(Topic ID: 124033)

Stern asking what code does Avengers need? Post here!


By Butch2099

4 years ago



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  • 383 posts
  • 92 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Butch2099
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There are 383 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.
#251 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

George is a nice guy but I've spoken to him before where he says "who determines when a game is done? If we left it up to the hobbyists it would never be done".

Gary says the same thing. I would respond to them with:

You decide when it's done, but TELL US when you've decided this. And tell us which ones are still being worked on.

Simple as that.

#252 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

George is a nice guy but I've spoken to him before where he says "who determines when a game is done? If we left it up to the hobbyists it would never be done".

I'll tell it like it is.....what a load of shit! If I am spending more than $6,000 on a toy you better code every single feature that is listed on the playfield and fix the bugs. Short of that you failed your customer. Here is an idea. List the features and modes that will be available on the game. Announce such modes and then stick to the program. That way people know what they are buying and you guys know exactly what you have to code.

To put the faults of a game on the shoulders of the buyer is just pure non sense.

Like you said on facebook George... "It's your game"! We'll let me point something to you. Your game is unfinished. The code in your game as more holes than a chunk of Swiss cheese and if you truly believe that your game is done well you will do two things:

a) Piss off all the home market buyers that bought your "complete game"
b) Lose some sales on future titles

stern-pinball-swisscheese-avengers.jpg

#253 4 years ago

I cant write him anything, he blocked me.
Nur your Text is very good

#254 4 years ago

not a favorite but have it

#255 4 years ago

Spinner RULZ. nuff said. Actually, no it isn't. Wiz mode dots. hello? You've just made the wiz mode! Congrats! Here are some cool sounds to entertain you while you hit the same shots you've hit 1 trillion times already ANOTHER 4 times EACH. Yes! A 6 ball (6 balls!!) wizard mode with no dots. Sucks AZZ G-E-O-R-G-E.

Few people praised AVLE more than me....but Jesus H freaking Christ...polish the code and be done with it.

#256 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Info came straight from Stern employee, on the phone, no ambiguity. I won't name him because he asked me stop using his name on Pinside, but you can probably guess. I will neither confirm nor deny any guesses though.
Frankly even though I wasn't convinced GOT was a slam dunk theme it was the assurance of how much work was being done ahead of time on this title that had me looking forward to it.

In that case I heard, from a Stern employee on a telephone, that Iron Maiden will be a game they make

#257 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

In that case I heard, from a Stern employee on a telephone, that Iron Maiden will be a game they make

Sweet

#258 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Does anyone know if GEX, Trent, GAP or others ever champion completed code as a disti voice back to Stern? It would seem if they said games sales are struggling because "wait and see" approach by their customers due to bugs in past game code might make more of an impact on Stern.
George is a nice guy but I've spoken to him before where he says "who determines when a game is done? If we left it up to the hobbyists it would never be done". I get that perspective. But like others have said known bugs in code or inserts on play fields that code does not use - there should be no debate in completing. Scoring changes, I get it's a philosophical debate.

Leaving a few bugs and correcting them later is fine, granted they actually get corrected in a timely manner. Could you imagine if PC hardware manufacturers did this with software drivers? Nobody would buy their stuff. HP ignored releasing updated drivers for some of their older hardware in an obvious attempt to get people to buy new hardware, and that backfired (specifically their printers).

Stern knows that you can't just return a pin like you can a wireless mouse with buggy drivers to the store.

#259 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

The code in your game as more holes than a chunk of Swiss cheese and if you truly believe that your game is done

So I own avengers (and I see that you don't). The issues are few. The code is actually very solid and the game is mostly complete. There are not "more holes than Swiss cheese" and the game is not a disaster.

The main issues are:
- buggy Thor flasher
- H hulk drop target issues when target is not perfect software doesn't know how to compensate
- hulk is impossible when drops disabled in the menu
- wizard mode dots are incomplete - I haven't seen the wizard mode so I don't know what's not there.
- people complain about unfair bonus but it's not so easy to farm that problem and I love it when I get a big bonus so it's not a problem I think.

I find the shaker motor effects are just fine and don't feel there's a need for changes there. And it's true the spinner doesn't have game rules behind it, but it does have sound effects. Who is to say that wasn't all that was planned for the spinner. The rules are fine without it.

The rules are actually quite solid and pretty well done. The game does not need an entire overhaul or anything. The sounds are good also.

I agree there are a couple things but it's annoying to see the non owner coming in here exaggerating things to push his agenda.

#260 4 years ago

Come on Stern. Make the code open source already. Let the community deal with this shit. Your problem would go away in an instant.

#261 4 years ago

Is there anything really preventing Stern from allowing code to be modified? Would a licensed theme prevent it? I doubt it. Look at Grand Theft Auto 5 on the PC. The game features 100's of licensed audio tracks yet mods can be added.

#262 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The main issues are:
- buggy Thor flasher
- H hulk drop target issues when target is not perfect software doesn't know how to compensate
- hulk is impossible when drops disabled in the menu
- wizard mode dots are incomplete - I haven't seen the wizard mode so I don't know what's not there.
- And it's true the spinner doesn't have game rules behind it, but it does have sound effects.
I agree there are a couple things but it's annoying to see the non owner coming in here exaggerating things to push his agenda.

Shouldn't "his" agenda be your agenda as well.
Considering you just pointed out the games flaws that everyone knows about. Including Stern. And some of it has been worked on but not released. So....Stern has basically given customers a big F-U. We have your money deal with what we gave/give you.

Sorry, and sad to say, but that kind of service or attitude to paying customers is not acceptable anywhere else. But for some reason in the pinball hobby its accepted by some.

I'm all for getting the most out of my money. And expect to get what I paid for. So if someone has an "agenda" to try to get that for upset customers I for one am 100% in support of it.

#263 4 years ago
Quoted from RonaldRayGun:

Come on Stern. Make the code open source already. Let the community deal with this shit. Your problem would go away in an instant.

Man an open source code with this community of creative and innovative enthusiasts? So many possibilities!!

Makes me so frustrated that not only do they not open the code but they also won't bother to correct issues or add in missing features.

Stay tuned!!

#264 4 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Shouldn't "his" agenda be your agenda as well.

No. If his agenda is to exaggerate things to the point that it's all white noise to stern, then it works against the valid concerns that could be voiced and otherwise heard.

Quoted from Grinder901:

Man an open source code with this community of creative and innovative enthusiasts? So many possibilities!!
Makes me so frustrated that not only do they not open the code but they also won't bother to correct issues or add in missing features.
Stay tuned!!

They can't open source due to license constrains.

#265 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

No. If his agenda is to exaggerate things to the point that it's all white noise to stern, then it works against the valid concerns that could be voiced and otherwise heard.

They can't open source due to license constrains.

I agree that the Swiss cheese analogy is hyperbolic.

Those same license constrains don't prohibit them from addressing our issues/concerns do they?

#266 4 years ago

Opensource would be bad... I want the factory vision/release of a game, no overcooked community version that never ends.
In competition play you also would have to wonder what version we are on. It would be easy and would advance really fast but it would loose it's charm.

#267 4 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

Opensource would be bad... I want the factory vision/release of a game, no overcooked community version that never ends.
In competition play you also would have to wonder what version we are on. It would be easy and would advance really fast but it would loose it's charm.

I agree, it would be bad. Plus, if someone were to accidentely or maliciously alter certain things in the programming it could damage the game or even start a fire.

Rob

#268 4 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

I agree, it would be bad. Plus, if someone were to accidentely or maliciously alter certain things in the programming it could damage the game or even start a fire.
Rob

That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that AMH is a very dangerous machine that can go up in flames any second?

#269 4 years ago
Quoted from RonaldRayGun:

That doesn't make any sense.

Through software you could turn on a coil and leave it on to burn out.

#270 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Through software you could turn on a coil and leave it on to burn out.

The whole point with open source is that all code is transparent to everybody. All code updates are vetted by the entire community so the scenario you're describing would be spotted immediately before it's added to the main code. In fact, it is far more likely for bugs and glitches to slip by in a closed environment where only a couple of guys at Stern is looking at the code, compared to an open community of hundreds, if not thousands, of developers. This is why arguments about machines suddenly self combusting doesn't make any sense at all.

#271 4 years ago
Quoted from RonaldRayGun:

The whole point with open source is that all code is transparent to everybody. All code updates are vetted by the entire community so the scenario you're describing would be spotted immediately before it's added to the main code. In fact, it is far more likely for bugs and glitches to slip by in a closed environment where only a couple of guys at Stern is looking at the code, compared to an open community of hundreds, if not thousands, of developers. This is why arguments about machines suddenly self combusting doesn't make any sense at all.

Understood. But ultimately the main reason is Stern just isn't going to do it. So, we're spinning our wheels debating anything else.

#272 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

So I own Avengers (and I see that you don't). The issues are few. The code is actually very solid and the game is mostly complete. There are not "more holes than Swiss cheese" and the game is not a disaster.

I wouldn't call it a disaster either and even if I don't own the game I have played it enough to know that there are definitely holes in the code that prevent it from being great. The analogy is somewhat exaggerated but I don't see other people stepping up to the plate. If people would give me ideas I would take them.

Sure the "wheresthecode" facebook page only has 290 likes but it's been climbing steadily since it's started and it's not declining. Which means more and more people are getting fed up. They are not huge numbers but if everyone that is pissed off at Stern (a lot more than 290) would join together the message would be alot stronger. Even at 290 some posts get more than 2,000 in reach with just a few shares and a few likes. If all those 290 people would like and share just one post it could easily reach 10K.

The Problem is people bitch on here but it is self contained...no one outside the forum hears this stuff. So if you want to voice your opinion and make it known to the outside world other than pinside. I suggest people subscribe to the facebook feed and "like" and most importantly "share" the posts. If people have ideas on posts they can easily pm me or send me a note on the page. Ideas are welcomed. Help me get rid of the "white noise".

https://www.facebook.com/wheresthecode

#273 4 years ago

I don't think Stern is going to release an update for Avengers. It doesn't help their bottom line at all. They don't give a shit if an unpopular out of production machine has a few bugs. As long as people keep ponying up money for NIB games they'll just continue the same old cycle. There's nothing you can do about it except not buy a game until it is done. I think it's probably time to just move on, sell your avengers and buy a game that's almost complete like IM, MET, ST or AC/DC.

#274 4 years ago

Haha almost complete

-1
#275 4 years ago
Quoted from Grinder901:

Haha almost complete

There's the problem right there. Everyone's idea of complete is different. I think Met, ST and AC/DC are fine just the way they are and I would consider them "complete". However everyone and their dog has an opinion on what else they would add/tweak/whatever. At some point, Stern has to draw the line.

Known bugs and unfinished modes/wizard modes are definitely not acceptable though. Those are things that Stern put in or meant to put in that just aren't finished. That's where they lose credibility imo.

#276 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

If people would give me ideas I would take them.

Here's an idea I expect some thumbs down for. Team up with someone on pinside who makes shirts and/or wristbands and have the "where is the code?" products at Chicago Expo. Give the wrist bands away so people wear them all over Expo - bright red wristbands. You want to get Stern attention - they are all at Expo including the disti's.

#277 4 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

There's the problem right there. Everyone's idea of complete is different. I think Met, ST and AC/DC are fine just the way they are and I would consider them "complete". However everyone and their dog has an opinion on what else they would add/tweak/whatever. At some point, Stern has to draw the line.
Known bugs and unfinished modes/wizard modes are definitely not acceptable though. Those are things that Stern put in or meant to put in that just aren't finished. That's where they lose credibility imo.

Agreed. Bugs and unfinished modes/wizard modes are not acceptable. That should be the focus. Otherwise it's a big circle jerk on what complete means and to whom.

#278 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The main issues are:
- buggy Thor flasher
- H hulk drop target issues when target is not perfect software doesn't know how to compensate
- hulk is impossible when drops disabled in the menu
- wizard mode dots are incomplete - I haven't seen the wizard mode so I don't know what's not there.
- people complain about unfair bonus but it's not so easy to farm that problem and I love it when I get a big bonus so it's not a problem I think.

Please include the pop bumper lighting going off when you are collecting CA to your list, if not only for the small chance that Stern see's just one list and works off of it

One code adjustment that would be cool for people would be to give an option to allow BW to be collected by the spinner.

#279 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Here's an idea I expect some thumbs down for. Team up with someone on pinside who makes shirts and/or wristbands and have the "where is the code?" products at Chicago Expo. Give the wrist bands away so people wear them all over Expo - bright red wristbands. You want to get Stern attention - they are all at Expo including the disti's.

I had done some shirts before. With little fan fare maybe I can relaunch ?

#280 4 years ago

I wear mine all the time. The funniest interaction I've had since TPF was in the grocery store. Never thought someone would know what that was about there but I got stopped one day and asked about it. They thought it was funny. Not someone on pinside but they had a couple of Stern pins at home.

#281 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I had done some shirts before. With little fan fare maybe I can relaunch ?

Get a few girls to stand outside of Expo wearing your shirts to hand out fliers with specific Stern games that have bugs (or inserts not used) so it's factual to participants (i.e. borrow from TBL book). The girls will draw attention you're looking for.

#282 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Get a few girls to stand outside of Expo wearing your shirts to hand out fliers with specific Stern games that have bugs (or inserts not used) so it's factual to participants (i.e. borrow from TBL book). The girls will draw attention you're looking for.

Ah, The Book of Phil. Man, I sure wish it hadn't gotten ugly, DP was better with him around. There was real marketing, they knew how to grab the spotlight. They just owned Expo last year. Can't wait to see the final game, sounds like they'll have a "final" version?

I think Heighway will have several production Full Throttles and a bigger booth. Probably get some more attention this year, now that it's tuned up and done and shipping. Need the Twin Peaks girls in Full Throttle gear:

Full Throttle Girl

#283 4 years ago

Got bored waiting for code so I did my own update in the version of a new lighting scheme

Just a pro but I'm happy with it.

20150923_200115.jpg

#284 4 years ago

What do you use to attached the figures to the plastics?

#285 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Got bored waiting for code so I did my own update in the version of a new lighting scheme

Nice job!
Such a bright field!

#286 4 years ago

Where is my code ? And my colorDMD lol

#287 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

What do you use to attached the figures to the plastics?

Screws Just kidding or course. I just used some double sided tape so that it could be removed down the road if desired. Had them on there since we bought the game NIB a couple years ago. All have stayed put just fine.

#288 4 years ago

Where Do you have the figures from?

#289 4 years ago

Couple people have asked so here is the light map of what I did.

Key:
- Square = Backpanel lights
- Round = Standard GI lights
- Diamonds = Spotlights
- "W" = White
- "G" = Green
- "R" = Red
- "IB" = Ice Blue
- "SL" = Sun Light

Couple of special notes. The spot to the left of the hulk is something I added as well as the spot light that is under the apron. All inserts were just color matched.

avengers.jpg

Quoted from lash:

Where Do you have the figures from?

I bought them from walmart and target back when the machine first came out.

#290 4 years ago

just noticed I forgot one light.

Under the Avengers insignia on the shooter ramp I put a slow color changer. I took a toilet paper roll tube and cut it to length and then wrapped it with foil and placed it under the ramp around that GI light. It really makes that part much more noticeable. Still looked good with just the light there (no tube) but I wanted it to be more filling thus the added mod.

#291 4 years ago

It was reported on the Game of Thrones live gameplay thread that George Gomez says an Avengers update is coming eventually.

#292 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It was reported on the Game of Thrones live gameplay thread that George Gomez says an Avengers update is coming eventually.

#293 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It was reported on the Game of Thrones live gameplay thread that George Gomez says an Avengers update is coming eventually.

stay tuned.....

#294 4 years ago

Eventually?

#295 4 years ago

"Eventually" was my word. I could not recall the exact phrase that was used (I believe that was Jody in the video???), but he did say George said it was happening in some similar terms used in the English language.

#296 4 years ago

Just saw Jody on the video, his quote is:

"I know there is a code update being worked on, I'm not sure exactly when."

#297 4 years ago

Then Gomez texted Jody and confirmed Yes, "don't know when".

But at least that has been the clearest confirmation we've had.

#298 4 years ago

Ok, I'll keep holding my breath. I hope they do so I can shove it down Quarter Grabbers throat.

#299 4 years ago

Good enough for me. I'm a nib owner, will hang onto it a while longer and wait for the update.

#300 4 years ago

Pretty excited to watch the feed and hear them say Avengers code being worked on. Hoping sooner than later

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