Star Wars (LE)
Stern, 2017
Star Wars (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Star Wars (Pro)
Stern, 2017Quoted from chuckwurt:They are completely story driven. They are a battle that each house experienced. You're not battling those houses, your just experiencing that battle.
GoT is not even remotely story driven in my opinion, but maybe we think of 'story' differently. It has rules that utilize the world of the theme, and it integrates well, but it's not at all narrative-driven play.
Quoted from chuckwurt:They are completely story driven. They are a battle that each house experienced. You're not battling those houses, your just experiencing that battle.
Hmmm...well, just chalk up one more for GOT's concept being confusing. I thought when you pick a house - YOU are that house...and you're battling the other houses to take the throne. So - to me, it makes sense that the modes are your house vs. theirs.
Quoted from Aurich:GoT is not even remotely story driven in my opinion, but maybe we think of 'story' differently. It has rules that utilize the world of the theme, and it integrates well, but it's not at all narrative-driven play.
Yep. I don't think of it being a narrative, but the modes certainly are part of the GOT story as in they happened in the show and probably the books. Haha
Quoted from Rarehero:Hmmm...well, just chalk up one more for GOT's concept being confusing. I thought when you pick a house - YOU are that house...and you're battling the other houses to take the throne. So - to me, it makes sense that the modes are your house vs. theirs.
targaryean is the only house you battle. That's why you can't pick them. Wouldn't make sense to pick Martell then battle Martell.
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah it doesn't seem that weird to me because the movies aren't actually happening, I'm playing a pinball machine.
Again, if you had to play them all in order you'd be here flipping your wig because it would be just like GB
Let's never speak of that atrocity again lol
...not liking the "pass" thing doesn't mean I want linearity.
Of course we're playing a pinball machine...and it's hard to explain why these newer games aren't working for me vs. older movie based games...but there's something about the "older" games like LOTR, Spidey, Tron, IM, etc...that work well for the license and are satisfying on all fronts. The feel is satisfying, the rules are satisfying, the casual factor and depth factor both work. I'm not feeling that from some of these newer ones.
Quoted from chuckwurt:targaryean is the only house you battle. That's why you can't pick them. Wouldn't make sense to pick Martell then battle Martell.
Hmmm....well, I'll take your word for it. GOT is weirder than I thought, then lol
Quoted from Rarehero:Let's never speak of that atrocity again lol
...but there's something about the "older" games like LOTR, Spidey, Tron, IM, etc...that work well for the license and are satisfying on all fronts.
Don't make promises you can't keep sir! 
Yep could signal the change in games for awHile or just blip. Funny cause besides Tron I don't care much for those games.
Quoted from Rarehero:...but in SW, it seems weird to start 2 movie-specfic story modes simultaneously.
Weird... yes, but whatever it takes to speed up the game and rules for the person ahead of me so I can get to play next. By having the ability to stack modes creates a sense of urgency and speeds the game along faster. I keep wondering if the rules are designed for an individual to play or more for a competitive group of individuals to play.
Quoted from PaulCoff:Weird... yes, but whatever it takes to speed up the game and rules for the person ahead of me so I can get to play next. By having the ability to stack modes creates a sense of urgency and speeds the game along faster. I keep wondering if the rules are designed for an individual to play or more for a competitive group of individuals to play.
Mode stacking doesn't cause someone to finish sooner. Draining does. One mode or multiple modes doesn't change the physical nature of the game.
Quoted from Pimp77:What are the new EZ slide rails like D?
Those are only on the premium/le if I remember correctly.
Quoted from cooked71:on the pricing argument, I really question the notion that Stern are overpricing NIB games. How many competitors have been able to enter the market and successfully undercut them? Recent history is littered with companies who thought they could do it better and cheaper, but have failed. Chinese production aside, you might be able to do it better, but definitely not cheaper. NIB pricing is the way it is because that's what it costs to produce AND make a profit from an incredibly niche product that is very complicated to build, and is by definition still mostly "analogue" in nature.
You can argue that at current prices you can't justify or afford NIB games, but you can't argue Stern's mission is to fleece the market. I'm sure their mission is to be a profitable and sustainable pinball manufacturer. The 2 "competitors" have a long way to go to prove they are either profitable or sustainable.
Agreed!
Profits = the business goes on and grows, new pinball machines keep getting designed and built, new people buy their first machine, and pinball playing increases around the world
Losses = the business goes under, hundreds of people lose their jobs, Stern stops making new machines, and pinball playing takes a dive around the world.
I would rather the Stern profits scenario, because that's good for pinball overall. Having other competitors around is also good as that helps to keep Stern honest and tight with pricing.
Anyone out there think Stern is making super or unreasonable profits? If they were printing money dozens of other manufacturers would be popping up to also make easy money, just like in most other business ventures. The fact is, however, it's not easy making money out of pinball. So long as someone is making some money, and expanding, pinball has a future.
Quoted from musketd:Getting ready to crack it open fellas
Couple of fellow pinsiders coming over too
What version software is it shipping with?
Quoted from Dr-Willy:Those are only on the premium/le if I remember correctly.
Ah...didn't know that. Thanks.
Quoted from Rarehero:Then don't buy a new Stern, for crying out loud!!!
As for the Jack Donger video, no one cares what I think since I'm not a SW fan and was never going to buy it no matter what - but watching the gameplay cemented my opinion on Dwight's style of "math chess" rules....I just don't like it, especially combined with Steve's fast gameplay & lack of features. It's just convoluted and unintuitive, and lacks those pavlovian moments of satisfaction. Like GOT, I hate the "pass" and "start 2 modes at once" concept. I think of mode stacking in a game like TSPP - it's just more fun/satisfying to start the mode, then hit the shot that re-lights the mode shot, then hitting that again to get another mode stacked. Starting 2 at once just doesn't feel right...it doesn't feel "pinball". Aurich got a slot machine vibe - me too...not just from the animation, but from all the on-screen logic...just feels like gibberish, and detracts from the feel of the theme and the feel of pinball.
I just think of other Ritchie games like Spider-Man & AC/DC and how the rules are deep once you get to know them...but up front are newb friendly and satisfying. On Spidey, just hitting the Venom ramp and getting that Venom sound effect/scream - FEELS good...hitting Sandman or Doc Ock and getting their FX/callouts - FEELS good. AC/DC, you don't have to know anything about the depth, but the bell FEELS good and the cannon FEELS good. Once you figure out the depth later, it makes an already satisfying visceral experience even more rewarding. I feel like with games like GOT and now SW - you have to know so much going in or have the ability to make sense of all the gibberish onscreen quickly, otherwise it's just a combination of confusing rules & lack of satisfying moments.
Anyway - obviously other people are going to love this ruleset...SKB is totally down with math-chess rules. GOT fans should love it....but, it's definitely polarizing. The uber-cerebral players will probably love it, the players who want something more visual/tangible will probably walk away.
I agree completely. For example I made it halfway thru your long winded, convoluted post and walked away. 
Quoted from chuckwurt:I guess I should've clarified. Are you speaking of bonus or shot multipliers?
I was talking about the shot multipliers. Keith blew up the hyperspace hurry up for 1.3 billion at one point which I hope doesn't become something common with this game. Like where you just keep the X locked on the hyperspace lane and shoot it when it's lit for 40 million x40, or something close to that. With multiballs a plenty it seemed common (easy?) for a few of the players to keep the multiplier at high levels. He was also killing it on Escape From Boba Fett for almost a billion the last time he got it.
Rob
Quoted from Rob_G:I was talking about the shot multipliers. Keith blew up the hyperspace hurry up for 1.3 billion at one point which I hope doesn't become something common with this game. Like where you just keep the X locked on the hyperspace lane and shoot it when it's lit for 40 million x40, or something close to that. With multiballs a plenty it seemed common (easy?) for a few of the players to keep the multiplier at high levels. He was also killing it on Escape From Boba Fett for almost a billion the last time he got it.
Rob
One of the best things about keith being there is you can almost guarantee there will be no broken scoring on any stern in the future. He definitely seems like the type of guy to figure that stuff out quickly and have the coder snuff it out.
I mean if stern really wants these stern only tournaments to take off, the games have to be tournament play viable.
I'm not worried at all.
Quoted from chuckwurt:One of the best things about keith being there is you can almost guarantee there will be no broken scoring on any stern in the future. He definitely seems like the type of guy to figure that stuff out quickly and have the coder snuff it out.
I mean if stern really wants these stern only tournaments to take off, the games have to be tournament play viable.
I agree! Let him blow up the game and Dwight can update the code accordingly. As long as Stern gives him time to do that.
Rob
Quoted from Rob_G:I agree! Let him blow up the game and Dwight can update the code accordingly. As long as Stern gives him time to do that.
Rob
I hit a 4 bil HOTK hurry up the other day. Doesn't make it broken, gives the game risk/reward. Don't know why so many ppl want linear scoring story driven games. Why can't we have both? Breadth people! Beating games and kickin ass is what it's about.
EDIT: keep in mind Keith has been playing and learning the game for months. Did you notice Dwight kept playing Han Solo and going for the boba fet hurry ups but couldn't blow it up? Risk/reward people!
Quoted from Pimp77:What are the new EZ slide rails like D?
You'd have to ask Erica. She unboxed it while he was taking the pictures. 
Quoted from Eskaybee:I hit a 4 bil HOTK hurry up the other day. Doesn't t make it broken, gives the game risk/reward. Don't know why so many ppl want linear scoring story driven games. Why can't we have both? Breadth people! Beating games and kickin ass is what it's about.
But what about getting 2 billion per shot in stark bonus rounds? That's the kind of stuff I think needs fixing. I think Robs talking about that stuff too.
+10k will be built, and just like the auto industry, when they are built they are sold on the books.
light that sucker up and let's see some pics! The one thing the stream was missing last night was external shots of the game lit up...
I know one thing, we have collectively become one spoiled group of hobbyists. 
When you can pick apart an exciting new pin like SW, and I'm not saying its a huge deal its just part of the hobby, we have multiple great options of pins to choose from, I'd say we are MUCH MUCH better off than we were 7-10 years ago when pinball was going down the toilet.
Even Dialed In, I hate the theme but so what, it looks like a fun unique pin. Brought Lawlor back from the pinball graveyard. That's a great thing.
Does it cost a lot more today? Sure. I don't want to go back to the lean days, let em survive and thrive.
Take a moment to let these games put a smile on your face. I know they do mine.
Quoted from chuckwurt:But what about getting 2 billion per shot in stark bonus rounds? That's the kind of stuff I think needs fixing. I think Robs talking about that stuff too.
Gotcha. For sure.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I hit a 4 bil HOTK hurry up the other day. Doesn't make it broken, gives the game risk/reward. Don't know why so many ppl want linear scoring story driven games. Why can't we have both? Breadth people! Beating games and kickin ass is what it's about.
EDIT: keep in mind Keith has been playing and learning the game for months. Did you notice Dwight kept playing Han Solo and going for the boba fet hurry ups but couldn't blow it up? Risk/reward people!
No shit! For great players like myself and Elwin we need variety, all forms of great pinball. 
Quoted from Who-Dey:Congrats Musketd, check back in later and give us a full report!
"Greatest game ever" will be said soon by him.
My only concern is that the game plays too easy, some of those ball times were loooong on the stream, yes I know some were pro players but some were not! Might need to open the lanes up on this one
Quoted from Aurich:GoT is not even remotely story driven in my opinion, but maybe we think of 'story' differently. It has rules that utilize the world of the theme, and it integrates well, but it's not at all narrative-driven play.
I'm just gonna place this right here regarding GOT (copy + paste from another thread):
- Houses battling for right to rule the seven kingdoms
- becoming the hand of the king and different ways to achieve it, brilliance!
- winter is coming and winter has come is amazing integration of just winter chills. Perfect for the white walker plot line.
- the hounds call outs are top level for pinball.
- the sound of the horns and battling in wall multiball. Not to mention the wall + winter super stack where it becomes complete pandemonium in winter effects as you're battling at the wall. Great theme integration!
- building the Targaryan modes is epic, and that dragon getting bigger, badder, and more epic with a dramatic feel as you progress. Fits the dragons story line perfect
- and then finally, you get the iron throne and go on a little mini journey through the seven kingdoms. Feels totally different than the rest of the game.
Just shoving call outs of the show into the game would not work for this pin; it was integrated perfect...this coming from a big fan of the show.
Quoted from musketd:More pics
Did they take away the pegs now also? Or is it a totally different system?
Quoted from Aurich:It's pretty obvious this game isn't a LOTR-style adventure, where you 'play the movies', it's just using Star Wars as window dressing for the kind of rules Dwight wanted to do. I think lots of people will enjoy it, seems like that style lends itself well to home replay value, and on location people probably won't care.
But yeah, it's not my preferred style either. I sold my Star Trek after the latest rules were updated, I don't care for the way the rules on GB work, and GoT has never excited me, maybe I just don't dig the same stuff Dwight does. Or maybe we just haven't found a middle ground yet and a future game from him will be the one.
It would take a more interesting playfield, that's for sure.
Aurich, I'm saying this cause you're a fan of Star Wars. You're not seeing the big picture. What stern delivered is a game for any home owner to play the way THEY CHOOSE. You say you don't like the rules of multipliers and that picking two missions makes no sense; but the game is developed to play however you like. You can choose to start on tatooine, then take your chance to battle the Death Star, then escape from Hoth, then have your ewok orgy and face off against Vader in the battle for endor. All while dodging Boba Fett, fighting tie fighters, playing millineum falcon multiballs, increasing your Jedi mastery (just like Luke in the movies!), and having light saber duels! Dude, as a fan of the trilogy, how can you not be excited for having an SW pinball where YOU choose how you want to play it. That's why people like me are getting a boner over this game. Not just because there's 40X jackpots to be had, not just cause there's 5 wizard modes, not just cause you can stack two missions and multiple hurry ups, not just cause there's 12 multiballs, not just cause you can pick one of 4 heroes and picking what diplomatic power up you're going to utilize each ball, but because you can play it SO MANY ways including your preferred story mode fashion and try to conquer the game in a more linear fashion - i.e. Play a new hope, empire strikes back, return of the Jedi in that order. The world under the glass is endless...that's what's so special with this pin especially since it is Star Wars.
Take that for what you will, but there's a bigger picture here besides multipliers and huge jackpots.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Aurich, I'm saying this cause you're a fan of Star Wars. You're not seeing the big picture. What stern delivered is a game for any home owner to play the way THEY CHOOSE. You say you don't like the rules of multipliers and that picking two missions makes no sense; but the game is developed to play however you like. You can choose to start on tatooine, then take your chance to battle the Death Star, then escape from Hoth, then have your ewok orgy and face off against Vader in the battle for endor. All while dodging Boba Fett, fighting tie fighters, playing millineum falcon multiballs, increasing your Jedi mastery (just like Luke in the movies!), and having light saber duels! Dude, as a fan of the trilogy, how can you not be excited for having an SW pinball where YOU choose how you want to play it. That's why people like me are getting a boner over this game. Not just because there's 40X jackpots to be had, not just cause there's 5 wizard modes, not just cause you can stack two missions and multiple hurry ups, not just cause there's 12 multiballs, not just cause you can pick one of 4 heroes and picking what diplomatic power up you're going to utilize each ball, but because you can play it SO MANY ways including your preferred story mode fashion and try to conquer the game in a more linear fashion - i.e. Play a new hope, empire strikes back, return of the Jedi in that order. The world under the glass is endless...that's what's so special with this pin especially since it is Star Wars.
Take that for what you will, but there's a bigger picture here besides multipliers and huge jackpots.
Two great open world Star Wars platforms available this year.. SW Pinball and Battlefront II. Could be the best year since '77.
Wrote a massive rant But deleted it. Short version... massively disappointed. I was REALLY looking forward to Stern bringing their A-Game to a Star Wars title. After the reveal, and seeing the game play demo yesterday, not only do I not want to buy this table, I have no interest in even playing it. In my opinion, possibly the worst table they have ever designed.
Hope they make a profit and keep making products, hope people who like this table enjoy themselves, but the direction they are moving with design decisions is clearly not for me. I might need to wait out the current trend before I get to enjoy a new table again. Until then I'll go back to enjoying older titles.
Quoted from bigd1979:Did they take away the pegs now also? Or is it a totally different system?
Pegs are there. Out of shot.
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:The one thing I took away from this stream is that I love Dwight. Man, he loves what he does and he gets so excited....."F@#k.... can I say f@#k?"
I know, I wish he had more time to add to games like GOT prem and GB. I think some of us are spoiled that Lyman worked on code in his spare time, ala TWD, MET & ACDC. 
Quoted from scarybeard:Wrote a massive rant But deleted it. Short version... massively disappointed. I was REALLY looking forward to Stern bringing their A-Game to a Star Wars title. After the reveal, and seeing the game play demo yesterday, not only do I not want to buy this table, I have no interest in even playing it. In my opinion, possibly the worst table they have ever designed.
Hope they make a profit and keep making products, hope people who like this table enjoy themselves, but the direction they are moving with design decisions is clearly not for me. I might need to wait out the current trend before I get to enjoy a new table again. Until then I'll go back to enjoying older titles.
I wouldn't say worst game ever. You may be disappointed, and I understand that. I'm kinda disappointed myself and honestly considering to pass on this one. I need to see the Le in action first though. The pro video didn't wow me like I was hoping. Not sure how I feel yet, but it's definitely not the worst game ever.
Quoted from scarybeard:Wrote a massive rant But deleted it. Short version... massively disappointed. I was REALLY looking forward to Stern bringing their A-Game to a Star Wars title. After the reveal, and seeing the game play demo yesterday, not only do I not want to buy this table, I have no interest in even playing it. In my opinion, possibly the worst table they have ever designed.
Hope they make a profit and keep making products, hope people who like this table enjoy themselves, but the direction they are moving with design decisions is clearly not for me. I might need to wait out the current trend before I get to enjoy a new table again. Until then I'll go back to enjoying older titles.
Fair enough. Based on your collection, this game might have been too fast for you...with no cheap drains.
Quoted from hawkmoon:Why can't you tell us what code your SW pin has in it now???
I'll take a wild guess... Because somebody had to replace the drama of waiting for the gameplay video with some drama of waiting for something else?
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-announces-star-wars-pinball/page/98 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Torrance, CA
Sydney
Regina, SK
Christchurch