Quoted from flashinstinct:

You haven't played many Stern games then. To call Star Wars the best game yet is hard to fathom... that would mean it's better than MET, TWD, ST, TRON to name just a few. I highly doubt star wars will be in the top 50 5 years from now.

Quoted from capguntrooper:

What he said!.........wait......what did he say?

Quoted from flashinstinct:

You haven't played many Stern games then. To call Star Wars the best game yet is hard to fathom... that would mean it's better than MET, TWD, ST, TRON to name just a few. I highly doubt star wars will be in the top 50 5 years from now.

Quoted from iceman44:

And then the final sentence that he's selling it next week. Had to be joking
White looks excellent Hank!
It bears repeating again, Stern simply has to get the coding issues ironed out before I jump in on another release as well.
BM66 will be great when finished but having to wait a full year to get it to an acceptable code level is VERY frustrating

Quoted from Who-Dey:

And don't forget, Dwight said that our GB is considered finished and it doesn't even have the final wizard mode yet!

Quoted from Who-Dey:

And don't forget, Dwight said that our GB is considered finished and it doesn't even have the final wizard mode yet! Everyone talks about how great he is but that's not too great if you ask me.

Quoted from DaveH:

"Who brought the dog?" IS the wizard mode. It is just a bit easier to get to than normal wizard modes.

Quoted from flashinstinct:

I highly doubt star wars will be in the top 50 5 years from now.

Quoted from iceman44:

Really frustrating. Our AS, as fun as it is, could use some more MB modes. Even unfinished Kiss has 5 i think.

Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Je répondais juste à ta question, si stern mettait la cle sous la porte, certains de leurs jeux verraient leur vote s'envoler comme B/W.

Quoted from zaphX:

So here's a 4K video of my playfield at 1000 plays.
I think it looks pretty great, personally.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B115idkMwRoxh4;6AC9F8EA-56D8-4239-9BBB-717C8FA9BCB6

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Instead of using the term, "bash", I would recommend changing the title to "manufacturing education" (or similar term), unless there is a preference to bait PinSide trolls for useless responses.
The facts do already exist for those that have watched the industry.
Reading for education, and a basic explanation.
This general subject area has already been discussed in this forum, other forums (innumerably), and other forms of social media.
This is not a particular complete "mystery" regarding reliability, serviceability, and durability of older titles made by previous manufacturers by companies such as Bally, Williams, and Gottlieb by conducting proper electronic and physical comparisons of all aspects of the games and manufacturers themselves. These terms I use, the "RSD" of pinball per say, as they are not all equal. However, there are examples of pinball manufacturers game designs that just were outright BAD. Playmatic and Mr Game come to mind. Unfortunately, and not to sound slighted, Stern games have never been built to the level of quality ever in comparison to BLY/WMS since 1977. All experienced operators know.
Remember specific titles are also important for purposes of "robustness" as some titles were better built in design than others historically on areas such as board sets, materials, or things such as playfield ramps, and not entirely based on heavy play on routes.
Simple examples would GTB SS80 games compared to early Bally (edge connectors, ground problems, power supplies), Bally-Midway games of the mid 1980s in comparison to Bally games made from 1979-1982 for areas such as cabinets (particle board materials as used in arcade games), Capcom board sets from 1995-1996 to BLY/WMS games of the same years (power board capacitor failures and some fusing problems), AGC cabinets in the early 90s comparative to BLY/WMS (poor silkscreening), or games made from BLY/WMS 1990-1999 in comparison to Stern games made from 1999-2009 (features and artwork simplifications).
Discussions exist of comparison of games made from Stern in 2011 and then fast forwarded to 2015 (solid state SMD electronics, and changes in CC formula, EPA standards, application thickness, application period, ink screening periods, wood drying, and curing).
This means other manufacturers also tried various "cost cutting" methods as well in the past, such as electronic components, connectors, socketing, fusing, power regulation, displays, cabinet making, and playfield composition especially when markets were harsh, not growing, which is an indication of winds of change in its own right. Stern is not unique here.
The comparisons in "passage of time" do exist for those that do wish to learn.
Some changes slipped by, some did not, some were not accepted readily or at all, but that was all in comparison to operators that reported them for reliability or durability concerns, not the growing number private owners that may not understand (or care) regarding the coin operated industry.
Some specific games have been discussed in extraordinary detail.
Overall, there are just too many topics listed in your initial thread post to cover in an individual response.
However, many older collectors, operators, and technicians have already made our final decisions governing present changes by Stern, namely stating:
"Stern will continue to construct easier to manufacture games to ensure maximum short term profits based on the market requirements with no significant concern for the future of the titles beyond 10 years of operation and reduce basic features that will be accepted or unnoticed by the private consumer."
This could have been quoted almost directly by Stern investment council around 2007.
This has never really been different in their business model since the the early 2000s. They are not JJP. I know this sounds extremely rough, but this is the reality. The only real difference is the prices kept rising unnecessarily since 2011, and the quality reversed. This is easy comparison when you sit a TSPP next to a SWLE or BM66SLE. It is a very bad joke. This is despite no one actually coming out a saying these direct words, including distributors. Stern "upped" the cabinet construction reinforcement recently (2017), because they had to, based on complaints. They simply could not avoid the controversy. Some current games may not last 5 years for full functionality of board failures. Stern continues build, outsource, and diversify their company to increase profits in expanding foreign markets and provide a potential cushion against economic recession in the United States and survive again in the future. They learned from their mistakes of the past.
This process "cost cutting" occurred long before the last two years of the SPIKE introduction, if an owner was observing.
Granted, games were never necessarily designed to last 20-30 years, but if cared for properly, and built well to COMMERCIAL STANDARDS, they do, as I can attest from games I own that are well over 50 years old.
This mindset is not being applied to Stern's present games for construction, but akin to disposal consumer electronics, not commercial devices. We are only about two steps away from having the coin door removed, coin mechs are already an "option" for some other manufacturers, and was already tried with Stern's home edition game, "The Pin".
In summary it is the term, "paying more for less" (now nearly double or more in certain cases for reduxed playfield designs) which was a result of several major market changes which occurred since 2011, but particularly not only the resurgence of interest in pinball (again) and the introduction of JJP as a potential competitor which eventually materialized in 2013.
If all this is acceptable to some, so be it, but that does not mean I have to agree as "old" collector.
If Stern wants to reduce the quality of the their games, the prices have to return to at least equitable operator level.
This is only a recent "revelation" to some, and something I and others continue to watch from a distance as we "bowed out" long before the tidal wave begins to slowly crash over the market surf that has already started as prices have begun to peak.
If you have not already watched this very specific video, this is a good start for additional education without creating further controversy or responses of denial by owners that may have just joined the pinball hobby in the past 7 years.
I would recommend you also read the comments BELOW this video for additional areas of changes of people that actually have conducted research and observations, not general enthusiast opinions.
A decision can then be better determined by an individual, the consumer, of what constitutes a proper "value for cost" and how the games will actually hold up in the long term.
If there are additional questions, you may contact me or I can redirect to others.
» YouTube video

Quoted from zaphX:

So here's a 4K video of my playfield at 1000 plays.
I think it looks pretty great, personally.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B115idkMwRoxh4;6AC9F8EA-56D8-4239-9BBB-717C8FA9BCB6

Quoted from ExtremePinball:

See, that's the problem. My SW pro, the last time I checked it, had 9 ghosting inserts at 1,900 plays. But then I was at the PHoF this week and played Tim's SW pro. No ghosting inserts. And he got his a week or two before I got mine.
So there is clearly still a risk in buying NIB Stern games. I think that justifies the current Stern bashing. But that's just my opinion after recently having 3 defective playfields with 6-9 ghosting inserts.
So bash on.
Disclaimer: I am not a collector. I am not looking for solutions or any suggestions regarding these games. They are only commercial workhorses to me. I've stated this explicitly in another thread..... I DON'T CARE. But others do. So I'm only providing facts based on my experience as an operator, and former collector, so that others can make an informed decision before laying out ever growing sums of money.

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Lol I tell ya what, if Stay Puft mode wasn't on that ladder I would never play that ladder again because of that damn mode! I'm seriously sick of hearing that. Lol.

Quoted from spidey:

You can cancel the callout with a double flip.

Quoted from capguntrooper:

What he said!.........wait......what did he say?

Quoted from jlm33:

The value of modern Sterns would increase if Stern goes Belly up.
I would add: and prices for B/W as well.

Quoted from jlm33:

The value of modern Sterns would increase if Stern goes Belly up.
I would add: and prices for B/W as well.

Quoted from bigd1979:

Played all the new stern pins this weekend and was very underwhelmed except for aerosmith pro and premium. I will get a pro down the road . It has it all imo where sw, bat66 , gb( bad design) just seem to be missing something especially sw pro and premium. Which sucks bc i was gonna get a sw pro but it left us cold so its off my list.

Quoted from beelzeboob:

That's the game that gets played the most in my house. Added new speakers and a subwoofer and tweaked the cheap drains. It's really a great game and the impending code update will only make it better. Next time you're in Jersey...

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

is MET spike or Sam?

Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

You have AS?

Quoted from Colsond3:

I haven't posted on here much in a while, but picked this sweet baby up yesterday. Super stoked. August 2015 build date. No cab separation....minty HUO example.
Bonus...now people can't tell me I can't say anything about modern Sterns because I don't own one.

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Sam you say? I may consider trading my GB premium for MET pro then.

Quoted from Procrastinator:

Updated with more pins:
Not all the way finished, but using a rebound tester, and configuring for somewhere between hardwood and bronze, I got some interesting results. The problem is trying to get a reading through the clear, which is obviously changing the hardness of the material.
Average of 5 readings just above the valley on the shooter lane. HB is the unit of measurement, but it a complicated answer as to what the scale exactly is.
MMR: 119 HB
LOTRLE: 178 HB
TSPP: 138 HB (mini playfield was 153 HB)
TH: 163 HB
WOZ: 184 HB
I will do a GB and a MET On my way back from dinner and will update the results.
Updated list with more games:
MET: 157 HB
GB PRO: 92-104 HB (92 was at shooter lane, 104 was highest result elsewhere on the untouched portions of the playfield, 3 ghosted inserts)
NGG: 181 HB
TOM: 170 HB
AFM: 177 HB
TRON: 155 HB
GB PRE: 133 HB
ST PRE: 161 HB
Updated: With the updated results, especially with the ghosted one, it's pretty clear whatever they are doing with the wood has an effect. I checked the GB PRO all over, just to make sure I wasn't getting an erroneous reading. There was also a visible difference between the softer games and the harder games as far as playfield quality and condition. I don't really know what the fix is or what any of this really means as far as a solution, but at least their is verifiable data from a calibrated test device that we can go off. Also, we do rent this gear out, so stern is more than welcome to grab some equipment for their QC shop if so desired.
So far I was really surprised by the vast differences in hardness, as a typical steel pinball would be in the 450 HB range the way the unit is configured. Keep in mind, these were the average of 5 readings from the same spot (I did some reference checks around the playfield and all results were within 5%). I always thought my MMR had some funky looking dimples, but nothing out of hand. I do Now know why my LOTR has always looked perfect, even after hundreds of plays, and it has something to with it being "harder" would be my guess. Either way, take what you will from the data, but it's not everyday you can use a $10k hardness tester for a god damn pinball playfield (I think I crossed a line of being "too into" the hobby and need to step back. Haha)

Quoted from Leveeger:

Dear Procrastinator.
Hi, I would be interested how you have perfomed this HB testing as the level of your results seems unfamiliar to me (I'm working in aeronautics into a machining domain)...
In fact if you google Wikipedia and Brinnel, in general a ball of 10 mm is used (around 3/8") under a charge of 29.430N for a period of 10 to 15 seconds. The scale of measure for a steel ball is HBS (HBW if a ball of tungsten is used, but this is for hardest metals).
Soft wood (pine) = 1.6 HBS
Hard wood = 2.6 to 7.0 HBS
Aluminium (not heat treated) = 15 HBS
Copper = 35 HBS
Soft steel = 120 HBS
Stainless steel = 250 HBS
Hard steel = 650 to 700 HBS...
When I see you have measured a minimum of 92 HB and a maxi of 184 HB (for maple plywood) then I'm wondering about the method you have used... Could you please make a clarification?

Quoted from gliebig:

I played SWLE at the York show this weekend. That fighter on a stick..... BWAHAHAHAHA

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The issue is not Stern's programmers, who are very talented, but rather Stern management who is rushing programmers from one project to the next due to the number of titles they are making per year.

Quoted from gweempose:

SAM
And for those of you who aren't happy with the products that Stern is pumping out, I have just one piece of advice ...
Stop buying their games!!!
Seriously, this is the only way the situation will ever improve. I know so many guys that constantly complain about Stern's crappy code or lack of quality control, and yet these same people pre-order every LE. It's absolutely ridiculous!

Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

You know so many folks who buy every LE, complain about them and then keep buying them? Like who?

Quoted from beelzeboob:

...just like Sparky in Metallica.

Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

You know so many folks who buy every LE, complain about them and then keep buying them? Like who?

Quoted from gliebig:

Yeah, just like that.

Quoted from beelzeboob:

Sure looks like a bobblehead to me. Just add a TIE fighter!
» YouTube video

Quoted from gweempose:

SAM
And for those of you who aren't happy with the products that Stern is pumping out, I have just one piece of advice ...
Stop buying their games!!!
Seriously, this is the only way the situation will ever improve. I know so many guys that constantly complain about Stern's crappy code or lack of quality control, and yet these same people pre-order every LE. It's absolutely ridiculous!

Quoted from Colsond3:

Difference - Sparky is actually interactive, and has its own mech. Tie fighter in SW is equivalent to a corn dog on a stick.