(Topic ID: 44705)

stern ball trough launching multiple balls...


By BloodyCactus

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by wtuttle
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

My new tron, quite often will put up two balls into the shooterlane, either on a new ball or when doing multie ball, there is a high chance it will kick out two balls...

What sort of tweaks can I do to remedy this. My old Sega SST does not do this, and the ball trough design seems pretty similar..

One thing I did notice, when my old Sega very rarely did this, when the first ball drained the game would not count the second ball and go into end of ball mode and wait for the extra ball to drain while showing bonuses etc... Tron just keeps on playing like nothing is wrong...

#2 6 years ago

For a start I would pull the ball trough opto boards and remove the old solder and flow on new solder on the optos and the pins the connector plugs onto.

That cures 99.99% of these problems.

LTG : )

#3 6 years ago

What Lloyd said. If you don't have the skills to do that I believe the boards are $9 each.

#4 6 years ago

hmm.. old solder? this tron was mfg'd in feb 2013.. I would not expect old/cold solder/cracked joints at this point. I'll see if I can pull the boards and reflow them.

I think the problem is more that I'm getting double stack in the ball trough, so when it fires I get two at once, not that its firing twice and giving me two balls a few seconds apart.

#5 6 years ago

Check the shooter lane switch also.

#6 6 years ago

I have a RCT that would shoot balls in the shooter lane when no one was playing it, it was the solder on the opto boards, I reflowed them and all is well now. That was years ago and is still working fine. The game was only about six months old when it started to happen.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from BloodyCactus:

My new tron, quite often will put up two balls into the shooterlane, either on a new ball or when doing multie ball, there is a high chance it will kick out two balls...
What sort of tweaks can I do to remedy this. My old Sega SST does not do this, and the ball trough design seems pretty similar..
One thing I did notice, when my old Sega very rarely did this, when the first ball drained the game would not count the second ball and go into end of ball mode and wait for the extra ball to drain while showing bonuses etc... Tron just keeps on playing like nothing is wrong...

I was having the same problem with my Avengers Pro. It did not happen often, maybe once every 15 to 20 games. I followed the information given by another guy on pinside and I must say it has not happened since. On the Service Menu Go to Game Adjustment - we adjusted the Coil Pulse Power from Normal to Soft. After playing probably 60 games it has not happened once.

#8 6 years ago

I had this same problem the first day my friends and I played Tron after unboxing. On the second day I checked the angle of the playfield and it was at 4.2 degrees! I bought a good level and set it at 6.5. Haven't had a single problem since.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from BloodyCactus:

hmm.. old solder? this tron was mfg'd in feb 2013.

I didn't say old solder.

The crap the manufacturer washes ( solders everything ) turns grey looking, more like clay. Doesn't do a good job.

Not to mention those opto boards weren't made the same day as your game. They have been laying around for awhile.

LTG : )

1 year later
#10 5 years ago

I have the same Problem with my STERN MetLE. After a few games it starts to kick out 2 balls in the shooter lane. I resoldered the optos and later I changed the Opto boards, the shooter lane switch and the switches where the balls are with new ones. With each of these steps I had the feeling the problem was solved but after 2-3 days it came back.
I can't find any problems in the switch testmenu.

#11 5 years ago

sry double post

#12 5 years ago

On my AVLE, it had nothing to do with the solder joints, it was all about the connectors that the wiring harness connects to the trough opto boards. Just unplugging them and plugging them back in would make the problem go away for a couple hundred games.

Some people replace the connectors with new Molex connectors with Trifurcon contacts.

I used a very thin layer dielectric grease on the pins applied with a q-tip and the problem has never returned. Some people are against using dielectric grease on pin connectors but I have not had any problems with it yet.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

On my AVLE, it had nothing to do with the solder joints, it was all about the connectors that the wiring harness connects to the trough opto boards. Just unplugging them and plugging them back in would make the problem go away for a couple hundred games.
Some people replace the connectors with new Molex connectors with Trifurcon contacts.
I used a very thin layer dielectric grease on the pins applied with a q-tip and the problem has never returned. Some people are against using dielectric grease on pin connectors but I have not had any problems with it yet.

From what I have read on these forums this is the fix, unplugging and plugging back in seems to fix it.
I haven't had this happen yet, but have read a lot of the new sterns are doing this.

#14 5 years ago

as an owner of many sterns and work on many sterns almost daily (old and new):
1) replace the connectors that go to both trough boards (thanks parker).
2) solder everything, not just the pins on the trough boards. doesnt matter if game is new out of box, the trough boards are NOT new. I bought a NIB SEGA harley davison and the optos' solder joints to the motorcycle already were cracked and didnt work properly on game number 1 played.
3) check your weldement at top of trough kick out. if its cracked, broke/raised up, a ball can shootout and fall back in from the shooter lane, then it kicks out 2 balls because 2 balls are now in the up kicker part of trough.

*if you do all of the above and the problem Does not go go away, one or both of your trough pcb has a real problem. replace those and you are done.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from silver_spinner:

as an owner of many sterns and work on many sterns almost daily (old and new):
1) replace the connectors that go to both trough boards (thanks parker).
2) solder everything, not just the pins on the trough boards. doesnt matter if game is new out of box, the trough boards are NOT new. I bought a NIB SEGA harley davison and the optos' solder joints to the motorcycle already were cracked and didnt work properly on game number 1 played.
3) check your weldement at top of trough kick out. if its cracked, broke/raised up, a ball can shootout and fall back in from the shooter lane, then it kicks out 2 balls because 2 balls are now in the up kicker part of trough.
*if you do all of the above and the problem Does not go go away, one or both of your trough pcb has a real problem. replace those and you are done.

In addition to #3, it also could be that the ball is trying to kickout but the angled part at the trough exit is knocking the ball back down causing two balls to be in the jam opto area and thus both balls would be ejected to the shooter lane. This is a common problem and the solution is to bend the angled part slightly either toward the plunger or away from the plunger. It takes some trial and error to get it right.

3 months later
#16 4 years ago
Quoted from jamesdeloris:

On the Service Menu Go to Game Adjustment - we adjusted the Coil Pulse Power from Normal to Soft. After playing probably 60 games it has not happened once.

can you do this for just the trough upkicker coil?

#17 4 years ago

So I keep having two balls randomly eject or get stuck in the up trough.

I re soldered the opto boards, cleaned the optos, and then I found this.....I went to bend some of the flaps...

I did the trough test over and over and found that a ball would eject then bounce right back in
I assume that is supposed to be welded?

image.jpg image-688.jpg
#18 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

can you do this for just the trough upkicker coil?

Not separate I don't think, but i set all coils to soft and it helped....some

#19 4 years ago

Yep, your welds are busted.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Yep, your welds are busted.

Excuse to buy a welder......?

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Excuse to buy a welder......?

Or wrap a cable tie around the end.

LTG : )™

#22 4 years ago

Thanks Lloyd. I put a zip tie on it for now. Seems to work I appreciate all the help, I'll get it welded

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Not separate I don't think, but i set all coils to soft and it helped....some

ok thanks. I might try that out.

#24 4 years ago

Soft works great now with the curve part zip tied

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Soft works great now with the curve part zip tied

if you have to set all coils to soft...are there any that you would not want to be soft? like maybe the arcade kickout. i like it the way it is. difficult to manage as it sometimes clips the sling. soft would make it easier.

#26 4 years ago

I would love to be able to pick and choose, but it is just all coils. The kick out is just a tad slower now. You can try it, it isn't a giant game changer, but you can tell. I swear some games had per coil power change.....

#27 4 years ago

Ok. I might try. My machine is 98% good now so might not resort to coil power just yet. May bend trough flap back a tad more instead.

#28 4 years ago

It's pretty funny. This issue will eventually occur on every modern stern due to crappy welds. I have to reweld every trough on new sterns I put out on location. You would think they would tak them more....but I guess that's too much to ask...

2 years later
#29 2 years ago

Seems nobody has had this issue in some time, but I am stumped. I have a TWD Premium. It is a four-ball game with micro-switches in the ball trough. My last switch, where the fourth ball would rest if there were none in play (#18) stays lit unless the playfield is tilted in the opposite direction it's supposed to go. I've tried re-seating the connectors. I lack the ability (and tools) to re-solder.

Any ideas? It would be much appreciated. I'll donate $20 to Pinside if someone can save me from calling a tech over!

Cheers from Canada,

Winston.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

Seems nobody has had this issue in some time, but I am stumped. I have a TWD Premium. It is a four-ball game with micro-switches in the ball trough. My last switch, where the fourth ball would rest if there were none in play (#18) stays lit unless the playfield is tilted in the opposite direction it's supposed to go. I've tried re-seating the connectors. I lack the ability (and tools) to re-solder.
Any ideas? It would be much appreciated. I'll donate $20 to Pinside if someone can save me from calling a tech over!
Cheers from Canada,
Winston.

Sounds like it's just staying closed aka always engaged? So if you pull all balls out and run a switch test. Ball 4 switch #18 stays active?

If so it just needs to be adjusted probably. Pinball life has a switch adjust tool with a cut in the blade to make it easier to adjust switches without bending the crap out of the metal

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Sounds like it's just staying closed aka always engaged? So if you pull all balls out and run a switch test. Ball 4 switch #18 stays active?
If so it just needs to be adjusted probably. Pinball life has a switch adjust tool with a cut in the blade to make it easier to adjust switches without bending the crap out of the metal

Hi Northvibe,

You are correct--it stays closed, but when I raised it with a knife (not recommended!), the switch stayed closed, even though I had the arm all the way off the orange sensor bit. I'm at a loss.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

the switch stayed closed, even though I had the arm all the way off the orange sensor bit. I'm at a loss.

Something shorting across the fiberboard spacers separating the leaf blades ? A short to wiring for that switch there, or elsewhere ?

LTG : )

#33 2 years ago

Could just be the switch is bad internally (or diode assuming it has one).

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Could just be the switch is bad internally

Leaf blade, not micro mini switch.

LTG : )

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Something shorting across the fiberboard spacers separating the leaf blades ? A short to wiring for that switch there, or elsewhere ?
LTG : )

Hmm, thanks for the idea. I'm going to investigate this in the morning. I just played a game with three balls (instead of the four) and now my Well Walker isn't registering hits! I feel like some gremlins got in my machine! It was maintenance-free for 10 months, but is now wonky.

Thank you all for reading. At least I don't feel alone in the battle!

-Winston.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

Hi Northvibe,
You are correct--it stays closed, but when I raised it with a knife (not recommended!), the switch stayed closed, even though I had the arm all the way off the orange sensor bit. I'm at a loss.

Ah, but if the pf is up. It goes off. I figured the leaf part lifted as gravity but sounds like Lloyd is right, you may have a issue with wiring or a short. Follow the wire and harness and see what it may pull/or a break

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Leaf blade, not micro mini switch.
LTG : )

I thought he said micro switches in the ball trough?

wtuttle can we get a picture?

Quoted from wtuttle:

Seems nobody has had this issue in some time, but I am stumped. I have a TWD Premium. It is a four-ball game with micro-switches in the ball trough. My last switch, where the fourth ball would rest if there were none in play (#18) stays lit unless the playfield is tilted in the opposite direction it's supposed to go. I've tried re-seating the connectors. I lack the ability (and tools) to re-solder.
Any ideas? It would be much appreciated. I'll donate $20 to Pinside if someone can save me from calling a tech over!
Cheers from Canada,
Winston.

trough2 (resized).JPG

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

Hmm, thanks for the idea. I'm going to investigate this in the morning. I just played a game with three balls (instead of the four) and now my Well Walker isn't registering hits! I feel like some gremlins got in my machine! It was maintenance-free for 10 months, but is now wonky.
Thank you all for reading. At least I don't feel alone in the battle!
-Winston.

The Well Walker #2 and #18 switch in the ball trough are both on the same column in the switch matrix.

WD matrix (resized).JPG

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I thought he said micro switches in the ball trough?

You are correct. northvibe confused things with the leaf adjuster. Sorry.

LTG : )

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Or wrap a cable tie around the end.
LTG : )™

THis zip tie stuff held my scoop for years. Finally pulled a couple with weld breaks and found a local weld shop to fix them

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

You are correct. northvibe confused things with the leaf adjuster. Sorry.
LTG : )

Sorry guys! I don't know all those super terms that actually describe things I was thinking it was a microswitch adjustment, but sounds like it is something else along the wire harness

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

Seems nobody has had this issue in some time, but I am stumped. I have a TWD Premium. It is a four-ball game with micro-switches in the ball trough. My last switch, where the fourth ball would rest if there were none in play (#18) stays lit unless the playfield is tilted in the opposite direction it's supposed to go. I've tried re-seating the connectors. I lack the ability (and tools) to re-solder.
Any ideas? It would be much appreciated. I'll donate $20 to Pinside if someone can save me from calling a tech over!
Cheers from Canada,
Winston.

Quoted from wtuttle:

Hmm, thanks for the idea. I'm going to investigate this in the morning. I just played a game with three balls (instead of the four) and now my Well Walker isn't registering hits! I feel like some gremlins got in my machine! It was maintenance-free for 10 months, but is now wonky.
Thank you all for reading. At least I don't feel alone in the battle!
-Winston.

wtuttle, the first thing I would check is to see if you have a diode on either the trough switch 18 or the well walker that is bent/smooshed causing a short. Get the simple checks out of the way before hiring someone to replace a switch or more.

#43 2 years ago

Hi wtuttle,
Just to be sure it is not on the BG Mod. Have you pinched the clamps of the BG Hit target and test it again?

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from Gnassel:

Hi wtuttle,
Just to be sure it is not on the BG Mod. Have you pinched the clamps of the BG Hit target and test it again?

Thanks Frank, I will do that.

Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll post pics tonight.

Cheers from Canada,

Winston.

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from wtuttle:

Thanks Frank, I will do that.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll post pics tonight.
Cheers from Canada,
Winston.

Did you see my post in TWD thread about checking if your upper pop bumper is working correctly? I followed the wires and im pretty sure after the wire harness by trough the next place the wire goes is upper pop bumper. If its working correctly or not will help to tell if theres a wire off somewhere or if its in the switch itself i think

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

Did you see my post in TWD thread about checking if your upper pop bumper is working correctly? I followed the wires and im pretty sure after the wire harness by trough the next place the wire goes is upper pop bumper. If its working correctly or not will help to tell if theres a wire off somewhere or if its in the switch itself i think

Hi Phbooms,

Thanks for the reminder. I've just checked; top pop bumper works great.
Now, if only I knew what that meant! I guess it might mean the short is before that on the wiring harness?

-Winston.

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Gnassel:

Hi wtuttle,
Just to be sure it is not on the BG Mod. Have you pinched the clamps of the BG Hit target and test it again?

Hi Frank,

I unhooked the mod, and the game works perfectly again. I will enjoy for awhile, then try hooking up the mod correctly!

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Winston.

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