(Topic ID: 171152)

Stern coffee table book Kickstarter?!?


By MinusWorlds

3 years ago



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    Topic index (key posts)

    19 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #2 Link to Kickstarter project. Posted by ForceFlow (3 years ago)

    Post #74 Feedback on Stern editorial control. Posted by JoeDP (3 years ago)

    Post #109 Talk about editorial choices. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #120 Confirmation that Batman 66 will be in the book. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #123 Poster(s) shipping arrangements clarified. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #130 Project update announced. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #785 December update from publisher - and promise of further updates Posted by Matesamo (1 year ago)

    Post #913 JoeDP says copy for book has been approved Posted by JoeDP (1 year ago)

    Post #1005 Update from Kickstarter page on book project Posted by KLR2014 (1 year ago)

    Post #1337 Well written complaint to Stern. Posted by j_m_ (9 months ago)

    Post #1482 March 12 backer update Posted by cooked71 (7 months ago)


    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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    #122 2 years ago

    I'm a backer (and at the $200 level). jeremy's [zombie yeti] prints go for $100 when he offers them, so I figured that was a good value for all that was included.

    I will echo the thoughts of others that it would be nice for the 30 year stern poster to be rolled and not folded if possible since most of us would like to matte and frame it. maybe offer an option to ship the poster rolled for the pro level backers and automatically do it that way for the level with the zombie yeti print.

    looking forward to seeing how well the finish product comes out

    ps
    are the numbered prints based on your backer no.? if so, that would be great since I actually wanted no. 13/100

    #129 2 years ago
    Quoted from master_of_chaos:

    I considered to spend 125$ in this project, but someone decided to limit this for only 30 supporters. I believe100 would have been the better choice.

    damnit! I didn't even notice that the $200 level didn't have the autographs. I guess I picked the wrong one since the $125 books were still available when I made my pledge. you should get them to sign the $200 level dust jackets as well!

    #150 2 years ago

    I didn't hear about this kickstarter until 2 days ago. I think that because expo was going on (and even though there were flyers on the table about this @ expo), it just didn't click

    compounded with the fact that the thread fell off of the 1st page here on pinside (like many things do) when there are a lot of hot topics, I'm guessing that many other people were/are in the same boat

    4 weeks later
    #183 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Do you think this will fund? Guess we won't reach the cutaway pages goal...bummed about that.

    I was hoping that it reached that goal as well. a nice fold out with transparent layers would have been a really nice touch to the book

    1 week later
    #193 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    They probably have it arranged that Stern will kick in the balance....

    they would be foolish not to. it's basically a win-win for them
    1) the book gets published and more people get informed on pinball
    2) stern can just sell those books (the difference needed to fund the kickstarter) on their website

    #195 2 years ago

    fingers crossed that if stern kicks in, they kick in an additional 25K as well so that we all get that sweet transparent layers section

    #200 2 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    So you folks think that Stern should put $15k-$50k into a book projec... *You know why Stern will not fund this? Because they make Pinball machines not books and Paperflock came up with this idea and it's solely their book.

    actually, I think that a couple of us stated that it would be cool if stern did this, not that they should

    as to your comment about why you think stern should not do this, why do they sell mugs, cups, ball caps, t-shirts and posters on their web store? those definitely aren't pinball machines either!

    for that matter why does any company sell other merchandise other than their main product?
    hey nintendo! you make video games, why do you sell books about your games?!?

    hey ford! you make automobiles, why do you sell ford logo emblazoned apparel, and house hold items?!?

    hey microsoft! you make software, why are you making and selling computers now?!?

    hey amazon! you just used to sell just books. what the heck is with the fact that you sell just about everything now!?!?

    1 week later
    #380 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    you see it one way. I am entitled to see it another.

    yes, you're entitled to your opinion, but you don't need to repeatedly come into this thread and bash what joe is attempting to do here. simply state your opinion once and then leave.

    I don't go into threads that you've started and every day post another "you're an asshat!" comment. why?
    well...
    for one thing, it's childish
    for another, it serves no purpose other than to draw attention to yourself and let everyone see just how narcissistic you can be. the end result is that you're going to come off looking like the asshat that you've made yourself out to be.

    we've met face to face multiple times and you're a good guy, however in this case you're just not doing yourself any favors

    3 weeks later
    #403 2 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Shame we won't get a layer by layer sheets in the book showing off how this thing was created. Look that thing. It's gotta be one of the most sophisticated pinball mechs ever made. Photo is from the website "Fun With Bonus".

    maybe gary and the boys will feel generous and pony up the money to include the layered sheets. it's a pipe dream I know, but one can dream

    #414 2 years ago

    I still haven't received my cardboard xmas ornament

    2 weeks later
    #421 2 years ago

    hey joe, I never received my xmas ornament. were those mailed out to everyone?

    1 month later
    #439 2 years ago

    I loved the nixie tube displays in the bat computer for the match sequence

    I found the catwoman ramp and the right orbit (ball lock) both a bear to hit for some reason, but had no problems hitting any other shot

    2 months later
    11
    #461 2 years ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    I know it's been a while again, new post coming very soon!
    We are waiting on the answer to a few questions, but as soon as we get them we will have a big new post!

    apparently, joe's idea of very soon and mine are very different

    1 week later
    #488 2 years ago

    that's a really nice daily affirmation mr. smalley

    I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. and dog gone it, people like me

    #514 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    They did this crowd funding on the backs of the pinball community, then it came to light they did not even have all the needed players lined up after they got funds, and now they are working on 2x the production schedule and by the sounds of it have almost nothing done.

    I see this as no different than the 30th anniversary party that stern threw last year @ expo using the cash paid by customers to access the party. that party was further made even more awesome by the contributions by the patrons at the "cash" bar for food and drinks

    #533 2 years ago

    I'm a supporter at one of the higher levels and given my background, I don't have any worries.

    a good writer can easily knock out the framework for a book in a matter of hours and start to have it fleshed out in a couple of days. I used to author video game strategy guides for prima and brady and in some cases we were given less than a week to have the all of the text for the book submitted.

    layout can be another story, but again if you have someone that is good at their job and has a clear "vision" of what they want, most if not all of the pieces of the puzzle tend to fall in place

    I think that joe's only shortcoming is lack of information in a timely manner. anyone who's visited this forum knows how fickle we can be as a group and how quickly support can wane

    #545 2 years ago

    I heard that joe is still finalizing the book binding so that it falls apart after a few reads to replicate the current cabinet issues

    I'm joking of course. given that the last 3 kickstarters that I've participated in have run a bit late, this one doesn't surprize me in the least bit.

    1 month later
    #558 2 years ago

    has anyone done anything about claiming fraud with their credit card companies for this project? like another kickstarter project, this is the 2nd of 3 where the item has not been delivered on time, nor have their been any updates here, on kickstarter or the paperflock.com website of forum in quite some time

    in fact, joe has not logged into to kickstarter.com since june 6th, posted to his own forum since january 20th or logged on here on pinside since may 14th. I'm seeing a pattern emerging and plan to file a fraud case with my credit card company if I do not receive an acceptable reply by the end of the week from joe

    #563 2 years ago

    from section 4, terms of service

    When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

    Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

    If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

    - they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
    - they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
    - they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
    - they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
    - they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
    The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

    now, you tell me if joe has managed to successfully accomplish any of the above bullet points. also, notice the one that I've bolded

    #564 2 years ago

    here, I'll help you out:

    - they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned; nope
    - they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers; hell no. we were promised a sizeable update back in june which never materialized and that was the last communication
    - they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised; god only knows what he's using the funds for since there have been NO updates
    - they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and what communication?!?
    - they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

    #570 2 years ago
    Quoted from puck:

    Did Joe get back to you?

    nope. no reply

    1 week later
    #584 2 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    So it's 3 months late and 50% done.

    so that means 6 more weeks of winter next year? and that the book might be completed in another 5 months? love the post-it note where they can't even spell mr. takei's name correctly (george tiaki)

    edit:
    I love how my avatar represents actually how I feel about this

    1 month later
    #597 2 years ago

    even if the book doesn't ship? hell, if that's the case I need to start multiple kickstarters now!

    promise the world, deliver nothing and not be held accountable for anything? I can't understand how that would be legal

    3 weeks later
    #654 2 years ago

    I just posted another comment on kickstarter. personally, I think that all supporters attending the chicago pinball expo should attend the stern fireside chat on thursday, oct 12th at 6pm and voice their displeasure.

    stern obviously partnered with paperflock given the signage being promoted at last year's expo, the stern party and during the factory tour and should be held just as accountable as paperflock

    1 month later
    #722 1 year ago

    anyone want to start placing bets on whether this project sees completion before it's 2 year anniversary?

    #728 1 year ago
    Quoted from Billy16:

    Joe only kept a close eye on this thread when he was soliciting our money.

    absolutely 100% correct and the proof is here:
    joe dp (resized).jpg

    Pinsider since February 22nd, 2016 (Last seen May 14th, 2017)

    I also believe that he or the [rest? of paperflock?] did not attend the chicago expo this year. if they did, they made no mention, nor were they present at the stern lecture (and given that there was plenty of stern signage posted at the 2016 expo promoting the book, it would have been the perfect time to step up and speak up about the state of the book

    1 week later
    #754 1 year ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    the-princess-bride-princess-bride-quotes (resized).jpg

    #762 1 year ago

    I never even received the paper xmas ornament

    #768 1 year ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    I'm certain all is well. The publisher is busy finishing the design of the gel layers that show the anatomy of a pinball machine.

    ??

    I didn't think that the kickstarter campaign made it to the level to include that. if they did, and they are actually working on that, I will be pleased

    13
    #780 1 year ago

    it still doesn't pardon the fact that joe went "silent" here on pinside back in may and has been sh*t silent for updates on all fronts (pinside, the kickstarter site and the paperflock site).

    there's really no excuse for it, and he's got a lot of explaining to do to even begin to start attempting to earn any respect (let alone confidence) back

    #793 1 year ago

    cosmicjim:
    maybe, however if they had completed the book "on time", the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have happened yet and would be a non-issue
    they are already a year late on its delivery, so I'm sorry but they don't deserve any sympathy whatsoever in my book

    #795 1 year ago

    well, not exactly a year but it was supposed by complete by the summer. so 6 months overdue with no real date still in sight
    my guess is by the time it goes to print and gets into the hands of the backers, it will be over a year overdue

    #813 1 year ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    It's not even that. People are just pissed that he came in here to ask for money. If you had a question, it was answered. THEN after he got the money, he doesn't come back HERE and give a quick update.

    let's correct this a bit:
    after he got the money, he left pinside and:
    - hasn't posted anything to his own website forums since january 20, 2017 (paperflock.com)
    - hasn't been seen here on pinside.com since may 14, 2017
    - has only post a total of 4 updates on kickstarter since achieving the goal of $50K (june 06, aug 01, oct 13 and dec 08)

    the only positive thing that I can say at this point is that it's a good thing that joe isn't authoring this thing:
    here's just a sample of his less than stellar writing skills: We have hired Amanda Hudgins to edit the book! She is an amazing editor who has worked with Zack, our writer, before!

    ps
    this came from the oct 13th update (meaning that in addition to not having an author for the book, they also didn't even have an editor lined up until 6 months after the campaign ended

    #827 1 year ago

    the sad part about kickstarter is that there is no legal recourse for the backers when a project is successfully funded and the project owner does not come through.
    it makes me think that kickstarter should hold a portion of the funds in escrow so that if the project never comes to fruition at least a portion of the funds go back to the backers

    maybe it's the part of me that has never taken money for something that is not complete and ready to ship (if you don't have the funds to back your own projects, then maybe you shouldn't be getting into it in the first place)

    I'm no millionaire (heck, far from it), but I've been able to bring quite a few $5-digit projects to market on my own dime. I think that using your own money not only gives you a sense of pride, but also drives you to getting the project completed. when you're using someone else's funds, that incentive simply isn't there and you don't feel any pressure to [getting it done]

    1 month later
    #847 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    This was a dream of ours! Unfortunately we are pretty sure it is cost prohibitive at the purchasing capacity we have with current orders.
    We will look a little deeper into it, but we know it is very pricey.

    given that you're likely to end up being 2 years late to actually getting the book into the backers' hands than originally promised, it would be a nice "we're sorry and thank you" for everyone that felt like they got screwed with the lack of updates for the past year

    btw, what ever happened to releasing photos of the zombie yeti poster and the dickie's jacket for the super backers? I'd like to think that jeremy packer completed the artwork for the poster long ago for the original slated delivery date

    #869 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    I don't want to make a bunch of excuses, but telling a compelling story that covers 30 years and involves so many people is a huge task.
    And the complications with I'll say political issues only made it harder.
    So I deeply apologize for the delay, we are trying to make the best product possible for posterity, and trust me, Dameon and I did not plan to dedicate this much of our lives to this project, so we would love to have been able to deliver the book on time, it just wasn't in the cards this time.

    joe, sorry to be a "debbie downer" again, but to be honest some of your comments are just head scratchers. I don't understand how you can act as if you and dameon are the ones telling this compelling story when neither of you are even writing the darn thing. I think that's one of things of this kickstarter (besides the lack of comments and the slipped dates and the multiple revisions that are just now happening) that truly blow my mind and had I known that from the start, I wouldn't have jumped in

    I now see how kickstarter is the only option where this could possibly work

    imagine if I were to go to victor ireland, who at one point in time was president of working designs and say "hey vic, I want to write a book chronicling your company and all of the great and crazy things that you did while there". during the first meeting, when asked even the most basic of questions, I would somehow have to explain to him that I wasn't writing the book, I wasn't editing the book or even publishing the book

    I wonder how fast I would be laughed out of the meeting?

    [edit]
    and while I understand there are "certain" things that you may not be able to discuss, you still haven't really given anyone even a "veiled" explanation why this book is so far behind schedule. had it met its original projected date, the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have even been an issue

    1 month later
    #887 1 year ago

    I know that it's only been 32 days, but given joe's track record I would have hoped that he would have at least hit his "I'll post at least once a month" for the first month after

    #890 1 year ago

    since I paid by credit card, I've submitted a claim. I've also pm'ed joe (but big surprise, no reply

    1 week later
    10
    #901 1 year ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    The FUCK is going on with this thing? I feel like someone stole my money........

    they did. this is exactly why I filed a claim with my credit card company. I really don't have any hard feeling that the money will be taken from kickstarter.com
    they can then go after joe and co. I feel that they should change their business model to hold these start-ups somewhat accountable

    and before someone on the high horse chimes in again about how I wasn't paying for a product, but supporting an idea, they can go pound sand. creating a book (as someone else stated, "not a new technology") when you have all of the resources laid out in front of you should be an incredibly easy task for anyone with any business sense

    joe has broken his promise numerous times now. anyone that gives him a pass has no one to blame but themselves. the adage "fool me once shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me" comes to mind and I won't be fooled a second time by this charlatan

    2 months later
    #959 1 year ago

    I just want a refund at this point. had I known the sh*tshow that this was going to turn into for something as simple as a book, I would have been better off buying a round for the patrons at the local tavern

    at least that way I would have seen what I spent my money on

    #968 1 year ago

    facebook update today, but I noticed that joe has been avoiding pinside altogether (again)

    4 weeks later
    #981 1 year ago

    on this week in pinball, it was announced that todd tuckey is releasing not 1, but 10 pinball books, each 200+ pages.
    https://www.pinballbuzz.com/product-category/regular-pinball-adventures/

    anyone want to bet how many of this 10 book series make it to market before the stern kickstarter does? the first volume is due out in sep, the 2nd in dec

    #994 1 year ago

    hey, it's been 29 days. I'll bet joe will be popping in today with an update

    nope, no sarcasm here

    1 week later
    #1001 1 year ago

    thanks hool10

    wtf is joe providing these promised monthly updates?!?

    1 week later
    #1027 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    They should get started on the "deeproot 30th anniversary" book today.

    I'm sure that joe will be back in 30 days to announce it (along with a 50th year anniversary book for Jersey Jack and Spooky

    #1029 1 year ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    This thread is still running

    yes, the general consensus is that we've accomplished more here than paperflock has (and that's not saying much

    #1032 1 year ago

    maybe I should start a kickstarter to fund tracking down joe and the rest of the paperflock team so that we can bring them to expo this year for a public flogging

    #1034 1 year ago

    I tried to numerous times, but haven't been successful

    #1036 1 year ago

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "had I known the sh!tsh*w that this would become, my $300+ (yep, I was dumb enough to sign in for one of those top tiers) would have been better off buying complete strangers a round at the local bar"

    given stern's involvement in this, I believe that they should be held accountable as well to some degree

    #1041 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I drink Bourbon, but I would be hard pressed on a good night to do more than 3 $20 pours. See you at the next show, you can buy the first round

    I believe that it's you that probably owes me a drink or two mister

    #1044 1 year ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Time for a lawsuit....

    unfortunately, due to the way that kickstarter is set up there is no legal option against paperflock through kickstarter itself
    and as we all know with a lawsuit, the only people who make money are the lawyers. we'd be lucky to come away with a slice of pizza each after the legal fees are paid

    I still like the idea of kidnapping joe and bringing him to expo to face a jury of his peers for his [lack of] actions

    1 week later
    #1047 1 year ago

    64 days now since an update. so much for even bi-monthly updates, eh?

    3 weeks later
    #1077 1 year ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    My coffee table is still waiting............

    yes, a new thread. sort of like silicon valley but instead of "this is a location where your box could go", we can do, "this is a coffee table where your pinball book could go"

    11
    #1085 1 year ago

    I got to put in the very first comment. I'm not sure that they'll approve, but it made me feel better

    2018-08-17 16_49_13-Keeping the Ball Alive_ 30 Years of Stern Pinball by PaperFlock Inc — Kickstarte (resized).png

    1 month later
    #1131 1 year ago

    step away from the kool-aid punchbowl backyardace

    unless joe is planning on attending expo with thousands of dollars to refund backers, I think that he might be wise to avoid the show

    10
    #1136 1 year ago

    posted this to the kickstarter page today:

    kickstarter post (resized).jpg

    to any other backers planning on attending the chicago pinball expo next month, I say we meet @ twin peaks thursday evening around 6pm and commiserate over a few cold ones (or smoke cigars and all pretend that we're like ted who has now put out 3 books in a year's less time

    #1144 1 year ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    It's not there. Did he have it taken down or does it take awhile for the post to show?
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paperflock/keeping-the-ball-alive-30-years-of-stern-pinball/comments

    he removed it (or stern did). based on how everyone was getting their comments removed on facebook, it wouldn't surprise me either way

    edit:
    actually my last 2 comments are under their last update
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paperflock/keeping-the-ball-alive-30-years-of-stern-pinball/posts/2265553

    #1147 1 year ago

    I would have loved to attend stern's seminar @ expo and raise my concerns, however I just noticed that their time slot is 8pm on saturday which is pretty much after everyone, including myself will have had their fill and left the show

    my guess is that george won't have that much to say otherwise they would vied for an earlier spot during the show (I could have sworn that in the past, stern and jjp both have always had their time slots on thursday

    #1149 1 year ago

    it will have been 2 years ago @ expo (right before the kickstarter ended). they not only promoted it at the hotel (w/ banners) but there was also a lot of signage @ the stern party and I believe that both gary and george were pushing it during their speeches

    but I think that you're right tigerlaw, it kind of has that feeling that stern was getting a kickback of some sort for the promoting of it

    #1171 1 year ago

    I think that he meant 2119. seven years after we've been all part of the solar federation and then subsequently freed from their tyranny in the year 2112

    #1175 1 year ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    At this point I’d take an unfinished book and use my imagination on the missing bits.

    don't give joe any ideas. at this point, I have the feeling that he's going to deliver a blank notepad and a box of crayons and tell everyone its a "choose your own adventure/make your own pinball" book

    1 week later
    #1192 1 year ago
    Quoted from toddtuckey:

    I got my copy today! (Yes, I had to wait too!)
    [quoted image]

    hey! wait a second, that's not the paperflock coffee table book

    oh that's right todd, this is the first of the 10 volumes that you'll probably have complete and printed before paperflock gets their sh*t together

    1 week later
    #1200 12 months ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Anybody ask Stern about this book at expo?

    I left saturday morning and stern's seminar wasn't under 8pm saturday night and I never saw george walking around to ask him

    #1212 12 months ago

    I never even received the crappy paper xmas ornament. now I feel really cheated

    #1217 11 months ago

    did anyone stay for expo saturday evening, attend stern's seminar and ask about the status of the book? I'd be curious to know if they had anything to say (apologize, make excuses, shrug it off, etc...

    2 weeks later
    #1222 11 months ago

    will the lease on my new vehicle (which is a 3-year lease) be up before I receive this book? my magic 8 ball keeps giving me 'most likely' and 'as I see it, yes'

    #1224 11 months ago

    well, I answer the part of whether or not you'll ever see your money. that answer is "no"

    the way kickstarter works, I can start a project and explain that if I reach of a goal of $10,000, I'll build this widget that will solve hunger, cancer and create world peace

    if I don't raise that $10K, everyone that donated gets their money back. however, if that goal is met, the money is transferred from kickstarter to me and everyone is f*ck all screwed. I don't have to make the widget. I can just walk away and you have no legal recourse. their business model is flawed since the [starter] doesn't have any legal responsibility to follow through

    2 weeks later
    #1236 10 months ago

    anyone have joe's cell no.?

    I'll gladly phone him and let him know that we've had enough, issue the refunds and no harm will come to his shrubberies

    #1238 10 months ago

    from the kickstarter web site:
    4. How Projects Work
    Most of our Terms of Use explain your relationship with Kickstarter. This section is different — it explains the relationship between creators and backers of Kickstarter projects, and who’s responsible for what. This is what you’re agreeing to when you create or back a Kickstarter project.

    Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.

    Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:

    When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

    Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

    If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

    they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
    they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
    they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
    they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
    they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
    The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

    #1241 10 months ago

    it's a shame that no lawyers were backers on this project and want to make an example out of paperflock

    any lawyers out there feel like doing a pro bono case for the holidays to set things right for the us backers?

    #1243 10 months ago

    posted this in the comments this morning, let's see how many other backers follow suit

    Keeping the Ball Alive_ 30 Years of Stern Pinball by PaperFlock Inc (resized).jpg

    #1255 10 months ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    He deserves all the mockery at this point. All he had to do was make good on his promise to keep communicating, and he can't even carve out 10 minutes a week month quarter to post something for you all.
    Loser.

    there. I corrected that for you (even though, I had to edit my edit

    #1257 10 months ago

    kickstarter joe (resized).jpg

    ps
    was she one of the "stretch goals" that we backers unwittingly provided?

    #1268 10 months ago
    Quoted from Max_Badazz:

    This just popped up in KS:
    Hello Kickstarter Backers,
    I know you guys are waiting for an update. I'm sorry we have been quiet this month, but I promise we have been making progress!
    This is just a micro-update to let you know that we will be posting a bigger update on Monday!
    Thanks for your patience, Joe and Dameon, and the Paperflock Team

    why didn't you post my comment?

    #1276 10 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I liked it so much I bought 2 of them...have one not even opened *RARE* (I know your jealous j_m_
    [quoted image]

    yeah, that's it. just rub it in that I didn't even get my $325 cardboard xmas ornament

    12
    #1291 10 months ago

    I was going to comment on kickstarter, but I really don't see the point. if he considers taking 30 elements!!! from the stern asset discs (as he's joyfully stated) and slapping them on a spread, this man doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing. some one the age of 8 could have done this (and probably have done a better job

    there was no thought involved whatsoever in taking a bunch of stock images and just resizing them so that fit on a 2-page layout

    but wait! the layout guy did overlay 2 of the elements over an image of the playfield. I'll bet that took him a week to do

    seriously, the one guy that did comment on this update said "looks great, I can't wait!"

    and as for his comment of "I know that we are making the best pinball book that we've ever seen", he might as well as stated "the best book that he's ever seen" because it's obvious he's never looked at any books (even comic books, which have much better layouts

    1 week later
    #1317 10 months ago

    and actually followed through on his projects

    #1320 10 months ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    If it does get funded, people will lose their money when the person goes on vacation and buys a new car.
    Don't be hornswoggled, unless the money does not matter to an individual.
    This is not a "good deal".

    damn! who knew that the theBlackKnight would call this one correctly 2 years ago

    happy 3rd xmas to all of us that got screwed

    2 weeks later
    14
    #1337 9 months ago

    looking at the kickstarter page, there were only 7 updates in 2017 and actually 10 this year
    however, the content of those updates has definitely been lacking (especially since joe posted that the book copy had been approved back in march)

    to get some semblance of closure as 2018 comes to a close, I submitted this email to Stern Pinball this morning:

    "So, what's the deal with the KICKSTARTER book? Stern took an active stance 2 years ago promoting this [official] coffee table book celebrating 30 years of Stern's pinball history with flyers and huge banners at the 2016 pinball expo in Chicago and their own party (that I purchased a ticket to attend).

    Now, over 18 months past expected delivery date, we backers still have no tentative release time line or even a sense of urgency on the part of Stern/Paperflock to complete this project and reward its backers.

    With May 2019 approaching, the book will celebrate it's 2 year anniversary at being overdue and not only has Paperflock been lax in keeping their backers updated, but Stern Pinball itself appears to have distanced themselves from the project since there's no mention of it anywhere on the official sternpinball.com website.

    As the company that partnered and promoted this project, I can't help but feel like I've been lied to and cheated out of my hard earned money and I think that some of the blame should fall on you (as a named partner) for not following through to ensure the completion of the project."

    I guess the only thing that could be worse is if the book finally does make it to press and they use all of the history info found on stern's own website
    https://sternpinball.com/about/

    1 week later
    #1362 9 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Any response from Stern?

    nope, nothing (as expected

    Quoted from hool10:

    As far as I am aware they are (were) pinball fans and came to Stern for support.

    pinball fan? (meaning that he once had a friend's cousin's sister's roommate's brother see a stern pinball machine in a pop-up ad on their browser

    1 week later
    #1371 9 months ago

    if I do "proper" math, with joe's new estimate of 1,500 hrs is equivalent to another 9 months before this sh*t will be completed (at the earliest

    and remember kids, this doesn't include layout time, writing time, vacation time, photographing time, travel time, more vacation time, negotiating time, other time, and even more vacation time

    I really wish that more backers (other than myself) would start posting their displeasure on how this project has failed on some many fronts

    #1373 9 months ago

    these guys are total knobs. given that stern issued promotional flyers for EVERY game produced, this means that studio quality photos already exist and stern probably doesn't feel like troubling themselves to go through their own archives and find them

    I'm going to start a kickstarter for a 38th [unofficial] anniversary of stern games but provide colored drawings of the machines as interpreted by K-3 school kids. I'll bet that I still get my book out before joe and it will be at least 100% better too!

    ted, will you be my editor?

    #1378 9 months ago

    the best part will be all those photos of these routed games with broken plastics, blown out playfields and cabinet graffiti

    #1391 9 months ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    Oh and just to rub salt on the wounds it looks like I had “upped” my pledge. Where’s my fucking jacket?[quoted image]

    lol. apparently, you're as big of an idiot as I am (good to know that I wasn't the only fool to be taken in for that much

    joe has been probably scouring all of the local thrift stores to try and find enough dickies (meaning rebranded circa 1982 members only) jackets for all of us $325 donors errm.. suckers to apply iron-on transfers onto (or more likely, the jackets will come packages as a DIY kit with a jacket and iron-on transfer with the caveat that they are not responsible for any damage done to said "nylon" jacket with a hot iron

    btw, when/if the final book is delivered, can we claim fraud when the books don't feature trudeau's hand-signed autograph?? I mean, that was a selling point of the LE book and might have been the only reason that I donated at that level at the time

    #1409 9 months ago

    a friend of mine was in illinois this week and took a tour at the stern facility. I asked him to ask about the book and he was told "I can assure you it's still being worked on", but that was really it

    from my point of view, it doesn't really sound like stern has been doing anything to drive this project to completion

    #1413 9 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Your friend, 'By whom?'
    Stern representative, 'Top men.'[quoted image]

    he was told by zach sharpe, the person that gave him the tour

    1 month later
    #1458 8 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Does anyone want to purchase one of my preorder spots? Comes complete with an unopened Christmas ornament!

    that all depends, are you [paying] people to take the spot (and the anguish that goes with it?

    1 week later
    #1473 7 months ago

    what exactly can we do as backers? it's quite obvious that joe isn't putting together a book and ran off with our money. any lawyers want to take up a class action lawsuit pro bono?

    paging @pinlawyer

    1 month later
    #1497 6 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Intern....
    [quoted image]

    so... that's where our money's been going. joe's a member of a "rent a date" club and we've been paying for it

    1 week later
    13
    #1511 5 months ago

    found this little gem and posted it in the comments section today. I would advise all backers to do the same
    kickstarter rights (resized).jpg

    #1516 5 months ago

    but it's garbage like this that really makes me want to create a "south park" type kickstarter

    you know, the kind where you can donate all kinds of money and I'll promise absolutely nothing in return. the more money that you donate, the less that I'll promise to do (although considering that I'm not planning on doing anything in the first place, I'm not exactly sure how that would be possible

    I thinking about something like this:

    theendallfukitall non-event

    donate $1
    (because you have have an extra $1 in your paypal or google account and are too lazy to figure what to do with it otherwise)

    reward: absolutely nothing. not even a thank you!

    donate $10
    reward: one update where you aren't even specifically mentioned about all of the non-progress that I've made
    (this update may or may not occur sometime between 1 month and 156 months after the kickstarter has successfully met its goal

    donate $25
    reward: one update where I thank all of the people that donated $25 or more
    (but not by name because that would require more than basic effort on my part

    donate $50 or more
    reward: two updates, but one may just be random characters repeated if I happen to fall asleep at the keyboard

    bonus item for all donators
    a link to a previously posted pinside thread with an oversaturated image of joe, the non-creator of infamous 30 years of stern pinball book (that never happened
    image may or may not include some random tart joe was trying to impress at the time

    13
    #1563 5 months ago

    this is the comment that I posted to kickstarter today:

    joe and co.
    here's the problem as well as the facts (and yes, I'm one of those whiney naysayers):
    - the book is now 2 years overdue
    - not once have you apologized for the repeated delays or taken ownership of your shortcomings and lack of planning on this project
    - you waited until well after the project was fully funded before even putting together a basic layout and hiring an editor. these are things that should have been thought out well ahead of even offering the book as a kickstarter funded project
    - you failed to uphold your promise to deliver monthly updates

    it's hard to get excited about the updates because they don't really give us any sense of real progress being made, just more boilerplate rhetoric to appease your backers and bide yourself a bit more time.

    from my perspective, the delays might have been a bit easier to swallow if you were someone that appeared to be actually passionate about the hobby and this project. unfortunately, you don't seem to be that person. if you were, you wouldn't have joined pinside.com, one of the largest pinball forum communities simply to try and garner sales, promise frequent updates and then completely vanish
    fact: you joined pinside and posted right after you launched the kickstarter project on oct 18, 2016 and then disappeared after may 21, 2018 (with a mere 6 posts after promising monthly updates 16 months prior)

    with all that being said, I really don't expect what is finally produced (if it ever reaches completion) will be anything than mediocre as best

    just my 2 cents as someone that *is* passionate about the hobby

    #1573 5 months ago

    does this mean that once this joke is finally unleashed upon the public, we backers can then demand a refund?

    #1603 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    All the people saying it's "never going to happen they just stole our money", they're quiet now. That's a good thing.

    or we're just fed up to the point where we've given up wasting our breath. tell you what ron, give me $325 and you have have my book and rewards

    1 week later
    #1616 4 months ago

    these guys are only 2 months late
    withphysical progress vs. 2 years late w/ a 5 minute format change

    plus, they apologized for being late. it took 2 years and my post to get joe to admit to that. on the negative side, it appears that AJ is actually going to be late by a minimum of 9 months (9 min mark on their video)

    #1618 4 months ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Yeah true but you can likely meet him (I have) at a game show and he does panels, streams, etc. Paperflock nobody knows them and the size of the project is relatively small. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if Paperflock is actually losing money on this project.

    they can't really lose any money if they never produce the product. given that they raised over $50K to produce less than 500 books, I think that they would really have to piss away a good deal to not have enough funds to produce the actual book

    vireland or jonathan can confirm this

    3 weeks later
    #1638 4 months ago

    agreed. at this point, I think that a [small] step in the right direction would be to remove some of the clutter and put in the acetate fold-out pages that show the different components of the machines (empty cabinet [solid sheet of paper] and then transparent pages for hardware in cabinet bottom, empty playfield and populated playfield layers (ramps, posts, spinners, drop target assemblies each as a layer) as well as playfield from underneath [solid sheet of paper] and then gi bulbs, controlled bulbs, subways, coils, drop target assemblies, gi harness, switch harness, coil harness transparent pages)

    I'll bet that the book doesn't even detail the backbox improvements (with images) from the classic stern, dataeast, sega, whitestar, sam, spike and spike 2

    1 month later
    #1670 81 days ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    So it’s now a picture book?

    I like to think of it as a capstone level college course project that they've put off until the night before it was due

    and they still haven't shown any of the extras (stuff that they promised well over a year ago
    mine will probably end up on ebay just to rid myself of it and try and recoup a bit of the money that was paid out for it since I don't have any kids to put it on their bookshelves along their (better laid out and easily more superior) dr. seuss titles

    1 week later
    #1681 73 days ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    So we’re 2/3 the way to the end of our picture book now. Woo hoo.

    and only 2 years late right now. does that mean we'll see it sometime in 2020?

    1 month later
    #1690 40 days ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    I know a certain Baywatch example that could be photographed on cardboard without legs. Seriously though, if these are being photographed from home collections, I can only imagine some of the modded / purped out monstrosities that will show up in this book...if it ever gets done.

    so, are you saying that some unknowing pinsider may end up with these atrocities as a "secret santa" gift in 2020 (since they obviously won't make the end of the year deadline)

    #1712 38 days ago

    I never received the first crappy paper xmas ornament

    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I can’t believe I will still have to cough up shipping on two books if this gets made

    do they seriously expect us to cough up more money for something that will ultimately be 3 (or more) years late??
    and if I don't pay these extra shipping costs, which technically means that I'll never receive my book, can I then claim a refund?

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