Prices may not come down, but features could come up

It's about getting value for your money. Someone please try and argue that Star Wars is a good value. PLEASE. I need a good laugh.

Well, 3000 plays in 2 months on location means it's a heck of a value to me.

I've seriously considered it with AC/DC. I have the Pro VE, and I've debated the Prem VE. If I had more space I'd probably do it. Great game.

In absolute dollars, Stern and it's not close.

On a per unit produced basis, which is what matters, Stern is at the bottom and it's not close.

Its a great playing game and I believe the pro is worth it anyway.

no, because they know they can still make money by lowering the price. they would have to be a bunch of dumbasses, to refuse to fix the business model that shot themselves in the foot and just close the doors, instead of making 300% profit margin.

I agree with you and wish it worked that way but it doesn't, is it stupid? yes, is that how it works? yes, will prices go down, No?

we don't know because people are still lining up to buy games, even thou prices go up every release. Until the buying stops, we wont' know if they will smarten up and know it's because of price gouging or will they try and blame other factors, so it doesn't look like it's their fault? (ie: license sucked, designer sucked, art sucked)

Don't agree with this at all. Maybe if every title they sold was a major hit. Sometimes they run into a Game like Mustang, WWE, Rolling Stones or any other game that doesn't sell well. They probably employ 10 times as many people as the other companies combined. They have a game that doesn't sell well it hurts their bottom line & so when they end up with a hit they can make up for titles that done sell as well as anticipated.

Bottom line if you don't like the prices quit your crying & don't buy any. But i'm tired of crybabies (won't name any names but people know who) telling us what we should or should spend our money on.

People does what they want with his money...

For some money is not a matter... Can spend without counting...

Let's see what happen when prices rise up next year...?

I love all these guys rushing out to buy Star Wars LE pins.

Tough to argue.

I got in about 20 games on a Pro at Jillys in Ocean City, NJ. I watched as even diehard Star Wars fans walked away from the machine disappointed. One game was enough for most.

Most Star Wars fans aren't pinball fans though. More than likely just checking it out.

Bad games don't hurt their bottom line like they used to. In the past, a bad title wouldn't sell, and would then go on closeout. You could buy a fully built game at a much cheaper price. You don't see that anymore because now they build on demand. There are not 30 extra cabinets printed and ready for a particular game, there are 30 sets of stickers (MUCH less expensive to them). There is the first run of playfields and the first batch of game particular parts, but again, they are not assembled (the big cost in a playfield).

A bad game just doesn't have that bad an impact on the bottom line. The real cost was the lost opportunity of having them on the line when they could have made a popular game going. Now if a game isn't selling well they can react to that quickly and stop making it. If it starts selling later, they are ready to go.

If one game is enough to past judgment then they aren't pinball players, they are douche bags trying a game with the SW all over it, I doubt they are buying the pin or returning to dump money into it on site, the pin is amazing and this horseshit regarding value is just that horseshit, IM, GOT,TRON, many open concept fast games are considered some of the best out there, just because they aren't toys are all over it and magnets underneath doesn't make it a good pin.

It's still the worst theme integration in recent history, still ghosting inserts, still crap code and scoring. Still cut and paste scenes and call outs. Can we get real here folks?

Stern is the only one that could 100% survive two bad titles in a row at this point. Due to the fact that they have the efficiencies and volume to offset it. If something doesn't sell well it is not stopping their production lines and they aren't sitting on inventory because there's such a thing as planning. They would simply move back to producing more machines that are still in demand.

No other manufacturer has that advantage. Who has more overhead, Walmart or the mom and pop store down the street? Who can sell and source at a lower price? What is your actual contention here?

Don't forget, if Stern is forecasting a little slowdown, they just need to release a VE. Look at Iron Man VE. 2 runs that were not very big.

more horseshit.

Agreed. The theme integration and code are great. Just haters.

I never said fun or good pin. I said value. There's a difference. You don't think it's coincidence the BOM on Star Wars is a lot less than say, GB? Sure licensing costs may have had something to do with it but if you think for a second it didn't have to do with "It will sell anyway" mentality so let's up the profit margins you are sorely mistaken. That's the shit that pisses off pinheads.

I ask this be stricken from the record your honor. The poster is wearing a Boba Fett helmet in his avatar. Clearly biased. I asked he be removed from the courtroom.

If you like a snowglobe and a tie fighter on a stick!.

Code wise I would say Dwight has done a good job to release more substance than past releases so I can't fault them too much on that. When you compare launch code for SW VS BM66....well you can't compare.

Layout wise this game is just plain boring. I would have taken a smash Jaba mech that rolls back to lock the balls anyday, or a freezing mech that drops the balls and freeze han solo MB, or magnets for "The Force", Jedi progression, Cloud City, AT AT, x-wing......just something.

Edit: GI animation is really good too

I was a star wars fan, and the DE SW blew me away. I was relatively new at the time when it came out and didn't know pinball all that well. If I would have seen the Stern SW back then. I would have been like....Meh :/

You're out of order, and you're out of order...this whole goddamn Jedi Council is out of order!!!!

I am buying two LE's, one I am not opening until 2025.

I suppose you may be correct, but all of them went on to play multiple games on AS Pro and Spider-Man which were all in the same row.

IM just feels like a much better package to me. The theme integration and the Iron Monger are phenomenal on that game. It just feels right.

I hope SW grows on me.

perfect, so when the boards are obsolete and you find out yours is dead out of the box, now you have no way to fix it or play it.

That is sad.

Shoot the lit arrow... and watch some movie clips. There is virtually any cross over between the rule design and the multi-media. It's a pinball game with star wars media laid on top... with little linking them.

The Gandolf-guy as the only custom speech is just salt in the wound.

Are you sure you know what "theme integration" means?

Look, I think SW is a good game, just not a great game. But, theme integration is FAR from great.

Do not want to interrupt this "God bless Stern" enthusiasm . However, can someone explain to me why the US prices of these machines fall in second hand, and the williams/bally prices rise or at least are steady ?

I have the explanation

Yep....should have had a Carbonite Chamber ball lock. Magnet & desending ball lock below the playfield to a subway, similar to TOTAN. Fricking no brainer, along with a tons of "force magnets" screwing or saving the ball from outlanes.

Sigh. I am a mega SW fan, and I will never get over the fact that this SW pin just has so much lost potential. Could have been incredible. Shame.

Because why would anything used appreciate when its available new for less

Old games are a dying breed with more demand than supply... Stern games are rolling off the factory lines as supply dictates.

It's also bullshit but who's counting

When you factor in inflation (and even if you don't), most 90s Williams Bally games are worth less than they sold for when brand new.

When you look at newer Stern games in the aftermarket, you are hard pressed to find significant depreciation on asking prices. You are lucky to save 500 bucks buying a late-model stern in the aftermarket. The entire market is strong right now.

I'd say most EMs are worth more now than they were when brand new.

Between all the horse and bull, I'm losing track of my shits in this thread.

I hope all the characters are not force ghosts when you open it.

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Guys, this was a slam dunk for a cargument and you missed it!

https://urbandictionary.store/products/mug?defid=5832287

No argument, I hope

After adjusting for inflation, what percentage of B/W games sell for more than their original price today? 2%?

As to those 2% though, the answer clearly must be "theme integration." Which I guess is this week's "world under glass."

Good ! Agree. What percentage on Stern machines ? 2% ? You re lucky man !

What do you think it'd happen if Stern closed down?

J'en pense rien je m'en foutrais complet

I know that on the french forum, there are big fans of Stern machines, because the game is fluent, themes match todays's mood, they are bright and so many other reasons.
Honestly, the question is not "must Stern close or not ?"

It is (for me) "when will they deliver quality playfields", "why are there less and less features for a higher and higher price", "why creativity is poorer than 20 years ago", "why is it commonly accepted that they can be little defects like switches to adjust, stickers or bulbs loose etc., on a brand new expensive stuff".

That's my point, and I am happy that challengers come to the market for a few years now. Hopefully, the pinball future will be bright

I think everyone loves Stern games. I know that I do.

However, at these prices the deficiencies which have been discussed are unacceptable.

Well I'm loving Star Wars premium and I've had some issues. Had a shaker take out the node board. Have some imperfections in playfield, but it's cool enough that I pimped it out.

Personally, I'm going to be more picky and make sure code is further along on future purchases

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Love the white trim...looks great

Je répondais juste à ta question, si stern mettait la cle sous la porte, certains de leurs jeux verraient leur vote s'envoler comme B/W.

Moderator Translation:
The value of modern Sterns would increase if Stern goes Belly up.

I would add: and prices for B/W as well.

What he said!.........wait......what did he say?

You haven't played many Stern games then. To call Star Wars the best game yet is hard to fathom... that would mean it's better than MET, TWD, ST, TRON to name just a few. I highly doubt star wars will be in the top 50 5 years from now.