San Diego, CA
Quoted from Whysnow:Dave Sanders!
FullT and now Aliens. The guy knows flow better than anyone.
LMAO.....Alien as a flow layout. 
(Topic ID: 190334)
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Quoted from Whysnow:well, obviously...
yes, it is.
You can hit a unique 10 way flow shot to every major shot in the game. The ball only stops 2x in the left gouch and the scoop to do this combo (follow the rainbow and then various other colors.)
The return to flipper shots, combined with intentional on the fly play style, and need to bounce pass for the next shot is astounding.
By far the best flowing game ever built IMHO.
Granted you need to actually play the game and learn the shots to get a feel for it. It is a wide body but plays like a standard with the flow of the shots.
Maybe watching you play it on the stream gave me the impression it's a clunkfest.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I was joking months ago about a giant bash Death Star toy but wow, I didn't think they wouldn't actually do it, lol.
Why would it be a joke? It's one of the main focal points of New Hope and RotJ.
Quoted from Aurich:The more I think about this the more I wonder why the original trilogy?
I'm a Star Wars geek. Have hundreds of toys, I don't collect just anything though, just things the emotionally resonate with me.
And the thing is, we've seen all this before. It's the 40th anniversary. Any of the art could have been on a lunchbox. It's the 3rd or 4th time the original films have been made into a pin (depending on how you count).
It's like making a new Playboy pin. Why would you do that? It's been done to death.
Ritchie likes action. Do Rogue One. Do something new. Data East, Sega, Stern, it's all the same company. Going back to the same well.
I want to play it. But I wish it looked like it was done by super fans of the films.
Maybe the animation package will help. Seems dumb to make people wait a week to bitch about things before officially releasing stuff. Maybe a video would shut us all up.
You really have to wonder about this? The 1st trilogy is their bread & butter. All the pinside Nancy's need to relax a bit & wait till we see hi-res pics of the game and some gameplay features & videos. Man what a bunch of pansies this site as brought together. 
Quoted from rvdv:Horrible looking !!!!
Sure hope it plays great.
Come back in a week and tell us what you think.
Quoted from Khabbi:All I can think of is the times over the past year or two I heard people saying "just wait until Star Wars is released, everyone is going to want one!!". "It's going to be over the top!!"
Well, if this was an episode of mythbusters, I'd say that theory has been debunked.
Lets see what people say once better pics and some gameplay vids are released. I'm guessing many people will be eating some crow.
Quoted from NimblePin:They can put those images at 4K resolution Smassa and it wouldn't change my mind one bit.
Heck,
What we'd probably notice with the future high res pics would be the Sonic badge on the apron and some "S" logo'd flippers...
Guess we will have to wait and see. Would be interesting to see who is bashing it now & to check back in a year from now to see if its in their collection.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:i've never bought a game I thought looked like shit from the get go.
Yes cause ACDC is quite the looker.
Good gameplay & rules can make up for quite a bit. I also think the art is going to look better then what was 1st shown to us.
Quoted from jar155:It's literally a tweaked AC/DC Pro. It's far more similar to that than anything else.
It's a fan layout. You'll find similarities to many games. I'm not seeing a scoop shot on the right of AC/DC. Also there is only one orbit shot to the left of the left ramp on AC/DC.
Quoted from jar155:Come on, man. It's obviously a modified AC/DC pro, just as Star Trek is a modified Spider-Man. That doesn't necessarily equate to a bad thing. It will shoot well, and the code will make all the biggest differences in making it feel different. But there's no denying that he's re-using concepts.
I guess you were looking for something new and different then the flow style layout that SR usually puts out? Something like avengers??? Lol
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It's a joke really. Steve Ritchie's shit knows more about pinball than most you guys. Sorry, gotta call it like I see it.
My question is do the peanuts in his shit know more then most of the people whining in this thread? My initial answer would be YES!!!! 
Quoted from kpg:Anyone find it coincidental Stern re-releases AC/DC, just as they release Star Wars? They have pretty much the same playfields. Maybe they are getting a deal to manufacture the same playfields with different art work.
Also, since Dwight was pulled off GB to work on Star Wars- there's a good chance the code is going to be exactly like that - but 're-skinned' with the Star Wars theme. I really hope not, as the linear modes on GB got old after a few months.
What makes ACDC's layout fun to play is really Lyman's code. I hope Dwight can improve on what he did with GB because that code never really improved after Day 1 and that was lame. Lots of bugs in it too.
Are you F'ing serious? Its not the same layout! Yes its similar but its not the same & its not like they just put new art on the same layout like they did with FG/Shrek.
Im curious what was the last game that really flopped for Stern? Mustang?...It wasn't a huge seller but it is quite a fun game. Something tells me they know what they are doing. I just read through the Alien thread and you wanna talk about a clusterfuck!?!? Something tells me Stern is probably laughing more reading this thread then are overly concerned about it.
Quoted from kst8cat:WWE was a big flop. Mustang may have had trouble selling all the LEs and the premium run was short, but I believe the pro sold decently, especially as time went on and people realized it's a good-playing game with good code to boot.
Oh yeah forgot about WWE. Either way they have a pretty good track record of releasing fun games in recent years.
Quoted from PinMonk:Not that Trudeau game...WWE was the biggest recent Stern flop. Epic, even. Took Trudeau two games to get back in the swing of things. He admitted he was a little rusty at first, and it shows. But, after the near-greatness of Ghostbusters, I really hope the Guardians of the Galaxy rumor IS true and Trudeau is on it. He's on a great trajectory and he could make that game excellent. Just please...PLEASE, normal flipper gaps. OR if you must do something "unique" how about zipper flippers? Haven't seen those in a long time.
Rather see Elwin do Guardians then Trudeau.
Quoted from PinMonk:If he just started at Stern in March, that seems unlikely unless the horizon for Guardians is WAY out there.
Depends on if they go with his Archer Layout since that is pretty much complete.
Quoted from PinMonk:I hope not. GotG deserves a "world under the glass" not another wide-open playfield.
Wide open??? Ummm not sure what you are talking about here.
Quoted from Pahuffman:How would Stern let this pass for press photos?
All these sweet pics and that's what you focus on? Lol
Quoted from GhostThruster:All of the non pinball people I've shown the video to say that it looks awesome and incredible. Really goes to show that perhaps Stern does know who they are marketing to and it certainly doesn't seem like pinball people. Undoubtedly it will do well on location and maybe that is all Stern was looking for here as sad as it is for us pinheads.
This game is going to crush everything else on location. Probably more then 2-1 on coin drop.
Quoted from Aurich:Here's the truth as I see it: this is a Ritchie game, sure it will flow well. It's also very similar to a lot of his other layouts, no denying that, so the code is going to be super key on this one. If Dwight knocks it out of the park people will be happy with the game. If it's fun but nothing special I don't see it lasting long, just too much like all the other Stern games you can flip with similar feels. Code is gonna be the big differentiator.
I assumed the video mode thing was while the ball was in play, would be incredibly lame without that. Could be fun. At least it's kind of a new idea.
This is a title i'm sure will get as much attention as needed. You don't pay for a license like Star Wars and ignore the code and just move on to the next game. This has the potential to be one of their all time best sellers.
Quoted from koops:Also Disney bought stars wars from Lucas for 4 million. What a bargain
I assume you are either trying to be funny or may wanna look up the sale price again.
My bad I just saw that video. Must have been happy hour in the U.K. Lol
Quoted from kermit24:He is making fun of Gary full of vodka...
Ya I just saw the YouTube video. Let's all just be glad he isn't building the machines. 
Quoted from Walleyefisher:Another unimaginative excrement from our friends at Stern. Can't wait to see how they ruin Elvira III
You must be in the I like my pinball companies to put out 1 machine every 2 years camp?
Quoted from Walleyefisher:Nah, I'm in the pinball games should be fun camp.
This...
http://gamertheory.com/2017/06/stern-pinball-believes-differentiation-happens-code-level-not-design/
May gameroom is full of fun Stern Games.
AC/DC
Metallica
Aerosmith
Game of Thrones
These are all pretty fun games to me. Maybe you should start up a company and try to build games that are better?
Quoted from Bendit:Maybe so. But JJP shipped The Hobbit with the bezel, as a complete "art" package.
Shouldn't we expect the same from Stern?
Not too hard to include extra stuff when you only put out 1 game every couple years:
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Consumers can determine the quality and value for the $1 difference MSRP cost of comparison of titles.
Star Wars Limited Edition versus Dialed-In Limited Edition.
No other editions are compared, as SWLE is the best of the title to be offered.
I do not believe a game features matrix is required for proper comparison in this case.
Who gives a flying f*&%...thats the problem with all these JJP fluffers. Go have your little circle jerk in one of the JJP threads. You don't see half the people going into Hobbit threads saying how its a huge POS (which it is btw & yes I owned one).
Quoted from TomGWI:Dialed In definitely has more packed into it. I'll even go as far as to say Hobbit has more stuff on the playfield than Star Wars. My question is which will be more fun to play.
I know for certain that Hobbit won't be nearly as fun as Star Wars or any Steve Ritchie game as of late.
Quoted from PinMonk:Seeing this in discrete terms like this is not a reflection of reality. I'll be the first to agree that Hobbit is no good and probably never will be because it is constrained by physical layout. True pin fans don't have allegiance to one manufacturer and can see the good and bad of each. Stern hasn't had a stellar launch of their open SW. JJP had a TERRIBLE unveiling of Dialed In. See what I did there? Both manufacturers have pluses and minuses and competition is good for everyone.
Dude they aren't even in the same ball park. JJP announces a game & releases it like what over a year later? Stern shows you some pics & usually a gameplay video follows in a couple weeks & game start shipping a month or so later. I'm sure Stern could load their games up with all kinds of crap if they decided they only wanted to release 1 game every 2 years.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Will disagree as would many others.
I like to play fast & fun pinball. You prefer to play whack a mole for 45 mins. To each their own.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Funny as the Hobbit can play pretty fast and I've never had a 45 minute game. Its obvious you know nothing about the games deep objective based rulset.
Should I say that Game of Thrones is hitting plastic ramps over and over again? No, there's more to it.
Ive had it cranked all the way up in the back legs & flippers pretty strong it it doesn't play fast at all. Orbits are slow and the stupid beast pop ups ruin any consistent flow you can get especially during Multiball. Hey its ok some people like slow & clunky games. I'm not one that does.
Quoted from solarvalue:I've never understood this argument: Stern not wanting to take the time to produce a better game is a good thing?
They have made plenty of good games and also some great ones. AC/DC, Metallica, GoT, Aerosmith, Hell even Spiderman & that game hardly has any complex mechs on it & it is pretty darn fun too. They have just shown us that you don't need to pile on a bunch of crap on the play field that will most likely just slow things down in order to make a fun game.
Quoted from Jvspin:I like Ritchie's flow fests and I like Lawlor's stop and go controlled play with cool toys that interact with the ball. Variety is good.
Lawlors layout for Di is a huge step in the right direction for JJP....Unfortunately the theme and LCD animations can't compare to what they have put out in the past. Hopefully they give him a better theme next time around.
Quoted from flashinstinct:Still doesnt mean that the price is not inflated.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you buy one. Let me know when you find a new pinball machine under $5200.
Quoted from jonesjb:This is what you would be able to do if Heighway secured the license.
lol most idiotic post of the whole thread. Well up near the top anyways.
Quoted from Manic:Yeah its the same stuff we've seen since the late 70's on kids lunchboxes so it's hard to get excited about.
Not being a big SW buff I just always assumed the art HAD to be kinda campy and family friendly but then I see some of the "attitude" that can be applied to it on comic books, etc..
Would have been cool if Stern had used some art with *attitude* on this machine but I guess playing it safe is the name of the game. Trying to appeal to the largest possible audience and using nostalgia is to be expected I suppose. Still...
If you read above they weren't really given the freedom from Disney to be too creative.
Quoted from Rarehero:Phenomenal, deep, non-linear game without ghosting inserts or cabinet splitting....why wouldn't I buy it?
Cause its not that fun. GoT it way easier to understand rules wise too.
Quoted from TomGWI:I feel the same way about Hobbit. 40 modes and have no idea what to do with each one.
Some of them are stupid and you complete them with one shot. Hardly something I'd call a mode.
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:why hasn't stern released a gameplay video yet with pro's already on the production line? geeeeeeez
crickets.
they are kinda of blowing it with their 'marketing' i'd say.
Game was announced end of may. How many other companies announce a game and release a video less then a month later???
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Yeah, but if they're being built, video is easy to do. So why WOULDN'T they? Hmm...
Maybe cause they don't have too??? They are going to sell like crazy wether or not they put a video out when YOU think they should.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:You'll probably have to wait a month to see the hyper drive ramp as PROs are getting built now. The first live stream will be a PRO.
Well when they Jack did a stream for AS it was on a LE so this is not always the case.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:It's definitely up to them how they want to market their game. It's just very painful to watch how poorly they choose to do so. A lot of us have been waiting for this title for a long time. Our first glimpse at the game came from low res pictures in a video not at all intended for pinball fans. The art in those original images looked questionable, and for the most part the initial reaction from the community was disappointment. They put out high res pictures a week later.
They allowed a promotional video to be shown that was just all-around poor. They eluded to (or at least others close to the situation have) a gameplay video being available "soon". Soon is subjective.. give some dates if you want people to have a reasonable expectation on when they can expect to see gameplay or more information. You have people's attention now, why not use that opportunity to build excitement on another update (if you don't have it ready now)? They have an opportunity to control a lot of the dialogue and perception surround this product, and they don't seem to understand how to do that.
Like I said earlier show me a pinball company that announces a title and has a gameplay video less then a month later? You really think they need to build up excitement for this release anymore then what's already there? The sense of entitlement by some of the people on this forum is quite amusing.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Kaneda allready told last week he wanted to post a podcast with Sterns PR Jared this (last) monday.
They recorded it but Stern wanted to listen (maybe edit?) and authorize it before it get's uploaded.
-> WTF, shouldn't the PR guy most of all people KNOW what he is allowed to say and what not?!
It is Disney/Lucas they are dealing with so it's probably better to error on the safe side.
Quoted from Hoser:Is that a JAWS logo on Elwin's hat? Let rumor central begin!
Pretty sure it says "JUGGS"
Quoted from badbilly27:Yeah it's like groundhog day. I wonder if the vicious cycle could be broken with some say GTM planning and a dash of marketing.
Yeah you're right they are doing it all wrong. Star Wars is sure to flop now and will probably get crushed in sales by DI.
Quoted from ATLpb:After seeing Keith's hat, I'm financially preparing for it.
Your money is safe. lol
Quoted from konghusker:True. I can see that. It's going to be extremely successful regardless. It just doesn't seem to be good business practice towards customers is all.
Which pinball company do you think does it better?
Quoted from konghusker:It's just odd that dead flip said it would be soon, and he was looking for a han solo costume last minute. That was a couple weeks ago already, and still no scheduled streaming date. It sounded like he was going to be able to stream it, so what happened? If he doesn't stream this week, then I would imagine owners of pro's will have theirs next week. It's all just odd.
I don't think anyone is going to have any versions of it in the next week or 2.
Quoted from Procrastinator:You keep throwing out that statement with zero to back it up. So because some, including myself may have legitimate issues with stern means we're trolls who wouldn't buy any NIB pin? Get a grip man
Who do you feel does it better then Stern now?
Quoted from Whysnow:Does what better?
Playfields... well, anyone currenetly
Cabinents... again, anyone currently
Cab decals... yup, anyone currently
Pump out many different games with half baked code which may never get done with the ocassional great game in between the shit sandwich... well, nobody does that better.
Yeah all those companies that can pump out nice play fields every couple years. Same goes for Cabinets & Decals. Go back to shilling for games that never get created, its what you do best.
Quoted from Whysnow:hey now... I am batting over 80% on boutique games I have supported/been a fan of. At least I actually support new pinball rather than schilling for cheap crap no matter what the quality/theme.
Honest question >> Do you just prefer the 3 games per year model regarless of quality/code completion over the 1 game per year model with refined quality that appears to get better each game?
I would say folks that buy every new Stern without question are part of what will tank this all at some point. A bit more of a descerning spend is needed by both those that support the risks of boutique pinball and those that buy blindly from everything Stern pumps out.
Sorry but nobody is even close to Stern right now. I've owned games from the 2 other players that have put atleast 2 games out so far and while Stern isn't perfect they have taken care of every issue I've had (some minor and a couple quite major).
My Hobbit was far from perfect but JJp took care of the issues I had so they deserve credit for standing behind their product too.
That being said they are still way behind the game as far as being able to announce a title and getting it out in a relatively short time frame. They also don't have anything even close to a pro level stern as far as it being worth operating a JJP.
Spooky you have to give them credit for what they have been able to do but they still feel very much like home brew design and AMH was flawed by Playfield design issues while RZ layout just did nothing for me.
All that being said none of the companies are perfect but there is still only one game in town that you can pick up a phone and have quite a few titles to choose from and have the game in home in less then a couple weeks.
Quoted from Whysnow:that is blantantly false.
I can make a phone call right now and get 3 different JJP games and 2 different Spooky games in a couple weeks.
That is 5 games with 1 phone call. A few of them I could even get delivered today if I wanted to pay for it.
Lol really? They have come out with 3 games in what 6+ years???? How many games have Stern come out with in that time frame? Dude give it a rest it's not even close.
Quoted from Skyemont:Maybe there is no footage because if there was, maybe some would back out based on what they saw and Stern knows this.
You must be bored with the lack of interest in the JJP thread to always be making your way over to Stern threads.
Quoted from Chambahz:Based on your current collection, I'm going to take your recommendation with a grain of salt.
And let's just ignore the comment generally stating that Stern hasn't created anything recently that's well-designed and fun. (Which include some of the very best games ever made by anyone, in my opinion.)
Honest comment though: glad that you and others are enjoying Dialed In!
Wouldn't take too much of what he says along with a couple other JJP cheerleaders too serious.
Quoted from finnflash:Kiss is much better then AS
Kiss is fun but has major design issues with the placement of the scoop and the inconsistency of the Gene kick out.
Quoted from chuckwurt:But what about getting 2 billion per shot in stark bonus rounds? That's the kind of stuff I think needs fixing. I think Robs talking about that stuff too.
That has been fixed already.
Quoted from Jojo1111:I suspect that hyperspace loop is exactly that. Just a visual gimmick that will not affect gameplay in any way. You heard it here, Pro and Prem will play identically, more closely than any previous SR game since he came back to Stern.
Well seeing as you can add up to 6 balls in that mode it may score slightly different.
Quoted from PinMonk:The excuse with Batman'66 shipping with 0.57 was that it was a last-minute thing and they only had a few months to pull it together. No such timeline for Star Wars, which supposedly had a long lead. So there's no excuse for shipping with beta code on Star Wars, except that Stern is pushing out so much stuff they can't get games even out of beta before they ship. That's wrong behavior and should not be rewarded.
You do understand that working with such a strict licensee can lead to things taking longer then originally hoped. It's a shame Stern couldn't get it out in your timetable.
Quoted from PinMonk:I've worked with plenty of licenses at the commercial level. I know the drill from the inside.
If they got a mode with a giant, low res static Star Destroyer on Hoth (completely out of scale with the walkers behind it) through on the software released to the public, blaming the licensor for delays and beta code at release is an excuse. If the licensor was that anal, that wouldn't exist. This is a Stern issue that is becoming more pervasive as time goes on. Accepting it will make it worse.
How many products have you put out there with a Star Wars license? Care to share which items they are?
Quoted from jar155:Delay the game a few weeks then. For those that are planning to pass on it for home ownership, it sucks that many operators do not update their code regularly or even at all. They really should be sending games out with 1.0+ code on them. And I really think that the license holder would prefer that games go out in a manner that best reflects the license.
Lol delay the game you say. All the majority of Pinside has been doing is bitching and moaning for weeks about no game play video. So Stern finally puts one out with some good players too on obvious very early code and now more Pinsiders bitch and moan about some things that look off. God I wish someone at Stern had big enough balls to tell the majority of you to F off.
Quoted from PinMonk:I haven't done Star Wars specifically, but a license is a license is a license, and I have close friends who worked with Lucasfilm software under license. So, yeah, direct knowledge of the other side, Lucasfilm, even, before they were Disney.
Lol then maybe you shouldn't comment on things Star Wars Related? You have no idea how strict they are or aren't.
Quoted from PinMonk:They've been doing that already. Hadn't you noticed?
Pretty sure they have been taking care of every customer that's had an issue. Maybe you should just chill in the JJP threads since that appears to be your comfort zone.
Quoted from PinMonk:Read my reply more carefully. If you think Lucasfilm has a special division for Star Wars licensing that's completely separate with totally more strict rules from all their other Lucasfilm properties, you're out of your mind. Or didn't you know that Star Wars is a Lucasfilm property?
And the Hoth Star Destroyer assault video in the public release is a pretty good tell that they're not that strict, or someone just doesn't care that much.
Lucasfilm has nothing to do with this License. It's all Disney now. I'm sure they are very picky about something they paid over 4 billion for.
Quoted from PinMonk:Well, okay, but the point still stands that the Hoth Star Destroyer scene in the released game clearly demonstrates that someone at Disney doesn't care enough to account for the "delays" that caused there to be only a 0.83 beta release at launch.
Did you ever think that maybe it's possible that was a bug in the code and may be cleaned up on future updates?
Quoted from PinMonk:Well, yes, but that AGAIN goes to the licensor strictness. We agree, based on what you're saying, but you just don't know it. IF they were a strict licensor, that Hoth Star Destroyer assault never would have seen the light of say outside Stern and Disney, and the youtube stream would be edited or gone. Obviously they're not that strict.
I guess some people tend to focus on every little negative thing while others are looking forward to what's to come and not as focused on a couple bugs in some beta code. If it bothers so many people they should just wait till the game is at an acceptable level before they purchase.
Quoted from jar155:Do you know what being an apologist gets you? A worse product. Stop defending incompetence and start expecting better. It's the only way to make Stern improve.
You don't owe Stern anything. Chill with the white knight stuff and realize that critics just want a better product.
Also, if you've ever launched a product professionally, you would be appalled at how shoddy Stern's releases are handled. They want to talk about how they are the most legit and professional outfit in pinball, but they don't want to act like it. That shouldn't be defended nor excused away.
We pay for better than we get. It's a shame.
Nobody is making you buy anything. Stern has a long history of taking time to update game codes. If you aren't patient you should wait till the game is at a level you like. I'm not making excuses for anyone just stating the facts of what has been a track record of Sterns process in game code.
Quoted from jints56:Just my opinion, but no games should ever be shipped incomplete. Waiting on licensee approval, fine, but don't ship......
Who has shipped a game recently where there was never an update? Games these days are a lot easier to update then the late 90's where you had to replace ROM chips. I'd rather they shipped the games when playable and then continue to work on the code then just have them shipped "complete" code wise like they did back in the late 90's. End up with some pretty shallow games doing it that way.
Quoted from jints56:I agree. My "incomplete" comment was regarding shipping games with no SD cards.
I think this may be the 1st time it happened and I'm pretty sure most people got their SD cards soon after.
Quoted from John_I:They probably held up mailing them to get the new revision. The sky is not falling. The $5 SD card will be in hand soon enough. At least you have the machine and didn't have to wait a year from first seeing it like DI or TNA.
Build quality takes years didn't you know? 
Quoted from jints56:Once again, I agree. Just saying if it's not ready, why ship it not ready to play?
Maybe just to keep the lines moving and not have a backlog of games sitting in the loading dock? Stern isn't like the other guys out there building a hand full of games a day. I'm sure it's easier for them to just ship the game then ship the SD card out a few days later.
Quoted from jints56:Fair enough.
I know what you were getting at. Bottom line is none of the manufactures are perfect, they all have their flaws.
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