I was responding to the quote I pulled from your message. I bothered to post because no one here was calling it his best work, except for the man that did the work. Seemed to me you were being a bit argumentative is all.

No, I just don't agree with his statement that it's his best work ever. Ignoring all other factors...art, sound, code, dots... I don't think it's his best design. Metallica has better flow to me (safer fan layout though...), Tron has a better center shot (Still has a post "issue" with the post by the pop bumpers on the outside left GO FIGURE......can dribble off the left side and go STDM).

I think the one thing Borg is consistently doing that I really appreciate is having shots on the sides that are VERY far down on the flipper. He seems to be liking those, which makes use of more of the playfield in a non-random way. He's easily my favorite designer, and has been for 2 years now...but pure layout wise...there's some risks that won on TWD (right ramp, woodbury code notwithstanding, stupid hard drop targets being as low as they are ) and some that just don't feel "right" to me (pops feed, ball hop off the right inlane seems to be very common on Pros, the well walker and barn head not registering hits.).

Not even sure I can blame WW and the head on him....that's the mechanical engineer's fault for the switch or bracket design probably.

John Borg does not agree with you...

"...Mr. Borg HAS been quoted on record as saying this is his best design ever..."

http://creditdotpinball.com/tag/john-borg/

See what I did there?

lol, I get what your saying but I'm probably not the best qualified to participate in your argument as I don't have experience on other pins I can expound from. I'll shut up now.

GNR is probably his best work. TWD is pretty good too though. I enjoy mine. Looking forward to KISS.

I agree with Borg, it's his best design ever and my favorite Stern pin!

It's a good design. And I will take Borgs's comment kind of like Gary's line that his favorite machine he's ever made is "the one on the line".
I don't mind the pops feed, or the "brutal" outlanes, or even the magnet throw SDTM. That shit is pinball! If every game had to have a "safer" feed from the pops, or neutered outlanes, it would be pretty boring. There is no wrong or right really, it's all just what the game is at the end of the day.
Don't like it? good for you! But you might miss out on the enjoyment to be had. And just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is wrong, or bad design/programming, whatever. It just means that you don't like it.
Apparently, Borg, and many others, like it.
I bet even Lyman is starting to like it!

Have you seen Horde Mode? Haha - I think it's safe to say - he likes it! He really really likes it!

Ask Gary Stern which pinball machine is his favorite. Much like the above, it's always the current one on the line.

-Mark

Yes! Beat me to it!

-Mark

So your saying that Mr. Borg feels the most current one he has designed always tops all of his prior efforts?

I don't know. I don't wish to belittle his opinion on this. Has he ever went on record saying "this is my best design ever" before?

But maybe your right, perhaps John spent a little too much time in the hard coating room before he went on record:

New code update for TWD LE/Premium is posted at Stern as of today (5-30-15)

Pretty sure this is just to fix the issue that some people were having uploading the recent code update.

V1.25 from face book https://www.facebook.com/sternpinball/photos/a.10151651185924244.1073741825.136972659243/10153328976809244/?type=1&theater

Great, I just spent 2 hours working on sound replacement for 1.24....glad I wasn't that far along.
Guess I'll move on to 1.25 and start over now.

HORDE!!!! Holy shit. Just got it for the first time. Had not seen spoiler videos. Wow. That was the best mode of pinball I've ever played. The lights alone were sick, and the shaker pulsating to the beat. That was insane.

People say bad stuff about Stern but they are starting to get gold stars in my eyes. Releasing an update on a Saturday gets a thumbs up.

Haha, that's exactly how I felt when I made it into Horde Mode. Lyman made a deal with the devil or something.

Just put 1.24 on my LE, works great! So they have released another?

Ugh! Sorry about that man. I know someone who is really looking forward to you completing your pinball browser version!

Playing the new code with stock call outs over the last week really made me miss the work you did. The stock call outs are really, really bad.

Bad ass, isn't it?! I can't wait to see what Last Man Standing and Siege have to offer.

I don't know if I will ever get to LMS unless they change the rules so that you get two kills for each multi-kill. Wouldn't you think you'd get two kills for a "multi-kill"?

Surpassed TABA on Lotr for me, by a mile!

I need to add a shaker to mine now.

I can't even imagine how cool LMS is going to be. Man Lyman is great!

Can anybody tell me what the Zombie bombs are supposed to do?

Using a bomb will kill a zombie. In Horde if you drain and just need one more zombie you can use a bomb and save the ball. You can also start the other multiballs like this if you just need one more hit.

Thanks Rob, I am hard at work...a lot of the sound placements have changed so I'm kinda building it up from scratch again from the first version. Good news is I'm using some new speech in places so it will be a new experience

Seeing the red light show on Horde, it's a shame we don't see much of the red in the rest of the game. It doesn't have to be as intense as Horde, just some more red with zombie kills or something. Just a taste.

You can make the LE or Pro pretty eerie and gloomy while protecting it at the same time with Pinbits TWD protectors.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbits-twd-le-protectors

The update is only for the reset issue, no new content. I thought with the new macro feature in pinball browser that it is now simple to change the custom sounds from one version to another? With just the click of a button I think?

John is a good friend...

And yes, I would believe what he says way more than Gary's standard response...

But on the other hand, it's really difficult (if not impossible) for every new game a designer designs to be his best or better than the previous design.

John himself has said it was going to be really hard to top Metallica...and this was shortly before TWD was released.

In my neck of the woods, as an operator, my customers find the game really frustrating, even with the ball save timer set to maximum. It earns very good to great for a short amount of time (1-2 months) and then falls off the face of the earth at a given location. I don't have enough locations to rotate it that quickly. We'll see if the new code changes things, but I am doubtful.

And unlike Metallica, there were a couple major issues out of his control which hampered the game. Read enough Pinside and you'll quickly see what they were.

-Mark

Hopefully the new update will give it more staying power on location. I had not turned mine on in a few months and was going to sell if this update was not good. There was just not much to do before. No way I sell now. I have to think the update will help the earnings.

Interesting. It seems as an operator you would see first hand the ebb and flow of pin popularity as it relates to the title being in the public spot light. When the show is airing does it coincide with increased earnings? I think they just started shooting new episodes for the upcoming season but they're not slated to be released until October. Long way off.

I am grinning stupidly and heaving a sigh of relief. I waited out for code this time (as opposed to MET) , before I sold. TWD was being comtemplated in a trade when the update came.

Way better game now.

I picked up the Pro a few days after it was built, right before Expo in mid-October. The first location I took it to, it more or less coincided with the start of the new season, and Halloween. I moved it in February to another location about the start of the second half-season premiere. I really didn't see a related spike in the earnings at either location like I was hoping.

Out of all the Sterns built since 2012, Star Trek is by far the most steady earner for me. It has been at the same location since September, and is still earning well, while others have come and gone next to it.

On a related note, Avengers suddenly picked up a lot the past month out of nowhere... I attribute that to new movie. I guess you never know. All I know is TWD has been an overall disappointment so far.

-Mark

I might move it back to its original location to see!

Like you, I was/am contemplating selling mine, to get something else, maybe KISS.

I'll try to post back here with results if I do rotate TWD back.

-Mark

HORDE!!! Best mode in all of pinball, hands down, bar none!!! I need that shaker.

And for me, its the best shot layout and most fun pin I've ever played.

I love my cookie cutter pins too but this one is off the charts.

There are 9 shots to make or think about every time, 7 from the right flipper and 6 from the left. And this is why the pops are perfectly positioned and integrate beautifully into the game.

Woodbury
Right ramp Arena
Tunnel
Well Walker
Prison
Riot loop
Left Ramp/Bicycle Girl
Barn loop
Drop targets

Some of them are tight as shit and difficult, reminds me of WPT's long tight shots.

Thank you Borg and now Lyman for making this pin for me worth every freaking penny I've paid for it. The only other one i can truly say that about is LOTR. But this one is better.

Haha I bet everyone that experiences Horde for the first time will have a similar reaction. It is very special. You haven't even experienced it with a shaker though. Just wait.

I said it before... Lyman made a deal with the Devil!

I just installed that little piece of felt tape on the tunnel guide and wow what a difference. That guy was right! Now both loop shots miss the pops completely every time. Awesome what a tiny piece of tape can do.

I don't know if anyone remembers, I can't find the old thread and I can't remember what pinsider said it. But when TWD first came out a pinsider said in a thread "it would be cool if" and then, to a tee, described Horde, right down to the last detail. So thank whatever pinsider that was because he came up with Horde. It also means Stern reads these threads very carefully and frequently, and if you have a code idea, please post it. If it sounds amazing like Horde did, Stern will put it in the code.

Off Topic, but ...That's exactly why I made these threads for Aliens. To get my ideas out there. Fingers crossed!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-this-is-what-we-want
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-movie-quote-call-outs

It's my 3rd time to Horde in about a 20 plays since update. Now I think I know what's going on! I had a game of 410 million, 50 on Horde, those bastards keep coming. The save is perfect.

It was Cleland that came up with tape trick I believe QB

If Alien isn't great with all that material then we can blame Aurich!

Oh.. you definitely need a shaker. It is really well integrated for the whole game but Horde uses that shaker like nothing I've ever seen. Pulsating ever so gently to the beat of the music with the lights. Freakin' awesome.

What's the consensus on the felt tape trick, I mean it doesn't come from Stern officially. So aren't you guys butchering the playfield design? I need proof that Borg meant for the ball to go all the way around.. I mean is Papa adding the tape too?

If you are a purest you probably don't want to add the tape.

It adds an extra level of excitement to the game, to have the ball speeding directly at the flippers at ultra high speed more often!! Papa does all sorts of things to their games to make them play harder, so I wouldn't really count them.

A little mod like the felt doesn't "butcher" anything. It just a slight adjustment
I do this type of thing all the time, to make the games play as good as possible. Things sometimes get out of alignment, or sometimes aren't correctly aligned at the factory. IMO just set the game up to play the way you think is best - but you'll only know if you try it. So just try it, and if you don't like it take it off.

Just added the shaker tonight - one of the best uses of a shaker for sure! Highly Recommended

Also got to Horde and...


... I predict TWD will ultimately end up very highly rated as a top game, but it will take a while.

A lot of haters out there, as is typically the case initially for brutal games like TWD. But the challenge is a big part of making it a long time keeper. I'm not surprised some say it isn't doing well on location - neither did Twilight Zone. I have to agree with John Borg too

No, I have to disagree with you there. TWD will never be a highly rated game. Too many trolls giving low ratings, in some cases without even playing the game, and they will never change their ratings, most people don't change them because they believe to rate on initial release code and that's the way it was when it came out so the rating sticks Pinside ratings are a joke anyway.

I agree that Pinside ratings may never reflect. And it may take years for the consensus to build, but ultimately the word will get out. It's just too cool a game to stay buried by ignorance and misinformed judgment calls. Of course that's just IMO.

Actually if you loosen screws and pull ball guide a little no tape is required, I was going to take pictures to show what I did, but got caught up in multiple mods. I noticed it on game 3 when I first got pin, that ball would stop at pops and made an adjustment. Make sure you are level as well.

Do you guys have a link to the felt mod? I remember seeing it somewhere but can't find it.

Also, anyone have a link to felt that can be used for this, preferably at Amazon (since I have Prime)?

This is true.

It is very rare to see a pin make a big recovery after initial bad reviews and ratings. I feel bad for my original bad reviews based on the Pro on location that I played many times based on it's terrible SDTM drains from the pops.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twd-left-orbit-shot-mod

I was thinking of trying this too. It's such a close tolerance, just a little nudge keeps the ball flying!
Thanks for posting, now I'll check it out and see which I prefer.

I like it and think its kinda fun but lets not get carried away. Watched a friend put up a billion on the game last night & he renamed the mode "Bored" lol

lol - Is your friends initials KME?

Horde is the kind of creativity in pinball that takes a game to a new level of immersion and fun. If it's too easy, I'm sure Lyman can/will tweak it - maybe an adjustment in the menu for different difficulties. What's easy for some can be difficult for others. Horde in a game room with no other distractions (dark and quiet) is absolutely awesome!

This is the kind of mode/immersion that many other themes can't achieve, because it just doesn't fit the theme. If you're into the theme and have the right setting - Horde is definitely one of the best modes out there. And it's not even the final wizard mode - Last Man Standing awaits! Go Lyman