(Topic ID: 197082)

Stern Bashing. Justified?

By erak

6 years ago


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    #26 6 years ago

    The problem for Stern is the lack of communication and interaction with their customer base making it appear that they really don't give a F.

    Which is not good because you know they do

    BM66 is a great example. Big fanfare for 25th anniversary game, code updates every two weeks, etc etc.

    Now it's crickets on code. Why let the anger and frustration fester.

    I don't care what anybody says, they make great fun pinball machines. Do they have issues? Sure, because they manufacture a shit load of pinball machines

    Tell me where else are you going to buy a Nib pin for $5200? That's right no F ing where

    #27 6 years ago

    As for the PFs chipping

    Hop on over to the JJP DI threads and see what's going on

    Pay $8-$9k for the overblown "tank" and see what happens when you go to sell it

    Just like TH, DI's will be selling in the mid $6k range when enough of them get out there

    So does it really matter? Nope, not in a HUO environment

    -1
    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    You could if other manufacturers dropped their quality and features.
    Problem is stern has followed others who use the charge more/get more formula when stern quality has went down/cut instead of improved.

    Why doesn't JJP? Not because they don't want to it's because they can't compete at that level and volume. Maybe one day

    Once again, the perceived quality you think you are getting from others ain't going to translate when you go to sell it. So I see no extra value there

    People don't put the extra value that some do on "extra quality" and "features"

    They put it on fun factor value. That's why Stern still makes 50 pins a day.

    Yes they have issues and problems. To bash them and ignore the PF chipping JJP has is a bit hypocritical to me

    #32 6 years ago

    How much value do people give to "mods" when you go to sell a game? Exactly....Nobody gives a shit except the seller

    I'm buying an AFMLE that should arrive by end of the month

    They say it's a tank. That's not why I'm purchasing it. The game kicks ass!

    And yes I expect to lose $$$ on it when I go to sell it. Just like every other pin out there for the most part

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    What happened to " Im not buying anymore pins unless something sells first".

    Well SW never came so AFM replaced it!

    Another pin I never thought I'd buy. Light show , call outs and topper pulled me in on top of great game and wait for it............it's built like a tank and the quality is off the charts good

    #42 6 years ago
    Quoted from TxJay:

    Give me a break here...your JJP bashing is just getting ridiculous. Look, I understand your team just got embarrassed at home and you are pissed, but that doesn't mean you should get on Pinside and troll.

    Yeah, that was pitiful. Truth is they suck

    Truth is JJP pf chipping sucks too.

    No need to be a hypocrite here

    I could bash JJP for the next 1000 posts and it wouldn't even come close to the positive ones I've made in the past

    #45 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Afm is a great pin I bought one for $1800 about 5 years ago. I sold it for $10000 and bought a CC.

    Say what! When r u selling that CC James?

    Did you report that capital gain on your taxes?

    #50 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    That's because that's their model. That's how they have operated for decades. It "works" for them. They are not a forward thinking company. At one time, yes. Now, no.
    They don't want to deal with the BS that comes with selling an inferior product. That's why they won't go direct. Let the distros hammer it out. And it's not like they even treat their distros well anymore. Stern Army, ha! More like hang your distros out to dry while Stern collects the money.
    I do enjoy some of their products but I don't have to like them as a company and the direction they've chose.

    I'm gonna point out the other side of the coin too.

    Why don't more distros sell JJP pins?

    Because anytime JJP wants to raise cash all they have to do is undercut their own on a direct sale.

    They have done it before. At the same time requiring big purchase commitments

    If you think there isn't a raft of BS that JJP deals with too on a per capita basis then you ain't paying attention

    Point is you can bash Stern all day long. The rest of em deal with the same shit

    Stern just sells THOUSANDS of more pins than everybody else

    #53 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    Thousands of lessor quality games, your right.

    Sorry but you can't justify a $9k pin purchase based on quality. I get the effort though

    #56 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Some mods add value. PDI glass. Color DMD. Eli ramp mode on Tron. Some toppers. Etc.

    I agree with that. Hopefully a zero sum game

    #57 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    You cant, I can.

    Whatever floats your boat. Our Woz and your TH prove my point.

    See how much value you have now post Nib

    "Well I'm planning on keeping them forever"

    That's great and I'd like to see somebody ever wear out any pin in a HUO environment.

    The guy that works on my pins has been in coin op since the 70's and thinks all the new stuff is shit and certainly not made for routing

    #60 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Of course there are two sides. I get that but Stern really has some glaring issues. As does JJP. The difference I see is JJP wants to figure them out. Stern doesn't seem to give a shit. Whether they do or not is almost irrelevant. It's how the consumer feels that matters and you can't tell me consumers aren't getting fed up.
    Stern does some things well. They seem to know how to work the licensing angles. That is important for sure. If they can work the value and quality issues at I'd be ecstatic.

    Totally agree. More and more customers are getting pissed. Myself included, but due to code and lack of communication.

    Sterns wounds are self inflicted. If Zach doesn't change things dramatically from a marketing and communications standpoint then I'll agree, they don't give a shit.

    Let's see what happens. All I'm saying is Stern isn't the devil and still seem to be growing sales due to great titles.

    That tide can turn on a dime. I dropped my SWLE order and someone else scooped it right up

    For all of the complaining they are selling a shit ton of pins

    #63 6 years ago
    Quoted from mountaingamer:

    Yawn..... as usual you have to comment on everything JJP no matter the topic.
    Sterns got years on everyone else so they can make more games per day - well no shit. Too bad they aren’t years ahead in terms of craftsmanship and value or we wouldn’t have this thread.

    No need to get butt hurt. I don't know why the JJP sycophants can't get both sides

    Well that's why I guess. I used to be that guy

    I like to have a real discussion. Not a one sided one. As opposed to starting a bash JJP thread

    #67 6 years ago

    Lets have Fremont and Smoke weigh in. They both Op

    #70 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Valid. I'm hoping they right the ship with Iron Maiden. What I don't understand is why not keep the pro line as your lower end. When you get into the premium and LE models why not also increase build quality as well as add toys etc.? Then everyone is happy. This isn't that hard to do either. Happy customers mean more sales. I know they can do it.
    Flip side is if JJP figures out how to get into that $5k range and can get some good licenses Stern could be in for a fight.

    I think/hope they have learned their lesson.

    1000% the premium/LE needs to have a lot more meat on the bones. I bet GOTG will be different. If not, more people will be pissed even though a great theme

    Just because Stern has dropped the ball in some areas doesn't mean they can't and won't pick it back up

    I would imagine it takes a long time to ramp up to make 50 pins a day with employee knowledge and experience but JJP will get there eventually

    Competition is a great thing

    #79 6 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    There's a great story behind why. You should ask Gary himself the conversation he had with Stern disties when JJP was formed

    I've asked a few that don't why not.

    And I know one that does and how he got F Ed in TH debacle

    I don't consider Jack or Gary as pillars of truth

    Some people have blinders on

    #90 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Why don't Stern distributors sell JJP pins?
    From what I heard when Jack was pushing WOZ was that Gary would not allow anyone who sold JJP pins to sell Sterns. He refused to sell to them.
    Correct or not?

    Well that would be stupid on his part and if Jack likes anything he loves a sale no matter where it comes from.

    Why would a distro commit to six figure purchases when I could walk into JJP with $10k in cash and walk out with a DICE

    Not that I would, just sayin

    #92 6 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Stern has been pretty clear in the past that they don't like for there vendors to carry other games. Some of the biggest get away with doing whatever they want since they buy so many games. That's why you see so many jjp distros that carry cgc and other non stern pins.
    Seems like stern might finally be letting this go a little though as flipnout just became a stern distro.

    If you aren't selling Stern games, with their volume, it makes a little tough for the few big ones that do for JJP

    Profit matters

    I'd love to support those guys and sure I will one day when they put out another theme I like

    As for what Aurich said, disregard it and buy what you like. Nobody needs anybody telling them how to spend their $$$

    #98 6 years ago

    Ok, since my college football season is over on game 1 I'm pulling the tarp off of my unloved Woz for the first time in several months.

    Omg, the build quality is unreal!

    I might donate it to the high school football team to use as a blocking sled.

    Seriously, great pin, need to install witch mod i bought 3 months ago.

    #99 6 years ago
    Quoted from mountaingamer:

    It's getting deep around here

    How about asking for "final payment" before they even reveal what the CE looks like! What a joke that is.

    If they actually sold two dozen of those i'd be shocked. I mean people that actually follow through with the sale now

    All of sudden, the distros have found a few CE's

    Can you justify that one Spencer? Why not get the $12,500 CE, I'm sure its worth it, all that extra $3500 of quality oozing out of it.

    #105 6 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    It's not worth it at all just like sterns stupid super le wasn't worth it. People still buy them though so you can blame a company for milking it for all it's worth. Heck, none of Stern's recent LEs are close to worth it. Buy a premium and miss out on nothing.

    Yep, but the jig is up and I think they all know it. Stern has to bring some major upgrades to the premium/LE line to be competitive.

    While i love my TWD, GB, BM66 and AS LE's, I'm getting an AFMLE that is actually a real LE.

    All of this after ST and i said I'd never buy another LE unless the theme hit me. Well those 4 did, that's what Stern is great at.

    But i backed out of my SWLE and i get how people can like it, Ritchie isn't for me, bring on Elwin.

    Remember, Stern lied/misrepresented that there wouldn't be any PREMIUMS on TWD so we all bought the LE. Then i love the art on GBLE and ASLE and BM66 boutique.

    They gotta bring some MUCH bigger value going forward. I think they will certainly try.

    #112 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cybergoonie:

    Stern isn't going to up their QC game unless we collectively stop opening up our wallets like Zombies to pay for the next subpar blinky lightboxes. Cracked & or split cabinets on a NIB pin...Ghosting inserts...crappy cost cutting...etc... Ridiculous. I'm done.

    Here is your problem, MOST people aren't experiencing the subpar blinky light boxes yet. Way overblown rhetoric and BS.

    People don't spend $8k on zombie like decisions.

    You may not like it or agree with it but most don't think its chump change.

    There are other options, a $6k TNA is a good one, OR pick an after market bargain.

    #117 6 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    The playfield, cab and decal issues are real bummers.

    I haven't experienced that at all on my BM66LE or ASLE. In fact, my ASLE pf, cab, decals and artwork are as good as any pin i have owned across the board.

    The sound and video on the Spike system is phenomenal. I really don't know what the F people expect.

    My GBLE has two very minor ghosting inserts.

    I just played my Woz, love it, pf quality sucks by comparison, cab and decal are FAR superior, so what.

    #120 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    That's so confusing about some of the issues. Why is AS almost perfect with no issues but then a noticeable uptick of issues with SW? I get different manufacturers but are they changing things that drastically from run to run?

    I know, don't get it either. My BM66 pf is like my ASLE pf and yet SW issues are cropping up again.

    They need to resolve this. I backed out of SW because of it, and glad i did.

    #121 6 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    My AS is awesome, SW playfields are crap again and with it you get a notice stating that it's normal. It's like they knew the playfields had issues so slap on a disclaimer and send them out anyway. Very strange that AS is good and the next game is issues all over again.

    Well, did they use up the last batch of shit pf's on Star Wars? After making sure they used the good ones on AS?

    Who knows, but they better get their shit together before GOTG comes out.

    #125 6 years ago

    You are making my point again Spencer.

    Whether you like the pin or not, quality is worth zero when you go to sell it. It didn't translate into retention of value, just like Woz and DI to come. It's about the fun factor

    I turned on my Woz last night for first time in months. It's an amazing pin, looks great, fun

    It's a heavier blocking sled. Direct print cab is a beauty. PF is lesser quality than all of my Stern pins. That's where the ball rolls around

    Kudos to JJP for developing fine pins. I hope they make another theme I like one day and if I had TH I'd trade it in for a DI too or AFMR

    #128 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    As for retention of value, I'll sell my Hobbit for more than I paid.

    No way. Unless you bought it in the mid $6k range

    And you would be the ONLY one

    As for my Woz PF it has scoop chipping and wear in tree pops. No comparison really. No hahahaha about it

    #133 6 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Some people here don't even know how to change a lightbulb but can write a fat $8000 check. You can bet I'm charging for the time it takes me to put one of those Cliffys in. Like the Mystery Hole on BSD, that takes removing all the ramps to do. Think that shit is going to be free...?
    Bwhahahahahahhaha. No. It's not. I'm putting a solid $100 for the cliffy plus install time. And now that I think about it, I haven't had a single issue selling either of my previous BSDs.

    Haha yep, some people can change a lightbulb and don't need to F with a Cliffy.

    Takes 1 minute to drop in a one penny self adhesive felt piece that works as good or better.

    #157 6 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    ok, i have not read all 3 pages
    playfields, this is not a new invention, they have been made for decades
    the printing should be perfect, the clearcoat should be perfect
    that these are issues today means that cost cutting has gone too far
    Stern needs to get this basic and vital part right

    I agree, since they have been producing pins for 25 years I'm sure they are capable of getting it right and figuring it out.

    This is where I insert the bigger picture argument again, yes JJP is having PF CC issues, the king of quality. Every thread seems to be about how to protect their games

    How much impact does the distro have? I'd be upset too if I got a Met Le like Minus

    We all know shooter lane perfection is big on the secondary market

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from erak:

    Cuz my TOTAN has 13,000+ plays and not one dimple in the playfield.

    But it has ghosting.

    Not one dimple after 13k plays It has so many its flattened out. You can't be serious.

    #169 6 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I took some playfield pics at 800 plays and 2 weeks. Looks fine to me so far.

    Looks fine, keep having fun with your pin and don't freak out, life is too short. 800 plays in 2 weeks is a good way to break it in.

    #171 6 years ago
    Quoted from erak:

    Really? Actually it is the plastic under the inserts is warped a tiny bit from the heat of the original incandescent bulbs. But not chipped / lifting clearcoat on the edges of them.
    So I would not consider that ghosting.

    I haven't seen your Totan so I'm kidding, you do know Totan and CV are famous for ghosting issues right?

    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    I went with a friend to pick up a f14 and the guy had a met. It was the first time I had ever seen dimpling like that. Older sterns don't look like that. Something HAS changed.

    It is weird. My BM66LE and ASLE look like my LOTRLE pf, gorgeous, on the other hand my GBLE pf is dimpled big time, yet i had a blast playing it last night!

    It's certainly inconsistent right now.

    #175 6 years ago
    Quoted from robotron:

    and the buyer had to send a video explaining why they should be sold an sle,
    how fkng embarassing.
    on top of that they have to beg for code updates after spending 15000 dollars!!

    The code update issue really is pitiful for the 25th anniversary pin, any pin for that matter, very frustrating, however, it will be great when done.

    #177 6 years ago
    Quoted from erak:

    You can't be serious with this mode of thinking. Well if that was the case wouldn't you be able to see the difference when the playfield was stripped while shopping it out?

    So you are saying you have a perfect pf after 13k plays, not a dimple on it? That's a miracle!

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    They all will chip at a sharp edge eventually without protection ....some sooner than others depending on the hole design and the beating it takes.

    Exactly, they all chip and have issues BigD. Stern is tapering the edges now which lessens the impact/damage.

    #221 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Anecdotally, my AFMr LE playfield does not have any more, or any less dimpling on average than any of my Sterns. So if something has changed, it has changed for manufacturers other than Stern as well, so why single them out?

    Because some people can't use logic

    #222 6 years ago

    Skyemont, Why don't you ask Fremont what he thinks your DI PF will look like and his experience with JJP.

    And then ask why he's routing newer Stern pins now even after he said he'd never buy another one

    He ain't routing DI

    -1
    #223 6 years ago

    Should a PF clear chip after a few plays? Hundred plays?

    That's why Skyemont and crew won't even play DI until it gets loaded up with protection all over the place

    #224 6 years ago

    Do you think anyone is going to walk up to a pin on route and say holy shit, I'm not playing that dimpled mess!

    And after 20k plays, what difference does it make

    As for the eye test, yeah, a big difference from my own GB to BM66 and AS. HUO or not it's a f ing pinball machine

    #225 6 years ago

    My restored whitewater is gorgeous, has dimples from the air balls. So what, that's Micro

    As for Gorgar, I would guess the speed and air balls would be significantly less to non existent

    #231 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    No, offense man, but I've been reading your posts and you haven't actually been using any logic.

    Some things aren't logical and make no sense, dimpling ain't one of em

    #236 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    All this is really a moot issue. The Stern enablers will still sing their praises and throw their money at them while the people that see what is going on will bitch and maybe not buy unless their holey grail pin is produced. Gawy wins.

    Exactly, MOST people buying these games don't give a flying F about some of these issues.

    They are just having fun playing pinball.

    Extreme is making money routing Stern pinball

    Some people do care and will examine their games with a magnifying glass and proudly pronounce things like "my JJP is better quality", therefore everything else is inferior, Stern sucks, they are devil, blah blah blah

    Very few people really care that much, that is why Stern is selling the shit out of SW!

    Don't like it? Doesn't matter. Someone else stepped up and bought my canceled LE

    Why? It's a great theme and a fun pin apparently.

    So the bashing is WAY overblown and doesn't matter anyhow

    Wait until Guardians of the Galaxy is announced at expo. See what happens

    #263 6 years ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    You fucking nailed it. He hates this thread. Sure JJP has his own issues to deal with but damn, Stern has been in this business how long?? When pinball machines are played with a steel ball, shits going to happen. Stuff is going to break, etc... I just think Stern has ALOT MORE ISSUES GOING ON than everyone else. Sorry Iceman44, that's just fact. Deal with it and get over it.

    It's ebb and flow and the more you try and all cap it with hyperbole it's just not true.

    They don't have ALOT more issues.

    I'm happy I can play some great pins without issues. I'm getting an AFMLE and canceled my Stern. So you really need to get over it I think and see all sides.

    Are actually even playing your DI yet?

    #264 6 years ago
    Quoted from erak:

    I actually think your right. I'm honestly trying to remain objective. It's just hard when one company makes you feel contempt. For what seems like an inferior product at an inflated price than what was once produced.
    Maybe I just need to get with the times. Expect less, and stop eating the memberberries.

    Just curious, if Stern bothers you that much why even waste your time talking about it unless you just feel like trolling

    No matter how many times you repeat the above it's not going to change anything

    #266 6 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    You are right, Stern definitely has ALOT more issues going on than any other pinball manufacturer out there. Wanna know why? It's because Stern sells a hell of alot more pinball machines than any other company, so it doesn't take a genius to realize that they are going to have ALOT more problems than anyone else.

    Wait, so because they pump out 50 games a day you are saying Stern has a lot more problems?

    Ok, that's logical

    I'd say less problems on a pro rata basis

    #285 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Nope. Went straight to the source and was never asked to engage the distro. Was told time and time again they were going to do something for my METLE with a splintered shooter lane with less than 500 plays. The clear had cracked so bad the actual wood was splintering. After 6 months and probably 10 emails they sent me a bottle of clear...

    Was it just the shooter lane? Anywhere else on PF ?

    You should try my Hobby Lobby felt protector!

    Works great.

    #292 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Couldn't grab the date code but my last email was in March of 15'. After my last email I got no reply. Just a bottle of clear in the mail, no translite.

    Well, that sucks, but a couple of comments:

    1) You are WAY to nice! Not that its a bad thing of course but that chain showed some big time patience and courtesy. No F bombs.

    2) I know you went straight to the source but I would have gotten Chas involved on fixing the issues, and the distributor, that's their job to help you get issues resolved.

    3) Why did you give up on the translite? Copy Gary and others.

    At least you moved it on to somebody else who didn't care or had to the ability to repair it.

    That's really embarrassing for Patrick.

    #294 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    Well, Ive seen it all now. Its his fault now for being nice. Should have seen that coming.

    I didn't say its his fault, good lord. It was compliment to him and how he handled himself. It's obviously Patrick's fault and is terrible follow up and follow through, simple as that.

    #299 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    1. All good, I try and treat people with respect. At the end of the day it's still just a toy.
    2. Rookie mistake. Those were my first Sterns. Always had bought used Bally/Williams before that.
    3. I was fed up honestly. It does suck because it actually turned me off on MET. It was just issue after issue with no support. Washed my hands of it and walked away. I missed out on a sick game.

    Well you have a great attitude about it, onward and upward. Very frustrating.

    #321 6 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    You can clearly see those inserts are fine in the other angle pics.
    Even if it were true, I honestly don’t care. Life is too short to obsess about things like this.

    You got the right attitude there.

    #328 6 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Did you replace your GBLE playfield? I sure as heck did. My ghosting progressed to cracking and chipping on the inserts. This early in the game, I would be worried about multiple inserts ghosting. Stern would probably agree as well.

    I keep playing it. Have the tiny inserts with minor ghosting and a little clear chipping in the outhole. Nothing has changed but I'm watching it to make sure it doesn't disintegrate totally.

    I'm on the "list" but I'd rather wait at this point and see what happens down the road.

    1 week later
    #483 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    I have a LOTRLE which has a perfect playfield, and a newer MMR which I can compare, but unfortunately don't have any of the newer sterns to compare to. I do know of one locally which I think I can get to though, but I will post back with what I find.

    My LotrLE pf was excellent too. Still had dimples, not like my TWDLE or GBLE. My BM66LE and ASLE pf's look more like my old LotrLE pf comparison wise.

    -3
    #496 6 years ago

    I'm wondering

    So this is another crap on Stern thread, I get it, knock yourselves out.

    Is anybody holding a gun to your head making YOU buy another Stern pin? Curly did.

    Nope. They suck, shouldn't even be in business, blah, blah, blah....

    Yet they will still sell thousands more pins than anybody else. Ask yourself why?

    Because you are smarter than everybody else? Don't think so.

    Bring on GOTG and that soundtrack. Tell me again who else is doing that theme?

    Or any other theme that F ing people want?

    Nobody gives a F about the anal BS that the crybabies whine about non stop.

    Bottom line, every single one you whiners will buy another Stern if its a pin theme, code and layout you like.

    -3
    #498 6 years ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    Damn man...I too am sick of the crapping on Stern thing, but the hardness rating that is currently being discussed is interesting...and maybe helpful.

    But I'm saying wtf and who gives a shit? Interesting? Sure, at least there is some substance behind it.

    We still buy pins to play them, at least I do.

    I could care less how "hard" my pf is.

    #501 6 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Curly has had issue after issue.
    I ignored the warnings here & now I've got a NIB project pin.
    Seperaring veneers of plywood
    Broken, hollow & compressed wedges in the corners
    Splitting seams
    Game resets
    Binding up when raising/lowering the PF
    I'm happy with my game design & features. I'm happy with my distro. I'm happy with Sterns support so far.
    But damn, I'm tired.

    You F ed up then. Stick to Golden tee Curly.

    #504 6 years ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    I too am a player and not an investor...it's suppose to be fun. But I did find the "hardness" interesting because some of the most recent problematic playfield so were Ghostbusters...and if there's a reason, maybe it'd be good to know.

    I agree, I own a GBLE, the pf isn't as "hard".

    But, I promise you if I play the living shit out of it for the next decade it won't make look any different from anything else.

    Life is too short.

    #505 6 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Already paid for my 2018 update in full.
    When you getting one brudda?
    DO IT!

    It's coming next.

    -11
    #508 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    Otherwise if it clearly bothers you so much, then piss off somewhere else.

    If it bothers you so much, don't buy a Stern and piss off somewhere else. No?

    Total absolute waste of time but knock yourself out.

    It has ZERO impact on what I'll buy or not.

    I have some pf's that are harder than others. Who cares?

    #510 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    Good luck man, you clearly need it.

    Calm down man. I wasn't attacking you and don't care what you do. Nor am I defensive, I buy what I like.

    This is a "Stern bashing thread", get it?

    The A hole idiots don't get the fact that they have a choice.

    -1
    #512 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    It's not, that's what you miss time and time again. People are curious what the issues are and how or why stern does it right one time and shit the next. You throw blanket accusations around that everyone is haters and wants to bash stern. You miss the point. Every. Single. Time.
    Either way, I'm done. I posted the data to help people, not defend "data" to people the likes of yourself.

    Post away, about 5 engineers will care about the "data", whatever it is or means.

    I have "play tested" almost every single recent Stern pin and the difference means NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

    The whiners and complainers, not saying you are part of that crowd, won't care or give a shit about anything you try and present. No need to get butt hurt about it.

    #539 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Totally correct; that said, many of us want to see Stern take a risk or two on the layout and try something new. As for code, the Stern games that are best coded have all been hits (Tron, IM, Met, TWD, LOTR, AC/DC, GOT), but Sterns commitment to code does seem to be hit and miss.
    Stern has the vast majority of the best coded games in pinball history. That said, too many games have been left behind by Stern for this to be a selling point on new releases for them (no one wants a mystery hole role on whether the code will be completed).

    Code is certainly no guarantee with Stern, except for Lyman eventually and Dwight very good lately. Lonnie has done a good job on AS.

    Watch what happens when BM66 code drops! Gonna be a monster.

    Once again, wait until they release GOTG and watch how fast people snap that theme up.

    Supposedly, we are all "gonna be surprised". It's a pin i want to like for sure!

    Yes Extreme, my BM66LE is just perfect now though Every other Stern pin I've ever bought, zero issues out of the box. Recent ASLE is perfect in every way.

    Btw, i didn't have a chance to get over to NYNY last weekend to check out your "quality" pins, but i will next time, and I'll bring my magnifying glass.

    Rest of you guys, whine away, I'll be waiting for GOTG, but at least you'll have the option to buy that gorgeous $9k POTC coming out.

    Oh, and AFMRLE on the way, is that game shit too?

    #543 6 years ago

    There will ALWAYS be people that are NEVER F ing happy with ANYTHING!

    And if you guys own a business you know what I'm talking about.

    It's obvious Stern has issues that needs to be resolved, nobody is denying that. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head to buy anything either.

    I don't know about you, and thankfully it happens very infrequently, i red flag and stop sign the potential "pain in the ass". Some clients aren't worth ANY amount of $$ they pay you to put up with their shit. Just saying.

    #555 6 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Once I'm done reading this 'Stern bash thread" I'm starting a new "Ice bash thread".
    Its gonna be way more fun I bet

    No doubt. Let's have some fun!

    It's justified

    And it will be much more interesting than rehashing the same old shit.

    The good old days! I feel a drunken party coming on tonight

    #558 6 years ago

    "Ehh, those are heavily routed pros. Besides, you don't need a magnifying glass to see all the ghosted inserts.
    Swing by Fremont and eyeball the nice LE's I have over there."

    Cool. That will give me a good excuse to go downtown. Always fun!

    #560 6 years ago

    My new puppy I'm training to bring me a Coors light. The 16 ounce cans are difficult at this point.

    IMG_6646 (resized).JPGIMG_6646 (resized).JPG

    #563 6 years ago

    My man!

    IMG_6647 (resized).JPGIMG_6647 (resized).JPG

    #564 6 years ago
    Quoted from doublestack:

    Reading this thread for some reason, then I see the pic of ice with his dog. All I know is this man knows the most comfortable shoes ever! I have the same pair. I love those things!

    Oh man. Best shoes ever. Got two of the mesh versions too

    Olukai I think

    #565 6 years ago

    Cats aren't impressed. Who cares. Finally have a useful animal!

    IMG_6648 (resized).JPGIMG_6648 (resized).JPG

    #567 6 years ago

    Haha, yep I can see your cat is king of the castle too

    All my cats do is take the pinball covers off my pins. They want to play !

    1 week later
    #616 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinFever:

    I Agree 15k for a Turd game like BM66 is just plain Insane!.

    $15k for any game is insane. BM66 will be a great pin.

    EVERY single $8k and over pin will get its ass hammered on the secondary market. Doesn't matter if its made like a football blocking sled.

    Why? Because we don't use our pins as blocking sleds.

    1 week later
    #703 6 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    You haven't played many Stern games then. To call Star Wars the best game yet is hard to fathom... that would mean it's better than MET, TWD, ST, TRON to name just a few. I highly doubt star wars will be in the top 50 5 years from now.

    And then the final sentence that he's selling it next week. Had to be joking

    White looks excellent Hank!

    It bears repeating again, Stern simply has to get the coding issues ironed out before I jump in on another release as well.

    BM66 will be great when finished but having to wait a full year to get it to an acceptable code level is VERY frustrating

    #707 6 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    And don't forget, Dwight said that our GB is considered finished and it doesn't even have the final wizard mode yet! Everyone talks about how great he is but that's not too great if you ask me.

    Really frustrating. Our AS, as fun as it is, could use some more MB modes. Even unfinished Kiss has 5 i think.

    #772 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Stern and JJP aren't really competing for the same market - Stern is trying to get the highest margin and still stay somewhat affordable (BM66 not withstanding) - JJP is going for "The Best", and I say that meaning that price is no object for their market.

    #786 6 years ago

    Everybody flipping out over JJP quality hasn't factored in yet the price increase that's coming

    I think it's going to be $8500 base, $9500 LE

    Let's see how that little dose of price spike tastes when it's announced next week

    I don't care how much $$ you have, this is nosebleed territory. Especially buying several

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