Glad I don't even remotely care about this theme!

Enjoy!

I asked my girlfriend for her first impression, since she's a huge Star Wars fan.

She said "The Death Star looks like a helmet" ....and then "I'm not sure what they are going for. It looks like a mess. Why not just get the OG Star Wars game?"

She loves the DE SW pin, btw.

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It's a window into what a casual pinball fan but hardcore Star Wars fan might think when they see all the available SW pins.

A lot of people here have been saying this will be the best selling game ever because: Star Wars fans. Star Wars fans are gonna look at this and go "$8k? ....yeah OK bye" lol

LOL...take your Alien schilling elsewhere...this thread is about a game people can actually buy and have shipped to them.

It's pinball for Rainman. Bare playfield, chess/math rules. Zzzzzzzz.

I have to imagine it's important because they left it on the Pro. I imagine the LCD will display various ships that you need to shoot by hitting the targets below.

This is the typical Steve Ritchie reveal..."The art sucks, it looks cheap, it looks sparse" ..but then once people play it, it finds its fans. Personally, the last game he made I like/love is AC/DC.

A game that looks like this is gonna have this first impression reaction, though. People have seen Metallica, Ghostbusters, Aerosmith...and when it comes to Photoshop, we've got Hobbit as a great example. The art just flat out doesn't look good - and when people are expected to pay this much, the expect good art - especially since we know it CAN be done.

I do think the Death Star toy is going to be a crowd pleaser though - the ball is gonna whip around and fly through it, it's gonna "blow up" and I'm sure there are blinding flashers inside. Unfortunately, that toy is NOT on the Pro...

I'm talking about first impressions, not gameplay impressions. ST does look cheap, does have shit art, and does look sparse. It plays smooth, but I'm not a fan of the rules and some of the presentation choices (Bones' voice integration is terrible). Steve makes the SMOOTHEST games, that's for sure....but it's just not enough for me if there isn't anything else interesting going on with the playfield design. That being said - I'm going to predict this game plays more fun than ST and GOT.

DMD?

A $5000-$8000 coin-op game will always be niche and never have widespread appeal. In the video game world right now, people are complaining that Street Fighter 2 for Switch is too expensive @ $40. Lol.

If the art looks shitty, yes. Metallica, Aerosmith & GB's unveilings were overwhelmingly positive.

It's really not, though. You wan't ugly? Look at 24, Elvis, World Poker Tour, Austin Powers, GOT...Stern is capable of TRUE UGLY. Sure, AC/DC is Photoshopped real photos, but it's stylistically cohesive throughout, has an appropriate color palette, the "poses" of the "characters" are energetic and exciting - and, at the end of the day, it "feels" like AC/DC. There's nothing offensive about it in terms of how it represents its theme.

For the record, I don't think SW is typical "Stern ugly" ....the art just looks very,very lazy and cheap. I think once lit up, it will be acceptable enough if it plays well.

799

Please, you can see the composition and characters clearly. A bunch of characters backs, heads in profile, a big white blob in the middle. It's a terrible backglass.

Every game is a hot license that was paid for and should receive full attention. People say this every time a hot new game is coming out while the last few are languishing with unfinished or buggy code. Star Wars isn't going to get the proper coding just because it's Star Wars. Just like GB and GOT, when Dwight has to work on another game, SW will be done. No guarantees it will be complete or bug free.

Neither did ST (only really had the bobble
Ship) or GOT (only really had the bobble Dragon).

Essentially the same as GOT's dragon movement or Green Goblin on Spidey'07

...but how much is it costing to create all the animation and content for that LCD? That's got to factor into the BOM.

The ball doesn't really interact with the ship...it's just a thing that reacts to hitting normal pinball things (target, magnet, coil)

Again...just kinda normal pinball stuff...the ram is essentially a captive ball or a target. It barely moves or does anything. The kicker is a coil.

The LCD is the main Pro toy. Hopefully it'll have lots of content since that's what you're gonna be looking at a lot.

Anyway - If you look at the history of Steve Ritchie games, he really doesn't "do" toys. He's about the layout, the wireforms, the flow...he likes cannons (T2, STTNG, ACDC) and upper playfields (BK2K, Elvis, GOT). His toys are mostly decoration or things that move around above the gameplay (Dancing Elvis, 24's sniper, ST's ship, GOT's dragon).

LOL...well, yeah - The Prem/LE is Steve's true vision. His Pros are always stripped bare...but some people are happy with that as long as it's fast and has good rules. Pro's got the LCD and a bouncy ship...if the LCD has content that impresses people, I think it'll end up with a good reputation.

On Hobbit,it's supposed to be a book. On SW, it looks like its purpose will be ships to "shoot" by hitting the targets. Perhaps it was by design to have a plain black bezel....so when you're playing in a dark room, you don't really notice it - and it kinda looks like ships are floating there in space.

Protection? Thicker = protection from airballs? *shrug*

I see you've sold your GB. Guess the search for fun ended, eh?

Ben & I - still having fun with Hobbit...no search necessary.

That is impossible considering GB is the worst game ever made in the history of all games, even resonating beyond the pinball universe, throughout infinity.

Not sure about that - as the main extra gimmick on SW is a speed/flow toy, while GOT's upper playfield was just a swing and a miss.

That shot says "video mode", so stopping the ball for that is def gonna happen there - but it could have other uses, too.

Except they didn't. It's phenomenal. You're thinking of GB, clearly.

Yeah, it'd have to sit on a switch for that functionality. It's prob just a video mode stopper then.

There are these wacky things called "opening the outlanes", "removing the center post", "making the incline steeper", and "changing difficulty settings". It's crazy, all games have difficulty options!

There's also this concept of "Deep games". LOTR & TSPP are examples. Games are long because they have the content to justify the length. Long doesn't = bad, if the content is there.

OH SNAP!

LOL. I don't even like the SW theme, but I'd buy 10 SW before Dominos. If Dominos has any "features" you sure don't feel them while playing. On a game like this, "Steve Ritchie" is the feature. If the code is good, then no one will care about there not being a Jedi Space Hamster bash toy.

People don't buy pinball to break down the BOM. They buy it for the theme and/or gameplay experience. Iron Man is a great example of that. All the pinball hardcores initially said it was a piece of shit because it was so barebones. Flash forward a few years - everyone wants it, it becomes the first Vault Edition. BOM = irrelevant in the long run as long as the game is fun.

Think of the big picture and how it will potentially present in the game - I'm thinking the GI goes dark, the flashers inside the "egg" flash like crazy as it explodes, accompanied by big sound effects and music - and perhaps an outward insert sweep to simulate the explosion effect. It'll probably look/feel cool. Think about MM - the castle explosion would be pretty lame without the lights and sounds, right?

LOL - waaaah - so because you're the one person on the planet who hasn't seen SW, they should tailor the license to you? That's the most insane type of entitlement I've seen in a while here, and that's saying something for this hobby. Even people who haven't seen Star Wars know who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are. As for GOT - let's say they didn't let you chose a House up front ...since you don't know the show, you wouldn't understand the context of anything mid-game either.

Worst "constructive criticism" ever.

AC/DC - choose your song/mode
Transformers - choose Autobot or Decepticon

I'm not a novice and I've been pretty good about picking up rules and nuances in tons of games....GOT is still like deciphering quantum physics to me...I've given up on trying to understand it. If I play it, I just enjoy the flow, shoot the colored arrows and go for Multiballs...I have no idea what means what or what advantages any choices give me. I got to Winter is Coming and Hand of the King...so, whatever lol

Right...every game I love has non-linear modes...don't bring that horror garbage game into this conversation.

GOT's rules are math/chess. Your brain loves that. Mine doesn't. Also, I'm playing on location...I don't think it's as easy to learn GOT on location vs. playing at home. Due to the hideous art package, horrible DMD video clips, and lack of any interesting mechanical features, I will never buy GOT for home.

LOL....I was referring to the experience of the game. The film is fantastic.

Phenomenal, deep, non-linear game without ghosting inserts or cabinet splitting....why wouldn't I buy it?

Right, I'm not playing pinball lol. ....it's exciting every time I hit start.

One of the greatest...that's why it's such a shame the game turned out the way it did, and the theme blinds you to it's problems. I guarantee that same exact design, toys, and rules with another theme (Ghostbusters'16 for example) - your opinion would be very different.

Thankfully, I have freed myself from the concept of "dream themes" ...it's a concept I will never allow myself to get passionate about again, as I am no longer ever buying NIB pins again. Good luck!

They're not the same thing?

(JOKING)

There was one for sale locally and I contemplated biting on it....buuuuut, I don't really like the upper playfield at all on GOT - so, I like the look of the LE better than the other 2, but prefer the gameplay of the Pro.

I think it has the potential to be Ritchie's best game since AC/DC (that's my favorite of his current-ish Sterns)...but we won't know till we can play it or get a sense of what the rules are gonna be like!

Subjective opinion from a flow-only player bias. It's extremely fun and satisfying for those who like a cinematic quest style game.

Well I've done that! I guess I do get it! Eskaybee made it sound so confusing when he explained it!

Unlikely. It was one of their top sellers so there are already a ton out there. It was a Whitestar game, they're. It going to mass produce Whitestar boards at this point. It would be a stellar "remaster" candidate - the game would be even more amazing with modern sound quality and real animation on a color LCD - but I don't see it happening.

What's to understand? They want it to be finished lol.

Wishlists are subjective, but missing features and bugs are legitimate things to want in a game and hopefully easy to understand.

Look at the LCD book. It always tells you what to do in each one.

When I was a kid, everyone loved Ewoks. I had the tree fort (or whatever) playset. They're f'ing space hamsters! How can you hate space hamsters!?!?!?!

No, it won't. It's going to be pretty easy for any new game to at least be a smidge better than the scientifically proven worst game ever made of all time in the history of the universe.

Yup, it's pretty boring. I think people were mostly excited that it looked nice & actually played like a real pinball machine vs. the garbage dumpster GB...but, it's a pretty mediocre experience. Jackie is a cool gimmick, but it got old fast. There's nothing really satisfying about any of the goals or shots. Not a fan of the band, so I'm sure really digging them takes it up a notch.

It plays very similar. Just has a casual disjointed feeling about it. It's just "a game" with "music playing" and each song has different shots that light up in different colors. I like the music better in Kiss, but I hate the Gene-head toy...it's just a whole lot of nothing. At least Aero has Jackie...buuuut, I don't like the music as much. Eh, it's a wash....both are just very mediocre when we've got AC/DC and Metallica in existence, showing how you really KILL IT with a music pin.

Toys are meaningless when the playfield is designed horribly...nothing "cool" or "unique" about that fun-sapping vomit layout. Then sprinkle some linear/boring gameplay on top of that - you have the game that destroyed pinball. But hey, if the booger-on-a-string and a hologram that does nothing does it for you as "interactive toys", enjoy.

Side anecdote - I was buying an arcade game from a garage sale this weekend and we started talking about pinball (he had a Gorgar in the garage)...the guy mentioned playing some new games on location - he brought up Ghostbusters and instantly started talking about how shitty it was...it was just drain drain drain and he couldn't understand how a new game played like that. I didn't even lead him into that....he brought it up, and I just nodded and agreed lol

All Spike games have been capable of this.

Then don't buy a new Stern, for crying out loud!!!

As for the Jack Donger video, no one cares what I think since I'm not a SW fan and was never going to buy it no matter what - but watching the gameplay cemented my opinion on Dwight's style of "math chess" rules....I just don't like it, especially combined with Steve's fast gameplay & lack of features. It's just convoluted and unintuitive, and lacks those pavlovian moments of satisfaction. Like GOT, I hate the "pass" and "start 2 modes at once" concept. I think of mode stacking in a game like TSPP - it's just more fun/satisfying to start the mode, then hit the shot that re-lights the mode shot, then hitting that again to get another mode stacked. Starting 2 at once just doesn't feel right...it doesn't feel "pinball". Aurich got a slot machine vibe - me too...not just from the animation, but from all the on-screen logic...just feels like gibberish, and detracts from the feel of the theme and the feel of pinball.

I just think of other Ritchie games like Spider-Man & AC/DC and how the rules are deep once you get to know them...but up front are newb friendly and satisfying. On Spidey, just hitting the Venom ramp and getting that Venom sound effect/scream - FEELS good...hitting Sandman or Doc Ock and getting their FX/callouts - FEELS good. AC/DC, you don't have to know anything about the depth, but the bell FEELS good and the cannon FEELS good. Once you figure out the depth later, it makes an already satisfying visceral experience even more rewarding. I feel like with games like GOT and now SW - you have to know so much going in or have the ability to make sense of all the gibberish onscreen quickly, otherwise it's just a combination of confusing rules & lack of satisfying moments.

Anyway - obviously other people are going to love this ruleset...SKB is totally down with math-chess rules. GOT fans should love it....but, it's definitely polarizing. The uber-cerebral players will probably love it, the players who want something more visual/tangible will probably walk away.

Don't get me wrong, I love stacking...but I don't like the choice to "pass"....just something inherently unsatisfying about it.

At least in GOT it kinda thematically made sense as the house modes weren't super story-driven...I can kinda buy "fighting 2 houses at once" ...but in SW, it seems weird to start 2 movie-specfic story modes simultaneously.

Hmmm...well, just chalk up one more for GOT's concept being confusing. I thought when you pick a house - YOU are that house...and you're battling the other houses to take the throne. So - to me, it makes sense that the modes are your house vs. theirs.

Let's never speak of that atrocity again lol

...not liking the "pass" thing doesn't mean I want linearity.

Of course we're playing a pinball machine...and it's hard to explain why these newer games aren't working for me vs. older movie based games...but there's something about the "older" games like LOTR, Spidey, Tron, IM, etc...that work well for the license and are satisfying on all fronts. The feel is satisfying, the rules are satisfying, the casual factor and depth factor both work. I'm not feeling that from some of these newer ones.

Hmmm....well, I'll take your word for it. GOT is weirder than I thought, then lol

Mode stacking doesn't cause someone to finish sooner. Draining does. One mode or multiple modes doesn't change the physical nature of the game.

I was tempted to make a Pulp Fiction meme "Say table one more time!!!"

I dislike this approach on those games too. I'm not sure how to explain it - there's just something unsatisfying about making a shot and then pausing to choose a non-event. I prefer the stacking risks like AC/DC - I know I can hit the ramp to start a Multiball - but I can wait, and hit the targets or orbits to qualify the other multiballs - then hit the ramp to start 2 or 3 at once. In AC/DC you "chose to pass" by continuing to play differently. Then when you hit the MB ramp - BOOM the MB sequence starts instantly as a reaction to your shot - very satisfying. Compared to Aerosmith - if you want to start the MB, you have to wait for a countdown first. I guess I just like an instant response to a shot vs. a choice menu.

I'll play it on location, and I like the code - but for home use I don't like the theme or toys, so it's a no-go. The most recent Stern I have is Metallica - and it will probably remain that way until the next Lyman "cornerstone" game. (I refuse to participate in the Super LE overpriced forced-rarity scam).

I like the art on the Pro & LE. I think it's visually a very nice package. But yeah, I just don't like that the Well Walker doesn't really do anything. Would have been nice if he had a coil that struck & flipped him back on the final hit...especially on the Prem/LE since he has the extra guts attached that you never see. Also I don't like that the Prison is a "wall bash toy" and when the door opens, the giant head inside is another wall. Would have been cooler as a ball release (like zombies rushing out of the prison).

He works with Cointaker, helps them setup games for customers. Might be a customer's game?

-Those games don't have tons of linear modes to get through. The goals are simple, addictive, fun. BSD & Dr. Who's content & design work in tandem.

-They also have totally different geometry, and that geometry works just fine with those flipper gaps.

-Dr. Who and BSD's "gaps" are due to lightning flippers. Don't like it? Put regular flippers on it. GB should have been designed with regular flippers, and if people thought it was too easy, change to lightning.

-GB's gap is wider than any lightning gap or previous Trudeau gap. Trusted sources have told me it was a MISTAKE but too late to change.

-Dr. Who and BSD don't have constant airball-death, pop drips STDM, or cheap outlane hop deaths.

GB's problem is that it's CHEAP. Not that it's hard.

LOL, bro, don't compare ANY modern game to old games. Totally different in every possible way....especially rules and content. Simple games with simple rules WORK WELL with short ball time drainy playouts. GB's problem isn't that it kills you for missing shots, it kills you for HITTING SHOTS with gaddamn airballs. It kills you when the ball comes out of the pops and goes STDM. It kills you when the ball's coming back on the right orbit & ricochets, sending its path STDM. It kills you when the scoop shoots it STDM (if the op hasn't fixed it).

I can't believe people are still going to bat for this horrible, hobby-killing, fun-sucking garbage dumpster of a vomit box. It's fascinating how tastes in this hobby have changed over the past few years. A game of this terribleness would have never been accepted just a few years back. Theme and art can blind. They almost got me...but I saw the real horrors within!!!!

They have no reason to change until people stop throwing money at them.

You know what to do.

If you end up liking the game (either upon launch or after code updates), THEN buy it. There might be LE's still available - but if not, the Premium is the same exact game. I mean, even going back to AC/DC - I didn't really like it upon launch, so I didn't get it....then after a few updates, I really loved it. LE's were gone, so I bought a Premium - zero regrets.

BSD and DW aren't story-mode based games. GB is. Simple as that. Those games work for what they are. GB doesn't work for what it is. I don't think one story-mode based game has been as linear as GB since Road Show...and I love Road Show due to the design and overall fun of the machine...but most people's complaints about it are due to the linear rules.

OK. But none of it is fun since the game is unplayable. So...there's that....and if I do have a "good game" where I haven't airballed or STDM'd to death, the content that exists isn't fun, and I have to do it in order every single time. Sure, 3 ladders, but still ladders. I hate the ladders.

I've never had a problem with Metallica's outlanes.

I don't really care about the game, so I had no reason to bitch. I've played it plenty on location and that never happened.

Ball constantly exists on the left from the pops and heads straight down. Unsaveable because of the gap. I've seen it happen on the right side, not from the pops, but from a left orbit shot...the ball sometimes ricochets by the one-way gate, and then goes in a perfect arc down the middle.

All the things in combination kill the game. I've heard the "well on location it sucks but you can fix it" a million times. Bottom line is, the 20-something GB's I've played on location all suck...so, it sucks by design. AND I don't like the rules...I wasn't going to spend thousands to buy a game I don't like only to attempt to fix what sucks about it, and still not like it.

What? He never compared the game to Gorgar. I said he OWNED a Gorgar. That has nothing to do with his experience on GB.

Same here, Frax. So many people post negative opinions about GB, but people like you love to laser focus on me...as though I'm the only one who has an issue with it. PLENTY of people hate the game and are vocal about it. Right above this post, Guinesstime said he hated it. It's a polarizing game. Dwight's rules & Ritchie's design for GOT were polarizing. They're going to be polarizing on SW. It's not a "me" thing...some will like it, some will hate it.

Put me in your ignore file if you can't handle me disliking a horrible game

I can't believe I'm still explaining this - I like difficulty too. I don't like repetition and all the fun GB-themed content basically being blocked by linear progression. Difficulty comes from the physical nature of a pinball machine, not the order of modes. You can set up an AC/DC to be brutally diffucult...but you can play different songs in any order every time you play. See the difference?

I'm here to support you in being smarter!

It's just a plaque. It doesn't actually do anything. I have a Met LE next to my AC/DC Prem. Doesn't bother me. The game is the game. Had I missed out on Met LE, I'd have happily bought a Prem instead.

It's not Steve's game, and the cliche use of his slogan is irrelevant since GB's design makes skill irrelevant. JT needs to design better.

Wrong. You can play the multiballs in any order. You can play the modes in any order. Some things, like mini-wiz modes, OF COURSE you should have to do something special to see them....but not regular game mode content. LOTR would be like GB if you had to play the Multiballs in order or the Ring Modes in the same order.

No, I want games based on STORY CONTENT to not LOCK AWAY the content due to LINEARITY. Pinball allows you to enjoy all the various bits of story from a license...non-linearity allows you to play a single game and enjoy different content almost every time. GB doesn't allow this. LOTR does.

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Also, Star Wars something something.....