(Topic ID: 197082)

Stern Bashing. Justified?

By erak

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by CaptainNeo
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    #592 6 years ago

    Hi Guys,

    I'm reading you since a while... Quality in Stern is surely a problem, but more than that the Stern warranty policy is according to me not acceptable... So it is important to ask about warranty period to the distributor. If there no warranty because it ran out of time, it's like you're buying a second hand product...

    Then have a look on the second hand market and see the prizes practised... They're not the same. So a recommendation, don't buy NIB anymore and Stern will react. Go on if you want, but in this case do not whine afterward.

    Stern quality issues and warranty policy are known things... So act consequently and take your responsibilities.

    1 week later
    #629 6 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    SPIKE system games made in 2015 already have obsolete board sets that will be NLA in less than 5 years with no viable replacements.
    In 10 years, some Stern games will be unrepairable.

    Hi,

    I understand well what you mean, but I'd like to remind you obsolescence is not a new thing... GTB system 1 stayed out of order for a while until Pascal boards were set on the market. I'm sure somebody will make his business one day to remedy the problem.

    Of course it was easier to repair old bords than with new SMD components... And nobody knows how long these new boards will stay in service without any failure... But this is also part of Stern Business, to sell spares... By the end, bad quality can be a business model... Stern model...

    #660 6 years ago

    People does what they want with his money...

    For some money is not a matter... Can spend without counting...

    Let's see what happen when prices rise up next year...?

    #736 6 years ago

    Hi,

    Information available in pinwiki inside SAM & Spike maintenance documents...

    #737 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    Updated with more pins:
    Not all the way finished, but using a rebound tester, and configuring for somewhere between hardwood and bronze, I got some interesting results. The problem is trying to get a reading through the clear, which is obviously changing the hardness of the material.
    Average of 5 readings just above the valley on the shooter lane. HB is the unit of measurement, but it a complicated answer as to what the scale exactly is.
    MMR: 119 HB
    LOTRLE: 178 HB
    TSPP: 138 HB (mini playfield was 153 HB)
    TH: 163 HB
    WOZ: 184 HB
    I will do a GB and a MET On my way back from dinner and will update the results.
    Updated list with more games:
    MET: 157 HB
    GB PRO: 92-104 HB (92 was at shooter lane, 104 was highest result elsewhere on the untouched portions of the playfield, 3 ghosted inserts)
    NGG: 181 HB
    TOM: 170 HB
    AFM: 177 HB
    TRON: 155 HB
    GB PRE: 133 HB
    ST PRE: 161 HB
    Updated: With the updated results, especially with the ghosted one, it's pretty clear whatever they are doing with the wood has an effect. I checked the GB PRO all over, just to make sure I wasn't getting an erroneous reading. There was also a visible difference between the softer games and the harder games as far as playfield quality and condition. I don't really know what the fix is or what any of this really means as far as a solution, but at least their is verifiable data from a calibrated test device that we can go off. Also, we do rent this gear out, so stern is more than welcome to grab some equipment for their QC shop if so desired.
    So far I was really surprised by the vast differences in hardness, as a typical steel pinball would be in the 450 HB range the way the unit is configured. Keep in mind, these were the average of 5 readings from the same spot (I did some reference checks around the playfield and all results were within 5%). I always thought my MMR had some funky looking dimples, but nothing out of hand. I do Now know why my LOTR has always looked perfect, even after hundreds of plays, and it has something to with it being "harder" would be my guess. Either way, take what you will from the data, but it's not everyday you can use a $10k hardness tester for a god damn pinball playfield (I think I crossed a line of being "too into" the hobby and need to step back. Haha)

    Dear Procrastinator.

    Hi, I would be interested how you have perfomed this HB testing as the level of your results seems unfamiliar to me (I'm working in aeronautics into a machining domain)...

    In fact if you google Wikipedia and Brinnel, in general a ball of 10 mm is used (around 3/8") under a charge of 29.430N for a period of 10 to 15 seconds. The scale of measure for a steel ball is HBS (HBW if a ball of tungsten is used, but this is for hardest metals).

    Soft wood (pine) = 1.6 HBS
    Hard wood = 2.6 to 7.0 HBS
    Aluminium (not heat treated) = 15 HBS
    Copper = 35 HBS
    Soft steel = 120 HBS
    Stainless steel = 250 HBS
    Hard steel = 650 to 700 HBS...

    When I see you have measured a minimum of 92 HB and a maxi of 184 HB (for maple plywood) then I'm wondering about the method you have used... Could you please make a clarification?

    #775 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    Why are you so angry about Stern products anyway? Did you get burned by them before?

    No I suppose Jimy is a bit disapointed, as a lot of us in France, when we see high value products with so cheap materials and such a bad quality... Anyway everybody does what he wants of his money... But it's better to know about it before...

    #784 6 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Most of them have distros.
    - One for Heighway pinball (who still believes the LE comes with fiber optic lit ramps... ) http://www.franceflipper.com/flippers-neufs/alien-limited-edition.php
    - Several for JJP
    - at least one for American Pinball (and you can buy from Ministry of Pinball as well)
    - none for Spooky

    Quite right...
    Several for Stern...
    ... and Duch Pinball (Holland) is only exporting to US...

    Got the chance to try "Alien", DI LE, SW pro & SW LE on a recent pin convention (BGS in France, but have a look on flipjuke forum)... Stern pins seem made from cheap materials (ramps, legs, door, sides...). Seems worse and worse as time pass by...

    No whaou effect trying Stern's, even if I was waiting this moment to play them since a while.

    I'm not a "pro" JJP, but DI was better.

    #795 6 years ago
    Quoted from colonel_caverne:

    Full game is premium for Stern and base for jjp.

    But for premium price do ya get premium quality?

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