(Topic ID: 171152)

Stern coffee table book Kickstarter?!?

By MinusWorlds

3 years ago

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  • 155 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Backyardace
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    Topic index (key posts)

    19 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #2 Link to Kickstarter project. Posted by ForceFlow (3 years ago)

    Post #74 Feedback on Stern editorial control. Posted by JoeDP (3 years ago)

    Post #109 Talk about editorial choices. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #120 Confirmation that Batman 66 will be in the book. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #123 Poster(s) shipping arrangements clarified. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #130 Project update announced. Posted by JoeDP (2 years ago)

    Post #785 December update from publisher - and promise of further updates Posted by Matesamo (1 year ago)

    Post #913 JoeDP says copy for book has been approved Posted by JoeDP (1 year ago)

    Post #1005 Update from Kickstarter page on book project Posted by KLR2014 (1 year ago)

    Post #1337 Well written complaint to Stern. Posted by j_m_ (9 months ago)

    Post #1482 March 12 backer update Posted by cooked71 (7 months ago)

    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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    #203 2 years ago

    I'm interested, but what knocked me off the fence is that on top of the 55 bucks for the book, I have to kick in another 13 for shipping. I'm OK with the price of the book, but shipping is ridiculous.

    #205 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Pledge and I will paypal gift you $13 as a Christmas gift if it funds.

    Thanks dude, but no way I'd accept that. Very cool of you!

    1 week later
    #314 2 years ago

    Pinballlew convinced me to get in, so I did. Hopefully you guys will keep the shipping reasonable...media rate option, perhaps?

    #319 2 years ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    $55,000 for a Stern book and you wonder why Stern has overall 2017 price increases, across the board quality problems, and abandoned code updates like Kiss. Jody goes crazy on a GBLE podcast like a lunatic showing why Stern's marketing and social media is anti customer. GBLE playfield replacement program pushed back, etc etc
    Oh a book that gives me an opportunity to send Stern and Paperflock hundreds of dollars, chase the shiny shiny objects...

    I'm no great fan of Stern or their business practices, but I am a fan of history. The "company that saved pinball" is trying hard to become "the company that finally killed pinball". There is not much information out there about the history of Stern--maybe Joe will cut through the haze and Stern BS and give us some insight--we'll see.

    #342 2 years ago

    Well...now that this is funded, let's hear more about the book and where we go from here.

    #362 2 years ago

    Be nice if we could get this back on track with some positive vibrations....

    #365 2 years ago

    Super, Robin--there are many positive vibrations!

    1 week later
    #398 2 years ago

    Jim has a new issue, he just has to finalize it and get it to the printer. Lots of interviews in this one.

    Added over 3 years ago: Latest info on the next issues in last post:

    2 weeks later
    #401 2 years ago

    Way too quiet around here, time for some news...

    #405 2 years ago

    Not worried, not looking for minute-by-minute updates, but checking in to say "Hi" once in a while would be nice. Joe hasn't posted in 21 days--we sure were kept up to date before this funded fully...

    #410 2 years ago
    Quoted from Matesamo:

    All backers were messaged a link to a private forum to discuss the book as it progresses, that is where the discussion has moved.

    Except the forum never seems to work--and there is very little activity on it when it does work. New forum or no, there would not be a book without Pinside, a little news here on occasion is not asking too much.

    Quoted from GotAQuestion:

    Oh yeah! Another common post-KS strategy. I had forgotten about the new forum. I checked it when they announced it and it's flooded with spammers but really... it's a book. I don't need news unless it's "book is done, ships next week".
    What's there to talk about

    We were told backers would have input as to what was going to be contained in the book. That would be nice. There is a lot more flow of information here than what has been generated so far on the PF forum.

    1 month later
    #433 2 years ago

    I was thinking the same thing, but the last time I mentioned the quiet I got lit up some...so now I'm just waiting to see what happens and hoping for good things.

    #435 2 years ago

    I'm sure it will all shake out in the wash (most likely), but I would like to have some of the input that had been promised. Perhaps anything Stern is gonna have issues...(cheap shot, I know).

    1 month later
    #442 2 years ago

    Perhaps an update might be in order.

    #447 2 years ago

    Already did, and read it all. Looking forward to numero cinco.

    2 weeks later
    #449 2 years ago

    cricket (resized).jpg

    #454 2 years ago

    Funny how people who want our money have plenty of time to keep track of their thread and keep it up to date--until they get the money...

    2 weeks later
    #460 2 years ago

    Big new post sounds good!

    Added over 2 years ago: And the news is...

    1 week later
    #468 2 years ago

    On top of not being updated--what happened to all the input we were supposed to have? I was hesitant to get involved with this in the first place--this book had better be good.

    #470 2 years ago

    The other forum has been a nightmare from day one--I finally gave up.

    #478 2 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Well, I think we all know that ain't happening.
    My suggestion to Paperflock, since your entire business model is about crowd funding books, is that if you want to use crowd funding then you have a duty to continue the same communication throughout the process as you did when you were asking for money.
    "Sorry, I've been busy" doesn't work.

    Well said.

    #484 2 years ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    This is a book about Stern, why would the communication be different then what Stern provides, lots of silence, excuses, and "Stay Tuned".

    Most excellent point. Probably have to deal with fading ink and binding separation as well

    #495 2 years ago

    I have it on good authority from a third cousin who got this from his cell mate at the Q, the big announcement is as follows: "Thanks for investing, having a great time in Aruba."

    #501 2 years ago
    Quoted from puck:

    The paper flock team has been really good when I reach out. Today was no exception, they have assured me that an update is coming early next week. Happy happy joy joy
    I have no idea what said update entails but it will be good to have some communication!

    See post 495...

    #523 2 years ago

    Don't care about all the new Sterns, give me the history of the transition from DE to Sega to Stern. This is where you should be spending a lot of time. Anyone can write a fluff piece using easily obtainable info on new machines. It would take some digging and investigation to start at the beginning--which is the part of the story I'm most interested in. A five month wait for Star Wars isn't acceptable--sounds like an excuse for running behind schedule. That would also tend to explain why there has not been any updates or teasers--nothing to report. However, Joe, if you use this extra time to really get into the history of the company, the wait will very possibly be worthwhile.

    #530 2 years ago

    I am also a supporter, and I guess my question is--where are they right now with the book? It should be ready to be published, but I'll bet my pre-order to Predator it isn't. Just tell us you are behind, sorry about that, and sorry about the lack of communication, but we will be using (some of the) the extra time to further update the book.

    #534 2 years ago

    Thanks for helping me get thru a few games I would have never finished...

    #536 2 years ago

    Can you blame anyone on Pinside for being a little skittish about people asking for money upfront, getting the money, disappearing from the forum for weeks on end, not posting updates, extending the completion date and having shipping delays?

    1 month later
    #559 2 years ago

    Please keep us posted. Joe is great at disappearing, evidently not so good at producing...

    #569 2 years ago

    How would one know if Joe was on vacation or not, he always seems to be missing--can't always be on "vacation".

    #578 2 years ago

    Uh, oh. First radio silence, now puck's last post came out silent...

    1 week later
    #586 2 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    But, But, But...... you will get a Photo of Hasselhoff playing Baywatch!!!!

    Not sure The Hoff knows what the flipper buttons do...but at least you get a photo of Hoff standing in front of Baywatch.

    3 weeks later
    #591 2 years ago

    Good luck getting a straight answer to that question (or any question).

    1 week later
    #601 2 years ago

    Well, be nice to hear from Joe once in awhile--but he is probably still on vacation (or something).

    #603 2 years ago

    Come on Frax, this all is at least worth a medium chuckle!

    2 weeks later
    #619 2 years ago

    Well, it is almost October, so our books should be on the way any time now--right Joe?

    Hello...Joe--you still out there?

    #628 2 years ago

    Joe has been his own worst enemy here. He was all over this thread until his project fully funded, then disappeared. How hard would it have been to post once in awhile?

    #652 2 years ago

    But Joe hired a big time writer and shared the foreword (or something), so this must be legit...

    #666 2 years ago

    Perhaps Joe went one better on the transparent overlays--I think I got my book today, but I'm not sure as the whole thing is transparent...

    #669 2 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    So, was yours an LE or CE?
    Transparent overlays, cover signed by whoever.....

    Not really sure, it's kind of hard to see, but I'll list it as a signed super transparent edition on eBay. I'll even throw in free shipping, as it is pretty light...

    1 week later
    #693 2 years ago
    Quoted from GotAQuestion:

    As a heavy Kickstarter user (thousands spent across dozens of projects) I have to say this is par for the course.
    I'm currently waiting on this book which has been delayed a few months so far, but also:
    * A board game that has been delayed 4 months
    * Another board game that has been delayed 8 months
    * A different game that just announced it's 4th delay this year, pushing it into 2018.
    * A video game that has been delayed 3 years and just published another update this week.
    * 13 total projects, over half of which are in some state of delay or another
    And I recently received a product that was delayed 2 weeks. Earlier this year I received a video game that was delayed 1 year.
    The trend - Kickstarter is never, ever, ever on time. The lowest delay I've ever had was a week. The longest I've heard of that still got delivered is 5 years. I have also backed 2 projects that vanished (a CD and a game) and will never be completed. In general I recommend not using Kickstarter if you can't stomach delays (unfortunately this advice is now late, too). It's not a pre-order system, it's venture capital with a reward at the end.
    All that said, sorry for anyone learning this the first time. The first project usually results in several "WTF Moments" for new backers. I am, however, 100% confident that this book will be made. This is totally normal Kickstarter timeline stuff.

    OK, maybe this is the way Kickstarter is done (I'll never participate again), but it is inexcusable that the people who asked for money to fund their project stiffed their backers after obtaining our money, and reneged on/forgot/ignored their promise that backers would have input (or is this also normal Kickstarter practice?). How hard is it to provide timely updates? Sure wasn't hard for Joe and his crew to be omnipresent before their project funded.

    #705 2 years ago

    Never seen so many exclamation points in my life in the newest PF news release, so I'm sure this book will be epic...

    1 month later
    #721 1 year ago

    Hey Paperflockers--how about a progress report, only been 32 days or so since the last one...

    #723 1 year ago

    Not taking that bet, j_m_!

    One thing I am sure of--the Paperflockers have shown me the light, I'll never participate in another Kickstarter project...

    #727 1 year ago

    Joe only kept a close eye on this thread when he was soliciting our money.

    #734 1 year ago

    That is cool and all, but the P-Flockers have cured me from ever supporting any pinball book on Kickstarter.

    #742 1 year ago

    If there had been updates every 38 days--that would have been a vast improvement in news from the P-Flockers...and that is still giving them a pass on all the input they were going to solicit from their backers for content of the book.

    Inexcusable lack of communication.

    1 week later
    #751 1 year ago

    I figured there was a 50/50 chance I'd be donating to Joe's vacation fund from the very beginning. Maybe I did, or maybe we get the book--who knows at this point?

    #764 1 year ago

    No worries if you did not receive this highly sought after collector ornament, as mine is available for the low bargain price of $55, (plus shipping).

    #766 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Lucky, I have two $225 versions.

    You might want to hang on to those deluxe versions, as I am positive they will continue to rise in value!

    #771 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    I think mrbally was being sarcastic...

    The was my take on it as well. Hey, Joe--wanna weigh in on this? Surely they have internet in Fiji...

    #774 1 year ago

    The P-Flockers cured me from all things Kickstarter.

    #777 1 year ago

    Thanks for getting us an update, h-10.

    #788 1 year ago

    Wow, Joe is promising an update once a month now! If he actually does it, should only be 5-6 more updates...

    #814 1 year ago

    Yup, the "you guys don't know how Kickstarter works" is a non-starter--that's not what we are pissed about. Don't hound us for money for your project--which Joe shamelessly did--then disappear once you get it. Joe was always around on Pinside during the countdown to full funding--until suddenly he wasn't, and he has not been back.

    #816 1 year ago

    Yes, he did hound us until those of us on the fence finally bought into his project and funded it. Many were not really buying what Joe was selling, but he promised the moon if we would just get this funded. The moon set shortly thereafter. Joe's book was dead in the water without the support of Pinside and he knew it.

    #819 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    Jesus you've been a broken record since the beginning when you were complaining about shipping charges. Over and over with your bellyaching. People like you make this hobby a chore instead of a fun diversion from real life.

    Well, that's like just your opinion, man.

    1 month later
    #844 1 year ago

    Joe--welcome back. Hope you stay back. Wish you would have never left.

    4 weeks later
    #884 1 year ago
    Quoted from puck:

    Any update joedp?

    Been two weeks...

    1 week later
    #891 1 year ago

    I've got on my swim trunks but haven't jumped off the ship just yet, as Joe promised us he was really back for good this time. No reason to have any doubts, 'cause you are still out there, right Joe Hello...Joe?

    3 weeks later
    #912 1 year ago
    Quoted from puck:

    Bump joedp you fall off again?

    Nah, Joe said he was back for good this time. Right Joe?

    Hello, Joe?

    #914 1 year ago

    I knew you'd be back, Joe! Now let's get this wrapped up--we all probably deserve something a little extra due to the long wait--and ship this out!

    1 month later
    #924 1 year ago

    Hey Joe, it's been a month--how about a visit and an update

    #926 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    That would actually be pretty cool. Obviously none of us want to see the book slowed down further but it would make it feel more current for sure.

    Star Wars sure wasn't a good reason for the delay, but Maiden would make up for it. Best new Stern since this book was proposed (well, even earlier than that), imo.

    1 week later
    #941 1 year ago

    One step forward, three steps back...

    1 week later
    #965 1 year ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    They've seen it? That is depressing to read, but I'd really like to have the book anyway since I've paid in, even if it is nothing more than photos of games with information such as was included when they were doing those game reviews for their 30th anniversary for batman 66.

    According to Joe the book isn't even put together yet.

    #975 1 year ago

    Hmmm...maybe Joe shoulda hired you, vireland : )

    4 weeks later
    #987 1 year ago

    Perhaps your team could contact the P-Flockers and give them some tips...

    2 weeks later
    #1004 1 year ago

    What is gonna show up first, a sighting of a Model 3 or this book?

    #1007 1 year ago
    Quoted from KLR2014:

    The CD Archive!!!
    Posted by PaperFlock Inc (Creator)
    Hello Backers!
    We are making great progress in design and have just had the opportunity to dive into Stern's highly guarded CD archive!
    This is a really big deal, they are making a huge gesture of trust and dedicating time from their staff to make sure this book looks amazing!
    Below is a tiny taste of what we have found in there.
    Thank you all for your support and patience, Joe and Dameon, the Paperflock team

    Are we supposed to be excited because they are still gathering info for this book, or concerned because they are still gathering info for this long overdue book?

    #1016 1 year ago

    I think the Flockers should hold things off just a little longer until Elvira 3 is out...

    1 week later
    #1045 1 year ago

    Speaking of Joe...he hasn't disappeared on us again, has he?

    1 week later
    #1049 1 year ago

    I think I found who should have written the book in the "Stern Nabs Godzilla" thread. Frippertron really gave a nice, concise history here:

    Quoted from Frippertron:

    People forget that at one time Gary Stern and his old man were the "little guy". The reason so few classic Stern Electronics games exist (with a couple exceptions) is not because people didn't like them, but Bally cock blocked them every chance they got. Bally wouldn't give operators deals if they bought Stern machines. Talk about screwing someone over! Gary Stern fought back eventually forming Data East, which was seen as a second class producer. Despite this, they found a way to acquire great licenses and grow. Data East becomes Sega and Sega becomes Stern. Gary went from second class citizen to top of the pinball heap with hard work and I'm sure a little ruthlessness. He took his lumps and i'm sure Charlie Emery will come back stronger with every minor setback he experiences as long as he perseveres and thinks outside the box.

    2 weeks later
    #1051 1 year ago

    Hey Joe, it has been 81 days since we last heard from you. I know you have not disappeared (again), as you told us you were back to stay (again). However, I was expecting an update by about day 57--so you are a little overdue. Not that I'm anxious or anything, I know you are busy (still), but some tidbit of information might be of interest to your backers. Thanks.

    #1054 1 year ago

    Oh, come one now...Joe disappeared once he got funded, then came back and promised not to disappear (several times) and did so anyway, and we have not heard from him in almost three months--but hey, I still have (a tiny amount of) hope for ol' Joe. Time to rise from the dead, Joe!

    But ya know, the longer this drags on the more I think if we ever do get our books, they are gonna suck...

    Added 14 months ago:

    Stupid spell check put an "e" where it didn't belong.

    Ummm...Joe, my faint hope is dimming--come on dude--time for a mystical re-appearance!

    #1064 1 year ago

    Joe has been abducted!

    #1080 1 year ago

    Usually when we stir the pot this much Joe magically shows up and vows he's back for good. Not this time, Joe?

    #1094 1 year ago

    I am so stoked! Now, what was this book about, again?

    #1103 1 year ago
    Quoted from puck:

    What is everyone going to do with the book if and when they get it?

    I’m gonna flip mine—figure I can get at least $30 for it. Plus shipping, of course...

    2 weeks later
    #1115 1 year ago

    Bummer--I thought maybe Joe had re-surfaced...

    1 week later
    #1135 1 year ago

    Every time there is a new post, I check expecting (well...hoping--actually) to hear from Joe. Joe said he was back for good (you know...he promised this several times come to think of it), and he always delivers (hmmm...that may not be exactly correct, either), so I'm still waiting to see his post. Maybe the interns require a lot of supervision, or he is just busy--or something...

    1 week later
    #1165 1 year ago

    The Flockers are keepin' it alive and keepin' it real! I figure after a few more discoveries of lost information from Stern, another group of spunky interns and a new graphic designer (or two), this should be ready for X-Mas........2019.

    1 week later
    #1189 1 year ago
    Quoted from Max_Badazz:

    You can't finish what hasn't been started

    Ha! Word has it the newest batch of interns and the fourth graphic designer are just about ready to begin some serious prepping to get ready to start working on the book...

    1 week later
    #1215 12 months ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I never even received the crappy paper xmas ornament. now I feel really cheated

    You sir, are in luck! I will have my crack team of interns and a newly hired layout man get right on creating you one of these very rare and highly sought after P-Flocker ornaments! For the low price of $55 (plus applicable state and local taxes, and add-in handling and shipping) this keepsake can be yours! Happy to spread holiday cheer to Pinsiders!! Guaranteed delivery by X-mas 2019 (or so, depending on how the interns and my new layout man work out...)!!!

    2 weeks later
    #1219 11 months ago

    Seems communications are slow between Pinside and the Flockers, so I'd like to wish the newest layout man (or woman) and the current batch of interns an early Happy Thanksgiving! I know this is an exciting time of the year with all the holidays coming up, so your minds won't be on doing much of anything with the book, most likely. Perhaps after the New Year you might crack open the rough draft and peruse it---or, maybe you might even directly look at whatever work you were supposed to have done! Have to get started sooner or later, I suppose, so let's make 2019 the year this really happens! (or--2020 has a nice ring to it if you are too busy...).

    If you move-on from P-Flock during the holidays (like all the interns and layout guys before you), please pass along these good wishes to your replacements!

    3 weeks later
    #1242 10 months ago

    I have full confidence that as soon as Joe gets back from Aruba and hits Starbucks to find the yet-to-be-hired newest batch of interns and the 4th (5th, 6th?) layout person, this baby will get moving! Or at least started...

    Hmm...judging from the photos looks like Joe really is in Aruba! Have a Mai Tai for me, Joe (and make sure they use the good rum, you can afford it)!

    #1256 10 months ago

    Dear Joe,

    Glad to see you and one of your interns are having a swell time. I sent you plenty of cash, so please dump that dopey shirt and get something Tommy Bahama. Thanks--looking forward to the next photo.

    #1270 10 months ago

    Joe is looking tanned, fit and ready to really get after it! Big news on Monday!

    1 week later
    #1321 10 months ago

    Ah, no worries--that cool X-mas ornament (of sorts) was almost worth it

    1 month later
    #1367 9 months ago

    Huh...I thought I had already read and forgotten about this book. Now Joe tells me I haven't even received it yet? Guess I still have that to look forward to...

    #1400 9 months ago

    I'm sure Joe has the interns busy signing stuff as we speak...

    #1405 9 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    [quoted image]

    Hmmm...the new batch of interns looks to be much improved.

    #1425 9 months ago

    Well, maybe... It seems to me that Joe has taken a new and more exciting tack for all of us (well, at least for him, anyway) of looking for the most rare of pinball machines located in Tahiti, Bora Bora, Aruba, Grand Cayman, Monte Carlo, the French Riviera, and parts beyond. It will not be an easy task, but judging from all the cool photos Joe is posting it seems like he is knocking it dead! You go, Joe--hope you find something (ummm...pinball related of course)! And, keep us posted on your newest interns--they are really starting to look a lot better the last few photos!

    3 weeks later
    #1436 8 months ago

    Evidently...pinball books are hard.

    2 weeks later
    #1479 7 months ago

    I'm thinking we might be better off if Joe did blow all our money taking the interns to Bora Bora and the Cayman's. Keep the photos coming Joe, that might be the best return we get. If this book does make it to print, I'm visualizing an amateurish hack job resulting in a big dose of disappointment.

    1 month later
    #1491 6 months ago

    The interns just came across another treasure trove of photos, so it may take just a short while longer...

    2 weeks later
    #1534 5 months ago

    I think Joe needs to take more interns on vacation...

    #1547 5 months ago

    Where is the improved page featuring all the hot interns on vacation?

    #1564 5 months ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    this is the comment that I plan to post to kickstarter today:
    joe and co.
    here's the problem as well as the facts (and yes, I'm one of those whiney naysayers):
    - the book is now 2 years overdue
    - not once have you apologized for the repeated delays or taken ownership of your shortcomings and lack of planning on this project
    - you waited until well after the project was fully funded before even putting together a basic layout and hiring an editor. these are things that should have been thought out well ahead of even offering the book as a kickstarter funded project
    - you failed to uphold your promise to deliver monthly updates
    it's hard to get excited about the updates because they don't really give us any sense of real progress being made, just more boilerplate rhetoric to appease your backers and bide yourself a bit more time.
    from my perspective, the delays might have been a bit easier to swallow if you were someone that appeared to be actually passionate about the hobby and this project. unfortunately, you don't seem to be that person. if you were, you wouldn't have joined pinside.com, one of the largest pinball forum communities simply to try and garner sales, promise frequent updates and then completely vanish
    fact: you joined pinside and posted right after you launched the kickstarter project on oct 18, 2016 and then disappeared after may 21, 2018 (with a mere 6 posts after promising monthly updates 16 months prior)
    with all that being said, I really don't expect what is finally produced (if it ever reaches completion) will be anything than mediocre as best
    just my 2 cents as someone that *is* passionate about the hobby

    Well, that just about sums it all up. Nice post.

    #1582 5 months ago

    That is the excuse the P-Flockers used for the delay in the first place--getting Batman66 into the book--or was it GB? Been so long I don't exactly recall.

    #1584 5 months ago

    Man, it has been a long time--SW!

    #1587 5 months ago

    Pinball is hard. Pinball books are hard. Planning on which intern to take to what vacation spot and spending all the pinball book money is even harder.

    #1591 5 months ago

    Unless the P-Flockers turn out the best looking pinball book ever, no one is gonna be happy after all this delay. What I'm seeing would have flown if this was delivered on time, but not now.

    #1606 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    All the people saying it's "never going to happen they just stole our money", they're quiet now. That's a good thing.

    I just figured Joe and the intern-of-the-week(end) had way more fun with that $55 than I would have...

    1 month later
    #1635 4 months ago

    Hoping for a few bonus pages of Joe and the interns frolicking on vacation...

    1 month later
    #1663 82 days ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    Sorry, you'll have to read Pinball Magazine for that

    I hope that little dig means you are going to do an article on the story of Stern!

    #1666 82 days ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    At some point, very likely, although an 'article' wouldn't cover it. I actually already have most of the games photographed. Priority, however, is a different cover story. But someday . . .

    That will be a must have for me (and a lot of others I'd think). Do it!

    1 month later
    #1716 37 days ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I can’t believe I will still have to cough up shipping on two books if this gets made

    I may have to eat my book payment rather than send these yahoos more money. Whose to say Joe and a few select interns won't go on another vacation with the shipping money?

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