run 120AC ONLY to the Rectifier, which feeds the transformer, which then feeds back all the necessary voltages to the Rectifier, I get all the normal test voltages perfectly fine. This includes the 7.3VAC on TP4. All good. If I test the actual header output pins on any of the GI Bus/Return lines, I also get 7.3VAC, like I should.

If I plug in ANY of the GI lines, the TP4 reading drops to zero, as does the reading on the output pins. I tried this with the "cabinet" GI line (just lights coin slots basically), the Playfield, and the Backbox GI lines. All have the same issue.

I tried simply hooking up a bulb to the output, and the same thing happens, as soon as something is actually connected to the 7.3VAC pins, it's like they shut down and the TP4 drops to zero.

No fuses are blowing or anything.

Thoughts? Hoping I'm just exhausted and missing the obvious.

#58 4 years ago

This morning I unhooked everything aside from input 120V to transformer. I then ran jumpers directly from transformer 7.3VAC/Ground to each section of GI. As soon as I connect to any of the bulbs in that section, the entire section lights up just fine. I tried this for each of the (3) sections (Playfield, Backbox and Cabinet [which is just 3 bulbs on the coin door])

So with direct-lines to each GI section, lights work. I believe that narrows this down to something between the rectifier and each section of the GI... tracing what it goes through right now, I'm guessing Lamp driver and/or Solenoid driver boards.

#59 4 years ago

The GI does NOT go through the lamp driver board, it's power source comes directly from the rectifier board. The only exception would be if there is a relay/feature in the game to flicker the GI on/off. I do not believe Galaxy has this feature.

Furthermore, the only reason it goes through the RECT. board is to fuse the AC supply.

You could have a burnt up blackened pin/wire in the RECT. harness/plugs... Did you repin every connecter on the RECT. PCB plugs? Try wiggling the connectors with the game on to see if one of the GI pins is making a faulty connection to the GI.

GI is the most simple circuit in a early SS machine. Plug in wall-> main AC fuse-120VAC> AC transformer> GI voltage-6-8VAC> RECT. pcb-> GI fuse-> plugs/pin out to GI for PF+head+cabinet --END.

Quoted from MaxAsh:

I then ran jumpers directly from transformer 7.3VAC/Ground to each section of GI

When you mentioned this, you are aware that AC is not tested like DC voltage. There is no common "GROUND" like in DC, there is a supply wire and a return wire. Two different isolated wires to produce one AC voltage. Also on volt meter you need to switch it to "AC" unless it's an auto-sesning, auto-ranging meter.

#60 4 years ago

Hey, thanks for the reply. Galaxy was actually one of the first pins (first Stern for sure I believe) to have the flashing GI via the relay, so it does go through one. When everything flashes, the relay between the transformer and the rectifier triggers rapidly, flashing all the lights in the game together. Because the relay is before the rectifier, I do not believe it's the issue, as voltages test fine when I do not have any GI lines hooked up to the rectifier.

Yes, I switch the meter between DC and AC during testing as needed, no worries there.

The rectifier is brand new, and I repinned and replaced all the connectors before hooking it up. Everything was running 100% fine, GI included, until last night. All the 7.3VAC are simple GI lighting runs, as you mentioned. They literally just go out of the rectifier, to the bulbs, and straight back on the return path.

Since I know running the hot and neutral of the 7.3VAC on the transformer to each of the (3) GI paths allows them to work, I'm not trying to track down possible issues in the wiring between the rectifier and each GI section. Each of the paths is sectioned off on the RECT using various pin combinations. For example the 3 bulbs on the coin door run off J2 Pins 1 & 5. They are a separate run from the other GI, however all GIs share a common ground, which is why I'm guessing a problem with 1 run is causing all GI to be down.

I'm a bit stuck from here.

#61 4 years ago

I think these statements are contradicting each other...

Quoted from MaxAsh:

I'm not trying to track down possible issues in the wiring between the rectifier and each GI section.

Quoted from MaxAsh:

which is why I'm guessing a problem with 1 run is causing all GI to be down.

This is very possible but that will typically blow the fuse. So this is odd.

I agree, one run (wire) could be causing your issues. With all pinball issues it's ALWAYS a connection. ALWAYS!

Can you DEPIN the individual 3 GI return pins to the RECT board and test each one by reconnection each pin, one at a time, cycling power with each pin? This should tell you if your theory is correct. Other possibility is that the harness was repined wrong or, was originally pinned wrong. Since you confirmed that a relay is present in Galaxy, I would bypass it once just to confirm that it is not the problem. Relays like this DO FAIL all the time. Does the relay click when it should, even when the GI does not work?

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

I tried simply hooking up a bulb to the output, and the same thing happens, as soon as something is actually connected to the 7.3VAC pins, it's like they shut down and the TP4 drops to zero.

When this happens:
Do you still measure 7.3VAC at the transformer?
Do you still measure 7.3VAC both in and out of the GI relay (each blue wire)?

The GI relay is powered by the solenoid driver board. Do you measure 43V DC across the green and white/blue wires on the relay?

#63 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

When this happens:
Do you still measure 7.3VAC at the transformer?
Do you still measure 7.3VAC both in and out of the GI relay (each blue wire)?
The GI relay is powered by the solenoid driver board. Do you measure 43V DC across the green and white/blue wires on the relay?

I will have to check. There are two relays, one between the transformer and the rectifier that causes the whole game to flash during attract mode and certain in-game actions. There's another on the solenoid driver board. The relay that causes all the lights to flash seems to be fine, as the game will still flash all the non-GI lights while sitting in attract mode, as the relay triggers normally.
If you're referring to the one I see on the solenoid driver board, not sure, haven't looked much at that yet.

Possibly stupid question: if I simply hook up AC through the rectifier and nothing else (which I know means I can successfully test 7.3VAC at all (4) of the GI Bus/Return positions), and then jumper between each Bus/Return pair through a bulb, could I test that way to verify the Rectifier is okay? Basically just put a single bulb on each known GI loop output/return and see if they light up. Since all of the GI runs are literally straight shots out of the rectifier, and do not go through any boards that I see, I'm wondering if that test would eliminate the rectifier as a possible issue?

#64 4 years ago

The 7.3 volts on the rectifier is only a pass thru for the fuse. The rectifier dose nothing to this voltage. It comes off the transformer at lugs 17 and 18. Set your meter to AC and put on the transformer lugs 17 and 18, should get 7.3 vac. If you don't, more than likely you have an issue with transformer.

#65 4 years ago

I think I may have figured it out. Not sure... I need to do a little work/checking. The bulb idea I had was initially a failure, but as I was testing some things, I decided to look closely at the relay for the GI "flashing" between the transformer and the rectifier. One of the lugs/legs on the relay, when bumped, caused all the "test lights" I had plugged in to come on. It's basically a loose connector I think, on that relay. Not sure if I'll be able to make that a better contact, or if I'll have to replace it, I need to pull it out a bit and look closely. Will report back in a bit, need to eat... been obsessed and starving haha.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

I think I may have figured it out. Not sure... I need to do a little work/checking. The bulb idea I had was initially a failure, but as I was testing some things, I decided to look closely at the relay for the GI "flashing" between the transformer and the rectifier. One of the lugs/legs on the relay, when bumped, caused all the "test lights" I had plugged in to come on. It's basically a loose connector I think, on that relay. Not sure if I'll be able to make that a better contact, or if I'll have to replace it, I need to pull it out a bit and look closely. Will report back in a bit, need to eat... been obsessed and starving haha.

Sounds promissing. Keep us posted.

#67 4 years ago

Anyone know the relay used? I tried to figure out looking at it, but the info is pretty scratched off. Don't see it in the manual. Guessing 48V, but not sure about the whole double vs. single throw stuff, etc. Going to look closer at it now.

#68 4 years ago

Thank you to all who chimed in about the current issue, especially those that mentioned that relay.

Confirmed - the GI/Light flashing Relay is the issue. There are multiple terminals/lugs on the relay. One of the "blue" wire terminals is loose, for lack of a better way of putting it. If I push on it slightly in one direction or another, the GI will go out or come on. I reflowed the wire connection in case that was part of the issue, but it's not. The terminal on the relay itself is simply loose. Trying to figure out what the replacement is now, and assuming it's not too expensive, I'll probably just go ahead and replace it.

Sidenote: my bulb idea did work as a good test. I wired up a single bulb to each GI Bus/Return pair off the rectifier using spare connectors I had, and I was able to successfully see when I found the issue (the bulbs all came on). If I ever have a short in one of the 4 GI paths, I'll be able to use that trick to troubleshoot which one down the road I guess.

Back to cleaning in the mean time, still waiting on some parts to change out the capacitors on the solenoid driver board, etc. More to come...

#69 4 years ago

What kind of relay do you need, exactly? Could you post a pic or 2?

#70 4 years ago

Might be some useful details on the relay in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-galaxy-wont-start

You should probably replace the relay socket at the same time.

#71 4 years ago

According to PBR, the replacement is "1 X 25A-7-1 Relay 48V DC ", so that's what I'll be ordering shortly. For now the current one is fine, just iffy on the one terminal.

I stripped and cleaned the playfield last night, and swapped in a few LEDs I had laying around for fun. I'll be rebuilding the flippers and replacing the SDU capacitors this weekend. Going to read up and likely perform any ground mods if needed too. I've got a few more connectors to repin too, just so I can feel good about doing them all.

#72 4 years ago

Argh - here we go again. Galaxy ran great all last night, for a couple hours. Turned it on and off several times over several hours with no issues. Came home from work today, turned it on... new reboot issue. Now it's booting 95% of the way (doing normal beep/tones as it should), then at the last second, when the displays normally kick on and the game goes into attract, instead I'm getting a quick flash of the displays on/off (numbers appear for maybe 1/2 second) and then the whole thing reboots. This happens endlessly.

Seriously... come on machine.

#73 4 years ago

Have you finished repinning connectors?

#74 4 years ago

I wouldn't worry about it until you recap

#75 4 years ago

Recapping tomorrow morning. Still some repinning to do, so I'll do some more of that too. Going to run out of .100 pins, but I can still do several more connectors, should get most of them. I know a place 20-25 mins away where I can get more, so I'll probably just zip over tomorrow if I have time, might as well.

Crazy how well it worked less than 24 hours before, then this, but I assume once I get ALL this stuff done, it will be a lot more rock solid. At least I hope so.

#76 4 years ago

Once you get the machine running properly, it's unlikely you'll have many problems with it. I find these machines to be very reliable once you've done the re-capping/re-pinning/etc.

Ground mods are definitely a good call too. Game looks awesome, btw!

#77 4 years ago

I was checking around under the playfield, because I remembered the last thing I did was rebuild the left flipper. (Speaking of which, I have a question about that below) I noticed that there is a nearby Tilt switch, and that it looked like it was bent closed, always touching. I bent it away, and the game just booted up fine. I guess I might have accidentally done that while working on the flipper since it was nearby. Would a Tilt being closed on boot cause a reset loop like that?

Now, back to the flipper rebuild question: The kit I received came with two small, nylon washers. Everything else in the kit made perfect sense, but I wasn't sure where those go. Anyone know? Nothing that came off the original flipper assembly resembled those little washers. I can post a pic if it helps, let me know.

#78 4 years ago

The washers go between the flipper bat and the bushing to space the bat high enough to clear the playfield - if necessary.

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

The washers go between the flipper bat and the bushing to space the bat high enough to clear the playfield - if necessary.

Thanks!

Capacitors today, should be simple enough.

Okay so ground mods... From the repair site, I'm doing the following on the SDU, correct? :

"...jump a piece of wire from the negative lead of capacitor C23 (the large filter cap we replaced above), to the trace right below it."

And

"...add a wire from TP1 to TP3. Jump these either on the solder or component side of the board"

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Would a Tilt being closed on boot cause a reset loop like that?

I had that on my Meteor when I got it, caused the original board to do all sorts of weird things, and the Alltek either wouldn't boot at all, or wouldn't display anything. Not sure why they act different.

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Thanks!
Capacitors today, should be simple enough.
Okay so ground mods... From the repair site, I'm doing the following on the SDU, correct? :
"...jump a piece of wire from the negative lead of capacitor C23 (the large filter cap we replaced above), to the trace right below it."
And
"...add a wire from TP1 to TP3. Jump these either on the solder or component side of the board"

BallySternSDBupgrades (resized).jpg

#82 4 years ago

Another real quick and silly flipper rebuild question: Should the flipper be "stopped" by the nail/pin in the playfield on return, or should the flipper mechanism hit underneath the playfield to stop the backswing motion? My old flippers, before the rebuild, were not hitting the pin in the playfield, and instead the armature under the playfield was hitting the support structure to "stop" the motion. That seemed wrong to me. I setup the new one so that it's tightened at the exact point the flipper touches the playfield nail/pin/post. The return stroke of the flipper lightly hits that as it completes its motion. Is that correct?

#83 4 years ago

Capacitors done, ground mods done, connectors done! Game worked great, until...

I screwed something up. I changed a transistor on my 2nd player display because the bottom segment of the digits were missing. It was suggested I replace Q16, so I ordered the correct replacement (I thought) and did the work. Just plugged it all back in, turned on the machine, instant small pop/hiss and wisp of smoke from player 2 display. I turned the game off immediately. Unplugged that display, turned it back on... All displays are out. Resistor R19 on the P2 display is cooked. I don't see damage on other displays. Anyone know what happened?

Checked voltages on lamp driver, rectifier, solenoid driver, all seem fine. Game plays, just dead displays. Thoughts? I'm currently kicking myself for not just living with that missing segment. Ugh.

EDIT: Didn't notice displays had test points, just tested those. Player 2 display still unplugged. Other displays all shot TP1 = 5VDC, TP3 (which I believe is the high voltage) is showing nothing. But SDU high voltage test points TP2 and TP4 are showing 230VDC and 248VDC. So I've got power at the Rectifier Test point, and Solenoid Driver test point... but no glow on displays and it seem no power. Suggestions on where to look? Thanks

#84 4 years ago

Check voltages on the other displays, each has test points.

#85 4 years ago

That's a lot on TP2. That should be turned down to 190 ish. I run mine at 180. Some folks go lower. The displays also chained together. Did you swap a different display into P2 and see if they come back on?

#86 4 years ago

What voltage do you have on the SDB at J3 pin 8?

#87 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

That's a lot on TP2. That should be turned down to 190 ish. I run mine at 180. Some folks go lower. The displays also chained together. Did you swap a different display into P2 and see if they come back on?

I just pulled the 3/16 fuse on the Solenoid driver... blown it seems.

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

What voltage do you have on the SDB at J3 pin 8?

One minute, I'll check that now, brb. Oh and I don't have any extra displays, did you mean move like display 4 to display 2 position?

Actually... with the blown fuse I'm pretty much stuck until I replace that I assume, can't really test much ha.

#89 4 years ago

Correct. Move 4 to 2. But if the display fuse is blown....

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Correct. Move 4 to 2. But if the display fuse is blown....

I don't like that "..." at the end, you're scaring me. Replace fuse, don't hook up display #2, and try again right?

#91 4 years ago

Always check voltage before you hook anything back up. I was just saying by the ... if the fuse on the driver board is blown then you won't have displays anyway until it is replaced.

#92 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Always check voltage before you hook anything back up. I was just saying by the ... if the fuse on the driver board is blown then you won't have displays anyway until it is replaced.

Whew, okay. So yea, I need a 3/16A 250V (slow blo I believe), and of course all the Radio Shacks are gone near me.

Once I have the fuse, what should I unplug before turning things back on and testing again, just the other displays? And for the slightly high voltage, just use the adjustment on the SDB to turn it down a bit I assume?

Thanks JT-P, I appreciate the help.

#93 4 years ago

Is my best bet to modify the fuse holder since these are no longer produced in the original smaller (~1") size? GPE doesn't have them, and I'm reading that they're hard to find. Can I do a 1/4A, 250V in the normal 1-1/4" size and modify the holder?

#94 4 years ago

Yes, put leads on Tp2 and adjust the trimmer on the HV till voltage reads what you want to run displays.

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Yes, put leads on Tp2 and adjust the trimmer on the HV till voltage reads what you want to run displays.

Okay, I can do that without the fuse I guess, since it must hit that on the way out towards the displays... but I'll wait just in case

#96 4 years ago

TP2 is at around 200 now. I'll adjust a little more. What's the reason for lowering it so far? Protect the displays?

If anyone has the fuse lying around for this, please PM me, I'd gladly toss some money someone's way to have one sent over since I'm having trouble locating one.

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

what should I unplug before turning things back on and testing again

Unplug all displays, test voltage on SDB, if it's good, plug in one display just in case, if it works, then should be safe to plug the rest in.

#98 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Unplug all displays, test voltage on SDB, if it's good, plug in one display just in case, if it works, then should be safe to plug the rest in.

Okay, thanks. Sadly right now the soonest I can get a fuse is end of next week it seems. At least the exact right one.

#99 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Okay, thanks. Sadly right now the soonest I can get a fuse is end of next week it seems. At least the exact right one.

If you can get one with the same value, just jumper it in to test

#100 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

If you can get one with the same value, just jumper it in to test

Not many 3/16A around here it seems. That being said, I'm pretty sure a 1/4A would be just fine, based on some other threads/posts I've seen. I'll see if I can snag one from a local hobbyist for testing.

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