I wasn't being specific, composite, plastic, carbon fibre I am sure they can make a playfield that is virtually indestructible with modern technology. It's cool to see that old playfield really accentuates how much times have changed.

I've often thought that would be a good solution. Basically what the Hardtop guys are doing. Ghosting would also be a thing of the past.

You fucking nailed it. He hates this thread. Sure JJP has his own issues to deal with but damn, Stern has been in this business how long?? When pinball machines are played with a steel ball, shits going to happen. Stuff is going to break, etc... I just think Stern has ALOT MORE ISSUES GOING ON than everyone else. Sorry Iceman44, that's just fact. Deal with it and get over it.

Nah, it's cuz everyone else had done it already, even boutique companies...they were dragged into it.

So far, LCD has proven one thing: It's just a score display. DMD games aren't dated because what's on the playfields is still far more advanced and impressive than anything so far in the "LCD era".

LCD hasn't been great. Clip shows that tend to be repetitive mixed in with fairly static status screens. I'm really waiting for more dynamic and interesting uses for the displays. So far, DMD dots are far superior to the LCD video clips.

Weird. The ones I have on route are making decent cash and are holding up quite well.

How are yours doing?

Well, people want to use anecdotal evidence for the argument. Him using anecdotal evidence against it. Others using anecdotal evidence for it.

There's no reason to even go that far, though. Anecdotal evidence of instances doesn't change the fact that probability exists. It actually proves probability exists.

You have materials of construction, which can be high or low quality. You have methods of construction which assemble the materials into a structure, which can be high quality or low quality. The quality of the final product is only as high as these two things. The quality of the product is the probability of failure in a given span, be it age or runtime.

Stern either uses lower quality materials or they do not. Stern either uses lower quality construction methods or they do not. If the sum of these two things is lower than the previous sum, then Stern is building lower quality games. If Stern is building lower quality games, the games will have a higher probability of failure in a given span.

Plain and simple.

GOTLE. Anyone think this is okay? It came like that and I did not complain. This was an LE that is $700.00 less than today's LEs. If this were today, I would be pissed off.

It's like anything else. At a certain price point, we all become more picky and expect better.

IMAG0662 (resized).jpg

I don’t think the real choice is between Stern making higher quality (lower margin) pins at the same price versus lower quality (higher margin) pins — I think the choice is between making lower quality (higher margin) pins or slot/redemption machines.

So I’m just trying to enjoy the pins, even with all of the negative baggage, because I'd put money on Stern's ownership group trying to move into slot/redemption within the decade.

Looks ok to me. My GOT has some crazing on the inserts as well, doesn't bother me any at all and is a fairly normal thing.

It's ebb and flow and the more you try and all cap it with hyperbole it's just not true.

They don't have ALOT more issues.

I'm happy I can play some great pins without issues. I'm getting an AFMLE and canceled my Stern. So you really need to get over it I think and see all sides.

Are actually even playing your DI yet?

Just curious, if Stern bothers you that much why even waste your time talking about it unless you just feel like trolling

No matter how many times you repeat the above it's not going to change anything

You are right, Stern definitely has ALOT more issues going on than any other pinball manufacturer out there. Wanna know why? It's because Stern sells a hell of alot more pinball machines than any other company, so it doesn't take a genius to realize that they are going to have ALOT more problems than anyone else.

Wait, so because they pump out 50 games a day you are saying Stern has a lot more problems?

Ok, that's logical

I'd say less problems on a pro rata basis

That's a ridiculous argument. It hinges on the belief that one is going by total numbers rather than percentage.

Composite playfields? Is that what this thread is turning into? No thanks.

I'd suggest that what he's saying is that if 1% of every pin is defective, you'll have 50 Stern owners complaining on here, vs 1 or 2 JJP guys.
Make sense?

Lol how is that a ridiculous argument???

It is your belief that individuals are saying that there is a higher total number of Stern machines with issues, rather than that there is a higher percentage of Stern machines with issue. That is an assumption that you are making. It is false.

He is assuming that people are saying 1% of Stern's, and thus a higher total number of machines, have issues compared to 1% of other manufacturers' machines. That is not the case. People are suggesting the % is higher on Stern's.

You have some facts to share that no one else does?

Now if you can only convince yourself to take your own advise on your own repetititve, banal posts...

I'm not assuming anything at all and I have no way of knowing what percentage of Stern games have major problems. All I am saying is that stern out produces every other pinball manufacturer by a mile. They probably sell a hundred games to their competitors one so naturally you are going to hear people complaining about stern games far more than a JJP, Heighway, or a Spooky game.

Stern also is a much much bigger operation so their QC probably isn't as good as a mom and pop pinball shop. Am I happy about that or do I think it's acceptable? No not at all but it's just how manufacturing works in general unfortunately.

Im not taking up for Stern and I definitely do believe that they need to improve in many areas, but they aren't nearly as sh*tty of a company as what alot of people on here are trying to make people believe either and say what you want, but they absolutely do stand behind their products. Thats all that I ask from them and my future purchases from them depends on it too. They start screwing people and they'll lose me forever.

The only part I disagree with is them standing behind their products. I have a long email thread with Patrick that I think would piss a lot of people off. Terrible customer service and made promises they simply didn't keep.

Yep.

Stern will be in for quite a surprise if they expect Joe Casino to accept the "we'll update that code soon" excuse.

That is what they are referring to. It's not a difficult concept.

They are referring to the percentage being higher, because the quality is lower. Trying to change the argument to be something which it is not is juvenile.

Quality control usually goes up as the business gets bigger, because there is more data available to study.

If the quality control goes down, it's just to increase profit margins in the short term.

Wrong

That's definitely unfortunate, sorry to hear that. What about your distributor, any help from them with the situation?

Nope. Went straight to the source and was never asked to engage the distro. Was told time and time again they were going to do something for my METLE with a splintered shooter lane with less than 500 plays. The clear had cracked so bad the actual wood was splintering. After 6 months and probably 10 emails they sent me a bottle of clear...

I'll be damned........learn something new every day

No. It's correct.

Was it just the shooter lane? Anywhere else on PF ?

You should try my Hobby Lobby felt protector!

Works great.

So let's see it

Strictly the shooter lane. Sold the game a long time ago. This was before it became normal.

Hi Pat,

It's been another 6 weeks since this email. Something needs to be done at this point. If you would have sent a replacement playfield back in November this would be closed. I didn't push for that and have been more than accomodating but 6 months to fix an issue that should not have happened in the first place is unacceptable. Stern needs to do something above and beyond the signed translite and hard coat. The machine was nearly $8000. I don't want to take this to Pinside but something needs to be done ASAP please.

Thank You,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Fri, Jan 23, 2015 5:17 pm
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted

Tom,

I’m sorry for the delay. The signed translite is in the B/O bin out in the parts department waiting on the hard coat which I should have next week.

Pat

From:
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 2:27 PM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Fwd: Inquiry Submitted

Pat,

Can you please give me an update on this? My request is more than 4 months old. I have been more than understanding about this.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From:
To: Patrick.Powers <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Jan 12, 2015 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Pat,

I hope you had a nice holiday season. Can you please send me the signed translite without the hard coat? This has gone on for several months and I don't have any confidence that it will actually come in. I have been extremely patient with this but I think my patience has about run out. To recap you were sending me a signed Monsters translite signed by Gary and the programmers.

Thank You,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wed, Dec 3, 2014 6:50 pm
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Tom,

Unfortunately I’m still waiting on the hard coat from our vendor. As soon as I receive the hard coat we’ll send your warrant items. I’m suspecting you might have a loose connector going to one of the opto amplifier boards (1-5) located under the playfield. Please check all connections.

Pat

From:
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:54 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Fwd: Inquiry Submitted

Hi Pat,

I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving and weekend. I wanted to follow-up on this email from 2 weeks ago. Can you give me an update as to where you are on the METLE my issues with STLE? My initial issue with METLE arose 2.5 months ago. I'd like to get this off my plate.

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From:
To: Patrick.Powers <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Nov 17, 2014 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Pat,

I hope you had a nice weekend.

I received the wiring harness for the METLE, thank you. Unfortunately, wouldn't you know it now the STLE is having issues. It is auto-launching balls and I'm getting an auto-launch switch error on the audits. From what I have read online it's a "drop target reset bracket" and is fixed with an "Advanced Repair Kit". Does that make sense to you? I'm attaching the sticker from the STLE as I don't think I've sent that one to you. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Thu, Nov 6, 2014 1:15 pm
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted
Yes I have your information in our system and I’ll send you a harness kit.

Pat

From:
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 9:36 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted

Hi Pat,

Okay, sounds good. I will not be back at the game for a couple weeks so if you could send the harness in the meantime that would be great! Do you still have my address? Thanks for everything.

-Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wed, Oct 29, 2014 7:33 pm
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Tom,

The hard coat is on backorder. As soon as it arrives we’ll send you both items.

I’ll send you a harness kit that will resolve your trough issue. In the meantime you could reseat the 2 and 3 pin connectors going to the trough’s optic boards. Have you tried blocking the optic for switch # 52 during switch test? Please call me if you need further instructions.

Regards,
Pat

From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:32 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted

Hello Pat.

I wanted to follow-up with you on this. I have not received the signed translite or the repair kit for my Metallica LE shooter lane issue. Also, I had two more issues arise this weekend and now the game is unplayable. I have two new errors:

Check Switch #52
Grave Marker Opto

and

3 Balls Missing

I spoke to a friend of mine and he said he had the same exact issue on his Transformers pin about the balls missing error so he looked at mine and said it was the exact same issue and it was due to an error with the "ball trough" opto. He received a new one from you guys and he said it resolved the problem. At this point I cannot even play the pin because it does not think there are any balls to play. Please let me know how you'd like to proceed.

Thanks,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers
To:
Sent: Wed, Sep 17, 2014 10:53 am
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Tom,

Please give me a call when you get a chance so we could discuss your game.

Regards,
Pat
(800) 542-5377

From:
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:58 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted

Hello Pat,

I was wondering if you have an update. I haven't heard from you since I sent the pic with the serial number.

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 10:52 am
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted

From:
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 9:40 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Re: Inquiry Submitted

Hi Patrick,

Thank you for the quick reply. That was impressive. Here are the pics of the shooter lane. You can see the wood is actually chipping right off on the left hand side and more chipping throughout the shooter lane. I added pics of my STLE in another email so you could compare. Night and day difference actually. My concern is the wood chipping, that seems excessive and worrisome for so little plays.

The LE number for METLE is 494 I believe. The pin is unfortunately 2 hrs away from me right now as I work far from my home. I don't know if the LE# is enough to go off of.

Please let me know and thanks for getting back to me.

-Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Powers <[email protected]>
To:
Cc: Parts.Service <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 10:18 am
Subject: RE: Inquiry Submitted
Hi Thomas,

Please send us some pictures of your playfield along with your game’s serial number.

Pat

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Inquiry Notification
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 9:09 AM
To: Patrick Powers
Subject: Inquiry Submitted

MinusWorlds submitted the following Warranties inquiry: Hello, I am the owner of a Metallica LE pin. The shooter lane is starting to chip severely. My game is not even a year old and has less than 1000 plays. I'm wondering options here to get this fixed. I have many detailed pics and feel this issue should not be happening on such a new game. This is my 5th pinball and I also have a Star Trek LE with 1800 plays and the shooter lane looks almost new on that. Please advise. Thanks! Please reply to: [email protected]

Couldn't grab the date code but my last email was in March of 15'. After my last email I got no reply. Just a bottle of clear in the mail, no translite.

Wtf LMAO

After all that??? Lol. Man, sorry about your luck, unreal.

Well, that sucks, but a couple of comments:

1) You are WAY to nice! Not that its a bad thing of course but that chain showed some big time patience and courtesy. No F bombs.

2) I know you went straight to the source but I would have gotten Chas involved on fixing the issues, and the distributor, that's their job to help you get issues resolved.

3) Why did you give up on the translite? Copy Gary and others.

At least you moved it on to somebody else who didn't care or had to the ability to repair it.

That's really embarrassing for Patrick.

Well, Ive seen it all now. Its his fault now for being nice. Should have seen that coming.

I didn't say its his fault, good lord. It was compliment to him and how he handled himself. It's obviously Patrick's fault and is terrible follow up and follow through, simple as that.

Minusworlds, you should have sent a profanity laced email, no wait, a few. That would have got things moving!

Im very curious....Did you really expect a replacement play filed due to shooter lane wear? If you were only looking for something to touch up the wear then its understandable to be upset that it took this long. But if you were expecting a new play field.......

Did you try and protect it with anything when you 1st bought it? Also how long have you been collecting pinball machines? Go take a look at any shooter lane that hasn't had some form of protection. This is usually the highest wear area on a play field.

1. All good, I try and treat people with respect. At the end of the day it's still just a toy.
2. Rookie mistake. Those were my first Sterns. Always had bought used Bally/Williams before that.
3. I was fed up honestly. It does suck because it actually turned me off on MET. It was just issue after issue with no support. Washed my hands of it and walked away. I missed out on a sick game.

The fucking shooter lane was splintering. I'm not talking about just cracked clear...

Message received, it was my fault.

Well you have a great attitude about it, onward and upward. Very frustrating.

Do you have any pics left over from what you sent Stern? Can you post them here?