Seems like almost none of the kickstarters are familiar with the concepts of burn rate or runway.

It will always be a catch-up game for them as they spend not only the profits but the raw materials cash over the course of a year or two, then wonder why they don't have enough money for the actual production run.

Then they start another kickstarter, and use the money from that kickstarter to pay for the first one's overages. It's a cycle that will continue and compound until it explodes, unless someone with some business sense steps in.

This is part of the reason Kickstarter is so attractive to "entrepreneurs" over traditional funding methods. No interest, no timelines, no expectations other than customers who have been trained to go "oh, delays aren't important with kickstarters, it happens".

BLUF: There are no differences between pre-ordering pinball machines, and KickStarting this book. People never saw the difference. Pinball history rhymes again. Sometimes people have to learn mistakes through trial and error.

As I stated the dangers of this project in 2016 nearly 9 months ago at the beginning of the thread in several posts, but people decided not to listen, and I was accused being overly harsh and unsupportive, rather than be simply realistic and knowledgeable.
I included multiple examples of specific KickStarter problems, more naysay, even though I provided a host of important variables and conditions.
Go back to the first few pages of this thread, what did I and others say?
People now want refunds for a KickStarter project?

This is not a "I told you so" post.
This is not to bash to creative writers or motivated enthusiasts.
This is a cautionary warning.

This situation is no different than new attempted manufacturers using pre-order money from potential buyers to build a pinball company.
It is the same concept, and implied risks are nearly the same, if a buyer gives money direct to a starting company.
The largest difference is there is no distributor game safety net.

It does not particularly surprise me that the book and its continued delays was remains unfinished anywhere near the projected date, which has already passed.
The timeline was incredibly aggressive.

I only even perused this thread again months later after reading Jonathan's Pinball Magazine article today.
400+ posts later, and a single major update on the book?
I do feel bad for people who provided payments, especially $225 or more.

To recap again for those that were not aware, the source material was not prepared, photo archives were not ready or available, and supporting experienced writers and historians were not brought on board before the project was started, and considered afterwards.
This is not a Stern children's coloring pinball book here.
These are fairly significant warning signs, if you are going to write a history book, especially in a niche industry will only a handful of experts.

Never saw a lot of "oompapa" from Stern jumping in and supporting the project, more like a streetcar passing a crossing light, waving with a smile as they passed.
That should have been an indication of something, that I don't believe there was a lot of concern for a book with their name on it.
Very little was ever posted on Stern's website or Facebook accounts, except at the very beginning.
30th Anniversary passed quickly for Stern Army enthusiasts and the project quite literally disappeared from their interest.
Another point that did not make sense to me.
Where was that fanfare again, Stern Army supporters?
Why was there never any marketing done for this project by Stern?
Why did not Jody support the project?
Simply, because it was never their project to start with, or they had no direct interest, other than whatever potential royalties they could earn, which to this point and time is unknown anyway.

I am not sure where the writers were considering getting all the historical photos and information from anyway, so once again it did not surprise me the focus has changed direction to modern games and information that is more readily available from people that are in the industry today.

The number of people that have this historical information in their archives is smaller than people most people realize, but it is certainly not unobtainable.
I have no idea what further resources were contacted after I dropped off the whole subject with the writers, and it is still not clear at this time here, as time and effort is work is worth more than simple acknowledgement.
I do not specialize in the history of Stern/Data East/Sega games, just repair knowledge as I have owned quite a few of their titles since the 1970s.

The original concept backers should talk to Michael Shalhoub, if they want to understand the amount of work he put into his volumes and conduct a comparison, it might help have put a perspective on this adventure.
It was simply enormous task for work on his multiple books.
Alternatively, people could ask Marco Rossignoli, Richard Bueschel, Bill Kurtz, Gary Flowers, Roger Sharpe, or a host of others.
Some of the earliest books were written around the 1960s (with photos).
Some people have passed on, literally.

I state this from experience of understanding requirements of publishing of my own professional articles and thesis in other subjects such as engineering, technology, contracting, and military history, not just pinball.
Good research takes time, great books take even more time.
Independent publication is much easier than in the past, but hardbound takes some sort of proper contract.

If this historical book actually gets released perhaps someday, then maybe I will add to be my existing extensive library collection through Amazon or other rare book sources on hard to find low production or foreign pinball book titles.
There will be plenty of opportunities, I don't feel I missed out on anything.

In five months, Stern will be releasing another game beyond Star Wars, which is already under its final design phase, if people don't already know. This book project could remain in a state of perpetual motion behind in capturing the now 31 years of history, versus 30 years.

Hopefully, the cycle can be firmly broken, if there are additional future updates, if not the money is gone.

I'd say since Stern had this displayed at Expo and at their Anniversary Party, you might have a chance at some recourse if this turns into a bust...

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I doubt this think will turn into a bust, paperflock can always launch their next kickstarter for their next book and we're at the top of the pyramid so it's ok. Someone else can pick up the cash burn for the extra year of work.

It's just annoying and frustrating how it's been handled, the little communication and zero accountability, but hey, I understand that is just how things are done nowadays and I'm an old fart.

"Why was there never any marketing done for this project by Stern?"

You didnt watch the video interviews? Jesus Christ this is an extremly inexpensive risk to help fund something pretty cool. Stop painting all the supporters like rubes who don't understand the situation. Nobody's missing a mortgage payment over $100. And stop treating this project like they're building the fucking space shuttle.

Just sit there in your ivory tower with your $50 waiting to buy it if they make it. Nothing you're doing now helps anything but your already massive, flatulent and verbose ego.

It's Pinside. All they do is bitch. One second they say Dialed In! is a joke and the next they saying it's the best thing ever. I really wish the communication was better but they are working on the book and it's hard to schedule things with pinball designers when they are on personal vacations, going to pinball expos, and Pinburgh/ReplayFX.

BLUF: Taking money from others without a legitimate contract is wrong, that is the term used for an investor.
Consumers are not replacements for investors.

Money value is not the direct importance here, but the premise remains the same.
If a person cannot see the validity of the importance of marketing with a company's name on it, then I don't know what to tell you.
My opinion is unwavering for a reason, I do not flip sides.
I evaluate games based on gameplay, design, artwork, and features, not opinions.
The same goes for books, literature, and articles.
I do have a pretty good idea what "right" looks like when it comes to many things in this area of interest.

I watched the interviews, and are the same quality as the 2017 NWPAS taping which were good, but extremely short.
Designers were not providing the full documentation or the authorship for full historical book title development.
They were not writing or compiling the book either to my knowledge, unless Steve Ritchie has decided to write pinball memoirs, which no doubt would be a great idea.
Interviews do not make books, interviews provide research for books.

I have a special significant interest in pinball history and pinball books, I am not just some general pinball enthusiast passing by like a ship in the night or cantankerous old collector jumping on the bash bandwagon.
I provide pinball documentation to others for other purposes.
I have a written library for historical context of pinball games starting as early as 1932.
I would like to go further backwards, but documentation is hard to acquire pre-WW II and especially pre-WWI.
The records have been destroyed.

For interest, most of the current members of the Stern Pinball Inc. were not involved in pinball when Sam Stern created his company, many were not born, let alone the generation of separation after Harry Williams sold half his company to Sam many years before. Most people do not even know how Stern Pinball as a concept came to be a reality. I thought this was the focus of the book, where is this history coming from?
Direct from Gary Stern when he was five years old?
Even if a person fast forwards to Laser War and Data East in 1986, hardly anyone was around during the time the game was made except Gary himself, John Borg, and Joe Kaminkow. Many of the remaining designers were working for BLY/WMS with a few bits of "flip flopping", and I do not think Gary is writing the book either.

The same types of things were said about Retro LLC, Zidware, Skit B, Heighway, Dutch Pinball and other mod projects in the past, whether large or small.
Same errors in concept as this comment, this is just at a small scale.
Many times when I point things out, people had no idea it had already been done.

Until someone has conducted the research to write a book/thesis/doctorate in their lives, or they understand the work or the involvement in a publishing contract, which most here do not, there is homework required before making an announcement.
In essence, the contract was sidestepped in favor of trying to get enthusiasts to front the bill and research was considered.
Now the game is changing, as is the topic of the book.
Ignorance is not bliss here, but people want to discount it anyway.

Don't pick fights with people that try to educate.
Who really is the combatant here?
The person trying to educate to avoid the same mistake in the future, or the person that minimizes discussion against the realities of the mistake?

Even the authors acknowledged my initial words of advice publicly and privately done, out of concern, not spite, but people do not know how to differentiate the differences.

has anyone done anything about claiming fraud with their credit card companies for this project? like another kickstarter project, this is the 2nd of 3 where the item has not been delivered on time, nor have their been any updates here, on kickstarter or the paperflock.com website of forum in quite some time

in fact, joe has not logged into to kickstarter.com since june 6th, posted to his own forum since january 20th or logged on here on pinside since may 14th. I'm seeing a pattern emerging and plan to file a fraud case with my credit card company if I do not receive an acceptable reply by the end of the week from joe

Please keep us posted. Joe is great at disappearing, evidently not so good at producing...

The lack of updates is unforgivable. The delay for Kickstarter is 100% normal. Looking at everything I have backed in the last two years not a single thing was on time. Thanks J_M for reaching out. Let us know whats up.

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics You should read it and the TOS.

Yea, I was thinking about that the other day. I'm glad I didn't put in more money than I did, I almost bought a bunch of them as gifts for others...

from section 4, terms of service

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

- they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
- they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
- they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
- they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
- they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

now, you tell me if joe has managed to successfully accomplish any of the above bullet points. also, notice the one that I've bolded

here, I'll help you out:

- they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned; nope
- they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers; hell no. we were promised a sizeable update back in june which never materialized and that was the last communication
- they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised; god only knows what he's using the funds for since there have been NO updates
- they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and what communication?!?
- they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

Did Joe get back to you?

This seems like a pretty good idea. I was thinking about maybe doing the same thing.

burn_them (resized).jpg

Last update was June 20th in which he stated "So when will we finish this thing? The addition of new machines is such an amazing opportunity, and we want to take advantage of it to the fullest. This means following some of the new titles’ production through to completion sometime in September, which will put our finishing and printing sometime in October!"

I would expect an update next month or at the start of September. I wouldn't start getting out the pitchforks until then. Joe is likely on vacation or people he needs to contact are on vacation as well. Kickstarter also does not do refunds. It's more of a gambling website because you are not giving money to girl scouts who visit your door. You are giving money to strangers on the internet who you hope will deliver what they state they are going to make and it's your job to investigate the company/people involved and make a decision from there to invest or not. You are investing in the book that IS being made, they posted an update last month with an updated time table, and an excerpt from the book.

How would one know if Joe was on vacation or not, he always seems to be missing--can't always be on "vacation".

nope. no reply

lol. A year long vacation maybe.

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How about starting up a KickStarter or Gofundme campaign to sue Paperflock? That should get them and Stern's attention to just refund the original Kickstarter money since this project has failed to meet the agreed upon, at time of funding, timeline.

Radio silence

Call Stern and start bitching at them. Guilt by association. They endorsed it by having the pop up banner at eXpO and the pay to attend party.

My hope is that the silence is a good thing, but then reality kicked in.

Uh, oh. First radio silence, now puck's last post came out silent...

Nothing on my end.

Attempted to quote with photo. Photo didn't show so I removed the post. Nothing to see here. Can we change the title of the thread?

Update today:

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So it's 3 months late and 50% done.

so that means 6 more weeks of winter next year? and that the book might be completed in another 5 months? love the post-it note where they can't even spell mr. takei's name correctly (george tiaki)

edit:
I love how my avatar represents actually how I feel about this

It will make a great Christmas present. Hopefully 2017.....

Not sure The Hoff knows what the flipper buttons do...but at least you get a photo of Hoff standing in front of Baywatch.

I'm surprised they didn't mention a circuit board problem. Maybe they will at the end of September.

i am waiting for a final code update for my ACDC Premium since.. wait... WW2?
so i am totally relaxed if i get my book til x-mas ...

2017 would be cool..

Ouch!

so, while Trudeau is actually accuesed possesing CP? ( guilty or not, the man is "burnded" )
Will the book be rewritten?
another delay?
or will this be ignorded and not mentionend?

Good luck getting a straight answer to that question (or any question).

In their last update about the delay, the latest delay was so they could chronicle the latest Stern title development, and it was the title AFTER Star Wars. So could they have delayed the book to do an extensive profile on John Trudeau's latest game, since he seems to be next up? What a mess.

They should cut bait, and go back to featuring B66 as the last title in the book, the 30th anniversary game.

Or they could keep the Trudeau stuff and have the last page be his mug shot. Stern would love that.

They should keep all Trudeau stuff and cut right after the 31th anniversary.

With the Trudeau stuff this book is probably dead, they should just blame that and refund everyone. This is what happens when you delay and delay, different shit just keeps hitting the fan. If they would have been responsible stewards of everyone's money it would have been done on time. I mean WTF was the point of the delays, you could have shipped a crap book, it didn't matter, the expenses were already paid.

The delays proved the lie. All the "maybe we will sell it after kickstarter, or maybe we won't" was total BS to try and sucker people.

Stern and Paperflock wanted $50k to try and fund a possibly successful commercial endeavor for Stern's benefit. Stern as usual shifted all the risk onto their customers and will hang Paperflock out to dry when this thing never gets published.

even if the book doesn't ship? hell, if that's the case I need to start multiple kickstarters now!

promise the world, deliver nothing and not be held accountable for anything? I can't understand how that would be legal

Kickstarter is filled with failed projects. Some are straight up cons, most I suspect are just "easy money" that got blown and no way to finish it (see jpop for another example of this).

I'm astounded that many simply don't understand how Kickstarter etc type projects work. Simply amazing...

The risk is all yours. Simple as that.

I believe this book will happen because I think Stern will sort it out. They are an honorable company and would want this to work IMO.