(Topic ID: 231291)

Stern Flipper Weakness

By wxforecaster

5 years ago


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#22 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I see no noticeable change in flipper strength when adjusting the eos to open as soon as the flipper starts to move. Every thing I've ever heard about eos in solid state flippers says that they're only for rebound and are ignored for the initial power stroke

I know for a fact this is not the case for Whitestar at least, as I've debugged the weak flipper issue below. In fact, it also produced strange symptoms such as apparently seeming to weaken over time according to the player. But it was a faulty EOS verified in diagnostics and on addressing the issue, all symptoms disappeared.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flipper-gets-weak-as-coil-heats-up-why

#23 5 years ago

I don't have any Spike 2 games, do they have the 3 flipper parameters in config like Whitestar does? I'm guessing not, but it's convenient to use these to debug EOS issues.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I when fixing my GOT, the switch diagnostics would show the eos open, then when it closed. I found out it was flaky when it would not always register as closed. Actually took a couple new eos switches before I finally found one that always registered as closed.
No issues since.

Yup, from what it seems the algorithms handling the flippers have gotten somewhat complicated over time and use a combination of timing parameters and EOS inputs to control operation. This was neatly (but dangerously) exposed in Whitestar config. Even then (and still now) people claimed EOS does nothing, which I found to be false.

What symptoms were you seeing before your fix?

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Like every 4-5 flips, when you’d flip, it would be super weak. So if you’re lining up the center ramp on GOT, it would shoot the left orbit and barely touch the spinner. Haha

Seems you often get weird symptoms like this because of either intermittent issue or algorithms that are good enough to compensate sometimes but not always, so the EOS is no longer as fail-fast as it used to be. Because it isn't, some think they do nothing. But your description makes it sound like the logic is still similar to what I've observed on Whitestar.

It definitely pays to test them thoroughly in diagnostics like you did. I would do that in this case, and if it still looks fine, you can further verify by switching left/right EOS and see if the issue follows.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Can you tell me more about this?

The "dangerous" might be an exaggeration, as it seems the values are range-limited. I read a lot of nonsense about EOS when I debugged that problem: even Pinwiki has a poor description. You can read some good info in LoTR SB 151. It works, and it works well even to override a flaky EOS, if you understand it. If you don't, probably best to pay attention to the warning and not mess with it.

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