This thread reminds me of what I hate most about this hobby.....people complaining, bashing, etc......

Vid said it best......why good people in the industry left or will not post on pinside. It's a shame.

Vid is also correct that you buy from a distributor......if you have an issue you should discuss with them. And again.....Do not pay in advance......a small REFUNDABLE deposit perhaps but a good distributor does not need your money upfront for them to order your game. Distributors want the games more than you......they can't stay in business if they can't get games to customers...........unless people continue to feed them by paying in advance for a game that is not in stock.

Your distributor is who owes you info regarding delivery of your game.........Stern owes nothing but a product to your distributor.

Last point is there are rules distributors must follow.....if they don't they may suffer. Part of that is what they are allowed to publicly disclose to consumers. This is common practice by almost EVERY manufacturer. Distributors may know more about the nature of the delays but may not be able to provide full details. Confidentiality agreements suck for consumers but are needed to protect businesses.

But if we did find out the exact cause for the delays there would be mass hysteria on pinside causing a complete shift in the space time continuum resulting in a paradox that would destroy the universe ?
It's only pinball.....going to play some now

You have planter fatiatus (sp?) just like me. Get good insoles and stretch every morning.

Heighway barely posts here, and hasn't manufactured any significant quantity of games yet. Give them time. Pinside is indeed full of trolls, and they did run off JJP and Stern. Professionalism is not allowing oneself to get dragged down into the muck, and both companies have found the best way to avoid that is to avoid the muck in the first place.

99% sure it's Sterns production lines fault.

You all forget Stern's announcement of GB was hurried up by all the leaked playfield and game pictures. They had to announce it early at that point... this, combined with some supply issues, equals delays.

Stern told you not to preorder. If you preordered anyway and are whining about it now. you have only yourself to blame.

Stern told you not to preorder. If you preordered anyway and are whining about it now. you have only yourself to blame.

Written twice for those who just don't get it. If you HAVEN'T preordered, then buy something in distributor stock; or, wait til new games are produced and in stock, then buy something in distributor stock. Stern knows shit can happen, that is why they keep saying to buy what is in stock, and not what hasn't been made yet. They owe no one any explanation except their shareholders and distributors.

Yeesh. Next time a vet in this thread complains about Pinside comments toward Stern, maybe take a look at comments like these and appreciate the irony. And you vets are upvoting this! Unless my sarcasm detector is off, then egg on my face I guess.

WTB: Medusa or South Park

since this thread has a lot of activity and many off topic posts (ice cream mmmmmm), I figured I could post a WTB and people would see it

... and no, this is not replacing my GB ... no one can convince me to cancel

You should get to know people a bit more and understand their humor before going off on them...

I thought of this right after posting. I made an edit right when you posted. I guess the egg is on my face...

Its all good, man, seriously.

Oh Larry...my hero...
But shouldn't that go both ways ? Shouldn't I also get to know CryHavoc and his sense of humor before making a dickish joke like I made ? The answer is no.

Tuesday--party.
Wednesday--party
Thursday--party
Friday--
--A.M.---party
--P.M.---party
Sat--party
Sunday---race
I don't believe in Mondays. Just cause you do doesn't mean I have to.

I agree with all of what vid said:

Pinsiders are such a squawking bunch of hens; they are the proverbial "You can't handle the truth".
Let's say something crazy happened like CCC stopped making playfields and cabinets for Stern, after 100 years in the business.
Let's also say that Stern came out and announced this in a press release.
Pinside would explode with nonsense:
"I knew it. QC was crashing. There was a Metallica at the local bar with a decal peeling."
"CCC playfields were crap. My ST has hundreds of dimples. I have a NGG that does not have single dimple - I checked"
"I fully understand them ditching CCC. Claay told me never to wax my playfield, and my IM now actually has wear in the shooter lane! Total shit!"
"When they start getting new playfields, I expect a replacement for my old one with a chip in the insert. $4700 and the insert chips after 3 years??????"
-
Now let's say that Stern announces that another amusement company, let's say Fun Industries, is going to be their new supplier of playfields and cabs.
Pinside would again go crazy with nonsense:
"What the Fnck???? I've never heard of Fun Industries?"
"The prices better reflect a discount for using another company."
"I saw a Fun Corn-Hole game, and it was broken. Stern better get ready for a lot of returns"
"Fun does not have any pinball experience! How the hell are they going to be able to route holes in a piece of plywood and silkscreen it???? Pinballs are high tech!!!!!"
-
Now let's say that Fun Industries makes the EXACT same quality playfields that CCC did.
Pinside would explode with every little problem:
"I've got one raised insert! Fun is shit! Neither my Tron nor my LOTR ever had a raised insert!!!!!"
"Another classic move by Stern to cut costs!!!"
"My new playfield is not as shiny as my 90's games. Another QC nightmare for Stern"
"Look, there is chipping in my outhole!!!! This is the last Stern I'm ever buying.....whaaaaa!!!"
"I've got dimples in my new playfield!!!!! Neither Stern nor Fun will do anything about it!!!!!"
"I'll tell you right now, I'm not having fun with my new Fun playfield....."
-
Stern would be better off just quietly taking care of any problems, and keep the public and especially Pinside out of it.....

For the record, I'm new and never heard this before this thread, so you can't really say that Stern tells people this, but I guess maybe they only post that on the bulletin board at the old folks home, so a young whipper snapper like me has to ask his grampa how pinball buying works. We can't exist stern to act like it's 2016 now. That would be unreasonable.

This is true that people can't be expected to know everything Stern has said in the past.

That said, assume you've preordered a game and it's not in stock. Stern still does not owe you an ETA, nor an explanation. Your distributor has your money, not Stern. If the distributor can't tell you when it'll be in stock, you always have the option of getting a refund. Whining about no communication from a MANUFACTURER is still silly.

Because you bought from a distributor, no? Then why would Stern answer you? You are not their customer. Contact your distributor with questions. Its their job. Trust me the last thing a company wants to do when experiencing delays is answer every boring question on the subject by a bunch of random people. They don't know who you are and they don't really care unless you yourself are a distributor.

Every forum on the internet is the same... You'll have to suck it up or quit.
And if you don't like reading about delays from the factory... Read another thread. Please.

Stern calls that "bulletin board" Facebook.

So umm... those manga slings are going to be friggin great.

( squawking aside, still love me some Pinside)

GB looks like a great game... But I'm hoping they are building ST with loonie and toonie coin mechs

F&#%ing Millennials.

F&#%ing Millennials! No. It's F&#%ing Californicators - People's Republic of California.

This wait is nothing compared to The Big Leibowski byDutch Pinball. Now that's a wait! And, from what I hear, well worth it.

This is my personal opinion:

I think Stern's viewpoint on how they interact with social media forms is better evidenced by their management of their own Facebook page.

Ask them a question they don't like, for any reason or no reason, you get banned (or at the very least your comment is deleted). I'm not saying they should not run their page in the manner they run it (who am I to tell them what to do) but it does show their thought process clearly. Of course they won't let their employees post here, they don't want them cornered into answering questions they can't control. That's their prerogative, but when you have an approach like that and something is not going well you will circle the wagons and avoid all discussion, which is the issue now, and that leads to mass speculation.

As for the JJP guys, per my recollection, they left all around the same time during the pre-Hobbit production period when people were questioning the company's solvency. Due to their delays it would not have really mattered what they said, people were going to question the solvency until games starting coming off the line due to the delays (I'm so happy to see TH shipping to people now, whether you like the game or not it's good people got what they paid and waited for).

I'm probably forgetting some other industry guys that have left, but generally the start up guys post here to generate excitement for their product and then leave when the tough questions get asked of them by their customers ("Kevin, do you have a license for Predator?", "JPop, what is your definition of 95% done?"...I personally think some questions should be asked and I'm not sure if asking those questions always means someone is being a "prick").

Anyway, I think you consistently have fantastic insightful viewpoints and perspectives vid, but I generally agree with TheDudeAbides on this subject.

I agree with you 100% on this point. People will even start an Internet petition... I'm still shocked the preorder model survived that fiasco in Australia.

What you're describing is passion. Not everyone is great at making a point, but believe it or not, passion is always a good thing.
Not caring is what you're hoping for, and when nobody cares the Stern factory will be used for making plastic storage containers.

A couple of random observations
I never really cared for Data East or Sega games.re:Stern

If you can't stand the heat(criticism)get out of the kitchen(pinside)and hide because your games are shipped incomplete,or years late,or not at all.This is the state of NIB pinball.

In all my years of talking discussing pinball on here or RGP,I've yet to see one post or thread pro or con that makes Stern or any other of the manufacturers change the way they do things.

All we do is rile each other up.Common denominator:We all love pinball.So chill?

JJP FB is the same

JackOfDiamonds summed up my feelings on Pinside bashing (aimed at people or pinball makers, its the same vibe).

Bashing doesn't change behavior, it just wastes space. We get it, post once, move on.

When pinsiders speak AS IF they have an insider pipeline to manufacturers (about delays, design, plans, suppliers, motivation, communication) almost always they have no idea what is going on within said manufacturer. Learn the pinsiders who make opinions sound like facts, are discount the truth of their posts or if its all lame, use the ignore feature.

When posts are numerous, negative drivel - I ignore those too. Get rid of the noise, so you can hear what real people are saying.

My suggestion for new pinsiders is to choose who you want to screen as early as possible and ignore. When a pinsider continues to poke a nerve, then remove the thorn.

Stern does change to satisfy the forums.

Everyone cried for an original theme after 15 years of licenses. Stern gave you Whoa Nelly.

Everyone cried for hand drawn art after 14 years of clip-art. Stern gave you Metallica & WNBJM.

Everyone cried for stereo sound. Stern gave you KISS

Everyone cried and cried and cried for Ghostbusters. Stern gave it to you.

Everyone cries for the largest metal band that never performed with an orchestra [Mod edit: Keep it classy]. Sterns giving you.....

Checkmate. Apart from code I don't have beef with Stern. And seems like they are going in the right direction in that department.

RGP and Pinside absolutely have changed how pinball manufacturers do things. Bally/Williams listened to RGP, feedback at Expo, and opinions from test machines. Every single company out there pays attention to customer feedback, it's how they stay alive.

Will they ignore the blind haters? Sure. They'll also ignore the blind fanboys. But the honest criticism or the honest praise, that very much gets noticed and passed along and up the chain at Stern, JJP, Spooky, Heighway, and Dutch Pinball.

LOL....I'm glad I am not the only one who hates when a band does that

They left when Keith was getting bashed for Hobbits upper right flipper.

LTG : )

Stern redid the sheild in the Prem/LE artwork for GOT, in response to the firestorm on Pinside. I never thought the original was bad, but I do like the chain mail.

So now this is a bash pinsiders thread

Once again Stern has turned the tables on us!

Apparently if you are an ice cream loving millennial with foot issues in an ELO cover band who struggles with the responsibilities between a producer vs a distributor then yes.

Where do I go to get my 20-year Pinball Troll pin?

Aren't they all eventually?

Millennials are responsible for GB2 sucking so bad...

Is this a joke? Without Jack G., and Gary Stern, there'd be zero interest in a thing we used to call pinball. Now it's getting popular and you guys are complaining that the games are taking a little bit of time to squeeze out? You complain that the art isn't to your liking? You complain about a flipper or no flipper? Well, there's an easy fix to that problem: Either manufacture your own games or don't buy Gary or Jack's. This isn't a bash pinsiders post....this is a distinctly American problem, like pinball is a distinctly American hobby.... you want to find the flaws in things instead of finding the good. Should I complain that I feel like Star Trek is a better game with an extra flipper, but I feel as if Game of Thrones is a better theme? I could, but I won't, because I'm thankful that guys like Gary and Jack continue to make this hobby viable for the years to come..... Just like everything else in this country: complain complain complain, but don't do anything about it.... and yeah, millenials are annoying, I get it, but old people are just as bad and entitlted...now buy Metallica or Star Trek, or even a RFM, and get over yourself...complaining does nothing but cause discourse for everyone. Be THANKFUL that you're not playing Monopoly and talking about how you wish someone would start manufacturing again.... be THANKFUL that this hobby isn't dead...

Even when there's money involved, there has to be passion to really want to do something. I'm in a field that requires a great deal of passion to continue because of how difficult it can be..... and I continue to move forward..... but when I want to quit the most? When I feel unappreciated. Sales dont' make up 100% of the appreciation...not hearing constant complaining is part of it too...

DEMAND over SUPPLY can be an awesome problem to have until your customers don't understand the positive impact it can have if they're just patient.

No, just buy the version of GOT with FOUR flippers!

Well....I don't like the flow on the prem.....AH! I'm not here to complain about what I have! I'm here to tell you guys that bitching or not bitching, we should be HAPPY that there's SOMETHING to buy.... good lord, we are so LUCKY, but you guys forget that.........

I like Monopoly .... its a good pin.
If one came up locally in nice shape, I'd buy it

It's got some problems but there's some good stuff going for it.

First pin I owned, BUT, it could'v ebeen the last one ever created.......... anyone wanna buy my austin powers? Just saying.

Stern is live from the factory now and it looks like quite a few games are coming off the line.

I get the human need for instant gratification. Let's be real for a second... Would you rather have a Stern production delay thread as the machines are fine tuned and bugs worked out ( Slimergate and bent pieces of steel ), or 27 threads of how my new ( insert your favorite new theme here ) pin is shit because it was slammed out the door. Imagine the hate threads that would be burning on Pinside.

Everyone has an opinion and this is my .02 after sorting through 11 pages of the same complaint. In full transparency, just opened a MMR LE and thought the construction was solid and was impressed at Stern's assembly. Couple of small items, but no big deal. Have a HBLE and GBLE on order and I'm cool waiting until the game is perfect prior to taking delivery. I don't want to be a guinea pig for ad hoc mechanical engineering work arounds and major initial code updates. Give the manufacturers a chance to build a game we would all be proud to own.