(Topic ID: 171152)

Stern coffee table book Kickstarter?!?

By MinusWorlds

7 years ago


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    There are 2,971 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 60.
    #2201 3 years ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    Hello Pinside,
    My name is Joseph Rubinstein, I am one of the co-founders of PaperFlock inc, and am helping develop this book for Stern Pinball.
    I would like to personally answer your questions and address your concerns.
    Here are a list of things I think I can address in this thread, please feel free to message me if I left something out.
    #1. Kickstarter as charity.
    #2. Who we are (PaperFlock).
    #3. Will the book come out if funded?
    #4. What is the relationship between PaperFlock and Stern?
    #5. Why Kickstarter?
    #1. Kickstarter as charity.
    I have been running crowdfunding campaigns, advising on projects, and even speaking on panels about crowdfunding for 5 years now.
    Some people view crowdfunding as a sort of charity. There are two main things that cause people to view it this way. The first is when a crowdfunding campaign charges more for a reward than one would normally pay for the same item in a retail environment. This suggests that you are donating extra funds to help support the project. The other is that many crowdfunding projects try to solve a problem that would lead to social good or have benefactors outside of the crowdfunding community.
    I personally don't see crowdfunding as a charity. I see it as another way to help create things that might otherwise not get created.
    Our project does not charge more for our rewards than you might see in a retail environment, in fact we made sure our offerings were in line or below the price of similar items in a retail environment. Our project also does not imply we are creating a social good.
    Crowdfunding is also not new, books have been crowdfunded for centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding
    #2. Who we are (PaperFlock).
    PaperFlock Inc is Dameon Guess and Joseph Rubinstein.
    We are both pinball fans, who play and own machines.
    We are both business owners, and we both care a lot about this project.
    We are here to create something we care about.
    #3. Will the book come out if funded?
    Yes. The book will definitely come out if funded.
    As I stated above I have a long history with crowdfunding /crowdsourcing (https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/joedp) and my partner Dameon has a long history with printing. I have created and delivered on Kickstarter campaigns in the past. We are here, our reputation is on the line, Stern's reputation is on the line, I guarantee the book will come out if it gets funded.
    #4. What is the relationship between PaperFlock and Stern?
    In January of this year Dameon met with Jody from Stern at the CES convention. They briefly discussed the idea of a book. Dameon brought the idea to me and we spent 9 months working on proposals, contracts, and concepting out the book and the company to create it. About 6 weeks ago we all finally agreed on ideas and terms and signed a contract that gives PaperFlock the rights to use Stern content to create a book, and a crowdfunding campaign to fund the book.
    #5. Why Kickstarter?
    So why crowdfund this book? Crowdfunding is more than just raising funds, it is also community building and public awareness.
    In our proposal we told Stern that "Building and managing a Kickstarter project involves a lot of one on one communication with fans." And that this communication "gives the customer base a chance to participate in the recording of this important history, and hopefully a sense of ownership in the project."
    We have setup a forum on our website: http://www.paperflock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2
    The purpose of this forum is to have a conversation with all of the Kickstarter backers about what they want in this book. This doesn't mean that we will be able to accommodate every single person's desire for content, but it does mean we are listening and interested in what people are looking for.
    Crowdfunding this project means that we care about what the community wants, what the community has to offer. It creates a meaningful conversation between a company and it's customers.
    So could Stern Pinball make a book of their own, with their own money and their own ideas? Of course they could.
    But they could not make this book. A book full of the communities interests and thoughts. A book with the more than one point of view. A book we all can say we are proud to have participated in.
    Anyway, those are my thoughts. Interested to hear yours.

    Remember when Joe was all about communication on Pinside when he was cyber begging for money? Posted 86 times in this thread.

    He then went "inactive" after he achieved his goal.

    #2202 3 years ago

    It's a super prick move to have you all "pot committed" and jack up the shipping rates to cover the losses from the shit way he ran his company.

    #2203 3 years ago

    Typical vaporvare very attractive idea top presentation of what has never been here before super ambitious with top license and extra gear and gimmicks...I would have ordered as well but heard "too late" of it.

    #2204 3 years ago

    I also noticed that the email I sent to [email protected] bounced back...

    #2205 3 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisBardon:

    I also noticed that the email I sent to [email protected] bounced back...

    You might try contact info from the Whois data- https://www.whoxy.com/paperflock.com
    Or the corporate records provided by the state of California - https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/
    Search for paperflock

    #2206 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    You might try contact info from the Whois data- https://www.whoxy.com/paperflock.com
    Or the corporate records provided by the state of California - https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/
    Search for paperflock

    Done. I didn't know anyone actually left whois privacy off

    #2207 3 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisBardon:

    I also noticed that the email I sent to [email protected] bounced back...

    It's not like they're running a real business or anything.

    #2208 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I have some time on my hands. I’ll pick them all up and ship them myself if someone can track him down.

    his address is here
    https://www.bizapedia.com/ca/paperflock-inc.html

    #2209 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Considering the additional import duties that I will be charged here in the Netherlands, my total will come to roughly $455.

    Wow! Those are some serious import duties! How much is a new pinball machine to bring there?

    #2210 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I have some time on my hands. I’ll pick them all up and ship them myself if someone can track him down.

    That is a great offer from you and I appreciate it--but good luck tracking down Slimeball Joe and/or getting a straight answer out of him if you do find him. Maybe our best chance at locating Joe will be when he posts another vacation photo or when he comes back to Pinside soliciting money for his next book

    #2211 3 years ago

    Doesn’t look like a residence. Maybe a hotel? Mail pickup service?

    C3BE9F6B-38A9-4AC4-8E0A-31AD9E1C6EBF (resized).jpegC3BE9F6B-38A9-4AC4-8E0A-31AD9E1C6EBF (resized).jpegEC977EFA-A275-4EA8-97D6-A3CF9E964AC7 (resized).pngEC977EFA-A275-4EA8-97D6-A3CF9E964AC7 (resized).png

    #2212 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I'm not one to publicly complain very quickly. But I agree with all of you that this is quite ridiculous.
    The original shipping estimate on their site was $17. And now Paperflock expect me to pay $125 for shipping for a book, a shirt and a poster.

    Thats my pledge also, book,tshirt and poster, also Netherlands and I got charged $85,85

    #2213 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Doesn’t look like a residence. Maybe a hotel? Mail pickup service?
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Figures Joe is living in a rent-by-the-hour hotel...

    #2214 3 years ago

    that just shows even more that this is a scam

    #2215 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Doesn’t look like a residence. Maybe a hotel? Mail pickup service?
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    It's a mixed use building. Paperflock is registered to a space that's an apartment on the 11th floor, not the business areas. Looks like $1400/mo for a 1B/1Bath. So, likely Joe's apt or the apt of the agent for service.

    Interestingly, that same apartment is registered to the business Octopotees.

    #2216 3 years ago

    Look I’m sure they are paying a fulfillment company to ship all these out. Let’s face it Joe is allergic to work, so he would never ship 500 books himself. That adds a bit, probably 30%. Still no excuse for the fleecing.

    #2217 3 years ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    Look I’m sure they are paying a fulfillment company to ship all these out. Let’s face it Joe is allergic to work, so he would never ship 500 books himself. That adds a bit, probably 30%. Still no excuse for the fleecing.

    Yup... bigger book... paying others... a need for better margins... increased prices since the early estimates.. including alot of stuff not in the early estimates (clothing, posters, etc).

    #2218 3 years ago
    Quoted from Billy16:

    That is a great offer from you and I appreciate it--but good luck tracking down Slimeball Joe and/or getting a straight answer out of him if you do find him. Maybe our best chance at locating Joe will be when he posts another vacation photo or when he comes back to Pinside soliciting money for his next book

    I think this is Joe’s website: https://www.josephrubinstein.com/
    You can also contact him on Facebook Messenger (Joe Rubinstein).

    #2219 3 years ago
    Quoted from KLR2014:

    Thats my pledge also, book,tshirt and poster, also Netherlands and I got charged $85,85

    Wait, WHAT?

    #2220 3 years ago

    I'm just waiting at this moment.. definitely not going to pay an additional $85 to get it shipped to Belgium. That's insane and criminal that they ask so much.
    Maybe I'll search for a US address to have it shipped to but that's still expensive, or just consider it a loss and let him keep the book as right now I probably will never be happy with it and seeing it in my bookcase will only give me bad memories..

    #2221 3 years ago

    shipping to germany 85,35$

    Shipping to Germany (resized).pngShipping to Germany (resized).png
    #2222 3 years ago
    Quoted from master_of_chaos:

    shipping to germany 85,35$ [quoted image]

    Well, technically, Germany is further for them to ship to than Belgium. So that $.50 difference makes total sense.

    ...but that doesn't explain why I have to pay $125 shipping.

    #2223 3 years ago

    Same shipping to Belgium for the packag of the book + Tshirt + poster...
    What a sad experience this whole book is while it should have been fun!

    @robin: did you add anything to your original order? Friend of mine added an additional T-shirt which added 42$ to the original shipping cost...

    #2224 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bingovit:

    What a sad experience this whole book is while it should have been fun!

    I agree, this should have been a fun experience and initially I was really looking forward to this book. Heck, going through my e-mails I just remember that I even helped Paperflock out at some point. I had an hour long Skype call with them when they contacted me about this Kickstarter and allowed them to leverage Pinside for obtaining permission to get photos for the book. I even stickied their Kickstarter campaign thread, which probably helped them reach the funding goal in the first place.

    And then... Radio silence... Once they secured the funds, they disappeared. Only to come back after 4 years with this ludicrous shipping price jump (from $17 to $125, that's a 635% price increase!).

    It all just feels... ugh.

    Quoted from Bingovit:

    robin: did you add anything to your original order? Friend of mine added an additional T-shirt which added 42$ to the original shipping cost...

    Nope just a book, rolled poster, folded poster (tucked inside book, I presume) and at- shirt. How that can cost $125 to ship boggles my mind.

    My dilemma is this. Do I forget about this whole thing and essentially donate my pledge to Paperflock without anything to show for it? Or do I send them another $125, making this the most expensive book I ever bought? Or maybe I'll try and get them to only ship the book, for free, if I let them keep the posters and the t-shirt. Hmm, even then, probably still the most expensive book I ever bought.

    JoeDP are you reading this? Care to chime in here?

    #2225 3 years ago

    In fact, if i calculate with 2.5KG weight , USPS says it will be 85,10$

    USPS Shipping cost germany (resized).pngUSPS Shipping cost germany (resized).png
    #2226 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    My dilemma is this. Do I forget about this whole thing and essentially donate my pledge to Paperflock without anything to show for it? Or do I send them another $125, making this the most expensive book I ever bought?

    The issue is that if I cancel now, I’ve lost $225 or whatever, and get nothing. So effectively the book is only costing me the $125 freight when compared to cancelling. It’s a catch 22.

    #2227 3 years ago

    There is no way to win here.

    If you pay up you have just made them another 10k scam profit (but you get a seriously overpriced book)
    Or you just leave it and lose your money but then they will just re sell your spot and still make money off you.

    Either way paperFuck will win. They really fucked people over. What a vile company.

    #2228 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    My dilemma is this. Do I forget about this whole thing and essentially donate my pledge to Paperflock without anything to show for it? Or do I send them another $125, making this the most expensive book I ever bought? Or maybe I'll try and get them to only ship the book, for free, if I let them keep the posters and the t-shirt. Hmm, even then, probably still the most expensive book I ever bought.

    I'm holding on to the backerkit survey for a few days to see whether anything happens. I still think it'd be interesting to see what Stern thought about this whole thing. Reading the updates, it sounded like Gary wanted this to turn out well, so to have it all end with a fulfillment nightmare looks bad on them. Yeah, they're selling $1000 toppers, but they're also able to do things like ship a t-shirt.

    #2229 3 years ago
    Quoted from master_of_chaos:

    In fact, if i calculate with 2.5KG weight , USPS says it will be 85,10$ [quoted image]

    Just so I'm clear, you went to the USPS website and got a comparable price?

    #2230 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    joedp are you reading this? Care to chime in here?

    Nope.... he conveniently deactivated his Pinside account once he fleeced.....errrrr..... I mean fulfilled orders.

    #2231 3 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    The issue is that if I cancel now, I’ve lost $225 or whatever, and get nothing. So effectively the book is only costing me the $125 freight

    Sunk Cost fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

    The only relevant question at this point is will you get your items if you spend the shipping/handling/fees Paperflock is currently asking. Seems questionable whether they will follow through on shipping given their abysmal track record so far.

    robin You did the right thing making the project a sticky when it was starting. It was a great idea. None of us at the time believed JoeDP was a con artist. The book was a promising idea.

    #2232 3 years ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Nope.... he conveniently deactivated his Pinside account once he fleeced.....errrrr..... I mean fulfilled orders.

    He actually went through the process of deactivating his account when we were of no more value to him? What a turd.

    #2233 3 years ago

    $85 to ship to the UK. I can get a flight myself for that freaking price!!!

    Sort it out Flockdoods!

    Neil.

    #2234 3 years ago

    Maybe we can arrange a pickup?

    #2235 3 years ago

    Agree with note above. Real question is will it actually ever ship. Zero credibility here, I would caution throwing more money at it.

    First they should honor their original quotes. If that is impossible, maybe they should offer digital edition for those of you who don’t want to pay for shipping. No work on their part to do that I would assume. Defeats the coffee table portion of it, but at least you get something.

    #2236 3 years ago
    Quoted from ataritoday:

    Agree with note above. Real question is will it actually ever ship. Zero credibility here, I would caution throwing more money at it.
    First they should honor their original quotes. If that is impossible, maybe they should offer digital edition for those of you who don’t want to pay for shipping. No work on their part to do that I would assume. Defeats the coffee table portion of it, but at least you get something.

    Digital Edition???? No.

    #2237 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Just so I'm clear, you went to the USPS website and got a comparable price?

    Yes. I was really surprised about this.
    To be honest, i never checked shipping rates in the usps website (why should i) so i might have made a fault.
    But i choosed shipping with insurance, over 4 Pounds wight and a box large enough to fit the book.

    #2238 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Do I forget about this whole thing and essentially donate my pledge to Paperflock without anything to show for it? Or do I send them another $125,

    I'd quit when I was ahead.

    I'd never pay anyone more money to stick it up my wazoo.

    LTG : )

    #2239 3 years ago

    The cost of shipping has gone up in 4 years since freshmen are now seniors. But maybe they got a sneak peek to provide some pictures of a title not released yet...

    next (resized).jpgnext (resized).jpg
    #2240 3 years ago
    Quoted from master_of_chaos:

    Yes. I was really surprised about this.
    To be honest, i never checked shipping rates in the usps website (why should i) so i might have made a fault.
    But i choosed shipping with insurance, over 4 Pounds wight and a box large enough to fit the book.

    Kind of reminds me of why it's important you don't let projects get away from you. They had a certain sized book in mind when they announced this project. They let it grow in every way, scope, page count, paper size, and beyond the extra years it took to complete it, they are left with a super heavy book that is prohibitively expensive to ship.

    #2241 3 years ago

    He just posted an update with his actual costs. Why ship USPS if they are this expensive??

    50AA3ABE-672D-4171-8527-AE87B3FF0180 (resized).jpeg50AA3ABE-672D-4171-8527-AE87B3FF0180 (resized).jpeg
    #2242 3 years ago

    I just posted a reply on their kickstarter page. what joe doesn't realize is that buy using the usps's flat rate boxes, he's subjecting everyone to usps's flat rate charges.

    I [left handedly] let him know to get off his lazy ass and purchase the proper size generic box (which he can do through uline.com) and the shipping costs should be drastically lower.

    again, this is just another instance of them doing the least amount of effort rather than taking some time and investigating.

    additionally, using a flat rate box means that you have to use more packaging material (or probably in this case, he'll probably just ship it without any protection and the 4.5lb book ends up getting banged around, arriving all dinged and dog-eared.

    flat rate (12"x12"x5")
    flat rate (resized).pngflat rate (resized).png

    vs. media mail (same size box, same origin, same destination)
    media mail (resized).pngmedia mail (resized).png

    and for our international friends, here's a direct comparison with using flat rate vs. your own box which equals a $20 difference
    international (resized).pnginternational (resized).png

    #2243 3 years ago

    What a sad story. Newest game in the book is probably GB. So awesome. Took so long that the technology of pinball completely changed.

    Anyone want to send me money for my project? A book called "Stern: The Last Five Years"

    I promise to send you the book in 2025.

    Confession -- I did knuckle under and pay for the shipping.... lol

    #2244 3 years ago

    Aren't those flat rate boxes basically the most expensive possible option? I think just about every other kickstarter I've backed has used a professional fulfillment company to deal with shipping-this is probably why. It does say that they're working on a solution, so I'm holding off on the backerkit survey for now.

    First I've heard about backerkit requiring signature confirmation though.

    #2245 3 years ago

    Flat Rate is usually a decent way to ship heavier items, postal rates have shot up a lot recently. I shipped a 2 pound package via priority mail to California and it was twenty something dollars, I almost fainted. Everytime I sell something on Ebay (I offer free shipping) I hold my breath hoping it isn't going to the West Coast, unless it fits into a priority mail flat rate box. Rates are crazy.

    #2246 3 years ago

    in there update he is charging for a storage fee at the shipping location and packing fee - maybe he should store in a personal / friends garage and pack himself instead of charging us the fees. Then pack in a brown non branded box to reduce the cost more.

    we have been PAPERF#CK'd

    #2247 3 years ago

    They should offer Media Mail on all the domestic books and get off their ass (or have the interns do it it they aren't vacationing with Joe) and find a more reasonable way to ship internationally.

    #2248 3 years ago

    If Joe did figure out how to ship at a reasonable cost, he'd pocket the difference. He's already sent out the invoice. You think he's going to fool with refunds? I imagine he's as ready to be done with this as most of the people he ripped off.

    And any book that doesn't get sold to a backer will be sold to the dozens of people who asked how to get a copy of the book on the various social media posts it occasionally pops up in.

    I'm curious how much this will retail for when it eventually shows up on Amazon. I bet with shipping it's less than $90

    #2249 3 years ago

    I'd like to welcome all my American friends to what it's like being a pinball collector who doesn't live in America. Go take a look at the shipping costs to Canada from Marco or Pinball Life.

    More seriously, this is some bullshit!

    #2250 3 years ago

    Why the hell is he shipping priority mail across the world? A 2 lb parcel from the USA to Norway is $24 via USPS first class mail. Should be the same price to most of the EU. Sure, it takes a bit longer, but its also a fraction of the cost.

    There are 2,971 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 60.

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