Stern clear coats dropping in quality?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

#6 9 years ago

MCC

cooked71

Pinside member

Sydney

10y 155K 9,250 19 39

Dimples in Sterns are definitely from soft wood. My STLE had dimpling from the first game. But I find most wood in any furniture is now soft I'm guessing from being farmed and grown too quickly. Only the really expensive furniture using hard woods are not soft.

I know someone who won't open any Stern for up to 12 months to let the PF wood harden.

#7 9 years ago

MCC

cooked71

Pinside member

Sydney

10y 155K 9,250 19 39

Quoted from vid1900:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

Good call - the reason the older PF's appear not to be dimpled is that they've been played so much that in effect the whole PF is dimpled and doesn't appear like little craters.

I had a TZ PF clear coated and even the clear coat has dimpled. Im hoping that eventually it will also "even out".

#8 9 years ago

DAS

luckymoey

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 105K 2,079 44 1

Seems hit or miss in my experience. Some of the clears on my games are beautiful and others not so much. I'm more concerned though with the quality of their wood. I don't mind the dimpling, but have had problems with holes quickly showing wear.

#9 9 years ago

GAW

gawcol

Pinside member

Moorsele

9y 56,050 325 15

Until tranformers all ok (transformers is very good quality), but since then coils are too strong and playfields too soft... just a few games and your nib purchased game looks like the moon...

#10 9 years ago

Shapeshifter

Pinside member

13y 150K 10,468 8 144

Quoted from cooked71:
Good call - the reason the older PF's appear not to be dimpled is that they've been played so much that in effect the whole PF is dimpled and doesn't appear like little craters.
I had a TZ PF clear coated and even the clear coat has dimpled. Im hoping that eventually it will also "even out".

Yes and no.

The LOTR I had that new just didn't seem to dimple at all. But it was 2003, sat around unplayed for a few years. Better quality? Wouldn't surprise me.

#11 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

That's why I reclear all my sternsimage-146.jpgimage-280.jpgimage-634.jpgimage-781.jpg

#12 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

Stern clearimage-132.jpgimage-867.jpgimage-145.jpgimage-48.jpgimage-429.jpgimage-925.jpg

#13 9 years ago

DAV

turbo20lbs

Pinside member

Schaumburg, IL

14y 92,550 2,178 8

Try looking at a BBH. Worst clear coat ever. I couldn't even play mine in fear of wear, had to get it clear coated.

As for dimples, that is a "myth" that it happens to all PFs to the same degree and dimpling is all created equal. The wood that Stern has been using lately is defiantly extra cheap and extra soft (ST for example).

#14 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from turbo20lbs:
Try looking at a BBH. Worst clear coat ever. I couldn't even play mine in fear of wear, had to get it clear coated.
As for dimples, that is a "myth" that it happens to all PFs to the same degree and dimpling is all created equal. The wood that Stern has been using lately is defiantly extra cheap and extra soft (ST for example).

That is your BBH pic

#15 9 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

I must say that the stock WOZ clear job looks pretty amazing but don't know how it wears.

#16 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

Csiimage-294.jpg

#17 9 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

Quoted from tatman9999:
Csi

image-294.jpg 210 KB

WOW Tat wish you would have done my STPro I bought from you.

#18 9 years ago

BRY

Aladdin

Pinside member

11y 72,300 1,333

I was just playing the STLE at PBHOF in Vegas and was wondering if the PF even had ANY clear coat on it? Great pinball, but I immediately thought that if I owned one, I'd get it clear coated.

#19 9 years ago

JGI

John_I

Space Coast Pinball

19y 179K 9,076

Quoted from Aladdin:
I was just playing the STLE at PBHOF in Vegas and was wondering if the PF even had ANY clear coat on it? Great pinball, but I immediately thought that if I owned one, I'd get it clear coated.

Its probably just filthy.

The clear on my STLE is the best I have gotten from them so far. It is not too thin like some games from years ago. There are enough coats to protect and make it flat but not too thick. Side-by-side I think it looks flatter than WOZ. WOZ is a little too thick (and uneven) for my taste.

#20 9 years ago

DAV

turbo20lbs

Pinside member

Schaumburg, IL

14y 92,550 2,178 8

Quoted from John_I:
Its probably just filthy.
The clear on my STLE is the best I have gotten from them so far. It is not too thin like some games from years ago. There are enough coats to protect and make it flat but not too thick. Side-by-side I think it looks flatter than WOZ. WOZ is a little too thick (and uneven) for my taste.

Agreed, the clear on STLE is pretty nice.

#21 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from gawcol:
just a few games and your nib purchased game looks like the moon...

Totally normal.

#22 9 years ago

DAV

turbo20lbs

Pinside member

Schaumburg, IL

14y 92,550 2,178 8

Quoted from vid1900:
Totally normal.

Normal to the degree of the latest Sterns with soft ass playfields. I believe Mirco repros are similar. Other games (older) will not dimple so severely so easily.

#23 9 years ago

PEN

Inactive member

Bloomfield Hills, MI

12y 67,150 4,237 4 18

Im more concerned with the lack of traditional lockdown mechs, back box mechs, and playfield supports, but yes the clear on my TWD was the worst of any NIB game I have had. The grain in the shooter lane is bare wood.

#24 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

http://t.homedepot.com/p/product/204311241/?showPLP=false

Quoted from turbo20lbs:
Other games (older) will not dimple so severely so easily.

Not really true at all.

I have lots of NOS playfields, some that are over 40 years old.

They dimple like a SOB, that's just how it goes.

Of course wood can vary from tree to tree, but the general Janka hardness for hardwood species has remained consistent for over 200 years. There are some softwood species that become radically harder as they age, but of course Maple is not one of them.

#25 9 years ago

JMS

swampfire

Pinside+ Addict

12y 168K 13,602 48

Quoted from tatman9999:
Csi
image-294.jpg 210 KB

Ha, I thought I was the only one who loved CSI enough to clear it. Nice...

#26 9 years ago

JOL

JoelOmatik

Pinside member

Miami, FL

10y 50,650 880

Here is red oak 5-ply from Home Depot. It's online only, not in store. Anybody have experiences with this? How would it compare to standard maple/birch?

#27 9 years ago

ROB

RobT

Pinside member

13y 129K 21,266 3 40

OP
Quoted from onetaste:
I'm researching IMVE & I've noticed quite a few complaints about dimples

#28 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-now-has-a-widebody-belt-sander#post-1950266

Quoted from JoelOmatik:
How would it compare to standard maple/birch?

That stuff is garbage.

For pinball you need a thick face wood layer and matching hardwood core, not a paper thin veneer face with SPF core.

The Maple "lumbercore" stuff that modern playfields are made out of is only made by a few manufacturers in the world - you will never find it at Lowes or Home Depot.

If you have a real lumber yard around Miami, they will have Baltic Birch plywood. It will have no voids and be made of 10 layers with thick, sandable faces.

That is a quality plywood, and since it's real Birch (not a paper thin veneer over SPF core), it's very hard and heavy.

#29 9 years ago

ARS

Robotoes

Pinside member

Rutland, VT

9y 48,650 1,250

Quoted from JoelOmatik:
Here is red oak 5-ply from Home Depot. It's online only, not in store. Anybody have experiences with this? How would it compare to standard maple/birch?
http://t.homedepot.com/p/product/204311241/?showPLP=false

See Kevin's post here for pretty much all you ever wanted to know about PF boards:

#30 9 years ago

DAD

playernumber4

Pinside member

Macomb, MI

12y 68,550 2,438 5

There was a pic posted just before the Chicago Expo showing the end view of a Big Lowbowski playfield. I counted the layers of wood and there were 3 or 5 layers more (can't remember exactly) than my Stern games.

I was impressed.

#31 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

More layers can be good for plywood, but it also makes the shooter lane look weird.

Here is a pic from HEP with the Mirco MM playfields:

HEP MM Mirco.jpg

#32 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

My LOTR LE play field is still incredible. Maybe Stern had a bout of sympathy for us?

#33 9 years ago

DAD

playernumber4

Pinside member

Macomb, MI

12y 68,550 2,438 5

I think more layers would make it look even prettier! Kinda of like some of the custom gunstocks from years ago when craftsmanship was so important.

#34 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from iceman44:
My LOTR LE play field is still incredible. Maybe Stern had a bout of sympathy for us?

Don't forget it's not Stern making those playfields.

The playfields are actually made by CCC (aka Chicago Gaming), the same company that used to make playfields and cabinets for Bally and Williams.

#35 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from vid1900:
Don't forget it's not Stern making those playfields.
The playfields are actually made by CCC (aka Chicago Gaming), the same company that used to make playfields and cabinets for Bally and Williams.

Ahhh yes, well they did a great job on the Lotr Le's, must be an extra layer of clear?

#36 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from iceman44:
Ahhh yes, well they did a great job on the Lotr Le's, must be an extra layer of clear?

Not necessarily an "extra" layer, but it could have been well taken care of all it's life.

i.e.: New balls on a regular basis, waxing on a regular basis...

#37 9 years ago

RIK

Rick432

Pinside member

Joliet, IL

11y 61,800 1,554 16

Sheesh, tat, you live in Plainfield?

I've got to have you give my LOTR and TSPP a proper clearcoat here in Joliet...
...but I don't have a rotisserie, and am too lazy/stupid for all the work involved.

Nice pics!

And yes, OP, my LOTR and TSPP have miserable clearcoats. My ACDC and SM, i would say have adequate clearcoats. My Monopoly too, when owned one (shudder).

So far WOZ looks good, but I have a playfield protector on.

#38 9 years ago

MCC

cooked71

Pinside member

Sydney

10y 155K 9,250 19 39

Quoted from tatman9999:
That's why I reclear all my sterns

Hey tatman9999, do you ever get any problems with craters in the clear coat after playing? Ie. they look amazing (like your photos) before being installed and played, then after a few air balls look like the moon?

#39 9 years ago

KHS

ZenTron

Pinside member

Concord, NC

10y 104K 2,292 3

Don't new pins come with the majority of there playfields covered in mylar?

#40 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from ZenTron:
Don't new pins come with the majority of there playfields covered in mylar?

Not since F-14.

#41 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from cooked71:
Hey tatman9999, do you ever get any problems with craters in the clear coat after playing? Ie. they look amazing (like your photos) before being installed and played, then after a few air balls look like the moon?

They seen to be no worse then sterns clean.

#42 9 years ago

RSG

tatman9999

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Rick432:
Sheesh, tat, you live in Plainfield?
I've got to have you give my LOTR and TSPP a proper clearcoat here in Joliet...
...but I don't have a rotisserie, and am too lazy/stupid for all the work involved.
Nice pics!
And yes, OP, my LOTR and TSPP have miserable clearcoats. My ACDC and SM, i would say have adequate clearcoats. My Monopoly too, when owned one (shudder).
So far WOZ looks good, but I have a playfield protector on.

Take them apart and I can clear them.

#43 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

Quoted from vid1900:
Not necessarily an "extra" layer, but it could have been well taken care of all it's life.
i.e.: New balls on a regular basis, waxing on a regular basis...

Well it was my first pin, a Nib at that, so what does new balls and waxing on a regular basis mean.

How many games usually Vid? It seems my other pins need more TLC and I played the shit out of Lotr for quite a while. Don't fire it up as much nowadays though.

#44 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/tools-and-supplies/245-premium-pinballs

Quoted from iceman44:
How many games usually Vid?

No way of saying.

A nicked ball can do more damage in a day than a year of normal wear.

#45 9 years ago

TAM

tamoore

Pinside member

Grayling, MI

11y 123K 6,661 37 58

Quoted from vid1900:
Don't forget it's not Stern making those playfields.

Nope... It's just Stern specifying how the playfields are made..

I'm sure how many plys, and what wood is used impacts the price Stern pays....

#46 9 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

Quoted from iceman44:
How many games usually Vid?

I don't have a firm answer but was surprised how beat up pinballs get after 100 games. See link below for photos.

#47 9 years ago

DRM

iceman44

Pinside+ Pro!

http://shelllumber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SHELL-Catalog_small.pdf

Quoted from vid1900:
No way of saying.
A nicked ball can do more damage in a day than a year of normal wear.

Those little bastards, I need to check my balls more frequently, when I clean my rubbers and swiffer my play field. Oh yeah!

#48 9 years ago

JOL

JoelOmatik

Pinside member

Miami, FL

10y 50,650 880

Quoted from vid1900:
If you have a real lumber yard around Miami, they will have Baltic Birch plywood. It will have no voids and be made of 10 layers with thick, sandable faces.
That is a quality plywood, and since it's real Birch (not a paper thin veneer over SPF core), it's very hard and heavy.

Gotcha. Here's a place that sells all kinds of hardwoods and acrylic and ply woods. If you check page 17-19, it has various plywoods. Would any of these suffice?

#49 9 years ago

JMS

swampfire

Pinside+ Addict

12y 168K 13,602 48

Geeze people. Just clean and wax your games regularly and you won't have to obsess about clearcoat thickness. ::ducks::

#50 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member