I am not the first to complain about this. So I guess I am not completely wrong. And no You can't see the ball coming unless you significantly move.
Met hammer, GB inlanes, creature etc it's less a problem for these games than ACDC coz it doesn't concern a critical area where you can loose the ball.
Anyway, I hate the gameplay and it would have changed nothing.

I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm just saying that it's interesting how people have different experiences. For me, the cannon isn't that big, I can always see the ball coming, and for that millisecond that it's obstructed, I can "feel" the ball...I can tell where it is based on where it came from and from the ball's physics.

Same thing with glass reflection. Some people are so annoyed by it that they insist on buying non-reflective glass. Glass reflection rarely bothers me at all...my eyes can focus past the glass and onto the playfield. Some people can't do that, apparently.

Well...all of those, yes (although they're really unfounded). But there have been people that don't like the fact you can't see the ball for the entire upper left quadrant of the playfield.

(Anyone who thinks the upper playfield is lame hasn't reached castle multiball yet...there are a lot of goals up there on your path to that!)

Texan? Shoot first ask questions later? I kid i kid....

Stern was hacked see link for details and how to safe guard your computer and identity.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-hacked-do-not-open-invoice-emails-from-stern#post-3975943

I reckon yer right pawdner

Please visit and join this non US pinball site, we'll be delighted to welcome you, in english

www.ericpinballforum.be

Hey thanks

Danke.

Well it is a slight point that you dnt know how far up the ramp the ball DOES NOT go, and as such you have less time to prepare for a SDTM save

Oh well, love my got pro anyhow.

Never been an issue for me. I think you can tell if you've hit the ball hard enough or not. Or maybe I'm just used to it since I have an IJ and it's essentially the same thing with the blockage from the upper pf. Same thing on WOZ, too. *shrug*

I got my first JJP game RR Woz with RadCals it's so well made and solid there is no comparison to Stern build quality. I think Stern did great on the pro pins Met pro, TWD pro, IMVE, Tron (I don't have any Spike system so I can't say how solid they are) but to look at the quality of their $8000 LE pins just can not believe the cost cutting is so blatant in such a high price version.

Let alone the $15K SLE version costing more 3x what my Tron, IM, TWD, Met pros cost. I think Stern was on thin ice with price/value before SLE cash grab but that did it for me. If they wanted to charge $15k fine but it should have been the best pin ever made and it's not it's more or less a modification to BTDK with an LCD added.

Woz has had over 40+ code updates and counting. Stern code is hit or miss, they **refuse** to fix known bugs or clean up the rules unless the lead programmer does so off the clock.

I've owned 10 Stern pins but unlikely to buy another unless its a screaming great deal resale.

One day with a WOZ and you've already gone full blown Panzerfreak on us. Can't wait until you start harping about toys.

And magnets!

And Jack saved Pinball!! (Sorry wrong thread).

AND THAT IS JUST WRONG. The programmer if fixes on their own time should receive a damn big bonus BIG BONUS / Whomever finished Met Premium code deserves 10k bonus(less than one BM66Sle) / it was so good they remade the game and still they sold out again .
I will never buy a NIB game EVER again .

I Agree 15k for a Turd game like BM66 is just plain Insane!. It's no Harley and can get a 2017 Fatbob s for less than that Borefest.

$15k for any game is insane. BM66 will be a great pin.

EVERY single $8k and over pin will get its ass hammered on the secondary market. Doesn't matter if its made like a football blocking sled.

Why? Because we don't use our pins as blocking sleds.

I'd say the majority of $8k pins. I do not see MMR or AFMLE getting hammered. I think those games may sell between $7800 - $8500 on the secondary market, once done.

I think maybe 1 out of 20 will hold value.

AC/DC Luci held and I think ACDC would have held at $8k.

If Tron were $8k, it would hold.

Metallica LE is close

BM66LE may hold at 8500 ish, but it cost much more.

All others have not held or would not hold at $8k or above

Turd Game was a bit rather harsh but having had played it . Not much going on . Even if they get a code Update that rocks . I did not enjoy the shots and the sounds all that much . But it is all up to preference . And agree with you any game 7 k and over may get hammered since better coded oldies are much less with exception of a few like MM AFM CV CC BBB ToTAN TOM which to me when I first got in pins in 08 thought were way Overpriced for me . Now sitting here with the collection of new pins see them prices as equal to this Inflation we see now .
Now with the Crapshoot of quality and price so high, It is better to let someone else drive it off the lot and buy second hand . Unfortunate yes."
Whomever said that the codes will never get done on most newer games is probably right as they release to many to soon and can not catch up to the current game and unless they do it on their own time it may never get done , I agree

Take into account if game sells well, a Vault edition is sure to be released for a cash grab which throws out the collectible aspect of the game if it sold well.

TRUE LOCAL STORY:
Last week, a "new pinball money" owner here in the PNW bought a Stern SW LE "sight unseen" NIB, and never played any version of the game beforehand even though there are multiple copies here all over the "mecha" pinball region of Portland.
A week later, he asked a long known technician friend of mine, if he traded this game for another owner with CV was a good idea.
The answer was "Hell yes!"
Game was traded immediately.

Simple example of reality.
It is not about 'turds', it is about what is being done in the industry.

People are starting to figure things out, and the rest will continue to defend purchases under perpetuating losing conditions.
HUO game prices are dropping as the market continues to saturate.
"Top 10" cookie cutter collection titles are steadying.
Stern is going back to the mid 2000s in terms of development and quality of games at 2X the price, and 4X the price of games made in the 90s.
SPIKE system games made in 2015 already have obsolete board sets that will be NLA in less than 5 years with no viable replacements.
In 10 years, some Stern games will be unrepairable.
There are better choices.

"Denial is a terrible thing based on the vanity mirror it provides."

Yes absolutely they deserve it. It's like buying a hamburger thinking u are gonna get the burger the buns catchup mustard mayo. But u only get the top half of the bun and the burger Then wait and wait and it never does u never get it. If I did business that way I would not have a job.

A hamburgument!

Is this a Pinside first?

Haha that's funny
This though has made me hold from buying future sterns
My first was gb and maybe my last until I know they complete their burgers

So it's settled then, close the thread, it's all about the burger. Here's ours that's eaten on a daily NIB basis.....

image (resized).jpg

And here's Gary's

image (resized).jpg

"that's no bun...it's a space station"

Stern stepped up and took care of my SMVE playfield and GB Pro playfield. I'd rather not have to swap them out, but both playfield are perfect now.

I don't like the cost / feature cutting, but it's nice to get a NIB pin delivered to your door for a bit over $5k.

It's even better to get a HUO game pre "ghosting is normal" for lower $4K. And if you feel the need just put in a box and take it out again. You still get the nice "newish" feeling and you can tell Stern to suck it up.

Hi,

I understand well what you mean, but I'd like to remind you obsolescence is not a new thing... GTB system 1 stayed out of order for a while until Pascal boards were set on the market. I'm sure somebody will make his business one day to remedy the problem.

Of course it was easier to repair old bords than with new SMD components... And nobody knows how long these new boards will stay in service without any failure... But this is also part of Stern Business, to sell spares... By the end, bad quality can be a business model... Stern model...

Yeah but the theme sucks and for me its not that fun to shoot at all, build quality right? I would much rather play TWD or MET.

Agreed, MET is an awful theme, but I own a Pro and Premium because the gameplay is top notch.

I liked it better 8 years ago, when I could have the exact same thing, but the "full" version and it cost $3400. That's right. $3400 just 8 years ago. Either the price of wood, steel and wire has drastically shot up in price and doubled in 8 short years, or someone is really getting fat pockets. I wonder what it could be?

U own 2 models of the same game? that makes sense.
I liked Met until the black album and thusly while I enjoyed the pin it didn't last long, great gameplay but I couldn't past Sandman and Fuel all those terrible songs and sold it, if you think Met is an awful theme but play it anyway because of the action thats very strange too me, but to each his own. Then again if I'm at a bar and on the patio lets say and theres a man in sandals out there, I leave the bar so I'm sick. but happy.

I'm sure the cost of business has gone up. Those things i'm sure have gone up along with Labor, new building, etc etc. Can still get Pro's for right around 5k and many of them are great games.

That's why I choose NIB Pro in many cases. HUO Sterns are rarely low 4's. Usually mid to high 4's or higher for some out of production titles. By the time I take time to pick it up (in my case rent a truck too) I'd rather have it delivered right to my house.

really? You really buy that BS? You know how much the price of pinballs increased the 8 years before that? $300-400. So magically, all that stuff became more expensive the last 8 years, more than the 8 years before that? It's all bullshit. If you guys think for one second that Stern can't crank these games out for under 3k anymore.......then the wool has been pulled over your eyes.

Look in '97 MM sold NIB for between $3200 and $3600. If you use an inflation calculator that is indeed around 5K these days.

You can debate if the features and quality are comparable.

well considering I bought NIB from stern in 2009 for $3400. That's equal to 0% inflation for 12 years before.

Yeah I forget what I paid for my LOTR and TSPP but now they look like a hell of a bargain.

Yeah, and they needed a bailout to survive.

I own 3 Metallicas, 3 Walking Dead, and multiples of other titles. That should really get your head beating against a wall for the rest of the evening.





Or you consider the fact that not everybody is a collector of pins. Some people, generally called operators, make money with these machines. You know, the way Go.....Gary intended.

Well that makes sense but then that changes the whole reason for owning several pins of the same title, an operator would buy a shitty pin if it earned well, he made it out like Met is so great I have both a Pre and Pro, I assumed he was an operator but had to be a jackass, its fun sometimes, just like you with the explanation of what an "operator" is. What r these op por a tors you speak of sir? see back to me being the jackass. I love it.

WTF do you think Stern is a Non-Profit organization? How much do you think it Costs JJP or Spooky to Make pinball machines? Pretty sure both are charging more then what it costs for a NIB Stern Pro. Do you think either of them have the same amount of over-head that Stern has???

Man if you don't like it fine don't buy it. But give it a f'n rest we all get that you don't like the price of NIB games. Go find a beater to restore or whatever makes you happy. It seems like every 2 weeks all you do is whine & cry about the cost of NIB games these day.

Lol. How do you really feel?

More than Stern.

Price is what it is the market corrects that. Surprisingly though incomplete product should shake out too. But they just keep on moving forward. And people keep buying

Metallica really is that great to some. It certainly was to me a few years ago. While I have two heavily modded MET Pro out earning, I also have a MET Premium with DD painted toys & autographed back glass, 1 of 25. That's my keeper.

And who do you feel has the most overhead involved in building games?

the prices are what they are at because of the buyers. If the buyers refused the price. the prices would go back to normal. As long as you guys keep lining up, the prices are going to continue to go up every release until people stop.

Maybe or maybe that will be the end of new pinball machines being made, prices will not go down.