(Topic ID: 171152)

Stern coffee table book Kickstarter?!?


By MinusWorlds

2 years ago



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  • Latest reply 21 days ago by vireland
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    There are 1621 posts in this topic. You are on page 31 of 33.
    #1501 50 days ago

    I hear you, but what a fucking embarrassment for Stern. They pushed and hyped this project that was supposed to celebrate the success of the company. Presumably, Stern’s best customers and biggest fans put up the cash to fund this pile of crap. If they don’t make this right by hiring competent people to finish the project, it would speak volumes about Stern’s integrity as a company. I may still reluctantly buy their games if they are the best option, but would definitely root for the competition if this ends badly.

    #1502 50 days ago

    But they said, "...we will meet the challenges head on and not be satisfied until the product is amazing and people get more than what they hoped for."

    They wouldn't lie, would they?

    #1503 50 days ago

    I think if Stern planned to make this right it would have happened by now. I hold them partially responsible because they added more legitimacy to the project and I know several us would not have backed this project if not for the marketing push Stern made at the Chicago Pinball Expo.
    It seems like they just want to sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. I think it is an embarrassment to them.

    #1504 50 days ago

    "Making pinball books is hard"

    We're almost officially 2 years late from their May 2017 release date. Book was announced at Expo 2016.

    #1505 50 days ago

    Because of this damn book (& the failed Gameband Atari watch) I no longer invest in any Kickstarters. The trust has been eroded.

    #1506 50 days ago
    Quoted from Backyardace:

    I think if Stern planned to make this right it would have happened by now. I hold them partially responsible because they added more legitimacy to the project and I know several us would not have backed this project if not for the marketing push Stern made at the Chicago Pinball Expo.
    It seems like they just want to sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. I think it is an embarrassment to them.

    I agree, Stern is not going to do anything to help this project at this juncture.

    I still wonder how these guys got Stern to promote them, that is not something that happens from a cold call. Joe is either related to or good friends with someone who is or was at Stern when this project started. Someone vouched for him and some this project to the powers that be at Stern.

    How do failed kick starters work? Do the people behind the failure get something on their record that they were involved in a failed project that took in funding but didn’t deliver the product? Or since they still say it’s coming one day does that mean it’s not deemed a failure?

    #1507 50 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    How do failed kick starters work? Do the people behind the failure get something on their record that they were involved in a failed project that took in funding but didn’t deliver the product? Or since they still say it’s coming one day does that mean it’s not deemed a failure?

    Good question. I wonder how many "stalled" projects there are on Kickstarter and how that would affect the real stats on how Kickstarters perform.

    #1508 49 days ago

    If they show that they ‘tried’ had ‘intent’, then no recourse from Kickstarter. It’s a trust system. With an actual electronic product they must have a working prototype before Kickstarter allows the campaign to go ahead. Perhaps they should extend this to books (have a draft at the least that is prepared). Peeps bypass this (having a prototype etc) by going to other crowdfunding sites (like indiegogo) that don’t have the same (stringent) rules.

    #1509 49 days ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    If they show that they ‘tried’ had ‘intent’, then no recourse from Kickstarter. It’s a trust system.

    Yea, I understand that aspect of it but one would think these people had their reputations on the line at least. Their reputation with the pinball community is damaged clearly but they could do this again to another community. Maybe a book on hydrofoil boats or something...

    It just seems there should be a way to document their failure to timely deliver a product (and no product of any kind for two years past the promise delivery)...this might stop a repeat of this situation from harming others. Just a thought.

    #1510 48 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Yea, I understand that aspect of it but one would think these people had their reputations on the line at least. Their reputation with the pinball community is damaged clearly but they could do this again to another community. Maybe a book on hydrofoil boats or something...
    It just seems there should be a way to document their failure to timely deliver a product (and no product of any kind for two years past the promise delivery)...this might stop a repeat of this situation from harming others. Just a thought.

    Totally agree. Only problem is that these people know how to game the system by changing their business / company names and use secondary names (when creating new products) to stifle research of their past (unscrupulous) behaviour. I’ve been burned twice now (shame on me), so no more crowdfunding.

    12
    #1511 48 days ago

    found this little gem and posted it in the comments section today. I would advise all backers to do the same
    kickstarter rights (resized).jpg

    #1512 47 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    found this little gem and posted it in the comments section today. I would advise all backers to do the same
    [quoted image]

    Hopefully enough people do it to make a statement. Not sure you will get any money back but everyone should give it a go!

    #1513 47 days ago

    For those that want to copy & paste @j_m_ 's wording into the Kickstarter comments section:

    I invoke my rights under Kickstarter's Terms of Use:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012

    "Project Creators are required to fulfil all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfil."

    I demand an immediate full refund for my pledge amount.

    #1514 46 days ago

    Everyone should try it, the more that do might pressure Kickstarter to look into it more? (Just to clarify, I emailed support@kickstarter.com)

    Here is the response I got: (Basically what I get out of it is Kickstarter doesn't give 2 shits if a "creator" steals the money)

    I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing frustration with this project.

    If you are interested in getting a refund for this project, please reach out directly to the creator. While we work with creators to help them find funding for their projects, all money raised goes directly to the creator and is managed by the creator (with only a small fee passing through Kickstarter's hands).

    To get in contact with a creator, I recommend messaging them through our platform, leaving a comment on their page, or reaching out through their social channels or website (where they might be more readily available for questions).

    Though I can't assist directly with getting a reimbursement, I am here to help. Hiccups can happen along the way when bringing a creative idea to life, but that shouldn't turn into a bad experience for you as a backer. I hope this matter is resolved soon and am happy to help if you have any other questions or concerns.

    #1515 46 days ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    Here is the response I got: (Basically what I get out of it is Kickstarter doesn't give 2 shits if a "creator" steals the money)

    They are simply staying away from having any liability. For a platform such as theirs that is to be expected.

    #1516 46 days ago

    but it's garbage like this that really makes me want to create a "south park" type kickstarter

    you know, the kind where you can donate all kinds of money and I'll promise absolutely nothing in return. the more money that you donate, the less that I'll promise to do (although considering that I'm not planning on doing anything in the first place, I'm not exactly sure how that would be possible

    I thinking about something like this:

    theendallfukitall non-event

    donate $1
    (because you have have an extra $1 in your paypal or google account and are too lazy to figure what to do with it otherwise)

    reward: absolutely nothing. not even a thank you!

    donate $10
    reward: one update where you aren't even specifically mentioned about all of the non-progress that I've made
    (this update may or may not occur sometime between 1 month and 156 months after the kickstarter has successfully met its goal

    donate $25
    reward: one update where I thank all of the people that donated $25 or more
    (but not by name because that would require more than basic effort on my part

    donate $50 or more
    reward: two updates, but one may just be random characters repeated if I happen to fall asleep at the keyboard

    bonus item for all donators
    a link to a previously posted pinside thread with an oversaturated image of joe, the non-creator of infamous 30 years of stern pinball book (that never happened
    image may or may not include some random tart joe was trying to impress at the time

    #1517 46 days ago

    It's why I will never back another Kickstarter again. Period. No oversight, No accountability. No Thanks. Stern should step on this one though, their name is all over it.

    #1518 46 days ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    but it's garbage like this that really makes me want to create a "south park" type kickstarter
    you know, the kind where you can donate all kinds of money and I'll promise absolutely nothing in return. the more money that you donate, the less that I'll promise to do (although considering that I'm not planning on doing anything in the first place, I'm not exactly sure how that would be possible
    I thinking about something like this:
    theendallfukitall non-event
    donate $1
    (because you have have an extra $1 in your paypal or google account and are too lazy to figure what to do with it otherwise)
    reward: absolutely nothing. not even a thank you!
    donate $10
    reward: one update where you aren't even specifically mentioned about all of the non-progress that I've made
    (this update may or may not occur sometime between 1 month and 156 months after the kickstarter has successfully met its goal
    donate $25
    reward: one update where I thank all of the people that donated $25 or more
    (but not by name because that would require more than basic effort on my part
    donate $50 or more
    reward: two updates, but one may just be random characters repeated if I happen to fall asleep at the keyboard
    bonus item for all donators
    a link to a previously posted pinside thread with an oversaturated image of joe, the non-creator of infamous 30 years of stern pinball book (that never happened
    image may or may not include some random tart joe was trying to impress at the time

    5457c9ae6bb3f7d33da1a6bb-750-471.jpg
    #1519 46 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    But they said, "...we will meet the challenges head on and not be satisfied until the product is amazing and people get more than what they hoped for."
    They wouldn't lie, would they?

    How's that GB code update?

    #1520 46 days ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    Stern should step on this one though, their name is all over it.

    I totally agree. They promoted this project and gave it credibility. They look like they horrible but I guess things were misrepresented to them as well.

    I still would like to know how this group got inside Stern. They clearly had a path to a decision maker at Stern. Is Joe related to someone there or someone who was there back in 2016? Does Joe or someone else at paerflock or whatever do other work for Stern or employees of Stern?

    #1521 46 days ago

    >>We have a meeting with Stern to review pages next week.

    That was in March. I wonder if Stern can confirm that they met with him?

    #1522 46 days ago

    >>but you haven't seen a pinball book like this before, we promise!

    Well he didn't lie here Haven't seen a book like it yet

    #1523 46 days ago
    Quoted from Max_Badazz:

    >>We have a meeting with Stern to review pages next week.
    That was in March. I wonder if Stern can confirm that they met with him?

    Pinsiders from the Chicago area that know employees at Stern: please poke around and see if this was true or a misrepresentation. We promise not to make you reveal your source, just give us some inside gossip as supposedly Stern was washing their hands of this last I had heard from the internet gossip train but now they claim Stern is still meeting with them. Would love to know if that meeting happened.

    #1524 45 days ago

    Their October 2018 update was regarding the Stern CDs. So Stern was giving them inside material as recently as then.

    #1525 45 days ago

    Holy crap, they've had the Stern CDs for 7 months!

    #1526 45 days ago

    I think it's all bullshit. They stole the money and ran. All the updates are fake news.

    #1527 45 days ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I think it's all bullshit. They stole the money and ran. All the updates are fake news.

    Fake news doesn't exist. It's fake or it's news. News by definition is not fake. That term drives me crazy.

    So in this case, the updates are likely lies or partial truths.

    #1528 45 days ago

    The lack of updates though is weird. I mean as messed up as this project has been they at least put out something every month. Now it's like "oh yeah I forgot about that thing". I do know Jeremy Packer made artwork for that special tier.

    #1529 45 days ago

    At least some of you received a very expensive Christmas ornament! I didn’t even get that for my $125

    If Joe was smart, he would post pictures on Facebook of him working on the book; however, where would he get those pictures?

    I think we have to accept both Joe and Stern aren’t losing any sleep over this and we are unlikely to ever see the book or the money we invested.

    #1530 45 days ago

    For those scoring at home, we hit the 2.5 year mark in April.

    Joe’s last appearance on Pinside was May 21, 2018. Nearing the one year anniversary.

    #1531 45 days ago
    Quoted from ausretrogamer:

    Totally agree. Only problem is that these people know how to game the system by changing their business / company names and use secondary names (when creating new products) to stifle research of their past (unscrupulous) behaviour. I’ve been burned twice now (shame on me), so no more crowdfunding.

    True, but when they use the same rundown Shenzhen warehouse and Hong Kong postal addresses for all four crowdfunding ventures from 2010 onwards it isn't that hard to join the dots that it is the same individual behind each one.

    Disposable cell phones whose battery explodes after prolonged use, 3d printers that break down after a month or pinball machines built on the cheap it makes no difficulty in spotting them if the same modus operandi is used each time.

    Oh wait, this is the coffee table book scam thread....carry on.

    #1532 45 days ago

    He updates the backers every month or two, the last one was less than 2 months ago. 10 updates in 2018 and 3 so far this year. If this was all some elaborate scam I think they would have just stopped posting a long time ago. I mean they said in March that they just did a photo shoot at the Vegas HOF, easy enough to verify. Why would they spend time and money on that if it was all fake?

    #1533 45 days ago

    I think Joe had good intentions in the beginning, but laziness, incompetence, and probably some hot interns have taken their toll. Making books is hard.

    #1534 45 days ago

    I think Joe needs to take more interns on vacation...

    #1535 45 days ago
    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    I think Joe had good intentions in the beginning, but laziness, incompetence, and probably some hot interns have taken their toll. Making books is hard.

    Especially if your blood is always away from your brain too many times a day to count in exotic locations.

    #1536 45 days ago

    At this rate I'm hoping we get the book before either Trump is re-elected or somebody replaces him.

    Annotation 2019-05-03 063516 (resized).jpg
    #1537 45 days ago

    If you want a pinball book - take a look at this one made in France.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dark-side-of-pinball-new-photos-book

    12
    #1538 45 days ago
    Quoted from aeneas:

    If you want a pinball book - take a look at this one made in France.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dark-side-of-pinball-new-photos-book

    Or the award-winning Pinball Magazine No. 5 with 360 pages: http://pinball-magazine.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=106
    Or Santiago Ciuffo's Pinball Book of 208 pages: http://pinball-magazine.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=102

    When I was working on Pinball Magazine No. 5 I was wondering which publication would be published first: the Stern book of PM05. By now I think PM06 may even be published before the Stern book and I still have to get started on PM06. . .

    #1539 45 days ago

    "I know people are impatient"

    Holy F, Joe!!! You are 2 years freaking past due, on a project you estimated would be completed in 7 months. It's your buyers that are impatient?

    This is what infuriates people.

    It's not:

    "I didn't know what I got myself into when I started this, but I'm committed to finishing it".

    or

    "I understand why people are upset, I would be too if I was waiting over 2 years for something that was supposed to be released May 2017"

    it's

    "I know people are impatient".

    Blame your backers. I think we could use some new Vegas trip photos, better get another trip scheduled.

    #1540 45 days ago

    Stop being so impatient guys.. it's not like they took your money or anything

    #1541 45 days ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Blame your backers. I think we could use some new Vegas trip photos, better get another trip scheduled.

    Yep, victim blaming just like JPop did. It’s amazing how people can’t take responsibility for things.

    #1542 45 days ago

    At least his name is plastered all over this on the internet. Any future investors or employers doing even a small amount of research will find piles of his history. The past can haunt you........

    #1543 42 days ago

    Just got an update:

    We want to hear from you! And we have a big update too.
    PaperFlock Inc
    May 6, 2019
    External link
    View on Kickstarter
    Hello Kickstarter Backers.

    First I want to apologize for not posting an update in April.

    But I also want to assure you we have been working hard on the book!

    We presented a full book layout to the Stern staff last month, and the feedback was good.

    But we don't want the book to be good, we want it to be GREAT!

    We got all of the layouts from the designer last month, and have been working hard to make them even better! Adding fun facts, graphics, and retouching photos to make them pop off the printed page.

    But we have been hearing a lot from backers who are frustrated with the time it is taking, and we completely understand the feeling.

    So we need to hear from you to help us decide if we should take the time to try and make everything as good as we can, or if we should just send it to the printer as is.

    First here is a graphic showing you the work we have been doing over the past weeks and months.

    On the left is the original layouts we got from the designer and on the right are the layouts we feel are greatly improved.

    Layout Comparisons

    A closer view
    (Keep in mind these are going to be large printed pages, so this small graphic may be hard to read.)

    We think it will take another month or two to get this book to where we are happy with it and ready to send to the printer. We base this estimate on the time it has taken us to rework what we have done so far and what we believe it will take to complete the remaining layouts.

    Now you may remember that in the last post I said we were 90% of the way done, and you may ask, "If you're 90% of the way done, why will it take another 2 months?" Well if you think about where we started from, which was just an idea for a book to celebrate these games and this period, we have come really far.

    We went to Stern 3 times to interview the staff, collect the stories, document as much history as we could find. Zack our writer intertwined those stories into a single flowing narrative that gives a broad view of the entire history of Stern from the start! We edited that work into a reasonable readable story that we think flows very well. We have now done 6 large scale shoots photographing dozens and dozens of machines, with a focus on detail. We have done a lot of research to collect facts about every machine. We have done layouts for every page, and retouching for every photo, including cutting out machine views for every page, some have 3! And maybe most importantly we have created a presentation format we feel maximizes every centimeter of the printed page, while still remaining clear and legible.

    We believe this is becoming a beautiful work that really shows the machines, the art, the game design, and the story of these objects we all love so much.

    So now it's up to you. We want to hear from every single backer!

    Should we keep going and complete this in the manner we know we can and make it as beautiful as we know how?

    Or should we just call it done and get the thing off the the printer?

    Here is the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/73ZHDRP

    It is only 1 question and will take only a few seconds to answer, but your response will show us the direction we need to go.

    As always thank you all so much for your support and your patience, Dameon, Joe, and the Paperflock Team

    88BC9FE1-C96B-4919-A746-D545DE495BA5 (resized).pngE95E9F46-2176-4A39-814F-1F6E28271CB6 (resized).png
    14
    #1544 42 days ago

    This is dumb.

    "Do you want a piece of shit, or a good book? Take our poll"

    You don't ask the customer this. You make an executive decision and you deliver on deadlines the best product you can. You don't show the customer what it could have been and then say "sorry we ran out of time to give you THIS".

    This poll is tainted because obviously the "ship now" examples are all turds.

    #1545 42 days ago

    The headings from the "original" layout are comically bad lmao

    #1546 42 days ago

    Obviously, the improved layouts are better...but why are the original ones so bad? Who needs a large close-up of the start button on Laser War, without a full picture of the playfield or a decent shot of the backglass. Whoever did that layout should reconsider their career choice.

    #1547 42 days ago

    Where is the improved page featuring all the hot interns on vacation?

    #1548 42 days ago

    It looks like a shitty instagram account of a photographer that doesn't know where to point the camera.

    The original layout is clearly just the rough draft of whatever they've cobbled together. I guess good on them for realizing that they should, at minimum, show the whole playfield, cabinet art, and backglass. It's simply mind blowing that it took them multiple years to figure that one out.

    Someone could hit CTRL+P on a bunch of IPDB pages and get better results. (We all know that every fact in the book is just going to crib IPDB)

    #1549 42 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    It looks like a shitty instagram account of a photographer that doesn't know where to point the camera.
    The original layout is clearly just the rough draft of whatever they've cobbled together. I guess good on them for realizing that they should, at minimum, show the whole playfield, cabinet art, and backglass. It's simply mind blowing that it took them multiple years to figure that one out.
    Someone could hit CTRL+P on a bunch of IPDB pages and get better results. (We all know that every fact in the book is just going to crib IPDB)

    I mean, they didn't even get the basics right on the original one. Like Laser War does not include a true backglass photo. Another thing, are the facts really that difficult to add? I almost don't see the point in having a book without the basic facts about each machine. The original layout doesn't even include the production numbers

    #1550 42 days ago

    The "improved" layout is really pedestrian. Super-amateur. I mean, it IS better than the original placeholder layout, but only just.

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