New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 197082)

Stern Bashing. Justified?


By erak

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 806 posts
  • 142 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by CaptainNeo
  • Topic is favorited by 14 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 65 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    Screenshot_20171010-005748 (resized).png
    21192074_10154568550177924_235036763317045450_n (resized).jpg
    IMG_1333 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2519 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2517 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2515 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2514 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2511 (resized).JPG
    IMAG0710 (resized).jpg
    IMAG0705 (resized).jpg
    IMAG0704 (resized).jpg
    hanghost (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    stern-WTF- (resized).jpg
    fly in ointment.jpg

    There are 806 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 17.
    #1 3 years ago

    I was thinking today...
    What do you get today for your money with a new Stern compared to years ago?

    I was hoping to get some feedback or start to do comparisons of actual hardware etc.

    We all know about the head latch, Lockbar, and head being changed. And service rails.
    And decaled cabinets.
    And lack of finished code on initial release, but mainly much deeper when finished.
    LCD vs DMD
    3 model price point.
    Less circuit boards inside.

    But I was wondering if....
    Eg.
    Are the metal pieces the same thickness and material?
    What is different about the clearcoat?
    Are the cabinets built the same way/ materials?
    Are the new aluminum foiled CEM circuit boards the same quality? And will they last?
    Are the legs, coindoor and other hardware the same quality?

    Because after talking to a local operator. He thinks all models of Stern machines are no longer arcade quality.
    They are all now built solely for the home collection market.

    And that's why in his mind, the price has increased but the quality has dropped.
    "You are basically buying a high priced toy instead of arcade equipment."

    And I sort of feel the same way.
    But would love to hear some facts that will hopefully change that.

    I was hoping that knowledgable pinsiders could get together and actually compare just how many improvements and/or how much cost cutting has been done. I'm sure there are some mechanical and electrical engineers here. That can shed some light on this.

    I do appreciate Stern keeping pinball alive.
    But with all the posts on pinside about Stern quality.
    It seems like lately they are almost equal to chinese knockoffs. Compared to how they used to be built. Rather than long-term use industrial amusement equipment.

    I am all for pinball turning a profit. But when it seems like it is seriously effecting the quality that concerns me.

    Please. I mean no distrespect to stern its machine owners or fans. I am just looking for a rational discussion and hope to find actual facts.

    And if I'm out of line here, tell me.

    #2 3 years ago

    And sorry for the long post.

    The only other reason I can see that Stern is having so many quality issues is that NIB owners are way too picky about their machines. And operators didn't care as long as they made money.
    But there are a lot of 20-30 year old pins that were routed that seem to have faired better than a 2-3 year huo pin.
    Wondering why?

    52
    #3 3 years ago

    Instead of using the term, "bash", I would recommend changing the title to "manufacturing education" (or similar term), unless there is a preference to bait PinSide trolls for useless responses.

    The facts do already exist for those that have watched the industry.
    Reading for education, and a basic explanation.

    This general subject area has already been discussed in this forum, other forums (innumerably), and other forms of social media.
    This is not a particular complete "mystery" regarding reliability, serviceability, and durability of older titles made by previous manufacturers by companies such as Bally, Williams, and Gottlieb by conducting proper electronic and physical comparisons of all aspects of the games and manufacturers themselves. These terms I use, the "RSD" of pinball per say, as they are not all equal. However, there are examples of pinball manufacturers game designs that just were outright BAD. Playmatic and Mr Game come to mind. Unfortunately, and not to sound slighted, Stern games have never been built to the level of quality ever in comparison to BLY/WMS since 1977. All experienced operators know.

    Remember specific titles are also important for purposes of "robustness" as some titles were better built in design than others historically on areas such as board sets, materials, or things such as playfield ramps, and not entirely based on heavy play on routes.
    Simple examples would GTB SS80 games compared to early Bally (edge connectors, ground problems, power supplies), Bally-Midway games of the mid 1980s in comparison to Bally games made from 1979-1982 for areas such as cabinets (particle board materials as used in arcade games), Capcom board sets from 1995-1996 to BLY/WMS games of the same years (power board capacitor failures and some fusing problems), AGC cabinets in the early 90s comparative to BLY/WMS (poor silkscreening), or games made from BLY/WMS 1990-1999 in comparison to Stern games made from 1999-2009 (features and artwork simplifications).
    Discussions exist of comparison of games made from Stern in 2011 and then fast forwarded to 2015 (solid state SMD electronics, and changes in CC formula, EPA standards, application thickness, application period, ink screening periods, wood drying, and curing).

    This means other manufacturers also tried various "cost cutting" methods as well in the past, such as electronic components, connectors, socketing, fusing, power regulation, displays, cabinet making, and playfield composition especially when markets were harsh, not growing, which is an indication of winds of change in its own right. Stern is not unique here.

    The comparisons in "passage of time" do exist for those that do wish to learn.
    Some changes slipped by, some did not, some were not accepted readily or at all, but that was all in comparison to operators that reported them for reliability or durability concerns, not the growing number private owners that may not understand (or care) regarding the coin operated industry.
    Some specific games have been discussed in extraordinary detail.

    Overall, there are just too many topics listed in your initial thread post to cover in an individual response.

    However, many older collectors, operators, and technicians have already made our final decisions governing present changes by Stern, namely stating:
    "Stern will continue to construct easier to manufacture games to ensure maximum short term profits based on the market requirements with no significant concern for the future of the titles beyond 10 years of operation and reduce basic features that will be accepted or unnoticed by the private consumer."

    This could have been quoted almost directly by Stern investment council around 2007.

    This has never really been different in their business model since the the early 2000s. They are not JJP. I know this sounds extremely rough, but this is the reality. The only real difference is the prices kept rising unnecessarily since 2011, and the quality reversed. This is easy comparison when you sit a TSPP next to a SWLE or BM66SLE. It is a very bad joke. This is despite no one actually coming out a saying these direct words, including distributors. Stern "upped" the cabinet construction reinforcement recently (2017), because they had to, based on complaints. They simply could not avoid the controversy. Some current games may not last 5 years for full functionality of board failures. Stern continues build, outsource, and diversify their company to increase profits in expanding foreign markets and provide a potential cushion against economic recession in the United States and survive again in the future. They learned from their mistakes of the past.

    This process "cost cutting" occurred long before the last two years of the SPIKE introduction, if an owner was observing.
    Granted, games were never necessarily designed to last 20-30 years, but if cared for properly, and built well to COMMERCIAL STANDARDS, they do, as I can attest from games I own that are well over 50 years old.
    This mindset is not being applied to Stern's present games for construction, but akin to disposal consumer electronics, not commercial devices. We are only about two steps away from having the coin door removed, coin mechs are already an "option" for some other manufacturers, and was already tried with Stern's home edition game, "The Pin".

    In summary it is the term, "paying more for less" (now nearly double or more in certain cases for reduxed playfield designs) which was a result of several major market changes which occurred since 2011, but particularly not only the resurgence of interest in pinball (again) and the introduction of JJP as a potential competitor which eventually materialized in 2013.

    If all this is acceptable to some, so be it, but that does not mean I have to agree as "old" collector.
    If Stern wants to reduce the quality of the their games, the prices have to return to at least equitable operator level.
    This is only a recent "revelation" to some, and something I and others continue to watch from a distance as we "bowed out" long before the tidal wave begins to slowly crash over the market surf that has already started as prices have begun to peak.

    If you have not already watched this very specific video, this is a good start for additional education without creating further controversy or responses of denial by owners that may have just joined the pinball hobby in the past 7 years.

    I would recommend you also read the comments BELOW this video for additional areas of changes of people that actually have conducted research and observations, not general enthusiast opinions.
    A decision can then be better determined by an individual, the consumer, of what constitutes a proper "value for cost" and how the games will actually hold up in the long term.

    If there are additional questions, you may contact me or I can redirect to others.

    #4 3 years ago

    Is the Stern bashing justified? Yes. Is the Stern praise justified? Yes.

    #5 3 years ago

    Yes: lack of features on pro models and premium/LE (e.g., no shaker), cabinet and playfield issues, stupid service pegs, spike system, high prices for less.

    No: fun games, good tech service, ability to crank out games.

    #6 3 years ago

    Tough Issue, Stern kept pinball alive in the dark times.

    That said, since the resurgence and the rise in MSRP. I feel Stern has been taking things out rather than offering more for your money.

    All LE's should come STANDARD with PDI/Invisiglass... better decals... real backglasses not translites. JJP offers more value and has FAR LESS buying power that Stern has.

    JJP build quality surpasses Stern.

    However, JJP is on track to build at most one title a year. Stern knows what it is doing, I just hate the constant cost cutting when they charge premium prices.

    Compare a game like LOTR for 4k to Star Wars for 8k... quite a bit more value in LOTR

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    Is the Stern bashing justified? Yes. Is the Stern praise justified? Yes.

    This

    #8 3 years ago

    Is the game fun or isn't it - that really should be the #1 question before buying a pin in my opinion.
    You have remakes coming out now that all use custom boards and the question on longevity is not against Stern alone.
    Technology is changing in these machines, and older era machines had issues as tech moved on as well.

    I love JJP, and while they are built like a brick shithouse, I still have more fun with GB than I do with WOZ, but let's not pretend there isn't a whole boatload of custom components under the hood of a JJP game to go wrong as well.

    Yes it is possible to have some issues with a Stern machine, there are people on this very forum with evidence of this but I don't believe that it's as bad or widespread as people want it to be. Stern also has very good customer service which is also evidenced here as well.

    In the end, if the way the game feels built is going to ruin your experience, then you really need to try it out yourself. The fun of a game should be what dominates the experience.

    #9 3 years ago

    I don't think guys are picky when games arrive unplayabe, cabinets start splitting, boards go bad after a few weeks, and playfields have obvious cosmetic issues that immediately diminish value. Picky is complaining about code not where they want it to be or cost cutting measures like lock down bars. Prices have risen dramatically and game features are going down.

    29
    #10 3 years ago

    I'm new to pins and the scene. I became interested in Star Wars at CAX this year - the lines were too long and I never got a chance to play it, but I took a gamble and ordered one.

    In between ordering and receipt, I found Pinside and began to worry if I'd made a huge mistake. Tons of threads about how terrible Star Wars is, how terrible Stern's QC is, etc.

    If I had seen all this before ordering it might have stopped me.

    When I got my machine I was greatly relieved. The machine was well packed, everything was intact and perfect, and it plays with no issues at all. And most importantly, I find the game to be extremely fun to play.

    I haven't been in the hobby long enough to say if I just got lucky or if the negative voices are just louder.
    For one data point though, I'm highly gruntled and would buy from Stern again.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    Is the Stern bashing justified? Yes. Is the Stern praise justified? Yes.

    Well said. Stern deserves a lot of what they get but they also deserve a lot of praise for creating fun games.

    35
    #13 3 years ago

    Absolutely. Prices up, quality down. Simple. "Bashing" justified. We're the customer who they want to spend $5000-$15,000 on a large mechanical game....so if they're not providing value for that money, F yeah we're gonna "bash". Stern has many problems, but these are the most fundamental:

    -Testing. This is a large piece of equipment, and they'd rather keep the title secret for marketing purposes than put it location to test. They used to test, and the games were better built when shipped because of it. They stopped around Avengers....and almost every game has had problems since & gotten worse.

    -Code. These are games, and the code IS the game. They're selling expensive games in which the GAME isn't figured out yet, and they have no structure internally or within marketing that guarantees the game will ever be complete. This is massively unacceptable. $60 or less video games don't have this problem, and if a game ships with missing features or with bugs, the company always communicates and gives updates on updates. If a video game shipped buggy or incomplete and the company didn't communicate - that company goes out of business. Gamers would never buy their product again. And that's $60 or less.

    #14 3 years ago

    at the end of the day stern is there to make money at any cost, a money grabbing machine, SW, batman is a perfect example.
    more profit years after years and cutting everywhere they can to please the new investors.

    we've been bitching for years about these issues, nothing have change and won't as long as people keep buying they will squeeze every pennies out of it.

    but in the long run it will bite them in the a$$.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I'm new to pins and the scene. I became interested in Star Wars at CAX this year - the lines were too long and I never got a chance to play it, but I took a gamble and ordered one.

    Congrats on your new game, but dude, if you couldn't play Star Wars at CAX this year you weren't trying very hard.

    #16 3 years ago

    Eh, I'll be the positive Stern guy for a change haha.

    They just sent me a box to replace my ghosted SW pro PF, despite the new legal disclaimer... which is fun as hell and I'm enjoying immensely.

    And they are also presently building me a brand new AC/DC premium for a substantial savings compared to what they were/are going for used, with free shipping to boot. It's priced WAY cheaper than a new Premium w/ LCD, and the BOM feels much higher as well.

    They continue to crank out new games and have always taken care of me when I have had problems (it does require a bit of persistence at times haha). There's no gun to anybody's head to buy the vastly overpriced recent LE cash grabs... and the majority of the pros play fantastically.

    Your best bet though? Buy a used one. Let the previous owner sort out all the kinks

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Instead of using the term, "bash", I would recommend changing the title to "manufacturing education" (or similar term), unless there is a preference to bait PinSide trolls for useless responses.

    A decision can then be better determined by an individual, the consumer, of what constitutes a proper "value for cost" and how the games will actually hold up in the long term.
    If there are additional questions, you may contact me or I can redirect to others.
    ยป YouTube video

    Great video....

    16
    #18 3 years ago

    just the fact that they have now broken tradition and started making games with unserviceable boards, without schematics. Makes them worthy of bashing. Because of this, they have lost all future business with me.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    In between ordering and receipt, I found Pinside and began to worry if I'd made a huge mistake. Tons of threads about how terrible Star Wars is, how terrible Stern's QC is, etc.

    Yep, the sky is falling and Stern is out to just screw everyone, while laughing all the way to the bank.
    If Pinside had it's way, Stern would have went down the crapper a long time ago, or would be operating at huge losses so they could keep all their (Pinside) customers "satisfied".
    Meanwhile, Take a Stern Pro, go operate it commercially. You will soon see that nothing has changed for what these games are, and have been, designed for....Making Money.
    They make money for Stern, they make money for Operators, they give the public a great product to enjoy for cheap. (.50~$1)
    They keep pinball alive and relevant. I have great respect for Stern, and hope to buy as many machines in the future as I can.
    Don't let the Pinside naysayers get stuck in your head.

    18
    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    Yep, the sky is falling and Stern is out to just screw everyone, while laughing all the way to the bank.
    If Pinside had it's way, Stern would have went down the crapper a long time ago, or would be operating at huge losses so they could keep all their (Pinside) customers "satisfied".
    Meanwhile, Take a Stern Pro, go operate it commercially. You will soon see that nothing has changed for what these games are, and have been, designed for....Making Money.
    They make money for Stern, they make money for Operators, they give the public a great product to enjoy for cheap. (.50~$1)
    They keep pinball alive and relevant. I have great respect for Stern, and hope to buy as many machines in the future as I can.
    Don't let the Pinside naysayers get stuck in your head.

    Yup you're right. Nothing has changed in terms of quality at all. Everything is the same as when LOTR and TSPP were made.

    Absolutely nothing to see here. Move along

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Yup you're right. Nothing has changed in terms of quality at all. Everything is the same as when LOTR and TSPP were made.
    Absolutely nothing to see here. Move along

    You forgot to post the Obi-Won Kenobi meme.

    #22 3 years ago

    I have 8 Nib Stern machines including Star Wars Le and the only issue I have had is with batman66. A node board died and I had an issue with the rotating device.

    I must say though that the new AFMRLE from Chicago gaming is build better than any Stern machine I have!!!

    #23 3 years ago

    Yes and no.

    They have reduced QC by cutting costs but they have produced some epic games.

    I do think though that going forward they are going to have to up their game and listen to their customers as competitors are biting at their heels now.

    And they REALLY need to communicate regarding code updates if they want to take a large share of the home market. These games/toys are getting really expensive so code becomes ultra important.

    I am not buying another Stern until this happens and/or KISS and AS are finished.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Yup you're right. Nothing has changed in terms of quality at all. Everything is the same as when LOTR and TSPP were made.
    Absolutely nothing to see here. Move along

    And if you REALLY want to see quality, check out some Gottlieb EM's!!!
    Back in my day... lol
    Guess what? EVERYTHING is made nowadays to be a bit more disposable. your house, your tools, your lawnmower, your printer, computer, Etc...
    I never said the quality of build was the same, just that the machines are still the same for the main purpose. Making Money.
    Put LOTR and TSPP next to a Star Wars pro on location, see what earns more.
    And they are the same price (now), except the SW you get is NIB.
    And with the recovering popularity on location (Thanks, Stern?), you will probly make your money back quicker on the SW than you would have back in the day trying to recoup the original $3500-4K that those games cost new.
    Also, resale value on Spike games, and most Stern titles that are good license, seems to be fine.
    But yeah, they suck and are just out to gouge their customers, making junk games.

    13
    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    And if you REALLY want to see quality, check out some Gottlieb EM's!!!
    Back in my day... lol
    Guess what? EVERYTHING is made nowadays to be a bit more disposable. your house, your tools, your lawnmower, your printer, computer, Etc...
    I never said the quality of build was the same, just that the machines are still the same for the main purpose. Making Money.
    Put LOTR and TSPP next to a Star Wars pro on location, see what earns more.
    And they are the same price (now), except the SW you get is NIB.
    And with the recovering popularity on location (Thanks, Stern?), you will probly make your money back quicker on the SW than you would have back in the day trying to recoup the original $3500-4K that those games cost new.
    Also, resale value on Spike games, and most Stern titles that are good license, seems to be fine.
    But yeah, they suck and are just out to gouge their customers, making junk games.

    Put a BMSLE on location and let me know how much you recoup on it. You are absolutely right the games are made to make money. It's just changed from the operator making money to Stern making money. Stern shifted from the commercial/vending/operating market to a home consumer driven market years ago. You should take notice. That was their decision. They should have realized the home consumer was going to be more demanding. They didn't. They cut quality and expect the home consumer to just deal with it. Ghosting is normal. Hahahaha.

    How observant of you to note that Star Wars is more popular than LOTR or The Simpsons <Yawn> The problem with your disposable theory is...Pinball's aren't supposed to be disposable. If I had to trade in my pinball every 3-5 years like my computer I wouldn't buy them.

    How anyone expects people to just deal with cracked clear, ghosted inserts, splitting cabinets et al, is beyond me.

    #26 3 years ago

    The problem for Stern is the lack of communication and interaction with their customer base making it appear that they really don't give a F.

    Which is not good because you know they do

    BM66 is a great example. Big fanfare for 25th anniversary game, code updates every two weeks, etc etc.

    Now it's crickets on code. Why let the anger and frustration fester.

    I don't care what anybody says, they make great fun pinball machines. Do they have issues? Sure, because they manufacture a shit load of pinball machines

    Tell me where else are you going to buy a Nib pin for $5200? That's right no F ing where

    #27 3 years ago

    As for the PFs chipping

    Hop on over to the JJP DI threads and see what's going on

    Pay $8-$9k for the overblown "tank" and see what happens when you go to sell it

    Just like TH, DI's will be selling in the mid $6k range when enough of them get out there

    So does it really matter? Nope, not in a HUO environment

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Stern shifted from the commercial/vending/operating market to a home consumer driven market years ago. You should take notice. That was their decision.

    I don't think the really "made" that choice, it just happened when Ops started dropping Pins and the home customer started buying new instead of used. They denied it for a long time, then just finally acknowledged it. Then began to exploit it to make extra dough off home buyers, that willingly went along, but now love to complain about being taken.
    In years before that, home buyers were always charged WAY more than Ops for the same game at a distributor, now they just get upcharged for a "LE". Just a different way to still extract the Collector cash on a commercial product, since the internet made the Buyer more aware of prices.
    Sorry for your BMSLE purchase if you bought it to operate and make money, you won't.

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Tell me where else are you going to buy a Nib pin for $5200? That's right no F ing where

    You could if other manufacturers dropped their quality and features.

    Problem is stern has followed others who use the charge more/get more formula when stern quality has went down/cut instead of improved.

    15
    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    I don't think the really "made" that choice, it just happened when Ops started dropping Pins and the home customer started buying new instead of used. They denied it for a long time, then just finally acknowledged it. Then began to exploit it to make extra dough off home buyers, that willingly went along, but now love to complain about being taken.
    In years before that, home buyers were always charged WAY more than Ops for the same game at a distributor, now they just get upcharged for a "LE". Just a different way to still extract the Collector cash on a commercial product, since the internet made the Buyer more aware of prices.
    Sorry for your BMSLE purchase if you bought it to operate and make money, you won't.

    I would never buy a BMSLE. Anyone who didn't see that cash grab has worse eyesight than Mr. Magoo. That's the prime example of Sterns new philosophy. Clip art, LCD screen, reused toys, incomplete code, $15k price tag.

    -1
    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    You could if other manufacturers dropped their quality and features.
    Problem is stern has followed others who use the charge more/get more formula when stern quality has went down/cut instead of improved.

    Why doesn't JJP? Not because they don't want to it's because they can't compete at that level and volume. Maybe one day

    Once again, the perceived quality you think you are getting from others ain't going to translate when you go to sell it. So I see no extra value there

    People don't put the extra value that some do on "extra quality" and "features"

    They put it on fun factor value. That's why Stern still makes 50 pins a day.

    Yes they have issues and problems. To bash them and ignore the PF chipping JJP has is a bit hypocritical to me

    #32 3 years ago

    How much value do people give to "mods" when you go to sell a game? Exactly....Nobody gives a shit except the seller

    I'm buying an AFMLE that should arrive by end of the month

    They say it's a tank. That's not why I'm purchasing it. The game kicks ass!

    And yes I expect to lose $$$ on it when I go to sell it. Just like every other pin out there for the most part

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    How much value do people give to "mods" when you go to sell a game? Exactly....Nobody gives a shit except the seller
    I'm buying an AFMLE that should arrive by end of the month
    They say it's a tank. That's not why I'm purchasing it. The game kicks ass!
    And yes I expect to lose $$$ on it when I go to sell it. Just like every other pin out there for the most part

    What happened to " Im not buying anymore pins unless something sells first".

    11
    #34 3 years ago

    The same thing is true and never changes, regardless of how many identical threads hash out the same overstuffed word salads from the same usual sous chefs...

    Stern is the only company putting out reliable, fun, full-featured commercial pinball machines on a regular, timely basis at a price point near $5,000. If you aren't happy with their product and still feel the need to buy a brand new game, feel free to spend thousands of dollars more and try your luck with the other companies.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The same thing is true and never changes, regardless of how many identical threads hash out the same overstuffed word salads from the same usual sous chefs...
    Stern is the only company putting out reliable, fun, full-featured commercial pinball machines on a regular, timely basis at well under $5500. If you aren't happy with their product and still feel the need to buy a brand new game, feel free to spend thousands of dollars more and try your luck with the other companies.

    These threads never get old and you know they piss off Stern to no end.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Stern shifted from the commercial/vending/operating market to a home consumer driven market years ago.

    I'm not sure I agree with that. If they were really going to consumer, they would sell the games directly on their website and not go through third parties.

    I found this middleman confusing and irritating as a new pin buyer. Instead of just buying the machine I wanted, I had to research to find a distributor that had what I wanted, when I wanted it, and at a reasonable price.

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The same thing is true and never changes, regardless of how many identical threads hash out the same overstuffed word salads from the same usual sous chefs...
    Stern is the only company putting out reliable, fun, full-featured commercial pinball machines on a regular, timely basis at a price point near $5,000. If you aren't happy with their product and still feel the need to buy a brand new game, feel free to spend thousands of dollars more and try your luck with the other companies.

    Have you become a Stern distributer?

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Have you become a Stern distributer?

    No. I'm just sane.

    11
    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Why doesn't JJP? Not because they don't want to it's because they can't compete at that level and volume. Maybe one day
    Once again, the perceived quality you think you are getting from others ain't going to translate when you go to sell it. So I see no extra value there
    People don't put the extra value that some do on "extra quality" and "features"
    They put it on fun factor value. That's why Stern still makes 50 pins a day.
    Yes they have issues and problems. To bash them and ignore the PF chipping JJP has is a bit hypocritical to me

    Give me a break here...your JJP bashing is just getting ridiculous. Look, I understand your team just got embarrassed at home and you are pissed, but that doesn't mean you should get on Pinside and troll.

    23
    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Stern is the only company putting out reliable,

    Debatable.

    Debatable

    LOL

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    What happened to " Im not buying anymore pins unless something sells first".

    Well SW never came so AFM replaced it!

    Another pin I never thought I'd buy. Light show , call outs and topper pulled me in on top of great game and wait for it............it's built like a tank and the quality is off the charts good

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from TxJay:

    Give me a break here...your JJP bashing is just getting ridiculous. Look, I understand your team just got embarrassed at home and you are pissed, but that doesn't mean you should get on Pinside and troll.

    Yeah, that was pitiful. Truth is they suck

    Truth is JJP pf chipping sucks too.

    No need to be a hypocrite here

    I could bash JJP for the next 1000 posts and it wouldn't even come close to the positive ones I've made in the past

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Well SW never came so AFM replaced it!
    Another pin I never thought I'd buy. Light show , call outs and topper pulled me in on top of great game and wait for it............it's built like a tank and the quality is off the charts good

    Afm is a great pin I bought one for $1800 about 5 years ago. I sold it for $10000 and bought a CC.

    21
    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    But yeah, they suck and are just out to gouge their customers, making junk games.

    Well, at least you got that part right.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    Tell me where else are you going to buy a Nib pin for $5200? That's right no F ing where

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Stern is the only company putting out reliable, fun, full-featured commercial pinball machines on a regular, timely basis at a price point near $5,000.

    I swear, this is classic "turn the heat up slowly and watch the frog boil and pop" psychology. 4 years ago, MetPro was a $4400 NIB game. In 4 years, we've inched up to $5200 for the "good distributors who take care of their customers" price, and this community just keeps taking it. 4 years ago, we would cry "MURDER" if a game was regularly $8000 and now look at everyone popping that for SWLE, DI standard edition (let that soak in for a second...the cheapest version is $8000), and AFMLE.

    I'll never understand why this community just grabs its ankles and takes it from the pinball companies here. We are the reason these companies exist, and yet, what is the reward, a higher and higher price tag with lower and lower quality. And we keep.........taking..........it. I'll never understand it.

    Peep my collection. I stopped with TWDPrem. I realized what Stern is doing, and I will not be taken for a ride. Quality goes down and prices go up - hell with that.

    I don't need the newest, most shiney toy on my block. Hell with that. I'm not keeping up with the Jones'. That's nothing but trouble.

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Afm is a great pin I bought one for $1800 about 5 years ago. I sold it for $10000 and bought a CC.

    Say what! When r u selling that CC James?

    Did you report that capital gain on your taxes?

    15
    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from HarryReimer:

    Compare a game like LOTR for 4k to Star Wars for 8k... quite a bit more value in LOTR

    To me, this is the biggest issue. Take away the cracked cabinets, the ghosted inserts and whatever else you want to pile on with! The biggest issue is value and I highly doubt anyone can argue that the value you get with a LoTR or PoTC is less than a new Star Wars that is close to double the price.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from TxJay:

    Give me a break here...your JJP bashing is just getting ridiculous. Look, I understand your team just got embarrassed at home and you are pissed, but that doesn't mean you should get on Pinside and troll.

    LOL, well played! At least I made some cash on the second half!

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    No. I'm just sane.

    Somehow sanelevi just doesn't sound right.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    I'm not sure I agree with that. If they were really going to consumer, they would sell the games directly on their website and not go through third parties.
    I found this middleman confusing and irritating as a new pin buyer. Instead of just buying the machine I wanted, I had to research to find a distributor that had what I wanted, when I wanted it, and at a reasonable price.

    That's because that's their model. That's how they have operated for decades. It "works" for them. They are not a forward thinking company. At one time, yes. Now, no.

    They don't want to deal with the BS that comes with selling an inferior product. That's why they won't go direct. Let the distros hammer it out. And it's not like they even treat their distros well anymore. Stern Army, ha! More like hang your distros out to dry while Stern collects the money.

    I do enjoy some of their products but I don't have to like them as a company and the direction they've chose.

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    That's because that's their model. That's how they have operated for decades. It "works" for them. They are not a forward thinking company. At one time, yes. Now, no.
    They don't want to deal with the BS that comes with selling an inferior product. That's why they won't go direct. Let the distros hammer it out. And it's not like they even treat their distros well anymore. Stern Army, ha! More like hang your distros out to dry while Stern collects the money.
    I do enjoy some of their products but I don't have to like them as a company and the direction they've chose.

    I'm gonna point out the other side of the coin too.

    Why don't more distros sell JJP pins?

    Because anytime JJP wants to raise cash all they have to do is undercut their own on a direct sale.

    They have done it before. At the same time requiring big purchase commitments

    If you think there isn't a raft of BS that JJP deals with too on a per capita basis then you ain't paying attention

    Point is you can bash Stern all day long. The rest of em deal with the same shit

    Stern just sells THOUSANDS of more pins than everybody else

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 24.50
    $ 10.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Mods for your pinballs
    $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 54.99
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 12.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Siegecraft Electronics
    $ 60.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Docquest Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 25.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Filament Printing
    $ 209.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    $ 65.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    G-Money Mods
    $ 3.50
    Various Other Swag
    UpKick Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 7,395.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    From: $ 15.00
    Lighting - Led
    Professor Pinball
    $ 20.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    COINTAKER.COM
    $ 65.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 15.00
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    $ 125.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 42.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 1.00
    Various Other Swag
    Pinside Shop
    $ 48.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 17.50
    Cabinet - Other
    Pin Monk
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 137.00
    $ 30.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    3D MODS
    There are 806 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 17.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside