(Topic ID: 171152)

Stern coffee table book Kickstarter?!?


By MinusWorlds

3 years ago



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    There are 1726 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 35.
    #851 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Shouldn't they have investigated the cost before listing it as a feature?

    Sometimes you make what you think are reasonable assumptions about things that are an extension of what you already know. It seems like they just found out that the printer(s) that quoted them will charge a lot for this feature, when it can be done inexpensively overseas.

    For example, I try to print here in the US where possible, but sometimes the quotes are so outrageous, I have to go overseas to make something viable. I had a US printer literally raise the cost on a hardbound book run that was much larger than this pinball book by $4/unit just to add a number of colored bookmark ribbons. For cloth ribbons. That feature quote was more than the cost for the book itself. So that one went overseas and turned out fine with a much more reasonable cost.

    So, yeah, overseas is where this Stern book needs to go to control costs and make it as cool as a $55 coffeetable book (edit, didn't realize most of their pledges were for the low level) should be, retaining the transparent/translucent pages (hopefully they even have them designed already - I would think exploding them into layers in a compelling way would be a challenge).

    Domestic Media mail is around $5 for up to 6lbs, and the book shipper/sealing tape is $1 at the very most, so there's $49 for production of the book. For overseas printing, including delivery to the US, I would be shocked if it was more than $7/unit delivered (and likely more like $6) for a short run of 1000, even with the fancy transparent/translucent pages and a nice foil-stamped dust jacket. Unless there's some other real reason for the change, printing cost should not be a cause for cutting that feature.

    #852 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I thought the translucent pages was a given? Wasn't it on the list of features during the sales campaign?

    No it wasn’t listed as a feature at the funding level they reached. It was listed as a stretch* goal if they sold more.

    *It was Stretch goal number 2 which needed to fund $100k (almost double what they did fund). Here is a photo from the Kickstarter page

    31C1873D-E108-4F34-A42D-D4A04A40844A (resized).png

    #853 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    No it wasn’t listed as a feature at the funding level they reached. It was listed as a stretch goal if they sold more.

    Ok, good to know. And obviously the stretch wasn't achieved?

    #854 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Ok, good to know. And obviously the stretch wasn't achieved?

    Correct, I added more to the previous post.

    #855 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Correct, I added more to the previous post.

    $25k stretch for enamel pins? That seems silly. Those are ridiculously inexpensive to make and should have probably been included at the T-shirt level.

    #856 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Shouldn't they have investigated the cost before listing it as a feature?

    They did, and there were not enough backers to get to that financial level. It requires more than just finding a cheap printer in Bulgaria. It has to be conceived, designed, photographed, edited, it has to go with the flow of the book, etc etc. then they would have to research overseas vendors and review mockups, quality, approval by Stern and get them back to the US to then distribute. Asking for something like this at this extremely late stage is unreasonable.

    #857 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    $25k stretch for enamel pins? That seems silly. Those are ridiculously inexpensive to make and should have probably been included at the T-shirt level.

    Of the few kickstarters I have seen the stretch goals are no where near the cost associated to fulfill them. It seems like a money grab to me that every Kickstarter has.

    #858 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    They did, and there were not enough backers to get to that financial level. It requires more than just finding a cheap printer in Bulgaria. It has to be conceived, designed, photographed, edited, it has to go with the flow of the book, etc etc. then they would have to research overseas vendors and review mockups, quality, approval by Stern and get them back to the US to then distribute. Asking for something like this at this extremely late stage is unreasonable.

    Not asking for anything now that I know it was a stretch goal that wasn't reached.

    #859 1 year ago

    Drop Target Zine was not late on their kickstarter but produced gorgeous pinball books like 1-2 months after their kickstarter.

    #860 1 year ago

    Hey Everyone,

    Thanks for your comments.

    Yes we looked into the transparent pages, yes they are VERY expensive, and the conclusion we came to was we needed to sell a lot of books to justify the cost.
    So we know the cost at the higher quantities, but I'm not sure the cost at the lower quantity.
    But I can tell you cost per book usually goes up the lower the quantity not down, so it is probably not possible.

    When looking at a project like this you have to consider there are MANY costs associated with this process, not just the printing costs.
    The writers get paid, the editor gets paid, the photo editor gets paid, the graphic designer gets paid, each of the 3 cover artists get paid, and we also have to buy and print T-shirts, jackets, and other things.

    So our budget for printing the books, and paying everyone, and creating the other rewards is VERY tight!

    Quoted from Dbaum88:

    Drop Target Zine was not late on their kickstarter but produced gorgeous pinball books like 1-2 months after their kickstarter.

    Yes there are many other books created on kickstarter that are not late.
    I don't want to make a bunch of excuses, but telling a compelling story that covers 30 years and involves so many people is a huge task.
    And the complications with I'll say political issues only made it harder.

    So I deeply apologize for the delay, we are trying to make the best product possible for posterity, and trust me, Dameon and I did not plan to dedicate this much of our lives to this project, so we would love to have been able to deliver the book on time, it just wasn't in the cards this time.

    #861 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    And the complications with I'll say political issues only made it harder.

    Probably a good idea not to name Jody personally as a complicating factor...

    #862 1 year ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Probably a good idea not to name Jody personally as a complicating factor...

    It was not Jody, honestly.

    #863 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    It was not Jody, honestly.

    One-armed man?

    #864 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    So our budget for printing the books, and paying everyone, and creating the other rewards is VERY tight!

    Have you at least had the money invested for the past year while nothing has been happening?

    Serious question, as you could have easily made 20% in the past 12months.

    #865 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Have you at least had the money invested for the past year while nothing has been happening?
    Serious question, as you could have easily made 20% in the past 1 months.

    Or if he bought bitcoin early last year, it'd be worth $650,000 now.

    -3
    #866 1 year ago

    Ha, it has probably all been spent, "tight" budget, "these people needed to get paid" just wait for the bombshell coming soon of sorry we ran out of money and there is no book, blame "political issues" all you want. If the book was delivered on time you could have skipped all the Trudeau mess.

    You blame Stern, you say you can't talk about it, YOU took the money Joe, not Stern, you.

    #867 1 year ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    Ha, it has probably all been spent, "tight" budget, "these people needed to get paid" just wait for the bombshell coming soon of sorry we ran out of money and there is no book, blame "political issues" all you want. If the book was delivered on time you could have skipped all the Trudeau mess.
    You blame Stern, you say you can't talk about it, YOU took the money Joe, not Stern, you.

    Congratulations on your 20th post shitting all over this project and you aren't even a backer.

    You've been dying for Joe to post in this thread so you could unload all over him.

    I thought the mods have rules about "broken records"? Mods? Hello?

    #869 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    I don't want to make a bunch of excuses, but telling a compelling story that covers 30 years and involves so many people is a huge task.
    And the complications with I'll say political issues only made it harder.
    So I deeply apologize for the delay, we are trying to make the best product possible for posterity, and trust me, Dameon and I did not plan to dedicate this much of our lives to this project, so we would love to have been able to deliver the book on time, it just wasn't in the cards this time.

    joe, sorry to be a "debbie downer" again, but to be honest some of your comments are just head scratchers. I don't understand how you can act as if you and dameon are the ones telling this compelling story when neither of you are even writing the darn thing. I think that's one of things of this kickstarter (besides the lack of comments and the slipped dates and the multiple revisions that are just now happening) that truly blow my mind and had I known that from the start, I wouldn't have jumped in

    I now see how kickstarter is the only option where this could possibly work

    imagine if I were to go to victor ireland, who at one point in time was president of working designs and say "hey vic, I want to write a book chronicling your company and all of the great and crazy things that you did while there". during the first meeting, when asked even the most basic of questions, I would somehow have to explain to him that I wasn't writing the book, I wasn't editing the book or even publishing the book

    I wonder how fast I would be laughed out of the meeting?

    [edit]
    and while I understand there are "certain" things that you may not be able to discuss, you still haven't really given anyone even a "veiled" explanation why this book is so far behind schedule. had it met its original projected date, the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have even been an issue

    #870 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    Yes we looked into the transparent pages, yes they are VERY expensive, and the conclusion we came to was we needed to sell a lot of books to justify the cost.

    I was half kidding when I suggested it .... I knew you didn't hit the 100k milestone to make it happen. I remember as a kid I had a set of encyclopedia books (old school info) and there was a peel away body with all of the innards on each sheet (the muscle page was freaky). It's a cool feature, but not a deal breaker with the book.... I look forward to getting the book on my coffee table

    #871 1 year ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    had it met its original projected date, the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have even been an issue

    will be very sad if they attempt to scrub out his contributions from the book. I dont care what ends up happening, the man still made a contribution to the pinball hobby/Stern and it part of the story.

    #872 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Have you at least had the money invested for the past year while nothing has been happening?

    Serious question, as you could have easily made 20% in the past 12months.

    Serious answer. If the money is held in anything but a guaranteed principle escrow account it would be negligence.

    #873 1 year ago

    joedp Welcome back! Glad we have some communication and transparency. All the best in the home stretch.

    I am also curious about the zombieyeti art and curious if you'll be using the zombieyeti pre-done Stern wizard as illustrated in the kickstarter. Looking forward to more news as it comes out.

    #874 1 year ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    you still haven't really given anyone even a "veiled" explanation why this book is so far behind schedule. had it met its original projected date, the whole john trudeau thing wouldn't have even been an issue

    They drastically underestimated how much time it would take. I think he states that pretty clearly, without taking full personal responsibility. This is normal for Kickstarters. The only Kickstarter projects I have ever backed that were on-time are from Studio Neat. Otherwise I am still waiting for a list of projects to ship, but I have weekly or monthly updates from them and a sneak peak about how the "sausage" is made. That's part of what you pay for. Going dark was a bad move and IMO think joedp is trying to make good on the past mistakes. (no matter who is to blame for the muzzel)

    ------

    Personally I am just happy we have some communication. I backed to bring the project to life and be part of the ride.

    #875 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    will be very sad if they attempt to scrub out his contributions from the book. I dont care what ends up happening, the man still made a contribution to the pinball hobby/Stern and it part of the story.

    I agree. Also note that Trudeau has pleaded not guilty and is presumed innocent under the U.S. legal system. I’m under no illusions, though. Obviously, things look bad. Ideally, the book would acknowledge Trudeau’s contributions but address the pending charges to the extent possible at the time of publication. While uncomfortable, this is also part of the Stern story in that the situation may have resulted in changed perceptions to Trudeau’s games and design changes to pending games in Trudeau’s absence. A discussion of the situation’s impact on morale among his former colleagues would also be interesting. If Stern has editorial control, I’m guessing they will not want any of that in there, but honesty and full disclosure would make for a better book IMO.

    #876 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    honesty and full disclosure would make for a better book IMO.

    Stern management:

    Good-Fellas-Hilarious (resized).jpg

    #877 1 year ago

    Hi Everyone,

    I have been traveling for the last two days, sorry for the lack of communication.

    Some of you have reached out privately for support, thank you all, it means a lot.

    Quoted from j_m_:

    joe, sorry to be a "debbie downer" again, but to be honest some of your comments are just head scratchers. I don't understand how you can act as if you and dameon are the ones telling this compelling story when neither of you are even writing the darn thing.

    The writer is only one part of this vast team. First of all he has written what we have asked him to write based on our requests, and second we are very very very involved in the editing process, doing a significant amount of the editing myself. Editing is really where the story is formed. There is a lot of rewriting in the editing process too. And we have connected him with all of the sources that we want in the book.

    So while the individual words are not ours the overall story is definitely ours.

    Also, being that Dameon and I are not professional writers, I think that most backers will appreciate that we hired a professional writer to do the word-smithing

    Quoted from KerryImming:

    If the money is held in anything but a guaranteed principle escrow account it would be negligence.

    This ^

    We consider holding the money for this project to be a serious matter so we have created a corporation and gotten a business account in order to protect the money and make sure it is in an escrow account that can be used to complete the project even if one or both of us dies! (please don't kill us though)

    #878 1 year ago

    Hi Joe . Welcome back . The new updates are appreciated and while I understand the editing is crucial to the final book , I also am wondering where we are up to with regards to the Zombie Yeti artwork , Slash dustcover , T-Shirt art etc. ? ( wasn't it mentioned that Slash himself was to do the foreword at one point ?? ) .

    As others have mentioned before these are things that should be well under way ( or finalised ) as the delays had nothing to do with these items . As an example somebody mentioned that the "digital wallpaper pack" featuring 30 years of Stern could've easily been completed and sent out to all eligible backers .

    Be nice to get an update on the whole project as an overall .

    #879 1 year ago

    Hi Joe, thanks for the updates. Take the time that you need but just keep the backers updated on what is going on. Thanks!

    As irony would have it the only KS that has not delivered to me are finally trying to deliver now 6 years later (what a joke)! They have come out of court and can now talk about the game and how they have gone BANKRUPT. They are now looking at yet another Kickstarter and funding models to continue to make the game. They have said that refunds are not possible because they have done exactly what JPOP did. Only when the game comes out can I get a refund. While the game looks promising, I don't care what they have to say at this point and will be getting my $65 back on that nightmare.

    #880 1 year ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Hi Joe, thanks for the updates. Take the time that you need but just keep the backers updated on what is going on. Thanks!
    As irony would have it the only KS that has not delivered to me are finally trying to deliver now 6 years later (what a joke)! They have come out of court and can now talk about the game and how they have gone BANKRUPT. They are now looking at yet another Kickstarter and funding models to continue to make the game. They have said that refunds are not possible because they have done exactly what JPOP did. Only when the game comes out can I get a refund. While the game looks promising, I don't care what they have to say at this point and will be getting my $65 back on that nightmare.

    Which one was that?

    #881 1 year ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Which one was that?

    A game called "Novus Aeterno" http://www.novusaeterno.com They still have the link to Kickstarter and awards from PAX West from back in '12 displayed proudly on their website.

    #882 1 year ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    A game called "Novus Aeterno" http://www.novusaeterno.com They still have the link to Kickstarter and awards from PAX West from back in '12 displayed proudly on their website.

    If your last award was 5 years ago, probably time to give it up. Hadn't heard of this particular Kickstarter blowout. Thanks for the link.

    #883 1 year ago

    Any update joedp?

    2 weeks later
    #884 1 year ago
    Quoted from puck:

    Any update joedp?

    Been two weeks...

    #885 1 year ago

    This is just sad beyond belief. I’m so sorry for you guys. I really hope all ends well.

    #886 1 year ago

    You can't buy advertising like this.....

    20180228_231709 (resized).jpg

    20180228_231812 (resized).jpg

    #887 1 year ago

    I know that it's only been 32 days, but given joe's track record I would have hoped that he would have at least hit his "I'll post at least once a month" for the first month after

    #888 1 year ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    I know that it's only been 32 days, but given joe's track record I would have hoped that he would have at least hit his "I'll post at least once a month" for the first month after

    agreed. he is pathetic.

    Took all the money and just lip service. Always love when people screw up, come back and make refreshed promises, and then cant even keep the new promise for the first month.

    Complete joke.

    #889 1 year ago

    This and a couple other kickstarter type things I’ve tried in the past have turned me off from ever doing it again. I’ll just wait until the product exits the vaporware stage and becomes a real physical thing I can buy.

    #890 1 year ago

    since I paid by credit card, I've submitted a claim. I've also pm'ed joe (but big surprise, no reply

    #891 1 year ago

    I've got on my swim trunks but haven't jumped off the ship just yet, as Joe promised us he was really back for good this time. No reason to have any doubts, 'cause you are still out there, right Joe Hello...Joe?

    #892 1 year ago

    hmmm..

    2018-03-02 17_24_13-Stern coffee table book Kickstarter_!_ Pinside Forum (resized).jpg

    10
    #893 1 year ago

    This is such a dumb idea to use Kickstarter. The book itself may be great, but these companies are big enough to just make the damn book and sell it. No need for Kickstarter and yanking people around for this long with no promise date.

    #894 1 year ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    This is such a dumb idea to use Kickstarter. The book itself may be great, but these companies are big enough to just make the damn book and sell it. No need for Kickstarter and yanking people around for this long with no promise date.

    You have to remember this was started at the time of maximum arrogance at Stern. It was in the context of the 50th anniversary party and the Batman 66 Sle application to buy with outrageous pricing yet being delivered with no code. A book celebrating Stern, yet funded by its own customers seemed to fit in perfectly.

    #895 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    You have to remember this was started at the time of maximum arrogance at Stern. It was in the context of the 50th anniversary party and the Batman 66 Sle application to buy with outrageous pricing yet being delivered with no code. A book celebrating Stern, yet funded by its own customers seemed to fit in perfectly.

    Only because Stern customers, formerly myself included, were fucking idiots and only recently has Stern felt the hit to the pocket book. LUCI was ran out of desperation, people have wised up to Sterns bullshit in multiple areas.

    #896 1 year ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    You have to remember this was started at the time of maximum arrogance at Stern. It was in the context of the 50th anniversary party and the Batman 66 Sle application to buy with outrageous pricing yet being delivered with no code. A book celebrating Stern, yet funded by its own customers seemed to fit in perfectly.

    That's what happens when you blindly put those up on pedestals who are undeserving of the accolade and never bother to question their underlying motives.

    Quoted from tacshose:

    Only because Stern customers, formerly myself included, were fucking idiots and only recently has Stern felt the hit to the pocket book. LUCI was ran out of desperation, people have wised up to Sterns bullshit in multiple areas.

    QFT.

    #897 1 year ago

    Yep, it’s the customer fault.

    #898 1 year ago

    Absolutely.

    Reward mediocrity, then expect more of the same.

    1 week later
    #899 1 year ago

    The FUCK is going on with this thing? I feel like someone stole my money........

    #900 1 year ago
    Quoted from JoeDP:

    I do apologize about our lack of responses.
    I will now be participating in this forum now until completion.

    Last seen online 2/19

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