You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Whysnow.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
will you fully document the current QC issues surronding the behind the scenes on all the defective playfields, what was the root cause, and what is\is not being done to fix this issue?
which companies made the junk pfs, what caused this come to a head, what is the fix?
These are the sort of things that interest me.
If so, I will support.
thanks. Does not sound like what I am looking for. If anything, I think the recent history of Stern appears to be defined by cost cutting and lack of QC along with attempting to push costs to the consumer as much as possible.
I would like to see the behind the scenes on these decisions and likely ramifications that are unfolding.
Aside from that I see this era as largely defined by the work of Lyman to bring out full featured code and save even poorly designed games. The story seems to be how 1 man can help keep a company form sinking itself with greed and declining quality.
Quoted from citerne:4 days left
7 030 $ to go
See the last stats at :
https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/paperflock/keeping-the-ball-alive-30-years-of-stern-pinball
yeah, we know... Posting it very 4 hours is plenty, lol.
Quoted from GotAQuestion:We get it tacshose, you don't like the project which is published by someone besides Stern, regarding the history of Stern. Congratulations on your moral high ground. Can you crap up some other thread now?
Go spend time talking about something you enjoy instead of spending all of your time focusing on something you hate.
you must not realize that he is speaking up BECAUSE of something he loves. He like many others sees the writing on the wall and this book is just more evidence of the possible decline of pinball due to greed.
I mean come on...
Huge QC issues
More incomplete code followed up with releases that cause even more issues
Unplayable new releases at Expo with a BM66 you had to send in an application to buy but are not allowed to touch
Stern cons us into paying for their end of year party which was crap and a joke
and
now....
they convince you to PAY for their personal PR book that is all a fluff piece...
This is something he obviously enjoys and has concern with the continual greed and people not aware that have pushed a Fing kickstarter to pay for the PR junk.
Quoted from JoeDP:People are mad at Stern for selling $5000 games, but who out there is selling NIB machines for less?
Sorry but you are missing the HUGE point...
People are mad at Stern for selling 5k games with LESS stuff, MORE QC issues, LESS code, CONTINUAL LIES to the customers about what is going on with QC issues and code issues, LOWER quality components, and BLANTANT censoring of anything even remotely negative (still cant believe they kicked out a well known member of the community for having the 'audacity to question a crazy 15k price and application for a game).
Seems obvious that people are happy to pay a 5k price tag or more for value or at least perceived value and right now the only thing Stern is doing it trying to rape the community that supported it. I call bullshit on Stern saving pinball... WE saved pinball! The people that bought, played, and paid to play during the dark years. Shit, Bally/Williams gets more credit with saving pinball than Stern. B/W instilled the love for the silver ball in many of us and it is what convinced many of us to buy turds of lower quality that Stern has produced.
Quoted from JoeDP:Listen I'm not saying everything in the pinball world is rosy and perfect or that we as a community can't push Stern to focus on the things the community is interested in, I'm just saying coming at them swinging is probably not the best way to get what you want.
I hear you, you are right, Stern, by themselves, did not save pinball. The operators, collectors, and players were right there with them doing it together. That's what we should focus on. And B/W can have credit too, they made some great machines, but they also chose not to keep doing it. I don't know the whole story, but it seems to me if they wanted to push through the hard times, that is a choice they could have made. And it is a choice that Stern made, and we should be grateful to them for that. There were probably much more profitable avenues they could have taken. Making pinball machines is tough!
That's all I'm saying, let's be on the same team, working with Stern, and whoever else is making pins to make the industry better.
Infighting is not sexy, does not help draw people to the hobby / sport, and doesn't build any bridges.
You want to see change in something, get involved. See what you have to offer.
Start a league in your area. Find something positive for the industry as a whole and approach it from that perspective.
Anyway, that's my two cents, and what I am choosing to do.
I do lots to promote and have tried to help out with Stern also, but you can only do so much. I understand you are new and have a vested interest now in kissing stern ass and trying to play diplomate. WHat is not sexy is new people coming into the pinball community, buying a new Stern and then being screwed with crap code, pealing decals, ghosting and chipping inserts, and just general junk that they paid big dollars for. The quality continues down down down while the prices go up up up.
STern appears to have had little choice in what else they could do during the dark years. IT was either close up shop or keep trying it with pinball. The pinballers kept it alive and even if Stern had closed up shop, someone else would have filled the gap where it was profitable, hence the numerous new players in the market now. Your book does more negative if it just acts as a PR fluff piece for Stern to help them take advantage of more noobs, and you are delusional if you think it will do anything beyond that. They won't show you behind the curtain, you won't get truth, and they will sell you into the bs game they do to everyone else that sells thei soul to get insider info and the story.
I wish you all the best on a personal level with the book, but I hope you are able to bring something really positive for the hobby as a whole out of this rather than just crowd funding your book and slingging more sales of CRAP qc games for Stern.
Quoted from Rondogg:Wow, you really don't know your history if you think any company was ready to fill the gap if Stern went under.
I never said that any company was ready to fill the gap, just pointing out that if it was profitable, then plenty would fill that gap.
Quoted from Rondogg:And blaming Stern but not the noob with open wallets and zero research?
noobs are to blame also, but Stern with their crap quality and getting a free PR book to further hype and lend them false credibility is a bad thing and puts more blame squarely on them. They work hard to control the message with FB bans, bans on pinball reporters that say anything remotely negative, and even threats to the largest pinball forum when things come up they want scrubbed from the web.
Quoted from Rondogg:a thread about a book (a book!)
no, a thread about a panhandling crowd funding for the tune of 55k for a Stern PR fluff piece.
Quoted from Rondogg:Settle down, Francis.
Piss Off with your Francis shit.
the right quote is "lighten up Francis" get it right it you are gonna use it...
Quoted from unigroove:As this goal was reached / backed by less than 500 backers, it seems only logical to me to assume there will be at least 500 copies left to be sold through alternative channels.
precisely. They got 500 people to pay up front for their Stern fluff book, then they get to sell the other 500 to make all the profits. That is how these scam kickstarters work. ZERO risk for the guys up front and likely 50-80k in profits on the back end, all the while you have zero idea how many LE, Prem, pros they actually make.
Quoted from JoeDP:You gave it a try and didn't get what you want right away, might as well turn vindictive and toxic.
How long have you been around pinball Joe? From what it appears on the surface, you signed up to Pinside less than a year ago and about the same time you started doing research on this for profit book venture. Guessing that is also the same time you needed another Hobby group that you felt were suckers enough to buy in to your no risk kickstarter BS?
By the way, the most important question for ANYONE that opted to back this is, "What is estimated delivery?" Based on your previous panhandling on kickstarter and other crowd funding sites/history on other projects, that seems to be the ONLY thing that matters at this stage. When are people going to see the books?
Quoted from GotAQuestion:I don't see this book coming close to that sort of timeline.
do your research on the hawker and you will see a common trend regarding timelines...
Quoted from master_of_chaos:if i get nothing, well, than we can talk again about scam.
kickstarter is a scam. It is a crowdfunding milennial BS where many people make 'jobs' out of starting continual crowd funding projects to make money. They take on zero risk, zero investment, and have zero obbligation or issue if they dont deliver. They also have zero commitment or contract around timeline. Kick starter claims something like 10% of 'funded' projects fail. That means 10% of the time people walk away with thousands of dollars and no product.
They neglect to tell you the % of projects that have drug on for years and years with no real way to ever reach the finish line.
Joe has made a partial living at minimum out of utilizing this BS platform to crowdfund his projects and self admittedly hiw projects have taken longer than expected in the past. Granted this one is not real complex since it is a fluff piece where the content is readily avialable and he obviously has the photog skills to make the pretty pictures. However, there is still inherent risk for all of the backers and Joe could walk right now with 55k and have no real issue. The risk is 100% on the pinheads that bought in and I am guessing he picked his mark with a little quick research to see the pinball community is easy to get $$$$$$$ from with just a little flash.
The other 'scam' aspect is this is all part of the smoke and mirrors of Stern. Joe is now trying to help them sell more of their ever decreasing quality product and they will now have a whole big PR stunt with pretty pictures highlighting the BS perception of quality. Sad part is yet again this scam PR stunt is paid for by the community. It is like the BS party paid for on the pocketbook of colelctors all over again but even worse and with a larger audience.
Quoted from JoeDP:The book will be delivered in May of next year as indicated on the pledge level of every reward on the kickstarter page.
any repercussions if it is not 100% delivered by then?
Quoted from robin:WhySnow, I think you are really taking this all a bit too far. This is about a pinball book for crying out loud. It's supposed to be a fun project.
you see it one way. I am entitled to see it another. I have 20k worth of Stern games with defective playfields and ghosting inserts and they have the gaul to run a damn kickstarter to ask for more money to fund a PR book they shoudl be paying for themselves and paying Joe to make.
WAKE UP ROBIN is my response. I dont think you are taking it far enough or being even remotely critical of the fact that this book may help sell lots of other defective games to new pinheads. I would say that if you genuinely care about the community and hobby then you should help use a little of your weight in the hobby to help get some real answers about these issues rather than crowd funding a fluff piece.
From Dec 13th 2016
Quoted from JoeDP:The book will be delivered in May of next year as indicated on the pledge level of every reward on the kickstarter page.
With the holiday weekend, it will be tough to have them all delivered by next Wednesday if they are not going out today.
Quoted from puck:The paper flock team has been really good when I reach out. Today was no exception, they have assured me that an update is coming early next week. Happy happy joy joy
I have no idea what said update entails but it will be good to have some communication!
Guessing it is a buy out.
Quoted from frolic:I guess the decision is made but the book should have capped at 30 years and batman. There will always be a new game coming and the book will be out of date shortly after publishing so this delay seems unnecessary.
agreed. Sounds like an excuse and lack of accountibility for the missed deadline. Weren't these commited to being in peoples hands by now? done and delivered?
Quoted from Matesamo:The estimated delivery date was May 2017, so a projected five month delay.
is this acceptable?
is this acceptable for a 100% crowd funded project?
Keep in mind that Joe sold everyone on the commitment for timely delivery and meeting hard deadlines. Playing devils advocate here, but typical pinside fashion would be to string them up and slay them.
In reality it is not like a complicated pinball machine they are building. We are talking about some pictures, some text, and hiring out the actual manufacturing to a book company.
They did this crowd funding on the backs of the pinball community, then it came to light they did not even have all the needed players lined up after they got funds, and now they are working on 2x the production schedule and by the sounds of it have almost nothing done.
Quoted from unigroove:I'd say $55,000 gives anyone plenty of room to source out to all the professionals you need to get this done in time. They're not even writing it themselves. I could have done it for less and have it done by now and I'm a one-man operation...
that was the first thing I thought of!
Shame that you were not the one doing this and the pinball community bought in to a fly by night company with no ties to the pinball world rather than someone previously vested in the community.
Quoted from Billy16:Can you blame anyone on Pinside for being a little skittish about people asking for money upfront, getting the money, disappearing from the forum for weeks on end, not posting updates, extending the completion date and having shipping delays?
nope, but I am amazed at some of the hypocrites that have Heighway and Dutch on blast but are perfectly fine with this book deal which has all the same symptoms (take money and then issues, missed deadlines, broken promises, lack of communication, excuses).
Sorry, but if people think the pre-order pinball issue is unacceptable then the pre-order book club is the same. I dont buy the "kickstarter is different" clause. They are both in the same club here.
Quoted from Pinballlew:I would say the price point of a preorder pinball versus a preorder book makes comparing the two a lot different.
ok, so running off with $125 is cool but $250 is not.
Glad we have a measuring stick for this 
Quoted from Pinballlew:I didn't realize it was $250.
I am not sure about DP.
With Predator is was anywhere from $250 to full payment
With Heighway it appears to be anywhere from $250 to $1000 deposit with some in for full on their own request.
Quoted from Pinballlew:No nothing is cool with running off with any money
agree 100%.
My entire point is that currently the symptoms of this book deal nearly mimic that of Predator.
Quoted from Rondogg:Thank you for sticking your dick in our mashed potatoes
my kind of party!
Quoted from JoeDP:I know it's been a while again, new post coming very soon!
We are waiting on the answer to a few questions, but as soon as we get them we will have a big new post!
This was your post from 8 months ago.
Where have you been and what has been going on? Sorry but after you got all the money, you disappeared then came back once before promising to be engaged with the community you took the cash from... what is different now?
Quoted from JoeDP:So our budget for printing the books, and paying everyone, and creating the other rewards is VERY tight!
Have you at least had the money invested for the past year while nothing has been happening?
Serious question, as you could have easily made 20% in the past 12months.
Quoted from j_m_:had it met its original projected date, the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have even been an issue
will be very sad if they attempt to scrub out his contributions from the book. I dont care what ends up happening, the man still made a contribution to the pinball hobby/Stern and it part of the story.
Quoted from j_m_:I know that it's only been 32 days, but given joe's track record I would have hoped that he would have at least hit his "I'll post at least once a month" for the first month after
agreed. he is pathetic.
Took all the money and just lip service. Always love when people screw up, come back and make refreshed promises, and then cant even keep the new promise for the first month.
Complete joke.
Quoted from JoeDP:has become largely unavailable.
I bet that sucked.
Imagine what it would be like if you had put in some money and someone continually ghosted you...
Quoted from j_m_:I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "had I known the sh!tsh*w that this would become, my $300+ (yep, I was dumb enough to sign in for one of those top tiers) would have been better off buying complete strangers a round at the local bar"
given stern's involvement in this, I believe that they should be held accountable as well to some degree
I drink Bourbon, but I would be hard pressed on a good night to do more than 3 $20 pours. See you at the next show, you can buy the first round
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Whysnow.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-coffee-table-book-kickstarter?tu=Whysnow and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
