So pre-ordering for a pinball isn't bad enough now we have to have a Kickstarter for a Stern book? Is this a joke, this has to be a f*cking joke. Does Stern pay for anything with their own money?
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So pre-ordering for a pinball isn't bad enough now we have to have a Kickstarter for a Stern book? Is this a joke, this has to be a f*cking joke. Does Stern pay for anything with their own money?
Quoted from Otaku:Did you read the description? It's two guys & their company licensing the work from Stern.
Not Stern themselves, nor did it sound like Stern requested this.
I did. But don't think for a minute that Stern is getting nothing from it. They're promoting it as well. If they believe so much in the book, let them fund it with some BDKVE money.
Quoted from Grizlyrig:I'm not sure what to think of a kickstarter with big names involved. If they really need the money to get going then maybe they should take a risk and save and use their own. Isn't that how most companies and projects got started back in the day?
Mike
Thank you for articulating my thoughts better.
Quoted from Otaku:I'm sure they're getting a nice licensing percentage from it, but that still doesn't mean they own it or need to do it for free.
I'm all for them getting their licensing or royalties. What I'm not for is pre-paying for a book about a company that makes you pre-pay for a product. If Stern loves the idea of the book, which I'm sure they do. Let them fund it, use Paper Flock as the publisher and sell it. It's what the majority of book publishers do.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:I think this is a good idea??? Why would Stern do it?? That's not their expertise?? It makes more sense to contract it out and share in the profits, so they can focus on building games.
Oh I know fully why Stern would do it. I'm not opposed to the book at all. It's prob going to be really cool. What I'm not for is using Kickstarter to fund the book. I'm prob just looking at it the wrong way. I dunno.
Quoted from master_of_chaos:They call it the official 30th anniversary Stern Pinball coffee table book.
So for my understandig if its "official" its something that Stern is involed.
An excellent point.
Quoted from jrockne:I'll wait for the Super LE edition... Too soon?
Kickstarter's, gofundme's, etc. have gotten out of control!
From someone that's using Kickstarter to crowdfund a project, because that's my only legitimate option...I might be extra sensitive to this. If my Kickstarter fails, my project fails, and I'm personally out 5 figures, or a BDKVESLE, if you will.
Quoted from lordloss:Were you the one doing the socks the cat kickstarter? How is this different from stern asking for money? You're doing the same if. If you sold it so someone else, please disregard this comment.
Yes that's me. My Kickstarter is still active.
How is it different? I paid for the game, the artist, the programmer, the legal fees, the trademark fees and who knows what costs I've forgotten out of my own pocket to get the game ready for manufacturing. That cost me into the 5 figures. Oh and I'm also not rich by any stretch. Besides my home it's the single biggest investment I've made.
I targeted a product I believed in and fronted the money to get it ready. I could have launched a Kickstarter when I acquired the game 4 years ago and used other people's monies to get the game ready for production. I didn't, I took the risk myself and did it how I felt was the right way. So yeah when I see a company like Stern with deep pockets married to a Kickstarter I find it insulting.
Quoted from paul_8788:Why is this important? They aren't asking you for 50k. Think you might want the book, pledge $55.00 (not a high amount for an book like this). If enough people do, you get the book. Not interested, don't pledge.
Sometimes it is about gauging market interest, not just raising money. My guess is Stern thought a 30th anniversary book would be cool, but had no interest in spending their time and money arranging one, publishing, selling and shipping it. They are a pinball company, not a book company. If a Kickstarter like this is the only way it would get made, as it costs Stern nothing but some time arranging materials and interviews, then I don't see the harm personally.
Yeah def agreed on the demand piece. And I see your point on the other stuff. I just don't agree, and that's okay.
Appreciate the post Joseph and I wish you luck on your Kickstarter. I know from personal experience they are a LOT of work. I whole-heartedly agree that KS gives you a much better line of communication with the fans. I applaud you for recognizing that.
I still think that Stern is completely disconnected with its fan base and after the BM66' cash grab, expo party and shunning of pinballnews, the timing on this is off. I think you'll hit your goal regardless but I hope you understand why people would choose not to back this.
I do think the pricing is fair for the most part. Don't see any price gouging here. Thank you again for explaining the details.
Quoted from tacshose:With the Trudeau stuff this book is probably dead, they should just blame that and refund everyone. This is what happens when you delay and delay, different shit just keeps hitting the fan. If they would have been responsible stewards of everyone's money it would have been done on time. I mean WTF was the point of the delays, you could have shipped a crap book, it didn't matter, the expenses were already paid.
The delays proved the lie. All the "maybe we will sell it after kickstarter, or maybe we won't" was total BS to try and sucker people.
Stern and Paperflock wanted $50k to try and fund a possibly successful commercial endeavor for Stern's benefit. Stern as usual shifted all the risk onto their customers and will hang Paperflock out to dry when this thing never gets published.
Refunds will not happen. The risk is solely on the backers.
Quoted from j_m_:even if the book doesn't ship? hell, if that's the case I need to start multiple kickstarters now!
promise the world, deliver nothing and not be held accountable for anything? I can't understand how that would be legal
Correct. Think of it as gambling.
Quoted from hool10:Because you folks instantly started attacking Paper Flock because the theory was Stern should have backed this. Stern doesn't care if this book gets made or not but it's odd that their name is on it and they have not said anything about it. Most people on here are oblivious as to how a normal Kickstarter works and they only read about the horror stories. It's the typical Pinside mentality though and just brutally shut down the project before it gets off the ground because it wasn't like a previous pinball publication. To be fair to Joe and his partner have been responsive when I e-mailed them. Usually an update came out after.
No, no, no. I've run a Kickstarter...and I started this thread. No they shouldn't have done a Stern book with Kickstarter. It shows how grossly out of touch the publisher and Stern are with the fan base. Stern had marketing materials promoting this so they are involved. Period.
To put anything on Pinside is horseshit. Either you give timely updates or you don't. Regardless of what people are saying on Pinside.
Overdue with no update in two months. Unacceptable.
Quoted from pindude80:sounds a lot like Stern's super-informative and famous "stay tuned"
Stern is committed to book updates.
Quoted from frolic:I think everyone understands things on Kickstarter don't go as planned. The problem with this particular project is the radio silence. Never a good way to handle things and never excusable.
That's exactly right. I ran a successful Kickstarter last year for an unreleased video game. It closed less than a year ago and we have had 20 something updates.
Sadly, my friend/publisher lost him mom unexpectedly during the process. We had an estimated delivery of July and quite honestly he had to step away from the project to regroup. We let our backers know and they get it. Since the delay I think we've put on average an update a week. Our backers are understanding and have even asked us to further delay so we can put a dedication to his mom in the game.
You have to communicate. It's not optional. It's a must.
Quoted from Pinballlew:The full text has been sent to the good folks at Stern to look over and give notes. As you can imagine they have been a bit busy leading up to Expo though.
Doing what exactly?
Quoted from MrBally:Building and shipping over 200 machines a week. Plus part & accessory sales. Also working on their next three game designs.
Yeah at the expense of their last 3 game designs...
Quoted from GotAQuestion:Again, welcome to every Kickstarter.
No, no, no, fucking no. I’ve run a Kickstarter. We are 6 months behind and finally shipping this month. Our KS closed in November of 16’. We just posted update #26. Do the math. In the same timeframe Paperflock has posted 4 updates. That is complete BS. It took me all of 1 KS to realize you have to keep your backers in the know. How many have Paperflock done? It is not rocket science.
And go and add me to your downvote rampage. These people have a right to be upset
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