Agreed

Oh, the mighty ST got edged out by BM66. I agree and would've voted that way, but didn't see round two in time to vote.

C'mon, LOTR fans. Let's see this thing through!

How did the turd that is Guardians beat Star Wars?

I’ll get flamed for this, but the answer is simple. Star Wars is a bastard red headed step child in this neck of the woods. It doesn’t have any dolls, therefore is an abomination of life. Pinsiders would rather watch a movie from start to finish while they play pinball without any aspiration or creative kinetic energy (i.e. guardians) than take 10 minutes to understand SW. I own 2 of the top 8 games in this battle Royale (soon to be top 4 - IMDN and ACDC) and still prefer SW; it’s soooo good. But I do get it, majority of folks care more about art and dolls than gameplay and rules.

Beatles is slightly better than Striker Extreme. Aside from that, it’s the biggest embarrassment in pinball in 25 years.

No, that would be Thunderbirds. But I guess this is a Stern only thread. lol

This is what I think of SM/ST and Tron not being in the final 8.

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Or maybe pinball is highly subjective and people that disagree with you aren't just lazy doll lovers? I will submit if you really think it's just a lack of toys that keep SW from a more broad based appeal that you might be too good of player to really understand how the rest of us judge machines. I'm really enjoying SW on location, but I can definitely see why others would not like it at all. Lots of 100MPH drains off of successful hits, auto plunge drains, a multiball that is activated by smashing a lockdown button like a mad person. Not to mention, deep but almost incomprehensibly weird rules. For example, I've increased my scores exponentially (well not exponentially, but a lot) by choosing Leia. Why? Where is this explained in the game? It's not in the tiltforum rule sheet that I can see -- I just heard about it in a podcast.

Lots of great stuff about this game too (despite the above I think about buying one all the time). The shots feel awesome --as good as any game I've played when it's flowing. I also think it nails the theme personally. The rules while off in some respects are fantastic in other ways that really shine in a home environment (this is a problematic location game in my opinion).

So I'm fine with people loving the game -- but to state that the only reason someone could dislike this game is because they are a typical pinsider moron (or whatever you said) is just ridiculous beyond belief.

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Those are more than Very fair points. I don’t think I called anyone a moron for not liking it. But for the most part, from what I’ve heard of people who don’t like the game is that 1. They say the game is barren (which it is) so they discredit it for that and 2. They don’t get the rules. So rather than understanding the game, they just say it sucks.

Now it can be a brutal game, but so can other top tier games (acdc, Twd). I think setup does play a roll, as does all pinball. I’ve played location SWs (mainly LEs) where I get constant plunge drains. I’ve had my personal SW give me SDTM from the horseshoe, made a slight adjustment, and I’m good.

The ruleset is unorthodox. And I understand and respect people not liking the game for that and was kind of the point of my post (GOTG vs SW). Guardians is simple to follow, chase flashing arrows while a movie plays in the background. Collect enough of them, and you complete the mode. SW is much more different, and is why I hated it so much at first too - it is not intuitive. And that is another reason why it’s hated around these parts. A lot of great games take time before people appreciate them and that mainly is why SW loses a lot of vs. battles.

On the subject of Leia. I too heard from a podcast (probably the same one) that you get bonus points for just lighting a mission with her. I haven’t looked into that but am intrigued to try. It opens up just another method of breadth this game offers; that should be a good thing. The other misunderstanding with Leia is that she scores higher in multiball. The truth of that is her multiplier ‘minimum’ doesn’t go below 5x (I believe it’s 5x anyway, gotta double check that). So whether you’re at 20x with Leia or Han or like, etc... you’ll be scoring the same. Personally, I enjoy luke and coming out of a multiball with 40x and going into LSD for a chance at a cool 2 bil.

All in all; I do believe SW needs support and polish in the code dept to make it more understandable and easier to follow. But games like this make it a great home game for some; the flip side is that it is easily hated for the same reason. Didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings - I understand the hate; I just enjoy watching people do a 180 on SW, much like I did, and Start to appreciate all the rules and effort that Dwight and his team put into it. That said, and to show that I am critical of SW too, I do think SW has one of the worst LCD implementations for a player that stern has ever done (next to Guardians and AS).

I tend to agree with this. I would definitely have ST and Tron in my Top 8, as well as IM.

I would take out Batman 66, TSPP, and DP.

Traitor!

Star Wars isn't my favorite game by any means. I consider it a decent game and the theme boosts it up some for me. It is my most brutal and fast game. That is not my favorite type of pin (I like widebodies with a ton of flippers and targets and unique mechanics like WOZ, JJPOTC and TZ) but I like the variety it provides and it does what it does very well and in a mostly enjoyable fashion. Guardians has what appears to be a decent fan layout and looks reasonably pretty but the terrible actor voices and lame code ruined it for me very quickly. It was my fastest turn around pin. And it was fairly new at the time that I got it and I was the third owner. Maybe updated code will fix it? I only bought it because my wife wanted it and when the wife says she wants you to buy a pin, you do it. Her favorite games remain MM and LOTR, BTW.

Nope, he nailed it!!! BM66 will win it all!!!!!

I’d like to weigh in on Star Wars, a game I actually think is good but not great...

1. Yup, I do like art and dolls. I admit it. Ironically there is no theme I can think of that screams for dolls more than Star Wars, and the delta between what one would reasonably expect and what was given here is striking.

2. Gameplay. It would be unfair to call SW clunky BUT it is on the clunkier end of Ritchie’s otherwise non-clunky games. From the plunge to a brick wall and too often left outlane, to the brick wall in general, to the left ramp Death Star shot, to the need to set up the game perfectly so there are no horseshoe SDTMs. A lot of the game has really good flow, but not Star Trek level flow.

3. I love deep and complex code, and prefer it. I don’t love 40x multipliers and probably never will. Just a preference.

All this is to say SW is a decent game, but if you’re looking for reasons it’s not a Top 8 Stern they are there.

COMPLETE horseshit -- Deadpool doesn't touch Spiderman.

I now have to wonder about the poll participation: mostly new players?

You have a tiny sample of all people who actually play the games. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was heavily skewed to new players. So the result might not mean very much at all.

I’m not new. Ive owned 3 SM’s - 2 original, 1 SMVE. I much prefer DP; more to do, not as repetitive, better art, more call outs, better voicework, better code, amazing soundtrack, lots of attention to detail, better display, more satisfying shots. Only department SM is better in is flow.

Not all new games are great; and a lot are cookie cutter. DP is none of those, you should give it a chance, you might be surprised.

I think this whole thing is intended to be fun. Not to come to some firm conclusion of "best evah" that everyone has to agree with. Just people choosing games they like most. Not sure why some are taking it so seriously.

I will judge the process by the winner of the battle royale. If I agree with the winnner, then best process ever. If I don't, then it is complete bullsh*t.

GOTG is light-years better than it was when first released and the Cleland sound package fixes all the crappy voice actors in it. I think it's a lot of fun right now.

LOTR (designed by the same guy who did Deadpool and Batman66) is pretty much just as "clunky" as TWD.

Looks like Met is going all the way!

Ehhh, I think IMDN might be better...

This is lining up with the popular games on Pinside, guessing MET will win, but they are all great. I’d be interested in another poll of highly ranked players, like Karl DeAngelo, Bowen Kerins, RotorDave, etc. I bet the results would be surprising.

You want to be mad at the price or the art, have at it, I will most likely agree with you. But they took a good layout, and gave it some nice additions which are supported by good rules. It's a good playing game which to me trumps most all other things.

Funny how there are always complaints when Stern releases another music pin, yet here we are with 3 out of 4 music pins........

LOTR beat TWD?!?!?!?

W.....T......F!?!?!?!?

Poll is now completely worthless.

Only number one from old ratings. Back then they were comparing it to Roller Coaster Tycoon and Wheel Of Fortune.

In any case RBION would have beaten everything so the poll is still worthless.

I thought we already established that you blew it and were too lazy to fix it.

A lot of shitty players are voting I suspect.

If this comes down to LOTR vs MET, I just don’t know what to do. I consider them two of the best games ever made. The way I rate games usually has a grouping of games at the top. Games I consider worthy of being called the best games ever made. My heart will want to give it to LOTR, but my head will want to give it to MET. That will be a tough choice.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

What if acdc advances past lotr?

If lotr and acdc were sitting beside each other I'd play acdc everytime

This poll page doesn't generate a horizontal scroll bar for me. Worthless.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank our OP @FalconPunch for this enjoyable thread. I think it has been fun, and despite some posters complaining and wishing for other brackets and/or pins in the bracket...I think it has opened up some real thought processes about games that go beyond the norm and which make us ask WHY we like a certain pin and WHAT it is exactly that makes us feel that way.

Our OP also took the time to set up this bracket on a separate web page, and he has diligently kept up with it.

Thank you.

I agree that it was very fun and enjoyable to vote.

nothing is done will please everyone. Like do we put BK in? Do we forgot RBION?

needless to say that one or two pins left out in the middle would have put different pins against different other pins and have (maybe) different outcomes.

I think the top 4 pins from the ranking are the top 4 left. My only view was that some of the top 8 did not make it to top 8 such as ST or SM and they lost out by the thinnest of margins like 2 votes on the H2H matchup and maybe if they were seated differently due to BK or Rbion included we might have had a different top 8.

anyhoo fun poll that reinforces the top 4 made it to the top.

I just wanted to ask Falcon how he was able to make a bracket. I was going to see about doing a similar bracket with maybe other pins but can't figure out how to make it work. Seems like just make a simple poll on the website.

Never mind, I found the bracket area.

Actually those two pins compliment each other extremely well. One brutal, punishing pin next to one that has longer ball times. Very different pins, both great in their own right.

I'd get tired of AC/DC kicking my ass, so playing LOTR would provide a nice break from that.

I Just want to say that nowhere is the difference between Australian and American humour (and spelling lol) more obvious than on an online forum.

The poll was awesome, the podcast is awesome, FalconPunch is awesome. Debating the results is awesome. Everything is awesome.

Well, except that FalconPunch left the podcast.

And he forgot RBION.

Avengers got the least votes with 27...doesn’t that mean it’s the worst game?

Or that its opponent was OP Same goes with Nascar vs Lotr , no match..

I have all of the final 4. All great games. It's interesting that 3 of the 4 were music pins.

Here would be my breakdown, in no particular order.

LOTR - best theme integration, callouts, wizard mode, maybe the most memorable of the 4, super long ball times

MET - best toys/features

IMDN - most shots, best layout, 4 flippers

AC/DC - my favorite music of the music pins. Ramps are butter. Shorter ball times vs the other 3, which can be very long playing.

TWD would be my #1 though.

If it was LOTR vs maiden I might have a hard time deciding but against Met it's LOTR for the win easily.

I own both of the final two. Metallica has the better gameplay. LOTR has the better immersion into the theme. Of course, I'll have to go with LOTR. TO WAR!!!

Looks like this is going to end up remarkably close to how they are in the Pinside top 100 list. For top 4 anyway.

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I really like Lord of the Rings, but it just lacks that one more game feeling as that one more game could be 45 minutes plus. This was also the reason I sold TSPP. Great games, but ball time kills it for me. Met all the way.