What should we vote for? Will it really take another couple months to get the “best”? If it’s two months, we can wait - heck we’ve waited this long, what’s another couple of months. But, we all know two months will turn into a year plus. Hate being pessimistic :-/
Quoted from frolic:This is dumb.
"Do you want a piece of shit, or a good book? Take our poll"
You don't ask the customer this. You make an executive decision and you deliver on deadlines the best product you can. You don't show the customer what it could have been and then say "sorry we ran out of time to give you THIS".
This poll is tainted because obviously the "ship now" examples are all turds.
Quoted from Ronnie1114:The headings from the "original" layout are comically bad lmao
Couldn't agree more. This looks like something I could do wtf. This is "Laser War" sales flyer and it looks like it won't even be in the book. What I expected from this project, already delivered a year or 2 ago, was a book like the "Art of Atari" and instead we are getting the Sonic movie:
1415f1 (resized).jpgQuoted from hool10:Couldn't agree more. This looks like something I could do wtf. This is "Laser War" sales flyer and it looks like it won't even be in the book. What I expected from this project, already delivered a year or 2 ago, was a book like the "Art of Atari" and instead we are getting the Sonic movie:
[quoted image]
That's a great looking book. Stern should contact them to do the 40th anniversary book.
I would vote for the piece of shit original layout. Makes the whole kickstarter fiasco more humorous. Plus Gary Stern would have to live with that amateurish book being associated with his company. Obviously there is nothing in the Stern Paperflock contract around quality of the book since it is being decided by survey.
What I find interesting is that the pages done by the graphic artist have absolutely no information. It is as if they just said put pictures of this machine on a page, totally forgetting that they had all this text and information which was supposedly already compiled before they hired this guy to do the layout. Now they want time to throw away all of the graphic artist’s work and add text.
Wow, these paper flock dudes are grade A assholes. Putting a choice like this off on customers is really a shitty move.
Years in the making, and the original layout looks like an amateur high school senior project ... I'm sorry, but you want us to be impressed by the "improved layout"? What a crock - the original layout looks like a draft that was thrown together in 15 minutes.
And then they say they want a vote - print as is, or give them "one or two months" to get it perfect? So after many years, you take a vote on just 1 or 2 months longer? That makes absolutely zero sense. None. This just reeks of desperation and crookedness.
Don't forget that all the Stern designers, etc including Gary himself has to sign this book for certain tiers. They also approved of this layout.
this is the comment that I posted to kickstarter today:
joe and co.
here's the problem as well as the facts (and yes, I'm one of those whiney naysayers):
- the book is now 2 years overdue
- not once have you apologized for the repeated delays or taken ownership of your shortcomings and lack of planning on this project
- you waited until well after the project was fully funded before even putting together a basic layout and hiring an editor. these are things that should have been thought out well ahead of even offering the book as a kickstarter funded project
- you failed to uphold your promise to deliver monthly updates
it's hard to get excited about the updates because they don't really give us any sense of real progress being made, just more boilerplate rhetoric to appease your backers and bide yourself a bit more time.
from my perspective, the delays might have been a bit easier to swallow if you were someone that appeared to be actually passionate about the hobby and this project. unfortunately, you don't seem to be that person. if you were, you wouldn't have joined pinside.com, one of the largest pinball forum communities simply to try and garner sales, promise frequent updates and then completely vanish
fact: you joined pinside and posted right after you launched the kickstarter project on oct 18, 2016 and then disappeared after may 21, 2018 (with a mere 6 posts after promising monthly updates 16 months prior)
with all that being said, I really don't expect what is finally produced (if it ever reaches completion) will be anything than mediocre as best
just my 2 cents as someone that *is* passionate about the hobby
Quoted from j_m_:this is the comment that I plan to post to kickstarter today:
joe and co.
here's the problem as well as the facts (and yes, I'm one of those whiney naysayers):
- the book is now 2 years overdue
- not once have you apologized for the repeated delays or taken ownership of your shortcomings and lack of planning on this project
- you waited until well after the project was fully funded before even putting together a basic layout and hiring an editor. these are things that should have been thought out well ahead of even offering the book as a kickstarter funded project
- you failed to uphold your promise to deliver monthly updates
it's hard to get excited about the updates because they don't really give us any sense of real progress being made, just more boilerplate rhetoric to appease your backers and bide yourself a bit more time.
from my perspective, the delays might have been a bit easier to swallow if you were someone that appeared to be actually passionate about the hobby and this project. unfortunately, you don't seem to be that person. if you were, you wouldn't have joined pinside.com, one of the largest pinball forum communities simply to try and garner sales, promise frequent updates and then completely vanish
fact: you joined pinside and posted right after you launched the kickstarter project on oct 18, 2016 and then disappeared after may 21, 2018 (with a mere 6 posts after promising monthly updates 16 months prior)
with all that being said, I really don't expect what is finally produced (if it ever reaches completion) will be anything than mediocre as best
just my 2 cents as someone that *is* passionate about the hobby
Well, that just about sums it all up. Nice post.
Just an observation. These guys can't lose. A vote for the first version will give them the power to blame YOU for the crappy book. If you vote for the second version, it gives them the power to keep this thing going on forever.
I guess there must have been a lack of supervision on the person who put these pages together. That original Laser War layout makes no sense what so ever. Whoever did that should have been fired from that job instantly. Yet they let him/her continue the whole book? Seems very odd. In fact, it seems so odd, that I'm actually expecting the person who did the layout came up with the page they now show as approved, and they just whipped together a few worse looking pages that make no sense at all. Could it all just be such a smokescreen?
Quoted from unigroove:I guess there must have been a lack of supervision on the person who put these pages together. That original Laser War layout makes no sense what so ever. Whoever did that should have been fired from that job instantly. Yet they let him/her continue the whole book? Seems very odd. In fact, it seems so odd, that I'm actually expecting the person who did the layout came up with the page they now show as approved, and they just whipped together a few worse looking pages that make no sense at all. Could it all just be such a smokescreen?
I don't believe they did the whole book with the layout that looked like the crap one. No one is that dumb. This is just another way to buy more time.
Quoted from KLR2014:Just got an update:
We want to hear from you! And we have a big update too.
PaperFlock Inc
May 6, 2019
External link
View on Kickstarter
Hello Kickstarter Backers.
First I want to apologize for not posting an update in April.
But I also want to assure you we have been working hard on the book!
We presented a full book layout to the Stern staff last month, and the feedback was good.
But we don't want the book to be good, we want it to be GREAT!
We got all of the layouts from the designer last month, and have been working hard to make them even better! Adding fun facts, graphics, and retouching photos to make them pop off the printed page.
But we have been hearing a lot from backers who are frustrated with the time it is taking, and we completely understand the feeling.
So we need to hear from you to help us decide if we should take the time to try and make everything as good as we can, or if we should just send it to the printer as is.
First here is a graphic showing you the work we have been doing over the past weeks and months.
On the left is the original layouts we got from the designer and on the right are the layouts we feel are greatly improved.
Layout Comparisons
A closer view
(Keep in mind these are going to be large printed pages, so this small graphic may be hard to read.)
We think it will take another month or two to get this book to where we are happy with it and ready to send to the printer. We base this estimate on the time it has taken us to rework what we have done so far and what we believe it will take to complete the remaining layouts.
Now you may remember that in the last post I said we were 90% of the way done, and you may ask, "If you're 90% of the way done, why will it take another 2 months?" Well if you think about where we started from, which was just an idea for a book to celebrate these games and this period, we have come really far.
We went to Stern 3 times to interview the staff, collect the stories, document as much history as we could find. Zack our writer intertwined those stories into a single flowing narrative that gives a broad view of the entire history of Stern from the start! We edited that work into a reasonable readable story that we think flows very well. We have now done 6 large scale shoots photographing dozens and dozens of machines, with a focus on detail. We have done a lot of research to collect facts about every machine. We have done layouts for every page, and retouching for every photo, including cutting out machine views for every page, some have 3! And maybe most importantly we have created a presentation format we feel maximizes every centimeter of the printed page, while still remaining clear and legible.
We believe this is becoming a beautiful work that really shows the machines, the art, the game design, and the story of these objects we all love so much.
So now it's up to you. We want to hear from every single backer!
Should we keep going and complete this in the manner we know we can and make it as beautiful as we know how?
Or should we just call it done and get the thing off the the printer?
Here is the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/73ZHDRP
It is only 1 question and will take only a few seconds to answer, but your response will show us the direction we need to go.
As always thank you all so much for your support and your patience, Dameon, Joe, and the Paperflock Team
[quoted image][quoted image]
So any results for the online survey yet? I imagine the voter count is good.
It would be a fitting end to this disaster for them to release the book unfinished. So that's what I voted for. Release a pile of shit for this pile of shit. RIP
I should also note that I don't really care because IF I do ever get a book it will never be opened and immediately put in the trash where it belongs. Hope this project forever haunts this crook
I was going to ask here if anyone got a refund. Then I noticed they posted this on the kickstarter:
Screen Shot 2019-05-09 at 9.15.32 AM (resized).png
In business (in the real world) if this happens you can be sued into bankruptcy because the business is insolvent.
It's fitting that this book has followed the exact same pinball trajectory of the most infamous pinball failures, blown deadlines and no cash to refund anyone.
Quoted from frolic:I was going to ask here if anyone got a refund. Then I noticed they posted this on the kickstarter:
[quoted image]
In business (in the real world) if this happens you can be sued into bankruptcy because the business is insolvent.
It's fitting that this book has followed the exact same pinball trajectory of the most infamous pinball failures, blown deadlines and no cash to refund anyone.
Because the crook blew all the stolen money on vacations and "interns".
does this mean that once this joke is finally unleashed upon the public, we backers can then demand a refund? 
Quoted from EricHadley:I should also note that I don't really care because IF I do ever get a book it will never be opened and immediately put in the trash where it belongs.
Can I have it instead? 
So when the book is done, then they will be in a better place to offer refunds?
Ask for interest on your money. 
I seriously can't believe they are asking people if they want a piece of trash layout now or wait until it's completed... btw looks like the poll is open to anyone, since I was able to vote and I'm not even a backer (thankfully). What a joke.
remember they want to hear from everybody who backed them. So they aren’t going to do a thing until the number of votes equals the number of backers. That will get him another year at least. Next two updates are going to read, still waiting on votes from EVERY BACKER.
Quoted from Ronnie1114:The headings from the "original" layout are comically bad lmao
It's so bad I want it badly
I don't even remember if I ordered 1 or 2.
Probably two. One was scheduled as a prize for our annual local league... two years ago. Since then I moved to another city! (and currently a different country...)
So one copy should be enough for me. But I would keep it, because this book (especially the original version) would be an instant collector. JJP should buy a few of these.
Quoted from TheBrewhouse:I would vote for the piece of shit original layout. Makes the whole kickstarter fiasco more humorous. Plus Gary Stern would have to live with that amateurish book being associated with his company.
Agreed. Except "amateurish" is far too kind.
That is the excuse the P-Flockers used for the delay in the first place--getting Batman66 into the book--or was it GB? Been so long I don't exactly recall.
I think it was Star Wars, pretty sure there was a lot of speculation June 2017. Wow, 8 games have come out during the delay?!?!?!? 8?!?!
Let’s think about this for a minute. In the time paperflock has pissed away, stern was able to develop, build, and ship 8 new games. 8 entire machines including two different architectures. How f’n long does it take to write a shitty book???
Pinball is hard. Pinball books are hard. Planning on which intern to take to what vacation spot and spending all the pinball book money is even harder.
another update:
Hello Kickstarter Backers!
First, I want to tell you we are rocking our way through these
layout revisions and have done about a dozen since our last
update
a week ago!
We are on track to get this done very soon!
We asked our 444 backers to let us know if you wanted us to push
through and finish the book the best way we know how, or send
it to
the printer immediately even if it's not up to our personal
standards.
We received 206 responses to our survey that were overwhelmingly
supportive of sticking to our mission, even if it takes more
time.
90% of backers said "Keep working"!
If you would like to see the results yourself on the survey
website you can do so here:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/stories/SM-5VHBP8HL/
We really appreciate the support and understanding.
In a comment on the last post someone suggested we have never
apologized for taking so long. We thought we had, but just in
case
anyone out there feels like either we don't know this project
is
well overdue or does not feel we have properly addressed
this, let
me do that now.
As Kickstarter backers, you have trusted us with your money. We
are deeply sorry the project has taken this long to produce.
We
jumped into this project with both feet after only a few
conversations with people about the access we would have and
the
existence of material we believed we could use. It turned out
that
the photographic documentation that was promised before we
launched
the Kickstarter actually did not exist! So we were forced to
do the
work ourselves, traveling around the U.S. to shoot almost ALL
of
these machines—many of which are extremely rare! If you see
our
previous updates, you can understand what a big undertaking
this
was. Even shooting 6 or 7 machines can be a huge, several-day
job
with travel and hotels. But we want you to know we are doing
our
very best to uphold our promise to you, and produce the best
book
we possibly can. Hopefully at the end when you have this
beautiful
book in your hand you will feel it is worth it and will be
able to
forgive us.
And here are a few more pages so you know we are working
hard!
Thank you all for taking the time to answer our survey, thank
you for your patience, thank you for your support, just thank
you
all in general.
We are working hard to get the best product we can in your hand
as fast as we can!
Best,
Joe, Dameon, and the Paperflock Team
4314337112e6281868e685e7622c8d74_original (resized).png6107c4b6e69e727b3e9d966039ea793c_original (resized).png98c6d895b5574ecd7a2c342566a9a8f2_original (resized).pngc16b6ae3e7e8ec612b1dd9cee836fa51_original (resized).pngQuoted from KLR2014:another update:
Hello Kickstarter Backers!
First, I want to tell you we are rocking our way through these layout revisions and have done about a dozen since our last
update a week ago!
Meh. Layout IS improving, but still too little, too late.
Unless the P-Flockers turn out the best looking pinball book ever, no one is gonna be happy after all this delay. What I'm seeing would have flown if this was delivered on time, but not now.
Quoted from Rondogg:I wonder if we're going to get production numbers for recent machines?
Doubtful. If they did, it would delay this clusterf**k of a book by years.
Quoted from KLR2014:90% of backers said "Keep working"!
I think they actually meant START working
Quoted from Billy16:Unless the P-Flockers turn out the best looking pinball book ever, no one is gonna be happy after all this delay. What I'm seeing would have flown if this was delivered on time, but not now.
If I get a book, I will be happy as long as it has a good level of content. Don't see what difference it would've made to my life if I had it a year ago vs a year from now. Unless of course I die before the book arrives, but then I have a whole other level of problems.
Quoted from paul_8788:If I get a book, I will be happy as long as it has a good level of content. Don't see what difference it would've made to my life if I had it a year ago vs a year from now. Unless of course I die before the book arrives, but then I have a whole other level of problems.
Great concept....can I borrow your next NIB pin for a year or so? Won't make a difference to your life, but it will for mine! lol
Quoted from frolic:A sick part of me hoped the "Ship it now" would win. lol.
You never know, that option may have won. They probably were going with the new format the whole time but wanted to have a "vote" so that they looked like the good guys and gave the people what they say the people wanted, and thus buying themselves more time.
Quoted from Manimal:Great concept....can I borrow your next NIB pin for a year or so? Won't make a difference to your life, but it will for mine! lol
Yes, because a several thousand dollar pinball machine is exactly the same as a $50 dollar book...
I get why people are upset, especially those that contributed hundreds. I don't excuse Paperflock and the giant mess they have made out of the project to this point. It's just for me personally a pinball book isn't just something I am going to stress out about.
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