(Topic ID: 343131)

Stern Dracula- Upper Flipper Won't Hold

By tomdrum

10 months ago


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  • 36 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Quench
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#1 10 months ago

Fixing up a Stern Dracula and the upper flipper will not stay up when the flipper button is held. Both lower flipper switches are new and the upper EOS. I've tried grounding the upper coil on the low winding side (unbanded side) and it does hold. Is it wired correctly?

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#2 10 months ago

Put a jumper on the outer EOS on the bottom flipper (the one that cascades the power to the top flipper) - does it work now?

When you do the test on the upper flipper via the grounding, it flips or just holds?

#3 10 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Put a jumper on the outer EOS on the bottom flipper (the one that cascades the power to the top flipper) - does it work now?
When you do the test on the upper flipper via the grounding, it flips or just holds?

Where do I connect that jumper? The EOS?

When grounded the upper flipper flipped and held.

#4 10 months ago

The other eos on the lower flipper those two contacts that are normally open pinch those together.

#5 10 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

The other eos on the lower flipper those two contacts that are normally open pinch those together.

I meant the upper connection, sorry.

1 week later
#6 10 months ago

Got back to working on this. If the close the 2nd top EOS switch (normally open) the upper flipper will flip one and not hold. If I ground the non- banded side of the upper flipper it flips once and holds. Missing ground somewhere.

#7 10 months ago

The usual cause of 'flipper flips once and drops' is because either the hold winding wire is broken at the terminal, (I'm not seeing this in your pictures...)

or even more commonly that the tiny magnet wire that attaches to the hold terminal is broken. I use a sharp probe, and tug slightly on the tiny magnet wires going to the solder terminals. If it isn't connected and you tug slightly on it, it will pull loose. This will be broken right at the terminal, and resoldering that magnet wire to the terminal fixes the problem.

I suppose that the power wire that normally is at the hold winding terminal could be disconnected at it's other end, but I always find it broken at the coil that isn't holding.

Examine the wires, make sure everything survives the 'tug on the wire' test.

#8 10 months ago
Quoted from PinRetail:

The usual cause of 'flipper flips once and drops' is because either the hold winding wire is broken at the terminal, (I'm not seeing this in your pictures...)
or even more commonly that the tiny magnet wire that attaches to the hold terminal is broken. I use a sharp probe, and tug slightly on the tiny magnet wires going to the solder terminals. If it isn't connected and you tug slightly on it, it will pull loose. This will be broken right at the terminal, and resoldering that magnet wire to the terminal fixes the problem.
I suppose that the power wire that normally is at the hold winding terminal could be disconnected at it's other end, but I always find it broken at the coil that isn't holding.
Examine the wires, make sure everything survives the 'tug on the wire' test.

Thanks I will look at that although I have tried 3 coils and all have done the same thing.

#9 10 months ago

So it's not that coil. It has to be the power to the hold winding.

The schematics for your game are here:

https://www.ipdb.org/files/728/Stern_1979_Dracula_Schematic_Diagrams_paginated.pdf

Pdf page 3 shows the wiring of the flippers.

The blue/white wire needs to go to the BANDED side of the edge terminal. In your top picture this is is the bottom of the coil, in the bottom picture it's the top of the coil. Also attached to this terminal should be an orange wire to the End of Stroke switch. The other side of the End of Stroke Switch should have another orange wire to the center terminal. The only thing on the center terminal should be this wire from the End of Stroke switch.

This should supply power to your hold winding.

What I'm seeing in the pictures all looks correct.

Now, the ground path through the flipper button is the green wire in the top picture, and through the 'I've activated this flipper, so I connect the green wire connection from this flipper to the Grey-black wire to the other coil to activate it through the normally open switch attached to the EOS'.

So we've got something weird going on here. If the power winding can activate on the top flipper, you have to have power and ground to the upper flipper assembly. And unless the hold winding is disconnected (or it's magnet wire is broken), it should hold in as long as power is available, even when the power winding has power removed because of the upper flipper's end of stroke switch.

Yeah, I don't have an answer here, if the hold winding is properly connected to terminals 1 and 3 of the coil.

Strange.

#10 9 months ago

It has me stumped. Here is the upper flipper wiring. I had a friend with a Dracula text me pics to confirm.

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#11 9 months ago

Is there a barely visible blade with contact there? I see the dead blade (which is bent away) and the top blade.... (the one that moves when open).... is there one in the center?

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Is there a barely visible blade with contact there? I see the dead blade (which is bent away) and the top blade.... (the one that moves when open).... is there one in the center?

Yes. New EOS switch which is closed.

#13 9 months ago

a new EOS can look closed but actually is not.

best way to test is with a meter for continuity.

most times new tungsten tipped contacts need a clean, like with IPA, or a super fine wet n dry sandpaper, like 2000 grit.

you must read next to zero ohms resistance across all EOS switches.

#14 9 months ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

a new EOS can look closed but actually is not.
best way to test is with a meter for continuity.
most times new tungsten tipped contacts need a clean, like with IPA, or a super fine wet n dry sandpaper, like 2000 grit.
you must read next to zero ohms resistance across all EOS switches.

I wish that was the problem but the upper EOS switch and the lower secondary switch when closed both ohm at .2 resistance.

#15 9 months ago

And if it's EOS not closing, you lose power winding, not hold winding.

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

I've tried grounding the upper coil on the low winding side (unbanded side) and it does hold.

Use your ground wire to backtrack the ground source.
Does grounding the grey-black wire at the upper flipper work?
Next ground the grey-black wire at source which is at the 2nd switch at the lower flipper mech.
The other contact on that same 2nd lower flipper mech switch is a green wire. Ground there next.

#17 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Does grounding the grey-black wire at the upper flipper work?

Grounding that does allow the upper flipper to hold. I assume then I have a break somewhere in that wire to the upper flipper.

#18 9 months ago

It does show continuity between the upper and lower gray wire with resistance at .2 ohms.

#19 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Grounding that does allow the upper flipper to hold. I assume then I have a break somewhere in that wire to the upper flipper.

So work your way back down the chain on those other connection points as I mentioned.

Quoted from tomdrum:

It does show continuity between the upper and lower gray wire with resistance at .2 ohms.

Ignore the reading for the moment, let your ground wire prove conductivity when there's decent current flow.

#20 9 months ago

Grounding the gray at the lower flipper causes the upper flipper to hold. Grounding the green does not.

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Grounding the gray at the lower flipper causes the upper flipper to hold. Grounding the green does not.

There's your answer. That normally open 2nd switch is not making good conductivity when there is high current flow.

[EDIT] confirm if you had that switch closed (mechanically or by pressing the flipper button)

#23 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Switch was open when I tested it.

Ground the green wire again while holding the flipper button pressed in, so that 2nd switch is closed.

#24 9 months ago

I closed the switch with an alligator clip and grounded the green wire and the upper flipper held. I then unhooked everything and now the upper flipper is holding as it should. Why, I don't have clue. Fixed.

Thanks for everyone's help.

#25 9 months ago

Correction. It is not fixed. When I tested it I still had the alligator clip on the lower flipper 2nd switch. I'm going to fiddle with that switch.

#26 9 months ago

Very strange. The lower 2nd EOS switch shows continuity at the switch tabs when the switch is open. 6.5 ohms of resistance. Upper flipper does not hold when flipper button is pressed. If I clamp it closed, flipper will hold.

What the harm in just keeping it clamped closed?

#27 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

What the harm in just keeping it clamped closed?

Burn up coil if flipper button is held in.

LTG : )

#28 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

What the harm in just keeping it clamped closed?

Both flippers flip at the same time so more stress on bridge rectifier. Personally i usually set my multi flipper games to do this anyway and I haven't had any issues.

#29 9 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Burn up coil if flipper button is held in.
LTG : )

Not on the second cascade switch. Assuming he means that one that's normally open...

#30 9 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Not on the second cascade switch. Assuming he means that one that's normally open...

Yes the normally open 2nd switch on the lower flipper.

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Upper flipper does not hold when flipper button is pressed. If I clamp it closed, flipper will hold.

Did you inspect that switch? It either needs to be filed to remove the protective film it was shipped with or it isn't closing enough for good contact.

#32 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Did you inspect that switch? It either needs to be filed to remove the protective film it was shipped with or it isn't closing enough for good contact.

What's weird about that switch is that it showed continuity when open between the lugs. When manually closed with the flipper crank it showed .4 ohms at the lugs. I stuck another in and it's the same. I filed both of them. Neither one would hold the upper flipper. Yet if I clamp it shut the upper flipper will hold.

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Did you inspect that switch? It either needs to be filed to remove the protective film it was shipped with or it isn't closing enough for good contact.

The switch I'm installing is a Bally "form A" from PBR.

#34 9 months ago

Do the leaf blades need more tension holding them closed ?

LTG : )

#35 9 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Do the leaf blades need more tension holding them closed ?
LTG : )

After adjusting the switch gap to a hair thickness apart, it works fine now. Thanks Lloyd.

#36 9 months ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

What's weird about that switch is that it showed continuity when open between the lugs.

You were reading continuity back through the flipper coils.

Dracula_Flippers.pngDracula_Flippers.png

Quoted from tomdrum:

When manually closed with the flipper crank it showed .4 ohms at the lugs. ...
Yet if I clamp it shut the upper flipper will hold.

Contact wasn't firm enough once current levels rose.

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