(Topic ID: 197082)

Stern Bashing. Justified?

By erak

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 806 posts
  • 142 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by CaptainNeo
  • Topic is favorited by 14 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    Screenshot_20171010-005748 (resized).png
    21192074_10154568550177924_235036763317045450_n (resized).jpg
    IMG_1333 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2519 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2517 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2515 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2514 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2511 (resized).JPG
    IMAG0710 (resized).jpg
    IMAG0705 (resized).jpg
    IMAG0704 (resized).jpg
    hanghost (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    stern-WTF- (resized).jpg
    fly in ointment.jpg

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider CaptainNeo.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    16
    #18 6 years ago

    just the fact that they have now broken tradition and started making games with unserviceable boards, without schematics. Makes them worthy of bashing. Because of this, they have lost all future business with me.

    #203 6 years ago

    i've owned TOTAN for 6 years. My playfield had about a million dimples on it. Mine didn't have ghosting but 92% of TOTANS i've seen had ghosting on an insert or two. Just like my shadow. Has so many dimples, it looks flat again. WHich these games will as well.

    My Ghostbusters still doesn't have any ghosting of any kind. Has about 600+ plays on it so far.

    #215 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Come on. You cant really believe that those fucking craters that happen on Stern PFs will all even out and the PF will look perfectly flat. That is the biggest load of horse shit I have ever heard. Yes dimples happen but there is a difference in a dimple and the lunar craters that happen in a newer Stern game. Also take a ball peen hammer and start hitting it over and over again. It will turn to mush and fall apart not get flat again. I have owned 5 or 6 Sterns so I believe I have a right to have an opinion here. They are low quality toys compared to pins of the past and it is because the people at stern particularly Gawy is a cheap bastard and who's goal is to make as much money as he can to the detriment of his customers. He is how old? Who cares if people get fed up and stop buying, he is making money hand over fist NOW. When a shooter lane falls apart in a few months how is that not proof that the wood is sub par compared to the wood in the past? When a cabinet comes out of the box split how is that not proof that it is sub par compared to the past. When a PF ghosts the day you start playing it it seems to me the clear is sub par. If it was all clears then we would have clear coat peeling off cars going down the road. Low quality and exorbitant prices make me want to purchase from Stern.

    they do. They always do. Play 10k games on it and you will see. Every field that goes through my doors that's newer than 1991 has dimples in it. millions upon millions. I can see them. Makes the surface look a little like orange peel. AFMs, MB, Shadow, T2's, IJ..you name it. And I see a ton of playfields a year.

    #303 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Didn't bally try plastic playfields in the 1970s? I believe they did on a few select Rolling Stones. The experiment was a failure as posts kept stripping out.
    Remember folks, "innovation" in pinball usually sucks.

    sure did. SPeakeasy was one of the games that had them, as well as cybernaut.

    #327 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Of course it matters....we know the same game within the same run can have awesome or shit playfields...after spending $5000-$8000, don't you think you deserve the awesome one? My first NIB Stern, a *CLEARANCE* Wheel of Fortune for $2400, had the most perfect glassy playfield I'd ever seen, and didn't dimple/crater at all. So, knowing that it's possible to have a good one, OF COURSE it matters and you should want the good one!
    I remember playing my friend's clay-cratered STLE and you could "feel" it...you could feel the ball rolling on the lumps. It absolutely affects gameplay when it's that bad. Again, this isn't "look at it in a certain light and you can see it" stuff...all of my "good" games, yes - you can see the dimples if you turn on the ceiling lights and look at certain angles...but they look glassy and smooth under normal conditions...maybe visible dimple here or there...but not these massive pock-mark type ones. There is a difference.

    WOF doesn't airball that much. ST does. The more airballs, the faster it will dimple and faster it will even itself out.

    -5
    #331 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    You always conveniently ignore the facts and evidence presented.
    Once again I speak to the brick wall:
    NORMAL DIMPLES even out!!!!
    CRATERED LUMPS DO NOT!!!!!!
    These are two different issues. Lumps NEVER even out EVER.

    you ignore the fact that every B/W is dimpled to living shit. Every single one that has come through my doors doesn't look any different than anything else. Give it 20 years, and see if you still bitch.

    -4
    #334 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    You did it again.
    Dimples are dimples.
    Craters are craters.
    Different issues. Stop LUMPING them together.

    ok, if something makes a crater. tons of craters will do the exact same thing as tons of dimples. Smashing it all down is the same, whether it's smaller or deeper. Eventually it will even out. Has to. Softer wood. Doesn't matter. It will even out. It can only compress so far, then it's done. Period.

    #337 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    No, all the ink will eventually start flaking off and the PF will start coming apart.

    if that was even possible from dimples/craters, I would have seen it before. Completely ridiculous.

    #343 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    That really isn't a valid argument. Both dimples and craters are due to the balls. The difference between dimples and craters are first and foremost the diameter of the defect created. Due to the balls being spherical, the diameter of the defect is directly related to the depth of the defect. A crater gets closer to the paint/wood than a dimple does.

    nope. the clear moves with it. It's not like dimples are pushing the clear aside. Dimples and dents are caused from the top layer of the plywood, being compressed. If it's a harder hit, it will compress a little deeper than a dimple. Buttttttt. it can only compress so much, and then it will cease to compress. Once it hits it's "bottom out" level, it will no longer compress or dent. So if you get a dimple or crater. Get enough of them, and they even each other out.

    -1
    #350 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    That didn't even counter my argument. You're basically trying to disregard girth as a precursor to depth for some reason. Even your post suggests such. "If you bottom out, girth doesn't matter.".

    that doesn't even make sense. All dents, dimples and craters bottom out eventually. Regardless on how fast they do it per hit.

    #354 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    No. You're still trying to treat dimples as craters, when the words being utilized is proof there is a difference. One instance of a crater is worth many instances of dimples. A dimple alters the playfield a small amount each time. A crater alters a playfield a large amount each time. If you are dimpling, you will never match that which is caratering. You're basically arguing that a small one can affect the same as a large one by simply doing it more, but that ignores the fact that doing it more can be done independently of it being small or large. You're just saying "oh, yeah, well dimples can F it up cuz they happen a lot more," but you could simply crater all the time, if you could crater.

    there is no such thing as crater to begin with. Made up pinside shit. Big dimples and little dimples is what it comes down to. A big dimple is the same fawking thing as a little dimple. If a playfield allows bigger dimples for whatever reason. The effects will be the same. Instead of a million little dimples eventually evening out the playfield, you have a million big dimples eventually evening out the playfield. Eventually it will be hammer flat again. whether or not they are big or small.

    #357 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    You're wrong. Flat out wrong. You know nothing about playfields and no one should ever trust you with quality restorations when you're so ignorant of the very thing you claim to specialize in. Not sure why it's taken a decade to do this, but it's time to throw you on my ignore list with the other useless voices who contribute nothing of value to the hobby. Farewell forever, Neo!

    you make absolutely no sense. If you think this shit won't flatten out over the years, you have not been in the hobby back in the early 90's when clearcoating with airball games became normal. The shit looked the same back then as the new shit does now.

    #368 6 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Plus:
    All clearcoat is definitely not the same. They come in a variety of hardness. And they're applied in one, or many, coats resulting in different levels of hardness, thickness and durability.
    And now you're really on to something.

    no, dimples/dents are only from the wood. The clear moves with the wood.

    #378 6 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    With all due respect regarding your profession in the industry, please don't insult me. We are not talking about 90's pins.
    Proof: Drop a plastic ball on a freshly clearcoated plate of steel. Then take a picture of the dent in the clearcoat. Show it to yourself.
    When Stern's clearcoat is of poor quality, is not hard enough, and/or applied too thickly, it will spread out under impact and "crater". This is what is causing the massive craters on newer Sterns, in my opinion.
    These craters are NOT what used to be considered dimples.
    I trust that you can objectively identify the difference.

    you don't want your clear super hard anyway. Stiff clear, doesn't flex with the ball and the dimples. Stays stiff and pops off the surface. You want it to have a little give to flex with the playfield.

    Does the front of your car have dimples in the clear? Nope. It chips out from rocks. if it dimpled in the clear, you would have dimples all over the damn place on the front of your car.

    #387 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    This thread is hilariously funny but frustrating at the same time. Its like a political discussion, no one is going to budge on their opinion. BTW does anyone even use NEO for PF restoration anymore? I used him twice and both times they were so bad I sold the PFs because I wouldn't want them in my game.

    if that's true, you didn't say shit to me, because I would have taken them back and fixed whatever you didn't like.

    #390 6 years ago

    For the ghosting. People are blaming the clear, blaming the wood.

    It very well could be the plastic on the inserts. Depending on the plastic they used and how freshly made they were. The plastic could be still outgassing. Put a fresh plastic insert in a wooden field. Then reopen it up again with the plaining process. then screen it and clear it. It could still be going through an outgassing process, which would create gas pockets under the clear, which gives you the ghosting. Or the glue they are now using has a long gassing process to cure. So many factors could cause this, would be very difficult to pinpoint. Especially if they changed many things all at once. Like new playfield supplier, new glue, new inserts, new cad machine, new clear, new ink.

    #394 6 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    ^^^^^
    The inserts cause craters & chipping clear?
    Nah, you just want to remain in "shitty wood denial" IMO
    Nothing personal dude, this ain't you vs me. I just don't think you're an authority on this shit. Neither am I of course.

    i was talking about the ghosting issue. not about dimpling as I don't concern myself with that, as it will even itself out over time. Clear chipping, depending on where it is, can be expected if it's on a edge or angle that gets bashed all the time, but should take time. Clear could be too stiff and brittle. Maybe they stopped useing flex in the clear, which would allow the clear to take hits better and contour to the movement of the wood.

    #415 6 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Maybe they're using shitty uncured cheap wood on their splitting cabinets & cratered ghosted chipping playfields.
    Dude maybe you didnt read the part where I can see the wood is different.
    So let me be reeeeally clear.
    ***The wood is different***
    And it aint for the better.
    (Nothing personal Neo)
    Its not a QC issue actually. Its a materials issue. I'd imagine it was intentional too since cheap shit is, well, cheap.

    maybe it's different. It's really only the top layer anyone gives a shit about. So if they bought a huge batch with the wrong top layer, that could effect things. Playfields have always been made with different materials. the top layer has always been 1 of 3 types of wood. Curing could be an issue. Speed of growth is a factor as well.
    A stradivari violin sounds different than all others, because of the specific forest the wood is harvested from. It's a cold, low light area, that makes the trees grow much slower than others. Making the wood much more compact and dense. This is what gives a Stratavari it's distinct sound.
    Same could be true for playfield top layers. For most applications, the top layer harvest wouldn't mean that much if it was a slow crop, or a fast crop. For pinball, it could have subtle differences. I really think dimples will even out, whether they are deep or not. The wood will only compress so much, and then stop compressing. Eventually the ball will hit nearly every area enough to compress the whole field. Higher airball games will show the signs faster and even out faster than less airball games.

    #425 6 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Here's where I take issue with this statement.... Eventually. Eventually doesn't mean shit. Eventually the Sun is going to turn into a red giant and envelop the Earth. Eventually. Eventually, in both the case of the sun, and the case of the playfield, will not occur in our lifetime.
    For one to truly be honest, one must quantify "Eventually". So, I'm not only going to ask a few questions, I'm going to honestly answer them for you, just to save time and electrons. Should you disagree with any of the answers I've provided for you, please explain and provide proof.



    As a professional pinball playfield restorer, are you willing to state that the dimples on recent late model Stern pinball machines will even out after 500 games?
    "No."
    As a professional pinball playfield restorer, are you willing to state that the dimples on recent late model Stern pinball machines will even out after 1,000 games?
    "No."
    Mmmmm.
    How about 5,000 games?
    "No."
    Wait, really?!?!?!
    I don't understand, this makes no sense. YOU said they will eventually even out. I can't believe that after 5,000 plays, it hasn't evened out.
    Ok, I know what to do. I'm going to play the shit out of my $15,000 SUPER LE pinball machine. In fact, I'm going to play it 500 times per week for an entire year. FUCKIN PINBALL ROCKS, MAN!!!!!!
    January
    February
    March
    April
    Etc.
    So, now that I have 25,000+ plays, are you willing to state that the dimples on Stern pinball machines have evened out?
    And we both know the answer is simply, no. I have multiple late model Stern games with more or less than 25,000 plays, with a playfield full of craters. And again, my proof is on public display for ANYBODY to verify.
    Since the majority of the people reading these forums are collectors, and are concerned with what can happen to THEIR game, I believe the above statement it completely dishonest because based on home use, "Eventually" never happens. The dings, dents, divots, dimples, craters, etc., are there forever.
    So to tell any collector that the craters will "eventually" even out, to me, is unreasonable at best.

    lets see some of those 25k play games. They can't look that bad or any worse than all the clearcoated b/w games that travel through here on a weekly basis.

    #429 6 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    That's part of my point. You specialize in restoring playfields that are worth restoring. I mean really, how many SW, AS, BM66, GB, GoT, KISS, WWE, TWD, MET, ACDC, do you get to closely examine with such a variety of plays? It's all I do, my friend.
    Please understand, I own, or have owned, multiples of almost all of these titles (Except BM66), including pros-LEs, I've VERY closely examined these machines from day 1 NIB, all the way up to 32,000 plays on a IMVE. Look at my collection.... I own 1 Bally. Next closest thing is an MMRLE. But, it's also true that you've never seen me comment on a B/W playfield, ever. I know nothing about them.




    As I've stated, they are out in the wild for anybody to see, specifically The Big Apple Arcade at NYNY in Las Vegas. You can see a full range of playfields in a 10 pin line-up of late model Stern titles from a 2007 SM through a 2017 SW (with 9 ghosted inserts).
    Take a walk next door to Excalibur and there is a ST pro and a GoT pro side by side. Both over 10k plays.
    I have 5 more at Fremont Arcade with low mileage (3,500-8,500 plays) you can examine. After lunch, I'll take you over to the PHoF for a real playfield viewing spectacle. While we're there, don't forget to ask Tim his thoughts on the current quality of recent releases. ROFL
    I also have an additional 15 pins in my shop with plays numbering from 1 (GBLE replacement playfield) Shameless plug: For Sale. up to an Avatar LE with 20,000 plays on it.
    For shits & giggles, you can examine a WOZ with 1,1XX plays, directly next to a WOZ with 11,XXX plays. A near dead-on 10x comparison. Why there's also an MMRLE with 840 plays to include in the playfield comparisons.


    Of course, I could just take some pictures when I'm there tomorrow morning fixing SM. That would save you on gas.
    BTW - Among a variety of other psychological issues, I'm so OCD that it has now taken me nearly an hour to finish writing this ridiculous reply.

    I mean the playfields very well could act differently. I just don't know how they wouldn't even out over time. Just doesn't seem possible not to. Just with the nature on how dimples and pounding a playfield works. It would have to even out over time. I don't see how it couldn't. Wood can only dent and compress so far and then it stops. No matter what. eventually you compress every area to it's max point, in every little spot. It will be even again. The science behind it says it has to.

    Also, i've played WOZ many many times. It's not an airball game. Very seldom do I get airballs on it. Airballs are a huge contributing factor to dimples. Shadow is an airball game. GB is an airball game. Some designs just don't get them because of the way they are laid out. JJP's flippers are a little weaker, so they tend not to airball as much.

    I have AC/DC, GB, TF, and LOTR for newer sterns. None of them seem to dimple any worse than shadow, rfm, cv, totan, tom or any of the other b/w i've owned for 6+ years.

    #431 6 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Because of this thread, I've looked really closely at my Champion Pub. As you know, this game actually encourages air-balls.
    You know what's nuts? There's no dimpling on my playfield. Seriously.
    *mind blown*

    it's because it's been pounded to shit over the years and evened back out.

    #445 6 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Use caution with false beliefs.
    I have seen many damaged playfields based on all sorts of type of play, not necessarily neglect, it simply depends on how long you have been involved in the hobby. I used to be responsible for working with dealers for game reimports, so they was a key point of evaluation I performed. Probably many of the games people here own today. I can find more photos in my archives of TZ, if necessary, but I don't think some would want to buy them, and not a single one was water damaged.
    BLY/WMS playfields do not have supernatural strength against wear, dimples, dents, or divots.
    Anyone that owns a WhiteWater can attest to this fact, whether the VUK, lost mine, or general play.

    apparently that owner was a fan of Wildcat playfield cleaner. :/

    #454 6 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHAH wiener MM. i'd clearcoat that as is and leave it.

    #456 6 years ago
    Quoted from Manic:

    Not sure what showing yet ANOTHER old MM PF with 100,000 plays and zero maintenance proves. Yes the flippers were scraping off the cc and paint for probably half it's life. Very few machines got the amount of play and were neglected like MM so this "explanation" means nothing.
    Theses same pics get trotted out during these threads and the only thing they prove is how insanely popular MM was on location (WMS stated they wished they had tripled the amount produced) and that there were (are) some seriously lazy "ops" out there.
    The only attention this machine ever got from it's owners was having the coin door opened and closed. I think the machine was trying to send a message to the owners with it's not so subtle "subliminal image"

    it's not just zero maintenance on MM that causes this. I've done at least 30 MM playfields over the years. Nearly all of them had angel wings and wear in the middle like this. No other WPC95 game wears like this. It's not from flipper drag either as it's above the flipper where the ball goes. I ended up figuring out why MM's playfields wear so badly. The flipper bushings they used in MM were too high. This caused the flipper rubber to hit the top of the ball instead of the middle. Basically, causing the ball to push down and dig into the playfield like a pop bumper. Causing massive premature playfield wear.

    So those that want to bitch about stern quality. Through the years, B/W had their share of quality issues that cause problems down the road too. All manufacturers did. The only difference is. Operators bought the games and didn't bitch about every little thing all the time like at home collectors do. granted, some things are justified to bitch about. but some of the little stupid shit some of you guys bitch about is just ridiculous.

    #475 6 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    And having your customers send you videos why you deserve to be chosen to spend $15k on a pin.
    Sorry Neo but you are dead wrong on this issue. Much like you were when you said back in Oct 2016 that Stern fixed their playfield issues

    I was told they did. Said it was a insert shifting issue that was resolved with my run. I still dont' have any ghosting.

    #476 6 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Neo works for Stern. He is a secret employee pushing their product. I went to an estate sale once where the woman who owned the company was a vile nasty woman who called people names and insulted them to their face. She called my wife white trash and I think I would have backhanded her if the cop wasn't there. You can call me white trash and I would agree with you but not my wife. When you looked at their websight it was nothing but comments on how rude and how racist she was and how they would never go back but every once in a while there was a review saying how great she was and making excuses for why the woman was such a nasty, vile woman. This is what I think of when I see Neo being the undaunted fanboy regardless of their obvious shortcomings.

    you don't pay very close attention then, because if you did, you would see that I refuse to buy another stern until they change their boards into serviceable pieces of equipment with schematics. That, and the prices start going back to reasonable. Instead of prices going up, while the games are going back to looking like the econoline years (IM, BBH, RS, CSI, avatar, ect)

    #478 6 years ago

    I think you would have to do it over a small area close together to prove they even out the same.

    #490 6 years ago

    and it very well might not be stern doing it at all. When you buy sheets in bulk. The distributor very well could have thrown some stuff in, without the proper top layer. For most applications, the top layer not being birch or something similar, would not be a big deal. for pinball, it would matter. Or the manufacturer of said plywood, thought they were getting a certain wood in, and it was actually switched with something else unknown to manufacturing. Kind of like that huge shipment of "beef" we got from china that turned out to be rat meat. I'm sure it happens in the wood industry as well.

    #516 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    Even if that was the case, that is what QC is for. I know multi million dollar manufacturers that spend $60k in Xrf analyzers to verify the material incoming. I'm sure they don't want to do it, but they realize it's the cost of doing business. Even for smaller operations, their is rental companies and cheaper options, but QC is vital.

    i've worked in a lot of production, done a lot of material purchasing. When you order something to be manufactured, you don't go out and test each piece to make sure it's identical to the load that came in before. Right dimensions, right weight. Check. Put it in production. Just like steel. Car manufacturers don't put the steel through some vigorous testing system. If they did, you wouldn't get some models that start rusting through the middle of a hood or trunk, under the paint with in years, and all that exact model rust same spot, the exact same way. Or the clear turns flat and dusty.

    The truth of the matter is, they don't have some big testing setup for every batch of wood they buy. They assume it's coming from the same place and ordered exactly the same as before. And even if it's something new, I really dont' think pinball manufacturers really put their fields through that much of an intense testing. Assuming of course Stern didn't make the changes themselves to cut costs. Which I really don't know for sure. But just like the John T thread. I don't just assume one thing and run with it, and make up my mind that's what it is. Could be so many things from so many companies. If it's even anything to do with playfields at all.

    And no i'm not a spokes fan boy for Stern. As i've said before, i'm actually really pissed at them for this spike system, disposable board system and it's the sole reason I will never buy another spike system game. And the one I do have, I may sell or trade down the road, even tho it's fun as all shit. And my ghostbusters doesn't have a speck of ghosting, and it doesn't have any more dimples than every other god damn clearcoated game i've ever owned.

    #520 6 years ago
    Quoted from Procrastinator:

    But honestly, QC earlier on in the process is just good business. Imagine how much money stern lost replacing playfields. They probably could've hired an employee full time just to sit there and take readings of every piece that comes in, avoiding probably 97% of the issues. On top of that, yea you spent some money on QC, but the loss from replacing PF's is gone, negative press is gone, cost of shipping/labor for replacements and the customer support can be cut because people aren't calling with PF issues.
    I'm not saying all this with absolute certainty, but you get very few chances at a good reputation. It seems like the smart play is to find the issues early on in production, before they are in the public. I feel like stern epitomizes the saying, penny wise, pound foolish.

    that's why I don't know if it's Stern that would cut a corner in the playfield department. Too expensive to fix if shit goes haywire. Make a scoop too thin, or designed like shit (like TZ scoop), not a big deal. $1.27 part. Kick out a new one. But something like a playfield could be a nightmare for Stern if shit goes crazy. But stern doesn't have 500k testing equipment to test things as trivial as surface wood hardness. I have a feeling, the QC process is more at looking at the sheets. Does the wood look the right color? number of layers there? Weight check out? Size? Send it to the screeners! If even stern even orders the fields. The screen printers might do all the ordering themselves. But I know stern does the drilling in house.

    #522 6 years ago

    if you have one, Stern might be up for that trade. I'd offer it to them if I had one.

    #546 6 years ago
    Quoted from colonel_caverne:

    Of course. Here is a pic. I just want to how Stern warranty works? Period? When period starts?
    Game built august 2016. got it nib around 4 months ago. I know I should have asked earlier, but it did not prevent me from playing ..and time is gone..

    This is what you are complaining about? take a sharpie of the same color and touch it to the cabinet. Solved/fixed.

    #573 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Actually they used to use Sharpies for touchups in the past. A friend of mine got a Tron LE with Sharpie touchup on the playfield...he had a fit! My friend's 2007 Spider-Man had some Sharpie touchups on the cabinet.

    this is very true. Stern used to use sharpies to touch up blemishes all the time. There are many LOTR with factory sharpie on the cabs. They have been doing it for years.

    #575 6 years ago

    i'd take my whole cabinet drawn in sharpie if I could have boards that were serviceable.

    #585 6 years ago

    btw, that's a big ass fly. I think if I found a fly that large, i'd have to trap it and keep it as a pet.

    1 week later
    #632 6 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I don't like the cost / feature cutting, but it's nice to get a NIB pin delivered to your door for a bit over $5k.

    I liked it better 8 years ago, when I could have the exact same thing, but the "full" version and it cost $3400. That's right. $3400 just 8 years ago. Either the price of wood, steel and wire has drastically shot up in price and doubled in 8 short years, or someone is really getting fat pockets. I wonder what it could be?

    12
    #636 6 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    I'm sure the cost of business has gone up. Those things i'm sure have gone up along with Labor, new building, etc etc. Can still get Pro's for right around 5k and many of them are great games.

    really? You really buy that BS? You know how much the price of pinballs increased the 8 years before that? $300-400. So magically, all that stuff became more expensive the last 8 years, more than the 8 years before that? It's all bullshit. If you guys think for one second that Stern can't crank these games out for under 3k anymore.......then the wool has been pulled over your eyes.

    #638 6 years ago
    Quoted from Manic:

    Look in '97 MM sold NIB for between $3200 and $3600. If you use an inflation calculator that is indeed around 5K these days.
    You can debate if the features and quality are comparable.

    well considering I bought NIB from stern in 2009 for $3400. That's equal to 0% inflation for 12 years before.

    #649 6 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    WTF do you think Stern is a Non-Profit organization? How much do you think it Costs JJP or Spooky to Make pinball machines? Pretty sure both are charging more then what it costs for a NIB Stern Pro. Do you think either of them have the same amount of over-head that Stern has???
    Man if you don't like it fine don't buy it. But give it a f'n rest we all get that you don't like the price of NIB games. Go find a beater to restore or whatever makes you happy. It seems like every 2 weeks all you do is whine & cry about the cost of NIB games these day.

    the prices are what they are at because of the buyers. If the buyers refused the price. the prices would go back to normal. As long as you guys keep lining up, the prices are going to continue to go up every release until people stop.

    #656 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Maybe or maybe that will be the end of new pinball machines being made, prices will not go down.

    no, because they know they can still make money by lowering the price. they would have to be a bunch of dumbasses, to refuse to fix the business model that shot themselves in the foot and just close the doors, instead of making 300% profit margin.

    #658 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    I agree with you and wish it worked that way but it doesn't, is it stupid? yes, is that how it works? yes, will prices go down, No?

    we don't know because people are still lining up to buy games, even thou prices go up every release. Until the buying stops, we wont' know if they will smarten up and know it's because of price gouging or will they try and blame other factors, so it doesn't look like it's their fault? (ie: license sucked, designer sucked, art sucked)

    #674 6 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Most Star Wars fans aren't pinball fans though. More than likely just checking it out.

    I was a star wars fan, and the DE SW blew me away. I was relatively new at the time when it came out and didn't know pinball all that well. If I would have seen the Stern SW back then. I would have been like....Meh :/

    #678 6 years ago
    Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

    I am buying two LE's, one I am not opening until 2025.

    perfect, so when the boards are obsolete and you find out yours is dead out of the box, now you have no way to fix it or play it.

    #734 6 years ago

    Sam you say? I may consider trading my GB premium for MET pro then.

    #745 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    You know so many folks who buy every LE, complain about them and then keep buying them? Like who?

    I see the whiners on here do it. many times.

    #768 6 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Some people will like SW..hell I absolutely love TF....to each his own I guess but if you think Stern keep pulling shit like this for the next few titles... I would say no.

    TF looks jam packed like a TSPP compared to SW. TF looks like they actually put some effort into the game. SW looks like they quit halfway through the design process.

    #797 6 years ago

    good luck finding a SF2 NIB anymore. Probably still wouldn't clear the 1k threshold.

    #803 6 years ago
    Quoted from erak:

    One other thing to consider. How long did it actually take to design this layout?
    10 minutes to move a few things?
    I thought supposedly it was worked on for about a year?

    Steve does copy himself a lot. There is no denying it when you have side by side comparisons. George does it too. I can't believe how similar TF and LOTR are. Except there you have to flip one over before laying it on top of the layout. Stern plays it safe by sticking with the same shit over and over. So if you have all New Sterns in your collection, you pretty much have a collection of the same 3 or 4 games. If you want variety, you have to expand out to different eras, different manufacturers. Or you have the same old shit.

    #806 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I hear Street Fighter II has a novel layout. Worth a look?

    so does goldwings. not every unique layout is a winner. Just like not every cookie cutter fan pattern is a winner.

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider CaptainNeo.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-bashing-justified?tu=CaptainNeo and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.